Anticipation for Law & Order Season 21

[Door County Cherry]

FYI, I've also read that the first episode is an hour and five minutes long.  So make sure your DVR has accounted for those extra few minutes. 

[wknt3]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

They released preview pictures of the first episode today - the squad room and the DA’s office look just about the same as they’ve always looked.

Of course the squad room looks pretty much the same. The entire renovation budget for the NYPD has been spent on the SVU!

[shapeshifter]

23 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

investigate the murder of a notorious entertainer

"Notorious entertainer" could be:

• sexual harasser
• racist commentor
• rehab frequenter
• hotel room trasher
• bar brawler
• murder suspect
• formerly incarcerated
• gang affiliated 
• all of the above
  heh, that👆 would take some writing gymnastics
• or . . .?

Edited February 11, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Raja]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

"Notorious entertainer" could be:

• sexual harasser
• racist commentor
• rehab frequenter
• hotel room trasher
• bar brawler
• murder suspect
• formerly incarcerated
• gang affiliated 
• all of the above
  heh, that👆 would take some writing gymnastics
• or . . .?

Just a name like The Notorious B.I.G.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’m hoping the show will stick to its original roots and not play the DEPRESSING, OMINOUS musical score throughout the episodes like they did for the last four seasons as if it was Criminal Intent. I’d rather hear the natural sounds of sirens and traffic! Or no sounds at all.

Edited February 11, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[TakomaSnark]

 

[dargosmydaddy]

So detectives with facial hair are OK again?

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

So detectives with facial hair are OK again?

Anita be 😒😒😒😒 at Bernard!😂😂😂

[katie9918]

To borrow a turn of phrase from another throwback, I’m SO EXCITED!! And SO SCARED!!

 

There are so many ways they could mess this up given the state of Hollywood in general and the current Law and Order series in particular these days.

 

But there is Waterston and Anderson, and Donovan, and the same sets. *crosses fingers* Please let everything else be the same, just updated.

[Xeliou66]

45 minutes ago, katie9918 said:

To borrow a turn of phrase from another throwback, I’m SO EXCITED!! And SO SCARED!!

 

There are so many ways they could mess this up given the state of Hollywood in general and the current Law and Order series in particular these days.

 

But there is Waterston and Anderson, and Donovan, and the same sets. *crosses fingers* Please let everything else be the same, just updated.

Agreed - I’m excited and scared at the same time. If they stick with the classic L&O formula of case focused, investigative and legal work, that made the first 20 seasons so successful, this should be great as well. And I’m thrilled that Sam Waterston/Jack McCoy is returning. But given how bad and soapy SVU has become I’m somewhat nervous, and also I’m not liking the sound of how they are describing Bernard’s partner, Jeffrey Donovan’s character, he sounds like a stereotypical angry old school “screw the rules” cop, and that type of character has become a cliche and isn’t fun to watch, hopefully it won’t be as bad as it sounds but I won’t like it if Bernard and the Lieutenant are constantly having to reign this guy in. I look forward to seeing what the prosecutors are like and how they interact with Jack.

[TakomaSnark]

TIL that Jeffrey Donovan's third television appearance was as the murdered Nicodos brother (Edward, a dead body) in the S6 episode 'Jeopardy.' Thank you, These Are Their Stories!

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

TIL that Jeffrey Donovan's third television appearance was as the murdered Nicodos brother (Edward, a dead body) in the S6 episode 'Jeopardy.' Thank you, These Are Their Stories!

The only episode I remember Donavan in was where he was the one that killed the teacher because his stupid daughter lied about having an affair with him. When it was actually her guidance counselor AND he gave her Chlamydia.

And the character description for his detective is an aberration as this show didn’t have the rules be damned detectives.

Edited February 12, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Xeliou66]

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The only episode I remember Donavan in was where he was the killed the teacher because his stupid daughter lied about having an affair with him. When it was actually her guidance counselor AND he gave her Chlamydia.

And the character description for his detective is an aberration as this show didn’t have the rules be damned detectives.

This show had a few cops with those tendencies - Fontana comes to mind, he was a rule breaker, and both Curtis and Logan had anger issues and sometimes were like that. But yeah I hope Donovan’s character is more interesting than the description of him appears to be, I don’t like rule breaking angry cop characters, they are such a cliche. 

[Door County Cherry]

Yeah.  I do not want a Stabler on this version of L&O.

[Arcadiasw]

Like others, I'm excited and nervous. I've seen too many disappointing reboots but I hope they get this right

[katie9918]

I don’t mind detectives letting off steam amongst themselves and each other, but while many of my favorites did skirt some lines once in a while, I never felt any of them truly crossed a line, unlike on SVU, Criminal Intent, and UnStabler no matter what show he was on.

 

Being said, with police morale so low these days in general, I’m already steeling myself for more offensive material than Mothership had before, but Jeffrey Donovan can handle that kind of material without coming across as someone who never should have passed the psych exam let alone make detective.

 

I’m hoping they steer clear of broader politics and focus on episodes case by case, which is when this show was always at its best. 
 

For Xfinity subscribers, 21.1 is now available to set to DVR! I’ve been stalking it for the past two weeks.

 

As for any potential returning guest spots, I think I’d welcome just about everyone back they want to bring back. 

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, katie9918 said:

I don’t mind detectives letting off steam amongst themselves and each other, but while many of my favorites did skirt some lines once in a while, I never felt any of them truly crossed a line, unlike on SVU, Criminal Intent, and UnStabler no matter what show he was on.

 

Being said, with police morale so low these days in general, I’m already steeling myself for more offensive material than Mothership had before, but Jeffrey Donovan can handle that kind of material without coming across as someone who never should have passed the psych exam let alone make detective.

 

I’m hoping they steer clear of broader politics and focus on episodes case by case, which is when this show was always at its best. 
 

For Xfinity subscribers, 21.1 is now available to set to DVR! I’ve been stalking it for the past two weeks.

 

As for any potential returning guest spots, I think I’d welcome just about everyone back they want to bring back. 

I thought detectives crossed the line a few times on the Mothership, Fontana in particular was a real prick, he definitely crossed the line when he stuck the guy’s head in the toilet, and he came close a few other times as well, and also Curtis crossed the line when he choked the suspect and threatened to kill him in the interrogation room. There may have been a few other instances as well, but overall I agree that the detectives didn’t cross the line often. Donovan’s character sounds like he has a lot of Fontana’s worst traits and sounds very cliched, like I say, I hope that the character is a lot better than the description makes him out to be. The show almost always wrote its characters well so hopefully that continues.

[shapeshifter]

20 minutes ago, katie9918 said:

I’m already steeling myself for more offensive material than Mothership had before, but Jeffrey Donovan can handle that kind of material without coming across as someone who never should have passed the psych exam let alone make detective

Good point. I’m recalling Jeffrey Donovan believably portraying the killer astronaut on Monk. Fingers crossed. 🤞 

[Gramto6]

29 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Good point. I’m recalling Jeffrey Donovan believably portraying the killer astronaut on Monk. Fingers crossed. 🤞 

That episode is on MeTV tomorrow evening. It is 7PM my time (Mountain time) so may be earlier or later depending where you live.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Gramto6
typo

[TakomaSnark]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The only episode I remember Donavan in was where he was the one that killed the teacher because his stupid daughter lied about having an affair with him. When it was actually her guidance counselor AND he gave her Chlamydia.

And the character description for his detective is an aberration as this show didn’t have the rules be damned detectives.

Oh I don't even think he got an official credit because he was just a dead body in 'Jeopardy.'  I think you'd have to look closely to know it was him but 'Jeopardy' is one of my least favorite episodes, so I am disinclined to pull it up on DVR to confirm that.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Oh I don't even think he got an official credit because he was just a dead body in 'Jeopardy.'  I think you'd have to look closely to know it was him but 'Jeopardy' is one of my least favorite episodes, so I am disinclined to pull it up on DVR to confirm that.

Maybe we should take this discussion to the season 6 thread, but I have to ask, why do you not like Jeopardy? It’s a favorite of mine, I loved how Schiff realized something was off with the judge and asked Jack to look into it, and it was really cool seeing Schiff in the interrogation room at the police station where he just stood in the doorway and motioned for everyone to leave without saying a word. 

[TakomaSnark]

I agree with the Schiff part being compelling but I guess I just found the rest of the Nicodos drama kind of meh. 

I do love the trivia that Louis Zorich was married to Olympia Dukakis, though :)

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought detectives crossed the line a few times on the Mothership, Fontana in particular was a real prick, he definitely crossed the line when he stuck the guy’s head in the toilet, and he came close a few other times as well, and also Curtis crossed the line when he choked the suspect and threatened to kill him in the interrogation room. There may have been a few other instances as well, but overall I agree that the detectives didn’t cross the line often. Donovan’s character sounds like he has a lot of Fontana’s worst traits and sounds very cliched, like I say, I hope that the character is a lot better than the description makes him out to be. The show almost always wrote its characters well so hopefully that continues.

Detective Fontana really stood out, to the point that I would say that Dennis Farina was still playing LT Torello of Crime Story. One of the earlier line from Organized Crime was telling the NYPD Italian liaison that his old school SVU stuff doesn't play any more, how far they can have Detective Cosgrove take things in a decade older world might only seem relatively bad to viewers still young enough to be in the advertisers targeted age demographic. 

[katie9918]

I will admit that I am biased in favor of police in general, but there were definitely a good number of times I side-eyed every cop who had more than a line on this show due to attitude and/or actions and SVU was a non-starter with me after season one because they not only justified and glorified actions of the few bad apples, but continue to make it seem like it’s far more regular than it is in reality.

 

But I am really hoping they explore how the last couple of years has affected the psyche of the police who remain dedicated to their jobs in the face of all the adversity they’ve faced, both fairly and unfairly.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Right! Forgot about Fontana. And while Rey went overboard a couple times, and Mike did after Max was murdered and was grieving, the latter two never outright had the attitude of taking it personally and blatantly violating suspects’ rights or the law. And I hope the description of Donavan’s character isn’t going to be some hybrid of Stabler and Fontana. That’s not how the mothership rolled. And Jack or no Jack, if this show ends up doing that and if the ADA turns into a winning at all costs like that asshat Driver was on Criminal Intent, or even the Brooklyn and Bronx ADAs from previous seasons, I am OUT. I have the original I can watch and enjoy.

[katie9918]

This revival is going to have a tough needle to thread because we’re all going to hold it to a higher standard than its more sensational and inferior spin-offs.
I see McCoy as a somewhat merciful DA, but there is no way he would stand for what’s happening right now in many large cities’ DA offices and that’s as far as I will go on that.

As far as the NYPD, I would rather see honest, dedicated cops doing their best with what they’re handed, including busting their own without mercy if they need to. We need positive portrayals of the system these days, even if it is just Law and Order.

[Raja]

Given that almost all the cases are charged as  2nd degree murder the Order side D.A. can side step what other real life D.A.s are doing  for, drugs, thefts and bail recommendations. Maybe more cases would feature the juvenile justice system.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, katie9918 said:

I would rather see honest, dedicated cops doing their best with what they’re handed, including busting their own without mercy if they need to.

This seems likely to drive at least a couple of plots.  
The question for me is:  
Will the errant members of the NYPD who need busting be single-episode guest stars, several-consecutive-episode guest stars, recurring seasonal guest stars, occasionally recurring guest stars, or regulars?

Tune in to L&O season 21 to find out.  
Cha-Chung.

[katie9918]

Not here for regulars, especially if they decide to spring it as some kind of gotcha midseason finale for shock value or some other nonsense other series have to lower themselves to for ratings.

 

I highly doubt anyone else would be interested in such a thing, but I would love to see a story of a cop who started out in the last decade with the very best of intentions, bought into the protect and serve oath, and then just was completely jaded by the system, the media, the police deaths, and the police and DA corruption around them. 
 

I hardly think this show would be brave enough to call out mainstream media, but I never thought at the time they’d be brave enough to call out certain *ahem* in the post 9/11 world and they did. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by katie9918

[Door County Cherry]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Good point. I’m recalling Jeffrey Donovan believably portraying the killer astronaut on Monk. Fingers crossed. 🤞 

His finest performance.  Before anyone asks, yes I've seen him in Burn Notice, L&O and the American version of Touching Evil and I stand by my statement. 

[katie9918]

1 hour ago, Door County Cherry said:

His finest performance.  Before anyone asks, yes I've seen him in Burn Notice, L&O and the American version of Touching Evil and I stand by my statement. 

I do agree with that, but I’m hoping he’s more a cross between Michael Westen and a Boy Scout. We need positive portrayals of police to inspire the next generation of police, as well as the truthful negative portrayals to inspire real reform in the system.

Mothership did that in its original incarnation. Let’s hope it draws inspiration from itself and not its lesser spin-offs.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

His finest performance.  Before anyone asks, yes I've seen him in Burn Notice, L&O and the American version of Touching Evil and I stand by my statement. 

Part of the excellence of Jeffrey Donovan as the killer astronaut was how tightly written and produced were the episodes of Monk.  
And the casting was always great, from Tony Shaloub to the other main cast members to the many guests, and acting is a team effort.

The OG L&O had a lot of those qualities too.

If 21 has at least almost as much quality in those areas, I will be pleasantly surprised. 
If 21 is just a little lacking, I’ll give it a chance to find its footing.  
But if 21 becomes, for example, a soap opera, or if gratuitous crap is substituted for elegantly constructed plots, I doubt I’ll watch.  
And, lastly, dear 21 writers (if your assistant has printed out this thread and it has caught your eye), don’t even consider padding the script with overly lengthy chase scenes.

Edited February 13, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Door County Cherry]

17 hours ago, katie9918 said:

Mothership did that in its original incarnation. Let’s hope it draws inspiration from itself and not its lesser spin-offs.

It's not just the mothership.  It's pretty much every iteration of the franchise.  Even when the cops behave badly (Stabler should have been bounced ages ago, not wooed back) the angle this show takes is that they're "right" because they just care so damn much.  Constitution be damned. It rarely takes the POV that you shouldn't approve of their methods.

The only time this show disapproves of cops is when those cops are guest characters being investigated by our "heroes." 

And I highly doubt he's going to be anything like his Monk character. I just happened to really love that performance.  I don't mean I want L&O to recreate it. 

[wknt3]

One thing that has me optimistic after the Super Bowl is that NBC seems to be leaning heavily on promoting continuity with Anderson and Waterston front on center on just about every promo and everyone else in the background and copy featuring the classic formula. Which doesn't necessarily mean that it's an actual reflection of the content (NBC promo monkeys live to mislead) but is a good sign in that it means what NBC wants and thinks will appeal to viewers is the same thing most of us here including me want - the classic format and sticking to what worked so well.

Edited February 14, 2022 by wknt3

[TakomaSnark]

8 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

It's not just the mothership.  It's pretty much every iteration of the franchise.  Even when the cops behave badly (Stabler should have been bounced ages ago, not wooed back) the angle this show takes is that they're "right" because they just care so damn much.  Constitution be damned. It rarely takes the POV that you shouldn't approve of their methods.

The only time this show disapproves of cops is when those cops are guest characters being investigated by our "heroes." 

And I highly doubt he's going to be anything like his Monk character. I just happened to really love that performance.  I don't mean I want L&O to recreate it. 

I was watching an episode of SVU this week, the title escapes my mind at the moment. One of the TARU guys is left alone with a suspect in the interrogation room and is literally caught by Benson and Stabler beating the ever-loving shit out of the suspect. Stabler, of course, defends his colleague; he gets angry when it's suggested that Olivia might do the proper thing and report the incident to Cragen. In the end, it's painted as heroic that... She buries the truth and says nothing.

 

[shapeshifter]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:01 PM, Door County Cherry said:

FYI, I've also read that the first episode is an hour and five minutes long.  So make sure your DVR has accounted for those extra few minutes. 

Yes, I'm seeing a 5-minute overrun too on TitanTV. My current favorite show (Ghosts) starts on the hour on CBS.
[shapeshifter, the retired librarian Googles...]
Ooo! Whew!

• "As part of the deal for L&O‘s return, new episodes of the series will be available the next day on Peacock as well as on Hulu as part of a remaining clause that grants the Disney-backed platform in-season stacking rights."
  hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/law-order-revival-nbc-peacock-1235025776/

[Jaded]

During the last couple seasons Bernard and Lupo were close in age but in that case they were both on the younger side so it felt like that scenario kind of worked better. There's something about both partners being older that I don't really like. It would have been more interesting to do the younger/older partner thing to show two styles of policing especially now.

If Donavan's character is going to be a hothead I'm not sure how long I'll stick around.  Hotheads are a big reason I quit Chicago PD a few years ago especially the head hothead on that one.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Jaded

[Prevailing Wind]

Re: People I'd like to see return: Fran Lebowitz, the Judge.

Re: Hudson University.  I sometimes watch "Unforgettable" on the StartTV channel. They have picked up Hudson & run with it. I've seen several episodes where they mention Hudson U. and I grin every time.

I can't wait to find out who she is... https://variety.com/2022/tv/features/law-and-order-surprise-return-sam-waterston-interview-1235175196/

I don't watch SVU, so if the DA's office has become a shitshow according to them, it could be Jack decided to come out of retirement and run for office again to clean it up, The voters know him and know the fact that he's afraid of no one - not even Gov. Shalvoy.

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Re: People I'd like to see return: Fran Lebowitz, the Judge.

Re: Hudson University.  I sometimes watch "Unforgettable" on the StartTV channel. They have picked up Hudson & run with it. I've seen several episodes where they mention Hudson U. and I grin every time.

I can't wait to find out who she is... https://variety.com/2022/tv/features/law-and-order-surprise-return-sam-waterston-interview-1235175196/

I don't watch SVU, so if the DA's office has become a shitshow according to them, it could be Jack decided to come out of retirement and run for office again to clean it up, The voters know him and know the fact that he's afraid of no one - not even Gov. Shalvoy.

Hudson U has become an inside joke amongst fans of the L&O franchise they’ve had so many episodes set there.

I am really curious as to whether this show will even acknowledge what SVU has done to the DA’s office, because the SVU writers have repeatedly crapped on it to the point of implying the higher ups in the DA’s office are corrupt and only care about politics, snide comments about them are made in almost every episode. I doubt they will even address it though, because I don’t think the dumbass SVU writers will admit they’ve screwed the pooch on their writing for the DA’s office. So I expect them to act like nothing has happened, hopefully the SVU writers will take note of the Mothership being back and will stop the senseless trashing of the DA’s office.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Hudson U has become an inside joke amongst fans of the L&O franchise they’ve had so many episodes set there.

Yep, it's become a drinking game. Every time a character says "Hudson University" you have to take a drink. Much like "Veneer" on Fraiser.

[Prairie Rose]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:38 PM, katie9918 said:

To borrow a turn of phrase from another throwback, I’m SO EXCITED!! And SO SCARED!!

 

There are so many ways they could mess this up given the state of Hollywood in general and the current Law and Order series in particular these days.

 

But there is Waterston and Anderson, and Donovan, and the same sets. *crosses fingers* Please let everything else be the same, just updated.

There's also Camryn Manheim as the LT, who guested in a couple Stone-era episodes before hitting it big on The Practice. I think she'll fit in just fine.

[Door County Cherry]

The mods could use your help!  There is currently a plan to have a live chat in the episode thread of the season premiere.

Our question is whether that will be enough of do we need a separate thread so west coasters aren't spoiled.

So do you plan to be around to live chat on Thursday?  And which coast are you on?

Thanks!

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

The mods could use your help!  There is currently a plan to have a live chat in the episode thread of the season premiere.

Our question is whether that will be enough of do we need a separate thread so west coasters aren't spoiled.

So do you plan to be around to live chat on Thursday?  And which coast are you on?

Thanks!

I’m on the east coast, but I don’t watch until a little after the episode has ended that way I can fast forward through commercials, and I avoid all forums until after I’ve finished watching the episode, so it doesn’t matter to me. 

[Prevailing Wind]

East coast, but I prefer to watch the show with my full attention. I learned during the X-Files and the AOL chat rooms - live chats do not work for me.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m on the east coast, but I don’t watch until a little after the episode has ended that way I can fast forward through commercials, and I avoid all forums until after I’ve finished watching the episode, so it doesn’t matter to me. 

Is this for Thursday night or Saturday night?

[Xeliou66]

10 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Is this for Thursday night or Saturday night?

Thursday night, when the new episodes air.

[dttruman]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Thursday night, when the new episodes air.

They are repeating it on Saturday night also at 8pm

[Prairie Rose]

Count me in for the live chat!! I'm on the East Coast.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

The mods could use your help!  There is currently a plan to have a live chat in the episode thread of the season premiere.

Our question is whether that will be enough of do we need a separate thread so west coasters aren't spoiled.

So do you plan to be around to live chat on Thursday?  And which coast are you on?

Thanks!

 

2 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

East coast, but I prefer to watch the show with my full attention. I learned during the X-Files and the AOL chat rooms - live chats do not work for me.

I’m on the East coast, too and like @Prevailing Wind, want to have my full attention when watching. The live chat, you run into missing something.

So if you’re taking votes, it’s a no live chat for me.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

East coast, but I prefer to watch the show with my full attention. I learned during the X-Files and the AOL chat rooms - live chats do not work for me.

This👆 is me too, albeit different shows and message boards back in the day. 
If all y'all decide to run a live chat in the episode thread I probably won't notice until it's over, so spoiling isn't a problem.

However, since you're asking for opinions, I think a separate thread for the live chat might make it easier to follow the after-airing discussion. But I might be wrong about that?

I've participated in the live chat on PrimeTimer for an award show and it was okay, but it kind of squelches in-depth discussion.
But hey, in these days, maybe that would be a good thing?

shapeshifter's Final Answer: Ask the moderators which they think would be easiest realistically possible to moderate.

Edited February 22, 2022 by shapeshifter