S03.E01: Mad As A Hatter

[Trini]

SEASON PREMIERE - As Batwoman continues to keep the streets of Gotham safe, Batwing joins in on the action, but Luke quickly realizes he hasn't quite mastered his suit. Meanwhile, as Alice sits hopelessly imprisoned in Arkham, Sophie fully enjoys her freedom. When Ryan pays Alice a visit to ask about the bombshell she dropped - that Ryan's birth mother is still alive - Ryan must decide if she should go down the rabbit hole of her past.

As Mary prepares to finally graduate from medical school, she feels the absence of her family more than ever. But when an Alice admirer stumbles upon one of the missing Bat Trophies, Gotham and the Bat Team get mixed up in the madness, culminating in a shockingly gruesome graduation... and an equally shocking new partnership.

Holly Dale directed the episode written by Caroline Dries.

Airdate: 10/13/2021

[Trini]

Clip:

 

[scarynikki12]

So we have a new Mad Hatter and he’s Alice’s #1 fan.

Ryan if you want to make easy money just sell that weed where it’s legal.

I love a Mary and Alice scene but I’m glad they aren’t acting like BFF. It just wouldn’t make sense for them with their history.

Congrats on graduating Mary! I’m proud of you fictional character!

Good Alice impression Mary.

Montoya!

Mad Hatter going after my Mary is not ok. And it’s not ok to go after Dr. Hall either!

Shows need to stop the myth that a defibrillator can bring people back to life.

Luke fix your suit.

Don’t ever meet your heroes is solid advice.

I like Mary’s real speech. Aww Kate sent her a white coat.

So it’s Montoya who finds a way to bring Batwoman and Alice together again. 

[Jediknight]

The actress for Montoya, played Montoya in Gotham.  She was freaking badass in this episode, really looking forward to what they have in store for her.  She already knows that Ryan is Batwoman.

If they're gonna be bringing in Gotham actors, may I suggest Robin Lord Taylor and Cory Michael Smith reprising their roles?

Robin Givens is totally Ryan's mom.

[Primal Slayer]

It was a decent premiere. The actor who played the new Hatter did well enough but....the writers made no sense that a hat can just instantly mind control everyone. If my memory serves correctly, The Mad Hatter hypnotizes/places mind control devices on his victims. He cant just put on a hat that gives him superpowers. 

Alice must be truly broken to just allow the Bats take her back to Arkham so easily. Last year she was kicking ass and taking names and now she's just giving up without a fight. This is the 2nd or 3rd time Ryan has double crossed Alice so hopefully they dont repeat this again. No way that Alice would trust  Ryan.

I do love that Alice outted Ryans identity to Montoya, why would Ryan be surprised? Alice doesnt exactly owe you anything.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Primal Slayer

[Trini]

I know Alice is a main character so they have to keep coming up with more and more ridiculous ways to keep her in the main stories, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. She's good as an antagonist, but it doesn't make any sense that she's free and the 'good guys' keep working with her. Also I question whether they actually need Alice, but that's the plot for this season.

I did really like how Ryan, Luke, Mary, and Sophie are all friends and are hanging out, supporting each other, and working together. The Bat-Team is also a BatFam! ❤️

Things mostly worked out - I guess? - but even while I was watching I was thinking that there were several better solutions to the New Mad Hatter situation than what they went with.

Okay, sucks that Montoya knows Batwoman's secret identity; but would she really be able to "shut down" Batwoman? I feel like Luke at least should have a plan for situations like this.

Speaking of Luke, when are we getting those Lucius Fox flashbacks? At least we get his voice, for now.

[yellowfred]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

If my memory serves correctly, The Mad Hatter hypnotizes/places mind control devices on his victims. He cant just put on a hat that gives him superpowers. 

Yeah, that's what I remember, too.  Also, I feel like the only special thing about Poison Ivy's vines is that she can control them, not that they make any plant grow way faster.  Then again, I feel like this plot line is gonna depend a lot on the items themselves being powerful, and not just things that powerful people happened to use, so it's probably best not to think too hard about it.

As far as Alice revealing Ryan's identity, there are definitely worse people she could have told than a detective who just wants Ryan to finish the job she's already working on.

I'm glad Sophie got to be a good detective in this episode.  I kind of hope they do more of those investigative montages, since I think it's more interesting than just showing the debrief after they've figured out the thing.

[Primal Slayer]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

 

Okay, sucks that Montoya knows Batwoman's secret identity; but would she really be able to "shut down" Batwoman? I feel like Luke at least should have a plan for situations like this.

 

She could inform the mayor and cops, follow Ryan to the batcave and confiscate everything.

[Cress]

12 hours ago, yellowfred said:

Then again, I feel like this plot line is gonna depend a lot on the items themselves being powerful, and not just things that powerful people happened to use, so it's probably best not to think too hard about it.

Well I think the items have to be powerful. Otherwise, why would Batman have locked them all up, if they had no power without the villains? Of course, he could have tried to destroy all the items, but maybe he thought he might need their technology or power for a just in case emergency situation. Maybe Lucious told him to keep the items in storage. I wonder what Lucious's AI will say to Luke. Will it feel like Luke can be with his dad again, like he wanted to when he almost died?

Anyway, I'm glad that Mary is officially a doctor now. Does that mean her underground hospital will now be legal? I like Sophie much better now that she's not in the Crows anymore. I don't mind Alice continuing as a main character, now that Renee Montoya got her release sanctioned by the mayor. If Alice had stayed in Arkham and that new Mad Hatter guy was in Arkham too, there would be a risk that they would team up and do some terrible stuff. (Alice did say she didn't kill him, so I think he survived? She could have just pulled the hat off him when they hugged, though.)

[Quark]

Great premier. Looking forward to this season especially Ryan meeting her Mum.

[akg]

23 hours ago, Cress said:

Well I think the items have to be powerful. Otherwise, why would Batman have locked them all up, if they had no power without the villains?

I'm not sure what they're going with on this show but, in the comics, Batman was shown to collect souvenirs and display them in the Batcave. The alternative universe Bruce who had crossed the line into killing in Crisis on Infinite Earths had a case of things from his victims, including Clark Kent's glasses so it would be in character here too.

[thuganomics85]

Definitely getting a kick out of them getting Victoria Cartagena to reprise Montoya after she played her on Gotham for it's first season.  Looks like she will get more to do this go around, even if she's not exactly going to be a full-fledge ally.  Thought she might be the Gordon to Ryan/Batwoman's Batman, but she certainly has no issues using underhanded tactics like blackmailing Ryan or working with Alice, the least trustworthy person in Gotham, probably.

So, it looks like instead of bringing back the "classic" villains, this is going to be a case where all of those items from last season will somehow create new versions.  I guess this could be a fun way to do new takes on these characters without having to stick to the lore, but let us see if they can pull it off.  Mad Hatter 2.0. was decent, at least: especially the whole being an "Alice fanboy" thing.

I know Luke thinks it's the suit that is messing up, but I have to imagine the problem will end up being with his own issues/nerves.

I'm guessing the whole Sophie randomly dating thing is going to go somewhere else soon.  Characters aren't allowed to just be about the casual hook-ups for long on television.  True love is somewhere!

Poor Mary had a rough episode, but at least she graduated finally!

Yep, Robin Givens is so going to be Ryan's birth mother.

Solid premiere.

[CletusMusashi]

They can do way better for a name than Wing Man. 

How about "Flying Fox?" He could cover up the obvious link by speaking with an Australian accent.

"Croikey! Look how aggroissive this hoidlum is!"

Anyway, it's Gotham City. People there are so stupid they couldn't even figure out who Robin was, back when he was fighting crime in the same exact costume he wore as a circus performer.

Edited October 17, 2021 by CletusMusashi

[legaleagle53]

On 10/14/2021 at 11:49 AM, Cress said:

Anyway, I'm glad that Mary is officially a doctor now. Does that mean her underground hospital will now be legal?

It already is. Jacob got on board with it before he turned himself in and gave Mary the wherewithal to hire real doctors to do the heavy lifting for her until she finished medical school and was fully authorized to practice medicine. Since she still owns the clinic, she can legally continue to do whatever she wants regarding patients who would normally fall through the cracks of the medical system -- as she said, as twisted as Liam was, he did have a point about the system and its fatal flaws -- and use her new status as a full-fledged doctor to help fix the system the right way.

Edited October 18, 2021 by legaleagle53

[tennisgurl]

Nice start to the new season, I love that they brought Victoria Cartagena from Gotham back as Renee Montoya, who was really well cast but underused by the show, so I am excited that they have a lot more for her to do in this show. Does this mean Gotham takes place as a part of the Arrowverse and she's this universes version of Renee? That would be awesome, I need that crossover! Having a bunch of new versions of Batman's classic rogues sounds really fun, an issue I have had with this show for awhile is that their Gotham doesn't really feel like Gotham, so having new spins on some classic Batman villains seems like it could fix that. New Mad Hatter was a good start, I liked combining the crazy hat guy thing with a fixation on social media, plus making him an Alice fanboy.

I know that Alice is a main character and basically needs to stick around, but I so disliked what they did with her last season that I can not get into her as a possible anti hero yet. They spent so much time trying to retroactively justify all of the terrible things that she did that it really turned me of her potential redemption. I am glad that Ryan still hasn't forgiven her at least, even if she can work with her and even show empathy for her clear mental breakdown. I wish we had a break from Alice, at least for awhile. 

Poor Mary, she cant even get through graduation without some new horrible trauma. At least Kate sent her a coat and everyone had fun hanging out with her after, I really liked seeing everyone hanging out together and her speech was really nice. 

Looks like Ryan's long lost mom is Robin Givens! She presumably had a good reason to give Ryan up, but is she a decent person with a good reason to leave Ryan, or a supervillain? Possibly a bit of both? With long lost parents it can go either way.

[Lantern7]

Fun stuff. Mary got to disassemble a guy live on stage!  Not that she wanted to, of course.

Over in the comics, readers have been introduced to Joker's new second, Punchline. She had a one-shot story where she did a podcast based on his various crimes. Seeing Hatter v2.0 take the same route was a nice touch. Well, until he got the one dudebrah to kill the other dudebrah. Plus side: nowhere near as annoying as the Mad Hatter from Gotham.

Yes, it's funny that Victoria Cartagena gets to play Renee Montoya again . . . but did she get any real time in that role on Gotham? I vaguely remember that Renee in bed with Barbara Keene, and then she got sent to the cornfield. I'm sure she'll have a lot more to do here. Strong-arming Batwoman into recovering the various bad guy crap was cool, and Alice spilled about her secret identity.

Alice going on about her father "helping" her . . . it's Alice. It's within the realm of possibility that she didn't have another massive breakdown, and that she wanted to get close to Ryan. Bonus: it sets up the "buddy cop movie from Hell" this season aims to become.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 10/17/2021 at 2:27 AM, CletusMusashi said:

They can do way better for a name than Wing Man. 

How about "Flying Fox?" He could cover up the obvious link by speaking with an Australian accent.

"Croikey! Look how aggroissive this hoidlum is!"

"You call that a supersuit? THIS is a supersuit!"

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:18 PM, thuganomics85 said:

So, it looks like instead of bringing back the "classic" villains, this is going to be a case where all of those items from last season will somehow create new versions. 

I think it is a safe bet that there will be a mix of classic villains coming back and nouveau-versions of them appropriating the classic villains' tools, perhaps some episodes where the classic villains get pissed about the emergence of posers.

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

How would Montoya be able to make a list of what Bat-trophies were taken? 

Like it would make sense if Kate compiled a list before she left, because she's the one who took them, or if Luke did, since he'd been the systems guy and the only one with a connection to what Bruce did.

But Montoya would have no frame of reference as to how many things were taken from the cave or from the Gotham River, because any number of them could have been snatched up before the cops were made aware of the situation.