Mean Girls (2004): Stop trying to make “fetch” happen!

[Spartan Girl]

I saw the national tour of Mean Girls the musical yesterday, and I think it’s high time the movie had its own thread. Certainly one of those movies that is endlessly quotable from “Stop trying to make ‘fetch’ happen!” to “It’s October 3rd.” and “Get in, loser, we’re going shopping!” And of course the ever meme-able “So you agree? You think you’re really pretty?”

It must be sad that there are certain stereotypes and tropes that haven’t aged well; the musical at least tries to remedy that. Despite all that, the themes of high school girl culture and how popularity corrupts remains true to this day.

I have more thoughts, but first let’s hear from the rest of you!

[WritinMan]

I love Mean Girls. But I am also an unabashed Tina Fey fan boy. It's funny--just a nice movie, really. And it is very quotable. I like to use "fetch" every now and then to see who gets it.

It's on a short list of movies that people are surprised to learn that I really like.

[BetterButter]

 

[Sarah 103]

I love the movie. I think it is a modern classic and an iconic team movie. I understand that the movie needed to be rated PG-13. I know that the MPA gives a harsher rating to same-sex kissing/sexual situations. That being said, it always bothered me that Damien is gay, but we never see or hear any evidence of a love-life. I would have been satisfied with a mention of a recent break-up, a boyfriend at another school, a crush, or something similar. 

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I love the movie. I think it is a modern classic and an iconic team movie. I understand that the movie needed to be rated PG-13. I know that the MPA gives a harsher rating to same-sex kissing/sexual situations. That being said, it always bothered me that Damien is gay, but we never see or hear any evidence of a love-life. I would have been satisfied with a mention of a recent break-up, a boyfriend at another school, a crush, or something similar. 

Yeah, they could have done a lot more for Damien then just filling the Gay Best Friend Trope.

On that note, I might be in the minority but I don’t think it was only okay when Janis called Damien “too gay to function.” I know we tend to let things our friends say slide, but my rule: don’t call friends anything you wouldn’t like other people calling them. Of course I might be biased because I’ve come to dislike Janis in general.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Brn2bwild]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah, they could have done a lot more for Damien then just filling the Gay Best Friend Trope.

On that note, I might be in the minority but I don’t think it was only okay when Janis called Damien “too gay to function.” I know we tend to let things our friends say slide, but my rule: don’t call friends anything you wouldn’t like other people calling them. Of course I might be biased because I’ve come to dislike Janis in general.

Janis reminds me of someone I knew in high school.  She was funny and caustic, and I wanted to be friends with her because she wasn't part of the popular group and we liked some of the same things.  But she was so defended and could be nasty and rude that I never felt like we were ever true friends, because part of me was always afraid of landing on her bad side.  Which shouldn't be the case with real friends.  

[Spartan Girl]

Not to absolve Cady of anything she did, but Janis was far from a good friend to her. From the beginning, she and Damien took advantage of Cary’s sheltered outlook (from being homeschooled) and got her to spy on the Plastics even when she didn’t really want to. And then Janis waited until Cady hated Regina just as much as she did and used her anger for her own agenda to get back at Regina. Yet Janis is never really held accountable for any of it. The narrative places the blame solely on Cady, who at least takes responsibility for her actions? Janis, not so much.

Just like being popular doesn’t automatically make you a good person, being the outsider doesn’t necessarily make you a good one either.

[Ms Blue Jay]

One of my favourites, I've seen it so many times.

The movie is problematic for many reasons, lol.  What about how they keep referring to Cady's homeplace as "Africa".  The entire continent.  

[Hiyo]

Quote

What about how they keep referring to Cady's homeplace as "Africa".  The entire continent.  

Not surprising, I know lots of Americans who think the only language people speak in Africa is Swahili. And some of them are Black Americans...

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Not surprising, I know lots of Americans who think the only language people speak in Africa is Swahili. And some of them are Black Americans...

Cady refers to her homeplace that way I meant.  She is supposed to be from there.  The writers didn't put any thought into where she was from exactly.  I watched it in theatres with a friend who was really annoyed that the movie stereotyped Africa as a place where animals are constantly killing each other.  Again this all comes from the protagonist, Cady.  Africa is an entire continent with different countries, cities, beaches, etc. but Cady just painted it to the audience as one particular way.  It felt like an American child's idea of Africa, not an adult writer writing a movie from the protagonist's POV who is actually from there.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hiyo]

Given how bad the average American knows about geography and other countries and cultures, maybe it was just easier than for her to keep having to exposition to everyone she met where she living in Africa...then again, I got the feeling her parents were country hopping while they were there and not exclusively staying in one country.

I mean, that's my fanwank...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

One of my favourites, I've seen it so many times.

The movie is problematic for many reasons, lol.  What about how they keep referring to Cady's homeplace as "Africa".  The entire continent.  

Though it does give us the immortal line, "Oh my God, Karen, you can't just ask someone why they're white!"

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Though it does give us the immortal line, "Oh my God, Karen, you can't just ask someone why they're white!"

Yes! lol

Mean Girls was fun. No, the lines weren't perfect. The characters weren't perfect. But it was a comedy based around the lives of high school girls, so I do cut it slack. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Tina Fey certainly gets cut a lot of slack for being 34 when Mean Girls was released.  It's not the only time she's been ignorant and used racial stereotypes in her writing, either.  And racial stereotypes have proven to dehumanize and cause actual harm to those people that are depicted. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Cobalt Stargazer]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Tina Fey certainly gets cut a lot of slack for being 34 when Mean Girls was released. 

Amanda Seyfried, who delivered the line about Africa, was eighteen at the time, certainly old enough to know better. Or are we only condemning the writer right now?

[Ms Blue Jay]

The way the movie depicted Africa is ignorant, like I already said upthread.  Cady, the main character, spoke about Africa as if it was a monolithic place even though she was supposed to be from there.  No idea what this tangent is about the actors.  Karen is supposed to be an ignorant American teenager, her character was written extremely realistically, which is why her line got a laugh.

Picture a movie, a character arrives at an American high school and says "Hi!  I'm from Europe."  No mention of the country, the culture, the language, anything.  Just, Europe.  Then throughout the movie, the main character vaguely refers to her life in Europe and shows depictions of supposedly stereotypically European life.  That's not weird to you?

I can tell that the fans of this movie are very passionate about defending it.  I myself said that I was a big fan.  It's one of my favourites.  But, when I am a fan of something I am also okay with getting a little deeper and criticizing it.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

37 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The way the movie depicted Africa is ignorant, like I already said upthread.  Cady, the main character, spoke about Africa as if it was a monolithic place even though she was supposed to be from there.  No idea what this tangent is about the actors.  Karen is supposed to be an ignorant American teenager, her character was written extremely realistically, which is why her line got a laugh.

Picture a movie, a character arrives at an American high school and says "Hi!  I'm from Europe."  No mention of the country, the culture, the language, anything.  Just, Europe.  Then throughout the movie, the main character vaguely refers to her life in Europe and shows depictions of supposedly stereotypically European life.  That's not weird to you?

I can tell that the fans of this movie are very passionate about defending it.  I myself said that I was a big fan.  It's one of my favourites.  But, when I am a fan of something I am also okay with getting a little deeper and criticizing it.

I know people who will say they're from Europe. They tend to do it if it's a smaller country they might assume the average American doesn't know, or if they've lived in different countries. But you're right it would be strange to just continue to go with European. 

I understand. There are movies I love with problematic scenes or cringey writing or whatever. 

8 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Given how bad the average American knows about geography and other countries and cultures, maybe it was just easier than for her to keep having to exposition to everyone she met where she living in Africa...then again, I got the feeling her parents were country hopping while they were there and not exclusively staying in one country.

I mean, that's my fanwank...

True. If Cady's family traveled throughout Africa, the writing would make more sense. That was my impression as well, but I need to rewatch it. I think all of you are making good points. 

 

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Amanda Seyfried, who delivered the line about Africa, was eighteen at the time, certainly old enough to know better. Or are we only condemning the writer right now?

Actors read lines from the script the writer and director give them. They can't really be blamed for the lines. But in this case, the line about Africa was supposed to be ignorant. That was the whole point. Other parts of the movie are problematic, but not that line.

I always thought they had Cady say she was from "Africa" because 1) they were worried the audience wouldn't know where she was referring to if she named a specific country, and 2) they didn't want to be accused of stereotyping a specific country or have to worry about fact checking descriptions too closely.

[Sarah 103]

On 3/20/2022 at 11:13 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Cady refers to her homeplace that way I meant.  She is supposed to be from there.  The writers didn't put any thought into where she was from exactly.  I watched it in theatres with a friend who was really annoyed that the movie stereotyped Africa as a place where animals are constantly killing each other.  Again this all comes from the protagonist, Cady.  Africa is an entire continent with different countries, cities, beaches, etc. but Cady just painted it to the audience as one particular way. 

My understanding is that her parents were in Africa studying animals, so she would be spending most of her time with her parents in more remote and rural/less urban areas where her parents could study and observe the animals in thier natural habitat. That is probably what most of her experience of Africa is. If her parents worked for the State Department, they would have been stationed in a more urban part of Africa because they would have been working in a consulate or an embassy. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Other people have written about this stuff online.  https://www.mcgilldaily.com/2021/11/girl-world/

In my opinion, Tina Fey wrote the movie from the perspective of somebody who doesn't know anything about the continent and doesn't want to learn either.  She included Africa as a simple shorthand for somewhere different.  It's just lazy.  

Edited March 21, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hiyo]

Quote

Other people have written about this stuff online.  https://www.mcgilldaily.com/2021/11/girl-world/

As a non-American who grew up overseas, all I can say "Oh lordie, it is not that deep..."

[JustHereForFood]

On 3/21/2022 at 12:53 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Picture a movie, a character arrives at an American high school and says "Hi!  I'm from Europe."  No mention of the country, the culture, the language, anything.  Just, Europe.  Then throughout the movie, the main character vaguely refers to her life in Europe and shows depictions of supposedly stereotypically European life.  That's not weird to you?

Being from Europe, that wouldn't surprise me at all in American movie. And as RealHousewife said, sometimes I even say it as well, to avoid making a geography lesson that nobody cares about, including me.

[BetterButter]

Paramount Releases ‘Mean Girls’ for Free on TikTok in 23 Parts

[BetterButter]

 

[methodwriter85]

I'm really glad it's a musical and not a straightforward remake. It's what they should have done with Heathers. 

[kiddo82]

They did make a Heathers musical.  I think you can stream it on Prime.

Edited November 9, 2023 by kiddo82

[tennisgurl]

I'm sorry, "not your mothers Mean Girls?" "YOUR MOTHER'S!??!"

*descends into Millennial existential crisis* 

[Sarah 103]

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I'm sorry, "not your mothers Mean Girls?" "YOUR MOTHER'S!??!"

*descends into Millennial existential crisis* 

If the lead characters got married had had children right after finishing college, it's possible and the edge of plausible. What this ignores is that women, especially from higher income families (which the lead characters in Mean Girls absolutely are) tend to get married later and start having children later in life.

In terms of real life, none of the Millennials I know have children yet who are teenagers. Most of the Millennials I know do not have children at all. I think this is just an epic marketing tagline fail. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Sarah 103

[Scarlett45]

On 11/10/2023 at 12:03 PM, Sarah 103 said:

In terms of real life, none of the Millennials I know have children yet who are teenagers. Most of the Millennials I know do not have children at all. I think this is just an epic marketing tagline fail. 

Millennial here- I just had my 20yrs HS reunion, out of my class of 46 people, only two have kids in HS now. (Both women got married right after college and started having kids- their eldest are 14/ 15). More people from my class identify as childfree. 

 

On 11/8/2023 at 9:55 AM, BetterButter said:

 

I’m looking forward to this. Mostly for Busy Philips, Angourie Rice, Bebe Wood (loved her in Love, Victor) and Avantika Vandanapu (she is so beautiful and was funny in Senior Year).

[pinkandsparkly13]

Man I hate getting "old". Lol I'm a millennial too, and don't have any kids. But I have a few cousins around my age that do have high school kids. Those kids were all born in 2007(the year I graduated) I don't know what their knowledge of Mean Girls is though.