Season 15: Buh-Bye Rohmbot

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I watched “Tombstone” today and couldn’t remember until Wd was shot, that this was Jesse’s last episode while he was on Broadway performing on Rent.

I had NO LUCK finding Trial by Jury’s “Skeleton” online, but yay! For me! I had credit and was able to buy it for $0.00 on Prime Video! Watching it now.

I may just purchase the series since I ❤️❤️ Bebe Neuwirth. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh yuck! Now I remember why I didn’t care for Trial By Jury. We saw the conversations between the defendant and the defense attorney. And of course in “Skeleton” Deborah Farentino’s character slept with her client. Yuck! 

The convoluted plot made no sense since the murder of Peluso had nothing to do the the murder on this show. And it’s not as if the investigation had to do with Green’s shooting and it was a back door pilot. It was stupid.

[Spartan Girl]

@GHScorpiosRule Love the thread name! 😂

[Prairie Rose]

On 1/25/2022 at 6:06 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh yuck! Now I remember why I didn’t care for Trial By Jury. We saw the conversations between the defendant and the defense attorney. And of course in “Skeleton” Deborah Farentino’s character slept with her client. Yuck! 

The convoluted plot made no sense since the murder of Peluso had nothing to do the the murder on this show. And it’s not as if the investigation had to do with Green’s shooting and it was a back door pilot. It was stupid.

It was a huge disappointment storywise, but at least the plot freed JLM to film Rent. I also feel that this was the season Ed Green really came into his own. Other than Southerlyn's RIDICULOUS final scene, I didn't think there were many weak moments. 

[Xeliou66]

35 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

It was a huge disappointment storywise, but at least the plot freed JLM to film Rent. I also feel that this was the season Ed Green really came into his own. Other than Southerlyn's RIDICULOUS final scene, I didn't think there were many weak moments. 

Season 15 was pretty good, especially considering that they were replacing the beloved, iconic Lennie Briscoe this season, while I’m not a big Fontana fan I did like that they didn’t make him a Lennie clone and that he was a very different character and it shook things up a bit. However the last 4 episodes were hard to get through because the Fontana/Falco pairing was just downright unlikable, both were abrasive pricks - of the Fontana/Falco episodes, I only like In God We Trust because of its strong plot and legal stuff, the other episodes weren’t compelling at all. 

[Prairie Rose]

Just now, Xeliou66 said:

Season 15 was pretty good, especially considering that they were replacing the beloved, iconic Lennie Briscoe this season, while I’m not a big Fontana fan I did like that they didn’t make him a Lennie clone and that he was a very different character and it shook things up a bit. However the last 4 episodes were hard to get through because the Fontana/Falco pairing was just downright unlikable, both were abrasive pricks - of the Fontana/Falco episodes, I only like In God We Trust because of its strong plot and legal stuff, the other episodes weren’t compelling at all. 

I still believe had Jerry Orbach lived and was healthy enough to work, TBJ would have been a success. Dennis Farina may have found more acceptance, even though Fontana was not a Briscoe clone. Having been a real-life cop had to have come in handy!

[Prevailing Wind]

I couldn't stand Falco. I still refuse to watch any of the reruns with him in them.

[Prairie Rose]

4 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I couldn't stand Falco. I still refuse to watch any of the reruns with him in them.

Unfortunately, he comprised most of the weak moments of S15. I don't watch them either, and I'm not fond of his return in S16 where he was the suspect.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[Halting Hex]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

of the Fontana/Falco episodes, I only like In God We Trust

The one I save is "Sport of Kings".  I'm a sucker for Reg Rogers, I admit it.  It had been too long since "Snatched".  (Plus I loved the racing setting, and the anger of the employees about their pension.  We hadn't seen much treatment of the impact of corporate greed on workers since "Working Stiff", way back in the Stone Age.)

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

The one I save is "Sport of Kings".  I'm a sucker for Reg Rogers, I admit it.  It had been too long since "Snatched".  (Plus I loved the racing setting, and the anger of the employees about their pension.  We hadn't seen much treatment of the impact of corporate greed on workers since "Working Stiff", way back in the Stone Age.)

Sport of Kings was rather confusing IMO, hard to keep track of everyone and Fontana/Falco just causes me to zone out. Not a bad episode but hard to follow for me. In God We Trust is the only Fontana/Falco one I like, because of the strong plot and strong legal stuff.

[Xeliou66]

Gunplay was on today - this is one of my favorite season 15 episodes, very intense episode, especially when Green went undercover to get the evidence on the killers, and then when the attorney who leaked the undercover cops identities went off on a rant while cross examining the other undercover cop who helped them. Also interesting in how Van Buren got out in the field, I always liked when she did, and even ME Rodgers was at the crime scene. 
I laughed when Arthur asked about gun dealers surfing the web, and Serena replied “Everybody surfs the web Arthur, everybody but you!” 

[Xeliou66]

Paradigm, Fontana’s first episode, was just on, and I thought Fontana was something of an ass right off the bat - he was pretty disrespectful to Van Buren with his comment about getting transferred in to Amnesty International, and his downplaying of torture was rather disturbing. I thought it was odd how Fontana just introduced himself as “Fontana” and they never said his first name in this episode. I do appreciate that they made Fontana different from Lennie and didn’t try to imitate Lennie’s style, as no one could replace him.

The case was good, and of course Serena and Arthur clashed, they just flat out had disdain for each other much of the time - I understood where both were coming from in this episode but I didn’t like how Serena just wanted to pass the buck to the feds. Jack was the best part of the legal side and his closing argument was great as always, while I understood why the defendant did what she did, as Jack said, killing in the name of god, country or brother is still murder. Revenge killings/vigilante justice must be punished, and vigilantism was one of Jack’s pet peeves. I liked how the DA’s had a press conference with Michael Bloomberg, it was always cool when a real person made a cameo and it made sense for them to have a press conference, and I liked seeing Arthur deal with the press.

[Xeliou66]

I saw Enemy today, this is a good episode, interesting plot with the Afghan warlord/drug dealer, I was glad to see that piece of crap go down, he thought he was above the law because of his power and dealings with the government. It was interesting how the defense claimed the military authorized the defendant’s actions, I bought that the military might turn a blind eye to his drug dealing, as the military has done business with shady characters, but I didn’t buy that the military would authorize the warlord to order the murder of Americans. I didn’t buy the military guy’s testimony that he didn’t know the guy was a drug dealer, but regardless of what the military knew he deserved to be locked up. Not to start a political debate, but I disagreed with Arthur when he acted like the government would never do shady stuff, but regardless of how much the government knew, the defendant was guilty of the ordering the murders. 

I loved Green’s reaction to rich parents of the girl who overdosed when they blamed the Hispanic girl for getting their daughter into drugs, walking off before he lost his temper with them.

Next up was Fixed, the follow up to season 1’s Indifference - Indifference is one the most chilling episodes of L&O, and Fixed was pretty good as well, Lowenstein was exceptionally creepy, and his fiancé was batshit crazy. I loved seeing Cragen make a crossover cameo to discuss the case, Cragen is one of my favorites. That jury just didn’t want to convict anyone of killing Lowenstein, everyone knew Draper did it, but the jury just didn’t care - I thought she belonged in prison, I understand why she did it but vigilante justice isn’t okay, that’s always been one of Jack’s pet peeves, he hates vigilantes. 

[WendyCR72]

I kinda, sorta liked "Fixed" in that it was a continuation of a chilling, great very early episode. But there were so many unnecessary mistakes which could have easily been avoided if TPTB just watched "Indifference" again. Such sloppy details sort of reduced my positive feelings for the revisit.

And a big one was suddenly making Carla Lowenstein a broken victim when the original episode clearly showed she was as horrible to her kids - drugged or not - as her scumbag hubby was. And how the HELL was the woman working at a school with young kids? SERIOUSLY? Hell no.

And Cragen was captain. However, he was not involved in the case. That was Logan and Greevey!

As I said, the sloppy characterizations of the original story and perps (minus Jacob Lowenstein) really cast a pall on what could have been a terrific revisit.

I was happy to see that Ezra was raised by a loving family, though.

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I kinda, sorta liked "Fixed" in that it was a continuation of a chilling, great very early episode. But there were so many unnecessary mistakes which could have easily been avoided if TPTB just watched "Indifference" again. Such sloppy details sort of reduced my positive feelings for the revisit.

And a big one was suddenly making Carla Lowenstein a broken victim when the original episode clearly showed she was as horrible to her kids -drugged or not - as her scumbag hubby was. And how the HELL was the woman working at a school with young kids? SERIOUSLY? Hell no.

And Cragen was captain. However, he was not involved in the case. That was Logan and Greevey!

As I said, the sloppy characterizations of the original story and perps (minus Jacob Lowenstein) really cast a pall on what could have been a terrific revisit.

I was happy to see that Ezra was raised by a loving family, though.

Agreed that it was weird how they made Carla Lowenstein something of a victim when she was just as abusive to the kids as Jacob was. Also, they didn’t get things right with what happened to Jacob Lowenstein, in that they didn’t make a plea with him to manslaughter, he was convicted of murder and sentenced to 25 years to life. That was a glaring flaw, they could’ve come up with another reason he got an early release from prison. So I agree they screwed up some things. Cragen was involved in the case though, I remember him being in the interrogation room with Greevey/Logan talking to Lowenstein at one point, so I liked that they talked to him about the case. And Lowenstein was a very creepy villain.

[andromeda331]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:12 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I kinda, sorta liked "Fixed" in that it was a continuation of a chilling, great very early episode. But there were so many unnecessary mistakes which could have easily been avoided if TPTB just watched "Indifference" again. Such sloppy details sort of reduced my positive feelings for the revisit.

And a big one was suddenly making Carla Lowenstein a broken victim when the original episode clearly showed she was as horrible to her kids -drugged or not - as her scumbag hubby was. And how the HELL was the woman working at a school with young kids? SERIOUSLY? Hell no.

And Cragen was captain. However, he was not involved in the case. That was Logan and Greevey!

As I said, the sloppy characterizations of the original story and perps (minus Jacob Lowenstein) really cast a pall on what could have been a terrific revisit.

I was happy to see that Ezra was raised by a loving family, though.

That episode infuriated me the first one being both parents' getting out. There was absolutely no way that would happen with what they were convicted of. The second making Carla a victim. She was an equal partner in beating both kids and in killing Didi. It was great to see Ezra got happy family that loved him. But that's not worth everything else. They did not need to revisit this case unless it was the happy news Jacob and Carla were murdered by prison justice. 

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That episode infuriated me the first one being both parents' getting out. There was absolutely no way that would happen with what they were convicted of. The second making Carla a victim. She was an equal partner in beating both kids and in killing Didi. It was great to see Ezra got happy family that loved him. But that's not worth everything else. They did not need to revisit this case unless it was the happy news Jacob and Carla were murdered by prison justice. 

Agreed - although sometimes awful criminals do get early releases for a variety of reasons in real life, so I bought that they could be released. However the continuity was really screwy - the way they portrayed Carla as mainly a victim and not an equal participant in the girl’s death, they said that the DA’s took a plea deal which wasn’t true, it was like they hadn’t watched the original episode closely before they did this one. I agree it was nice that Ezra ended up with a good family, and I liked seeing Cragen cross over, and Lowenstein was exceptionally creepy (the one thing they did get right) but the episode had plenty of flaws.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed - although sometimes awful criminals do get early releases for a variety of reasons in real life, so I bought that they could be released. However the continuity was really screwy - the way they portrayed Carla as mainly a victim and not an equal participant in the girl’s death, they said that the DA’s took a plea deal which wasn’t true, it was like they hadn’t watched the original episode closely before they did this one. I agree it was nice that Ezra ended up with a good family, and I liked seeing Cragen cross over, and Lowenstein was exceptionally creepy (the one thing they did get right) but the episode had plenty of flaws.

Unfortunately, your right. I've recently was shocked by John Hickely Jr. being released. I didn't think that would ever happen but it did. If they were going to revisit that case they should have done it justice. Don't sugar coat what he was, don't make Carla a victim and other details that were important.  

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Unfortunately, your right. I've recently was shocked by John Hickely Jr. being released. I didn't think that would ever happen but it did. If they were going to revisit that case they should have done it justice. Don't sugar coat what he was, don't make Carla a victim and other details that were important.  

Yeah I bought that Lowenstein might be released, after all the episode was inspired by the fact that the real life guy who inspired the Lowenstein character got early release, but they botched the execution of the episode in that they didn’t get a lot of the facts right from Indifference, they should’ve watched the episode a lot closer than they did, I wonder if they just thought that no one would remember the specific details of the original case since it was 15 years earlier, if so they were wrong. I liked some parts of Fixed but I wish the continuity had been much better. 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I bought that Lowenstein might be released, after all the episode was inspired by the fact that the real life guy who inspired the Lowenstein character got early release, but they botched the execution of the episode in that they didn’t get a lot of the facts right from Indifference, they should’ve watched the episode a lot closer than they did, I wonder if they just thought that no one would remember the specific details of the original case since it was 15 years earlier, if so they were wrong. I liked some parts of Fixed but I wish the continuity had been much better. 

I think it's just lazy. TV writers as seasons go by seem to get lazier and lazier. L&O ones did better them most but Fixed is a clear sign of just being lazy. They chose one the earliest and well known episodes and didn't bother to watch the episode. They assumed fans wouldn't notice. Of course, fans would. They always do. There had been L&O reruns on different channels for years. They knew enough to give Ezra a happy family that loved him. They could have put in the work for other parts of the episode. It is hard to see scumbags like Lowenstein get out of jail given the horrible crimes they committed. Plus the worry that they will go out and committ the exact same crime. Which is exactly the same thing that his murderer was scared of especially after learning he was living with a woman and her child. I do like the end that Jack, Arthur and Serena knows his murderer is going free because he was the victim. That was probably the most realistic outcome. No jury was going to convict her because Lowenstein was so horrible. He's dead and now he really can't hurt anymore kids. She might have been wrong that time how Emily got hurt but what about next time? 

[Spartan Girl]

“Fluency” was on a little while ago, and it was hard to watch in these current times. Especially when the asshole tried to justify his fake vaccines by saying that “nobody really dies from the flu” and tried to disparage how real vaccines work. What a sociopath.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

38 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

“Fluency” was on a little while ago, and it was hard to watch in these current times. Especially when the asshole tried to justify his fake vaccines by saying that “nobody really dies from the flu” and tried to disparage how real vaccines work. What a sociopath.

Yeah Fluency is somewhat eerie to watch since the Covid pandemic, and yeah that con artist was an absolute piece of shit, I loved that he got consecutive life sentences at the end. It’s a good episode, one of my favorite Fontana/Green episodes, however the one thing I didn’t get was when Jack brought up the movie The Third Man during his cross of the defendant, why did the defendant even admit to knowing about the movie? I didn’t really get that, it helped the prosecutions case tremendously. 

[Irate Panda]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Fluency is somewhat eerie to watch since the Covid pandemic, and yeah that con artist was an absolute piece of shit, I loved that he got consecutive life sentences at the end. It’s a good episode, one of my favorite Fontana/Green episodes, however the one thing I didn’t get was when Jack brought up the movie The Third Man during his cross of the defendant, why did the defendant even admit to knowing about the movie? I didn’t really get that, it helped the prosecutions case tremendously. 

Yes, I didn’t get that part either, I mean if the guy saw the movie and was this long-time con man, he’d have to see where the line is questioning was.  Why would he admit to knowing about it? 
 

On a side note, Serena’s exit in “Ain’t no Love” still stinks almost 20 years later:

Serena: Does Jack feel as strongly about this as you do? 

Branch: No, but it's my office and my decision, and he accepts it. 

Serena: Decision? You've already made a decision? 

Branch: I have. You're fired. 

Serena: Is this because I'm a lesbian? 

Branch: No. Of course not. No. 

Serena: Good... good.

Meanwhile, the conversation should have been:

Serena: Decision? You've already made a decision? 

Branch: I have. You're fired. 

Serena: Is this because I'm a robot? 

Branch: Yes. Of course. Yes. 

Serena: Does not compute... Does not compute.  <Rohmbot starts malfunctioning and powers down for the last time>

Edited August 1, 2022 by Irate Panda

[balmz]

 this sums up rohmbot

[andromeda331]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Serena. I can't believe she lasted as long as she did. She really should have been booted early especially after season 13 when she felt bad for the parents' who let their son be raped for money. 

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Serena. I can't believe she lasted as long as she did. She really should have been booted early especially after season 13 when she felt bad for the parents' who let their son be raped for money. 

Serena and Arthur never liked each other - they disagreed on almost everything from the start, and it seemed like Serena never even gave Arthur a chance, remember how in Arthur’s first episode Serena was whining to Jack about Arthur’s politics. It’s no wonder Arthur fired her eventually, she was just too soft to be a prosecutor. 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Serena and Arthur never liked each other - they disagreed on almost everything from the start, and it seemed like Serena never even gave Arthur a chance, remember how in Arthur’s first episode Serena was whining to Jack about Arthur’s politics. It’s no wonder Arthur fired her eventually, she was just too soft to be a prosecutor. 

I don't think she did. It's not surprising since she came on with Nora who was just as soft. No surprised that Nora picked her to work with Jack. They both had a hard time understanding people should go to jail for their crimes. She should have left when Nora left.

[Xeliou66]

I just watched In God We Trust, and I wanted to say again fuck Borgia in this episode. Usually Borgia barely made an impact, occasionally she had some good moments, but she really pissed me off in this one, she acted like the defendant being a born again Christian should give him either a free pass or a lighter sentence for the hate murder he committed. A person’s religious beliefs shouldn’t have any effect on the justice system, and it’s somewhat scary how Borgia wanted it to, when she said that “forgiveness is a Christian ideal” and Jack replied “and if you don’t believe in Christ, well you just have to do your time?”, he was spot on, no one should get special treatment because of their religion. Jack’s arguments in this episode were great, being remorseful doesn’t give you a free pass for murder, and someone’s religion shouldn’t play in role in legal proceedings. Fuck Borgia for acting like it should. And fuck the defense attorney as well who was putting on a show to push an agenda, against the wishes of her client. I actually think the defendant was remorseful, unlike many people who find religion after committing a crime, and he was ready to face his punishment, but the defense lawyer was more interested in making a statement and making a name for herself. Arthur made good points as well about having other reasons to put people in prison besides rehabilitation. The legal stuff was interesting but Borgia really angered me in this one.

The investigative stuff was interesting as well, and it was interesting how the case started with the arson/death of the firefighter and then it shifted to the cold case murder when the weapon was found on the roof. And that scumbag who started the fire trying to kill the mother of his kid was complete scum, I hope he was put away for life, his daughter had to be very scarred knowing what her father did. 

[andromeda331]

On 10/21/2022 at 2:21 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched In God We Trust, and I wanted to say again fuck Borgia in this episode. Usually Borgia barely made an impact, occasionally she had some good moments, but she really pissed me off in this one, she acted like the defendant being a born again Christian should give him either a free pass or a lighter sentence for the hate murder he committed. A person’s religious beliefs shouldn’t have any effect on the justice system, and it’s somewhat scary how Borgia wanted it to, when she said that “forgiveness is a Christian ideal” and Jack replied “and if you don’t believe in Christ, well you just have to do your time?”, he was spot on, no one should get special treatment because of their religion. Jack’s arguments in this episode were great, being remorseful doesn’t give you a free pass for murder, and someone’s religion shouldn’t play in role in legal proceedings. Fuck Borgia for acting like it should. And fuck the defense attorney as well who was putting on a show to push an agenda, against the wishes of her client. I actually think the defendant was remorseful, unlike many people who find religion after committing a crime, and he was ready to face his punishment, but the defense lawyer was more interested in making a statement and making a name for herself. Arthur made good points as well about having other reasons to put people in prison besides rehabilitation. The legal stuff was interesting but Borgia really angered me in this one.

I agree for two reasons. The first one as you and Jack pointed out if you weren't Christian you were out of luck. Religion shouldn't play any part in charging or convicting someone. They wouldn't be saying the same thing if the murderer was Muslim or Jewish not even Borgia. Which is crap. Plus all criminals would have to do is say their Christian and get away with their crimes. The other reason which never gets brought up in these type of episodes or in real life. While repenting and being forgiven is a big part of Christianity, the other part is accepting punishment for what you've done. That's a huge part and if you don't do that repenting and being forgiven doesn't count. You can't skip that part. The devout Borgia should know that.

Quote

The investigative stuff was interesting as well, and it was interesting how the case started with the arson/death of the firefighter and then it shifted to the cold case murder when the weapon was found on the roof. And that scumbag who started the fire trying to kill the mother of his kid was complete scum, I hope he was put away for life, his daughter had to be very scarred knowing what her father did. 

That part was really good. I like how the case progressed. I hope he was put away too and his daughter has a good support system and gets the help she needs.

[Xeliou66]

49 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree for two reasons. The first one as you and Jack pointed out if you weren't Christian you were out of luck. Religion shouldn't play any part in charging or convicting someone. They wouldn't be saying the same thing if the murderer was Muslim or Jewish not even Borgia. Which is crap. Plus all criminals would have to do is say their Christian and get away with their crimes. The other reason which never gets brought up in these type of episodes or in real life. While repenting and being forgiven is a big part of Christianity, the other part is accepting punishment for what you've done. That's a huge part and if you don't do that repenting and being forgiven doesn't count. You can't skip that part. The devout Borgia should know that.

That part was really good. I like how the case progressed. I hope he was put away too and his daughter has a good support system and gets the help she needs.

Yes, letting religion play a role in whether to put someone in prison or not is totally unjust and goes against every precedent in the centuries of our justice system. All people should be treated equally regardless of their beliefs, that’s a fundamental part of our laws and system. Borgia really pissed me off with her total disregard for that, and the defense attorney was smug and arrogant as well, she was using her client to score political points and her statement about her client redeeming himself in the eyes of god was stupid, could she read god’s mind? He certainly hadn’t redeemed himself in the eyes of the victim’s loved ones, they still wanted him punished. Borgia really pissed me off basically siding with the defense, it’s the one episode where I hated Borgia, usually she was bland, occasionally she had good moments, but she sucked here.

I liked the way the case progressed as well, and how it started with the arson and then solving that case led to the re-opening of the old case. That dad was just evil, I wouldn’t have minded seeing Fontana shove his head through the table like he threatened to do, and I hope the daughter got therapy and could be okay going forward knowing her father almost burned her alive.

[DXD526]

Saw Gov Love yesterday for the first time in a while. I liked how as soon as they found out the gov was gay, Fontana claimed to have already figured it out. Said he got a 'vibe' from him, which gave Van Buren and Green a chuckle. Which was followed by this -

Fontana: Do you remember how well-dressed he was?
Van Buren: Like you?

Fontana was a very nice dresser 😉

[andromeda331]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:23 PM, DXD526 said:

Saw Gov Love yesterday for the first time in a while. I liked how as soon as they found out the gov was gay, Fontana claimed to have already figured it out. Said he got a 'vibe' from him, which gave Van Buren and Green a chuckle. Which was followed by this -

Fontana: Do you remember how well-dressed he was?
Van Buren: Like you?

Fontana was a very nice dresser 😉

Yeah, he really was a nice dresser. I love the arraignment when it's annouced the guy was the governor's lover and the court crowd cheers and whistles. I could totally see that happening.

[Xeliou66]

I just saw Ain’t No Love, with Serena’s infamous ending, it’s actually a pretty good episode that is overshadowed by the bizarre ending lines, which came way out of left field. I liked the case and the investigation, and Fontana’s reaction to rap music was pretty funny, he wasn’t a fan at all, it was interesting when they went in to Fontana’s car to listen to the rapper’s CD. Arthur had every right to be frustrated with Serena as she clearly wasn’t on the side of the DA’s in the case, and it made sense that Arthur had finally had enough of Serena’s whining and her not sharing the agenda of the DA’s office and fired her. The whole lesbian reveal was so unnecessary and done just for shock value, and it’s been viewed as a mistake by the show by almost everyone since.

Fluency is on now, this is a good episode, interesting plot about the phony flu vaccine. I’ll never understand why the defendant admitted to seeing the movie that Jack asked him about during cross examination, he should’ve known that would hurt him. Borgia was pretty dull in her first episode, she wasn’t bad but she didn’t have a lot of personality.

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just saw Ain’t No Love, with Serena’s infamous ending, it’s actually a pretty good episode that is overshadowed by the bizarre ending lines, which came way out of left field. I liked the case and the investigation, and Fontana’s reaction to rap music was pretty funny, he wasn’t a fan at all, it was interesting when they went in to Fontana’s car to listen to the rapper’s CD. Arthur had every right to be frustrated with Serena as she clearly wasn’t on the side of the DA’s in the case, and it made sense that Arthur had finally had enough of Serena’s whining and her not sharing the agenda of the DA’s office and fired her. The whole lesbian reveal was so unnecessary and done just for shock value, and it’s been viewed as a mistake by the show by almost everyone since.

 

They could have swapped Jack’s stupid daughter in the recent “Open Wounds” with Serena, and it would have been the same result minus all the unnecessary angst for Jack. Come on, I can’t be the only one thinking it!

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

They could have swapped Jack’s stupid daughter in the recent “Open Wounds” with Serena, and it would have been the same result minus all the unnecessary angst for Jack. Come on, I can’t be the only one thinking it!

You made me laugh out loud. Yeah both were exceptionally whiny, I’ve always thought Serena would make a better defensive attorney than prosecutor. I’m kind of disappointed by how whiny they made Jack’s daughter.

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just saw Ain’t No Love, with Serena’s infamous ending, it’s actually a pretty good episode that is overshadowed by the bizarre ending lines, which came way out of left field.

"Is this because I'm a lesbian?" Will NEVER NOT be FUNNY and WTFish!😝 to me.

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

They could have swapped Jack’s stupid daughter in the recent “Open Wounds” with Serena, and it would have been the same result minus all the unnecessary angst for Jack. Come on, I can’t be the only one thinking it!

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

You made me laugh out loud. Yeah both were exceptionally whiny, I’ve always thought Serena would make a better defensive attorney than prosecutor. I’m kind of disappointed by how whiny they made Jack’s daughter.

 

This is disappointing to read, because the brief scenes we had of her during the original run, she didn't come off that way. And in later seasons, references were made that she was married, or had children. Jack made a comment about grandchildren or something. Of course, I'm not watching these new seasons, so I don't know if they retconned her history or not.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

"Is this because I'm a lesbian?" Will NEVER NOT be FUNNY and WTFish!😝 to me.

 

This is disappointing to read, because the brief scenes we had of her during the original run, she didn't come off that way. And in later seasons, references were made that she was married, or had children. Jack made a comment about grandchildren or something. Of course, I'm not watching these new seasons, so I don't know if they retconned her history or not.

We only saw her once during the original run, in a brief scene at the end of season 17’s Fallout where she met Jack in the restaurant, so we didn’t know anything about her personality. And yes she’s married and has a son, that was revealed in this latest episode.

Yeah Serena’s exit was bonkers and way out of left field.

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

"Is this because I'm a lesbian?" Will NEVER NOT be FUNNY and WTFish!😝 to me.

 

 

An epic line of all time.  It's a classic!  😄

[andromeda331]

On 5/23/2023 at 4:53 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I just saw Ain’t No Love, with Serena’s infamous ending, it’s actually a pretty good episode that is overshadowed by the bizarre ending lines, which came way out of left field. I liked the case and the investigation, and Fontana’s reaction to rap music was pretty funny, he wasn’t a fan at all, it was interesting when they went in to Fontana’s car to listen to the rapper’s CD. Arthur had every right to be frustrated with Serena as she clearly wasn’t on the side of the DA’s in the case, and it made sense that Arthur had finally had enough of Serena’s whining and her not sharing the agenda of the DA’s office and fired her. The whole lesbian reveal was so unnecessary and done just for shock value, and it’s been viewed as a mistake by the show by almost everyone since.

I love the episode but I hate Serena's whining and defending him. She says everyone she talked to said he was a great guy. First of all that's usually the case. If you talk to his family and friends they are most likely going to say what a great person they are. Family and friends of serial killers say the same thing. But this guy? He had no problem using drug money to buy his equipment or that his friend killed the person who was going to make his dreams come true. That really doesn't come off as great to me. I get loyalty is a thing but what about his loyalty to his other friend? He was helping to make his career happen.

Quote

 

Fluency is on now, this is a good episode, interesting plot about the phony flu vaccine. I’ll never understand why the defendant admitted to seeing the movie that Jack asked him about during cross examination, he should’ve known that would hurt him. Borgia was pretty dull in her first episode, she wasn’t bad but she didn’t have a lot of personality.

 

I don't know why he admitted to seeing that movie either. That was dumb.

 

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I love the episode but I hate Serena's whining and defending him. She says everyone she talked to said he was a great guy. First of all that's usually the case. If you talk to his family and friends they are most likely going to say what a great person they are. Family and friends of serial killers say the same thing. But this guy? He had no problem using drug money to buy his equipment or that his friend killed the person who was going to make his dreams come true. That really doesn't come off as great to me. I get loyalty is a thing but what about his loyalty to his other friend? He was helping to make his career happen.

I don't know why he admitted to seeing that movie either. That was dumb.

 

Yeah it was typical of Serena to be whiny and sympathetic to the defendant, it’s not surprising Arthur had had enough and fired her, this was one of many instances of Serena being sympathetic to defendants and not acting like a prosecutor. It is an interesting episode but I echoed Arthur’s frustration with Serena - the defendant wouldn’t help his own cause, and they had a case against him, they were right to try it, and Arthur was right to be upset that the murder would go down without a conviction, while Serena didn’t care.

Fluency is an excellent episode, it had a really good investigation with how Fontana and Green tracked down who was behind the phony vaccine, the chase at the warehouse was intense. I’ll just never understand why the defendant admitted to having seen the movie, a movie made in the 1940s that isn’t all that well known. That was really stupid on his part.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah it was typical of Serena to be whiny and sympathetic to the defendant, it’s not surprising Arthur had had enough and fired her, this was one of many instances of Serena being sympathetic to defendants and not acting like a prosecutor. It is an interesting episode but I echoed Arthur’s frustration with Serena - the defendant wouldn’t help his own cause, and they had a case against him, they were right to try it, and Arthur was right to be upset that the murder would go down without a conviction, while Serena didn’t care.

I was getting fustrated with her too. I really like what Arthur said to her in the firing. In how he described the job Serena wants it to be nice and defend the defendents. That's not their job. It's to put people behind bars for the crimes they commit. It is cold blooded. Even if the defendent is sympathetic and there have been many sympathetic defendents on the show but they still committed a crime. Victims deserve justice. For all her bending over backwards for the defendents what I always hated most about her was how she never once did the same for the victim. The victim in this episode she didn't care about or fight for. Why doesn't he deserve justice. I disagree with Arthur that she's an advocate. She's a defense lawyer. 

Quote

 

Fluency is an excellent episode, it had a really good investigation with how Fontana and Green tracked down who was behind the phony vaccine, the chase at the warehouse was intense. I’ll just never understand why the defendant admitted to having seen the movie, a movie made in the 1940s that isn’t all that well known. That was really stupid on his part.

 

Good point. I've heard of the movie referenced in a few shows and back when the Turner Classic Movie channel still played classic movies. The defendent doesn't seem like an Orson Wells fan. I never watched it because I'm not really an Orson Wells fan. Really Citizen Kane and War of the Worlds are the only things people ever talk about when talking about him.

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I was getting fustrated with her too. I really like what Arthur said to her in the firing. In how he described the job Serena wants it to be nice and defend the defendents. That's not their job. It's to put people behind bars for the crimes they commit. It is cold blooded. Even if the defendent is sympathetic and there have been many sympathetic defendents on the show but they still committed a crime. Victims deserve justice. For all her bending over backwards for the defendents what I always hated most about her was how she never once did the same for the victim. The victim in this episode she didn't care about or fight for. Why doesn't he deserve justice. I disagree with Arthur that she's an advocate. She's a defense lawyer. 

And Alex Borgia had the exact same problem in “In God We Trust.” She had more sympathy for the killer because he was a born-again Christian than for the victim and his father—who was rightfully pissed that people seemed to think deserved a free pass. Even though all his “reformed behavior” never included turning himself in.

Then again, Alex seemed visibly chastened/guilty when the victim’s father confronted them in the hall. Not so easy to woobify a Christian killer when looking at the damage he caused.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

11 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

And Alex Borgia had the exact same problem in “In God We Trust.” She had more sympathy for the killer because he was a born-again Christian than for the victim and his father—who was rightfully pissed that people seemed to think deserved a free pass. Even though all his “reformed behavior” never included turning himself in.

Then again, Alex seemed visibly chastened/guilty when the victim’s father confronted them in the hall. Not so easy to woobify a Christian killer when looking at the damage he caused.

I loathed Borgia in In God We Trust, I’m actually watching that episode right now, and Borgia infuriates me - Borgia seemed to believe that people who become Christians after committing murder should get off because of their faith and that’s fucking insane. It would create a special class that is exempt from prosecution because of their religious beliefs. Jack was right that the defense had no merit, and I liked how he said that “if you don’t believe in Christ you just have to do your time” after Borgia stated that forgiveness was a Christian ideal - religion and the religious beliefs of defendants shouldn’t have any bearing on legal proceedings. Jack’s arguments in the episode were great and Arthur made some good points in his scene as well. Borgia really angered me in this episode. Borgia and Serena are my two least favorite ADAs by a mile, all of the others were much better, Borgia and Serena were just lifeless a lot of the time and had some moments where they pissed me off. 

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And Alex Borgia had the exact same problem in “In God We Trust.” She had more sympathy for the killer because he was a born-again Christian than for the victim and his father—who was rightfully pissed that people seemed to think deserved a free pass. Even though all his “reformed behavior” never included turning himself in.

Then again, Alex seemed visibly chastened/guilty when the victim’s father confronted them in the hall. Not so easy to woobify a Christian killer when looking at the damage he caused.

 

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I loathed Borgia in In God We Trust, I’m actually watching that episode right now, and Borgia infuriates me - Borgia seemed to believe that people who become Christians after committing murder should get off because of their faith and that’s fucking insane. It would create a special class that is exempt from prosecution because of their religious beliefs. Jack was right that the defense had no merit, and I liked how he said that “if you don’t believe in Christ you just have to do your time” after Borgia stated that forgiveness was a Christian ideal - religion and the religious beliefs of defendants shouldn’t have any bearing on legal proceedings. Jack’s arguments in the episode were great and Arthur made some good points in his scene as well. Borgia really angered me in this episode. Borgia and Serena are my two least favorite ADAs by a mile, all of the others were much better, Borgia and Serena were just lifeless a lot of the time and had some moments where they pissed me off. 

I know I bring this up a lot but I would love to see even just once when Borgia or the many other characters are trying to get the DA to drop charges because the murderer is a Christian to have a religious person even someone who just know the religion point out that while forgiveness is really big in Christianity (which it is) another big part of the faith is admitting what you did and accepting the consequences for it. You can't if your a Catholic just confess to your priest and it's done. You then have to accept the consequences for what you did. If you don't do that part the confession doesn't count. Or to your Reverend. And really priests, reverends and ministers should be counciling them that they do have to come forward and admit what they did and accept whatever consequences. If they committed a crime, that's jail. It's a very big part of Christianity that so many people and every Christian on the show skips right over going straight to they've should be forgiven or are forgiven. Ah, no your not. Why can't they ever have someone point that out?  

 

 

[Jaded]

I think I've mentioned Alex being one of the ADAs I didn't like because she annoyed me more times than not. Even with all of that I still wonder why they made her death so violent and gruesome.  Did they just want it to be the complete opposite of how Claire died? 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Jaded

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

I think I've mentioned Alex being one of the ADAs I didn't like. I've also mentioned that even though I didn't really like her because she annoyed me more times than not. Even with all of that I still wonder why they made her death so violent and gruesome.  Did they just want it to be the complete opposite of how Claire died? 

I don't know if it was that or they had used all the other reasons to leave except have the ADA murdered. Out of all the leaving I hate Claire being killed off the most. That they had Lennie fall off the wagon for it. Her last episode was terrible enough with everyone attacking out of character after witnessing an execution. But then have Lennie be part of the reason. 

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't know if it was that or they had used all the other reasons to leave except have the ADA murdered. Out of all the leaving I hate Claire being killed off the most. That they had Lennie fall off the wagon for it. Her last episode was terrible enough with everyone attacking out of character after witnessing an execution. But then have Lennie be part of the reason. 

I hated Claire being killed off as well, and her last episode was so fucking terrible - a soapy disaster of a plot where everyone was OOC, and then it ended with her being randomly killed off. Claire was a good character who had good chemistry with the rest of the cast and killing her off was so dumb - I wish they had just had her decide to leave the DA’s office for private practice or something that way it would’ve given her a better ending and left the door open for her to make guest appearances in the future. 
Borgia and Serena are by far my least favorite ADAs - everyone else in that role was very good. Borgia’s murder was horrifying but I just never connected with the character much, she was pretty wooden, she had a few good moments but for the most part she was lifeless, and like I said I loathed her in In God We Trust. And speaking of that episode, yeah the defendant should’ve turned himself in as soon as he started feeling remorse, unlike some people who find religion after committing a crime, this guy did seem genuinely remorseful, but he should’ve turned himself in. As Jack said he had to answer to the state and to the victim’s family for his crime. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That they had Lennie fall off the wagon for it.

They didn't. Lennie fell off the wagon while he was at the bar. Claire was driving him home. Apparently putting that murderer to death and watching was soooooo traumatic for all who watched.

[Xeliou66]

50 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

They didn't. Lennie fell off the wagon while he was at the bar. Claire was driving him home. Apparently putting that murderer to death and watching was soooooo traumatic for all who watched.

I think he meant they had Lennie fall off the wagon to set up Claire’s death. The whole plot was epically stupid, and I didn’t buy for a minute that Lennie would drink again because of a murderer’s execution, he had seen much worse stuff where actual innocent people were killed and he didn’t drink. 

[illdoc]

54 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Lennie would drink again because of a murderer’s execution,

Actually, I always thought he started drinking because of the bad interaction with his daughter after all that time apart (having her think that the divorce was his fault because he was protecting the wife, the daughter still hating him for leaving, etc.).