S04.E10: Spills, Pills and the Midnight Lasagna

[UYI]

I could maybe see them avoiding reshooting the opening, if they were trying not do too much more than they already needed to during certain parts of the pandemic (and admittedly, it's gone between better and worse, or up and down, more times than a roller coaster; you don't always know WHAT the best decision may be any given day). 

At some point, though, they need to change it, if only so the sausage bit can finally disappear. Blech. 

 

[Bastet]

I do not share the sausage aversion (I think it's very much something Dan would do to get a laugh after he got caught switching his plate for Harris's, and I'm certainly not grossed out by it - he didn't open his mouth to show a lump of masticated food, it's just an uneaten piece of sausage touching nothing other than his own mouth), and I doubt they'll spend the money on shooting a new sequence unless Katey Sagal becomes a regular and the show goes on long enough that it looks weird for Louise not to be in the scene (they didn't shoot a new one to add Ben even though Jay R. Ferguson gets a last billing credit even for episodes in which he does not appear).

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, Colorado David said:

Eh, not a great nor bad episode.  Yeah I think Mark was hitting the height pills in addition to the ADHD pills, man, did he like jump up a foot at least??? wowzer. And my man, those button up sweaters are for old people like me, not young men.

The pill thing is interesting. Since high school I've taken caffeine pills to get up (early 50's now). It was good in that it did keep me away from sodas mostly and allowed me to function at school. So I was somewhat in Mark's mindset back then.  Today I laugh because I still take em, and I have to giggle at how much people spend on Starbucks (cough my entire family) for basically the same reason, to get going and because its what they were taught is "normal" adult behavior.  (The fact coffee smells give me an awful headache probably helped steer me this way as well.)  Besides cigarettes, I don't know any other industry that does so well at indoctrinating people at an early age to a lifelong behavior 'choice'. 

I do like seeing the Mark having problems drama as normal growing up problems, so kudos to writers wanting to tackle that. I wish I could figure what storyline Harris is going to go down, it seems stalled at the moment. Ditto Becky, she has become a one-liner deliverer.

Lol funny how we all dislike the opening.  I always skip thru it.  Instead of the table spin around, what would be better? They did the aging headshots thing already.  

 

 

 

 

The difference between using caffeine pills (NoDoz) which are OTC and not restricted, and bumming your friend's prescription drug stash has a legal implication as well as being a medical problem.  I also think that people are not taking into account schools have a zero tolerance policy and if Mark was found out to be taking prescription drugs without his own Rx, he could be tossed out of school.

[Colorado David]

16 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

The difference between using caffeine pills (NoDoz) which are OTC and not restricted, and bumming your friend's prescription drug stash has a legal implication as well as being a medical problem.  I also think that people are not taking into account schools have a zero tolerance policy and if Mark was found out to be taking prescription drugs without his own Rx, he could be tossed out of school.

 I imagine the saavy kids nowadays are 20x slicker at hiding taking whatever, and u know cell phones make being sneaky 100x easier.

[CrystalBlue]

8 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

 I imagine the saavy kids nowadays are 20x slicker at hiding taking whatever, and u know cell phones make being sneaky 100x easier.

Yes, especially since it would be considered a breach of privacy for a parent to see what's on their kid's phone texts and who they're talking to.  I just was thinking about the scenario of Darlene charging into Lanford Magnet School and explaining the problem with Mark.

[peacheslatour]

26 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

 I imagine the saavy kids nowadays are 20x slicker at hiding taking whatever, and u know cell phones make being sneaky 100x easier.

I don't know about that but I thank the powers that be every day we didn't have cell phones with cameras back in the day. Yikes.

Edited January 18, 2022 by peacheslatour

[Rocknrollzombie]

45 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

 I imagine the saavy kids nowadays are 20x slicker at hiding taking whatever, and u know cell phones make being sneaky 100x easier.

As person who grew up in the smartphone age while going to middle school and highschool. Yes somethings may be easier to hide but not always. If there’s a will there’s is a way that schools will eventually find out about certain things students have done. In my high school an entire app was banned because it was anonymous confessions that would be vulgar or worrying that were either about the students or teachers.

someone else made a burn book like mean girls that was specifically about female students at my highschool that was on Facebook. One student one time put papers on a couple of teachers classroom doors saying “your one of my thirteen reasons.”

[SoMuchTV]

3 hours ago, lostsock said:

I'm with the others here that thought that a"Dean's List" wasn't a high school thing. Honor Roll, yes. Dean's List is a college/university honor. Maybe it's different for magnet schools. Or...

Not to derail things too much, but I can accept "Dean's List".  In my kids' schools (magnet and regular), straight As was "Principal's List" (whereas all As and Bs was Honor Roll).  If the head of the school is called the dean rather than the principal (which I'm pretty sure was mentioned in the episode at some point), then Dean's List would make sense.  At least more sense than yanking your kid out of the school without looking for possible better solutions.

[Ottis]

Given the dearth of achievements by the rest of that family, their best move is to keep Mark on speed.

Also, presents for dean’s list? 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Ottis

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

I do not share the sausage aversion (I think it's very much something Dan would do to get a laugh after he got caught switching his plate for Harris's, and I'm certainly not grossed out by it - he didn't open his mouth to show a lump of masticated food, it's just an uneaten piece of sausage touching nothing other than his own mouth

The Sausage Aversion actually makes me laugh every week.  I have seen it done in the past with a cigarette in a couple of different movies/TV shows and it always cracked me up - but I do have a weird sense of humor. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:34 AM, Bastet said:

But this was another ho-hum episode.

I missed the first five minutes, so I missed the set-up for Mark's problem.  "Is this your first day here, who's happy?" about him not wanting to struggle like the rest of them and Darlene being reluctant to pull him from the magnet school were nice moments of a story that wasn't properly told.

I loved "You were right, Mom, I did say that ('If you hate me, then I'm doing my job') to my kids one day", though.

"You are not old, you are crazy" and "I don't want to be active, I just want to sit and go to hell" were funny moments between Jackie and Neville, and they're clearly trying to salvage this relationship for the long haul despite the creepy way it began, but I'm still on the fence.

At least we know where Harris has been staying (that looked like a different trailer, but I didn't pay proper attention the first time, and that's an obvious unforced error I hope the show wouldn't make).

I like Mark a lot so I was happy to see him have a storyline here. Plus, I have experience as a smart kid who's not challenged in a regular school/class but then overwhelmed in a more challenging environment and turning to something like pills to try to keep up. 

Re: Jackie and Neville's creepy relationship start - what was that? I haven't missed an episode but I honestly can't remember. 

Also happy to see Harris is OK. 

And LOVED the, "You were right, Mom" comment from Darlene.

On 1/13/2022 at 2:27 AM, Cherpumple said:

I liked that Jackie (finally) addressed her concerns with Neville like an adult rather than a lunatic, and everything worked out. I also got some laughs out of Becky flirting with the doctor and then stalking his social media. It was also nice to see Ben sitting with the family and supporting Mark without getting into a bitchfest with Darlene. What a revelation!

But yet again, I hated the way Darlene handled the situation with Mark. This woman is incapable of anything other than rash decisions when it comes to her kids. She went straight to yanking him out of his school without even attempting another solution. At the very least she could have looked at his syllabus to get a handle on his workload. And why not set up a meeting with his teachers and/or guidance counselor to discuss his options? Maybe he can change his class schedule or get after-school help. I'm not minimizing the seriousness of him turning to drugs to deal with his stress, but this school is a big opportunity for Mark, and Darlene should at least get a fuller understanding of the problem before choosing the nuclear option.

I was happy Jackie and Neville had a good talk but I was upset that he was dishonest with her in the first place. 

And yes, Darlene continues to be awful. Mark wanted so badly to get into the school. It's OK if he changes his mind but it doesn't seem like that's what happened. All your suggestions (guidance counselor, meeting teachers, looking at class schedule, after-school help, etc.) are good places to start. Also, a therapist since he did turn to using someone else's Rx. 

On 1/13/2022 at 6:44 AM, CrystalBlue said:

I kind of understand Darlene's choice to pull Mark out of the magnet school.  Dan suggested it first but then said, "You're the mother."  Darlene would have to go to the school and tell them why Mark is having problems and that he turned to drugs to cope, which would in turn get him expelled from the school for illicit drug use!  How else is she going to explain her concerns about too heavy a load or that she feels the school is not right for him and get him to stay?  Lie and just tell them she found out Mark is drinking too much coffee?

Anyway, funnily enough I found myself laughing a few times during this episode.

Mark's problems didn't start with Adderall. Darlene can be concerned about Mark's workload and want to get him help. It wouldn't be hard for her to say Mark is struggling with the course load. His guidance counselor and teachers have likely see this before but she didn't even talk to them. 

And he should also be talking to someone about his anxiety and other issues. 

On 1/13/2022 at 8:32 AM, bad things are bad said:

If a kid as smart as Mark can't handle the workload, then something is off. He should be getting some counseling at school. 

Yes, there's definitely something off. It's common for smart kids to be thrown off when grouped together with an entire school full of kids who were at the top of their class. Plus, Mark is an overachiever living with an underachieving family who cracks jokes about any sign of trying to do better or live up to your potential. Mark should be getting help. Too bad his parents are so self-involved. 

On 1/14/2022 at 4:35 AM, qtpye said:

I feel like Darlene does not really respect working hard and getting good grades because she was never that type of person. She got into “art school” on her talent and also has mentioned good grades did not do anything for Becky. Darlene never worked hard in school, yet she is the one with the degree and the manager position at the factory. Though none of this has made her successful enough to move out of her father’s house.

All if you have been talking about how good Becky looks (and she does) but I am constantly amazed at the youthful energy of Aunt Jackie. That woman is almost 70! Too bad they made her character an annoying idiot.

This is exactly what I was thinking: Darlene doesn't respect hard work. Mark cares but remember how she got him in trouble when he was taking the test. And the poor kid should have had a desk to do take his exam. And while Harris is not the bookish type, we have seen that she has more work ethic than her mother. Darlene got a job where Harris was working and instead of taking the job seriously the way Harris did, she clearly planned to goof off and do her own thing. Also, with writing, we never see Darlene trying to do that! Not necessarily as a job but writers like to write - even if it's a blog or freelance, something. All she does is chase men and I'm annoyed with how David's character was handled. 

On 1/14/2022 at 11:45 AM, izabella said:

Darlene is such a defeatist.  Dan, too, for implying she should take him out of the school.  You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because of a setback!  What is that teaching Mark?  "You can't do it," that's what.  "You're not good enough, so don't even try anymore."  "One mistake and it's over."  "Don't bother seeking solutions, you're a failure."

Mark clearly has anxiety, and has for a long time.  Work on that.  If Darlene can pay for a therapist for herself, she can pay for one for Mark, too.  Does he really need to stay up all night studying, or does he just think he does?  What are his grades like?  If he isn't failing, then maybe managing his anxiety about his grades would do more than yanking him out of a good school.  She didn't even bother to ask about his actual performance.  She didn't bother to ask if he was actually learning anything, or if he liked his classes and teachers.  She didn't bother to speak with his teachers and get their perspective on how well or not he was doing.  She didn't even bother to tell Mark that smart kids can succeed even if they don't go to magnet schools.

I agree with everything here. I think Mark will struggle (maybe not academically, but in some way) no matter where he goes to school. That's why it's important to address his underlying issues. Don't try to get him to cheat. Take an interest in his academics. Carve out a space for him to study - a space that the whole family respects. Lots of smart, academically inclined kids haven't developed good study habits because they never needed them. They're not even trying. 

Darlene isn't used to Mark needing help in school and she wants to go back to Mark not needing that kind of help so she can continue on her own journey without helping him. Her health insurance covers at least part of the cost of therapy. 

[Bastet]

22 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Re: Jackie and Neville's creepy relationship start - what was that? I haven't missed an episode but I honestly can't remember. 

She kept turning him down, but he would not respect her "I'm not interested".  (And Louise had the nerve to lecture Jackie, as if she was obligated to reciprocate his interest, instead of - if she was going to get on anyone's case about their personal business - telling her brother to back off.)  Then a few episodes later they wrote her as being into him, perpetuating the sexist (and dangerous) myth that if you refuse to accept a woman's rejection and just keep turning up long enough, she'll eventually say yes.  And not much later they added indebtedness to their new dynamic, when he loaned her money for The Lunchbox.

I mostly just go with how he/they have been written this season, since they seem intent on keeping him around, but when he does something shady like not telling her about the ex, I'm reminded how much I hated him in the beginning.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Bastet

[tribeca]

At least the sausage thing is in character for Dan.   Darlene’s cackling laugh is so not.  Every time I  see it it just looks like Darlene is Roseanne’s replacement. 

[QQQQ]

On 1/14/2022 at 10:45 AM, izabella said:

Darlene is such a defeatist.  Dan, too, for implying she should take him out of the school.  You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because of a setback!  What is that teaching Mark?  "You can't do it," that's what.  "You're not good enough, so don't even try anymore."  "One mistake and it's over."  "Don't bother seeking solutions, you're a failure."

Mark clearly has anxiety, and has for a long time.  Work on that.  If Darlene can pay for a therapist for herself, she can pay for one for Mark, too.  Does he really need to stay up all night studying, or does he just think he does?  What are his grades like?  If he isn't failing, then maybe managing his anxiety about his grades would do more than yanking him out of a good school.  She didn't even bother to ask about his actual performance.  She didn't bother to ask if he was actually learning anything, or if he liked his classes and teachers.  She didn't bother to speak with his teachers and get their perspective on how well or not he was doing.  She didn't even bother to tell Mark that smart kids can succeed even if they don't go to magnet schools.

This. I've been a post-secondary advisor for high school students since the 1990s. The fact that Darlene and/or Mark aren't aware of the grants available to help pay for college is insane. I would imagine their EFC is close to 0. Mark saying he needs to be in the top 10% of his magnet school to get a scholarship to a good college is just plain wrong. In some ways, he might be better off (financially-speaking) graduating at the top of his regular public school class than in the middle of his magnet school class.

 

And Mark has more Connor in him than he realizes. Despite the big speeches about doing whatever it takes to succeed (unlike his relatives), he turns to pills his first semester to deal with academic challenges and increased stress? Hmmm, where have we seen this before... Maybe a little less time with your boyfriend and a little more time in study groups, office hours, the library, etc. Not that this is all on him - as others have pointed out, Darlene is the worst model and has not provided any structure. But Mark has been shown as a self-advocate, so I'm sure there are resources at the school to provide support.

 

(Why am I acting like these are real people??! It all comes down to bad writing.)

Edited January 23, 2022 by QQQQ

[Virtual]

Not a good sign that the message Mark’s family has given (“we’re failures and we take pride in it!”) has inspired him to put his own health at risk to ensure he doesn’t follow in their footsteps. ☹️ He should ask his uncle DJ for some pointers, as he is at least more successful than Darlene or Becky.

I was confused as to what Dan was doing when I saw the last scene (did I miss an earlier scene where he suspected something was up?) and then was surprised to see Harris in the camper. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:58 PM, Bastet said:

She kept turning him down, but he would not respect her "I'm not interested".  (And Louise had the nerve to lecture Jackie, as if she was obligated to reciprocate his interest, instead of - if she was going to get on anyone's case about their personal business - telling her brother to back off.)  Then a few episodes later they wrote her as being into him, perpetuating the sexist (and dangerous) myth that if you refuse to accept a woman's rejection and just keep turning up long enough, she'll eventually say yes.  And not much later they added indebtedness to their new dynamic, when he loaned her money for The Lunchbox.

I mostly just go with how he/they have been written this season, since they seem intent on keeping him around, but when he does something shady like not telling her about the ex, I'm reminded how much I hated him in the beginning.

Now it makes sense why I didn't like him but I couldn't put my finger on why. I guess in between seasons I forgot some of what happened and I started to warm up to him because he seemed to genuinely care for Jackie. But now I've gone back to not liking him and I know exactly why: his shady antics with the ex. I don't remember Louise butting in, though. Oh, how I long for a different story line for Jackie. 

I haven't missed any episodes but I do forget a LOT. I think it's just because the show isn't that great (but I'm still here!).