S03.E07: 51%

[Sakura12]

Gotham's crime families meet to discuss the fear toxins hold on the city -only to be confronted by the mastermind himself. As Dick and Barbara consult the Oracle to preempt Crane's next move. Starfire and Blackfire reach an understanding.

[Primal Slayer]

This show..... they made Oracle into a glorified Big Brother. Barbara IS Oracle. She runs things. It isn't a giant machine in a fancy room.

Starfire just burns a criminal to ashes....ok. looked good but you're a celebrity whose supposed to save people, probably shouldn't be doing that. They could've had Blackfire manipulate her throughout the episode but nope. And are they just going to ignore that Blackfire stole a woman's body who had a family? Or are they doing what they do best? Retconning it.

Im always here for some Dick/Babs though so at least we have that. 

[Affogato]

53 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

This show..... they made Oracle into a glorified Big Brother. Barbara IS Oracle. She runs things. It isn't a giant machine in a fancy room.

Starfire just burns a criminal to ashes....ok. looked good but you're a celebrity whose supposed to save people, probably shouldn't be doing that. They could've had Blackfire manipulate her throughout the episode but nope. And are they just going to ignore that Blackfire stole a woman's body who had a family? Or are they doing what they do best? Retconning it.

Im always here for some Dick/Babs though so at least we have that. 

Maybe she’s not Oracle *yet*.

[UnoAgain]

Kinda surprised we didn't get a follow-up on tim this episode...  I don't mind Kory roasting valeska.. I grow weary if ppl doing bad shit then whining they didn't have a choice... 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Damn, I really liked this episode.

So....is Jason still on the Fearless Juice?  He doesn't seem to care that he's tied up and not doing anything "fun." He's not there passive type, as we have seen.

Love that Gar is working to save Jason, even though the other Titans have seemingly written him off.

Small nit-pick:  what was up with that clunky edit when Blackfire/Starfire were talking to Valaska's son?  Very sorry the son died, and I was very pleased when Kory lit her up like a bonfire.

Except for the Barbara/Dick hook up at the end- it felt extraneous and frankly I was bored.

[Jenniferbug]

This show has become background noise for me so maybe I missed the explanation, but where the heck did Oracle come from? Barbara and Dick seemed almost fearful of it and if it was more powerful then the Batcave computers, then I don't think Bruce built it.

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

This show has become background noise for me so maybe I missed the explanation, but where the heck did Oracle come from? Barbara and Dick seemed almost fearful of it and if it was more powerful then the Batcave computers, then I don't think Bruce built it.

I think Barbara built it after she couldnt be Batgirl anymore?

[millennium]

18 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I think Barbara built it after she couldnt be Batgirl anymore?

I think I read somewhere, Wikipedia maybe, that Barbara is Bruce's intellectual equal. 

Blackfire is stunning.  Bad she may be, but she makes Starfire look shopworn when they're side by side.   Had to laugh at Conner's super-understatement: "You look ... good."

Dick as played by Brenton Thwaites continues to impress me after three seasons, sometimes even by the smallest gesture, as when he paused his conversation with Barbara so he could get a chair and look her in the eye without the slightest hint of seeming like he was accommodating or patronizing her.  

 

[Phillygurl]

Blackfire's suit alone made this episode.

As far as Starfire killing someone, this "someone" had just killed her own son in cold blood after having Kory beg him to come back to save the city. I'm having a hard time judging Kory for that.

People keep asking if Jason is redeemable but what does redemption look like? Manipulated or not, he killed Hank. He needs to be placed in Arkham for the rest of his natural born life.

I loved the Team in action. I wish there was much more of that.

Wasn't really impressed with Dick and Barbara but it's fine if they want to take it there. I just hope they don't do a character assassination on Kory and make her a jealous, unrequited-love-having, angsty mess. They should just get her with that sexy therapist.

[Primal Slayer]

20 minutes ago, Phillygurl said:

Blackfire's suit alone made this episode.

As far as Starfire killing someone, this "someone" had just killed her own son in cold blood after having Kory beg him to come back to save the city. I'm having a hard time judging Kory for that.

 

Blackfires costume is a lot more sleek and streamlined compared to Korys....they should've rethought the Starfire costume.

This someone also wasnt a threat to Kory. They easily could've dropped her off at the cops and let Barbara handle it. It wasn't a kill or be killed situation. If she in general is fine with killing baddies off the bat then yeah thats just her but they have seemed to be working with authorities in the past. She's standing next to her sister who has killed multiple people and she knows it. 

[Sakura12]

This is still the Gotham show with the Batfam taking center stage yet again. While the Titans do very little. Connor is used for science talk and a shield, Gar walks around talking to himself because no one else talks to him and Kory and Blackfire seem to have a family reconnecting storyline going on. Which is not at all what was set up in last seasons finale. 

I get them making Oracle a computer because DC is still being stupid and not sharing characters. That was a way around it. 

So I guess Blackfire and Connor are going to get together. Dick and Barbara are whatever. Don't really care. I want to see actual focus on the other Titans. Mostly because I don't find Crane or Red Hood compelling as villains. Despite them killing Hank (which was more because the actor wanted out) they don't seem that threatening. Deathstroke felt more like a threat then these 2. 

[Cthulhudrew]

I am unsure what the point was of Scarecrow employing Lady Vic if she isn't even around to be his muscle when the Titans show up. They might as well have had her just show up on her own and not tie her to Scarecrow, if she's not going to be instrumental to his story.

(Speaking of, I really wish they'd have ended that plot with this episode and gotten on with other things, like Donna and Raven.)

[blackwing]

I think the introduction of this Oracle was poorly executed... there was no real explanation of how it came to be, why Barbara is so scared of it, why Dick thinks it is the only answer, exactly how it was used in the past, why it is so familiar with Dick, how Scarecrow was able to corrupt it, or why the only solution was to destroy it.  There's no anti-virus program that Conner could have read a manual about and created?

I found myself more interested in the Five Families mob bosses than I am in Scarecrow or Red Hood.  I'd love to learn more about each one of the now-Four.

I liked the music and the dance-like movements when Blackfire put on the gauntlets and materialised her costume.  The appreciative look and comments of Conner were funny.  

I liked the fight at the end, but again, the fight should have been over in an instant because of Conner.  Moreover, why did they even need the Oracle?  Doesn't he have super hearing?  Superman can fly into space and tune in to conversations all over the world.  Surely Conner could have fine tuned onto Crane or Jason's voices.  Also, at the end when those two escaped, why wouldn't Conner be able to track them?  He could listen for their voices or hear a truck driving away from the scene. 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I think the introduction of this Oracle was poorly executed... there was no real explanation of how it came to be, why Barbara is so scared of it, why Dick thinks it is the only answer, exactly how it was used in the past, why it is so familiar with Dick, how Scarecrow was able to corrupt it, or why the only solution was to destroy it.  There's no anti-virus program that Conner could have read a manual about and created?

I found myself more interested in the Five Families mob bosses than I am in Scarecrow or Red Hood.  I'd love to learn more about each one of the now-Four.

I liked the music and the dance-like movements when Blackfire put on the gauntlets and materialised her costume.  The appreciative look and comments of Conner were funny.  

I liked the fight at the end, but again, the fight should have been over in an instant because of Conner.  Moreover, why did they even need the Oracle?  Doesn't he have super hearing?  Superman can fly into space and tune in to conversations all over the world.  Surely Conner could have fine tuned onto Crane or Jason's voices.  Also, at the end when those two escaped, why wouldn't Conner be able to track them?  He could listen for their voices or hear a truck driving away from the scene. 

It is almost certainly a corrupted Wayne Industries/Batman AI, as the conversation with Dick shows.

Scarecrow was operating out of the Mr Freeze compound, using Mr Freeze computers and this is a Wild Mass Guess, but I suspect that Oracle may have had something to do with Barbara's father's death, which explains why she had such an immediate emotional reaction and 'killed it' when she realized she had put Dick in danger.

In any case Barbara is probably smarter than Dick and better versed in computers. she knows the damage Oracle and Scarecrow/Oracle could do with that kind of access to identities, power grids, medical records, criminal records, security systems......but, yeah, there were alternatives to what she did. It was an immediate emotional response.

Scarecrows plan was to get rid of all the Titans and his plan for Dick and Conner involved having someone blow up using something like he used to kill Hank. this hits at Dick's leadership and Conner is a little kid, still, and trauma would be the way to fight him. Dick is right to not put too much on him at this time. No one needs a superboy with ptsd. When he matures he really will be way overpowered for this group, as you point out. Depending on sun color--I don't remember-- he would be an immense help on Tamaron to Blackfire as both a friend and a warlord, so the sensible show would send him off with her. In my opinion.

I like the use of Krypto, he is my favorite super guy.

2 minutes ago, Affogato said:

sorry, I'm a klutz apparently

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Affogato

[Affogato]

22 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

Kinda surprised we didn't get a follow-up on tim this episode...  I don't mind Kory roasting valeska.. I grow weary if ppl doing bad shit then whining they didn't have a choice... 

I’m horrified, frankly, by both Valensha and Kory’s actions. Barbara should arrest Kory. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Affogato

[Cthulhudrew]

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think the introduction of this Oracle was poorly executed... there was no real explanation of how it came to be, why Barbara is so scared of it, why Dick thinks it is the only answer, exactly how it was used in the past, why it is so familiar with Dick, how Scarecrow was able to corrupt it, or why the only solution was to destroy it.  There's no anti-virus program that Conner could have read a manual about and created?

I agree that the execution of Oracle was pretty bad. We were given an ominous warning a few episodes ago, and then again here, but no real explanation. The closest I can think of as to why Barbara feared it so much is that it was obviously using extralegal/illegal methods of surveillance and intelligence gathering (note Barbara's initial opposition to its request to do so, and the mention of how the NSA wanted to shut it down). Other than that, though, everything else seems kind of vague, and certainly it doesn't rise to the level of DOOM! that the characters seemed to be pressing.

As to how Scarecrow got in there, again, not explained. Presumably Jason told him about it and got him access.

[Primal Slayer]

If they arent allowed to have Crane suit up as Scarecrow....it's getting a little boring having these characters that are very much active but arent allowed to suit up on screen.

[UnoAgain]

18 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I agree that the execution of Oracle was pretty bad. We were given an ominous warning a few episodes ago, and then again here, but no real explanation. The closest I can think of as to why Barbara feared it so much is that it was obviously using extralegal/illegal methods of surveillance and intelligence gathering (note Barbara's initial opposition to its request to do so, and the mention of how the NSA wanted to shut it down). Other than that, though, everything else seems kind of vague, and certainly it doesn't rise to the level of DOOM! that the characters seemed to be pressing.

As to how Scarecrow got in there, again, not explained. Presumably Jason told him about it and got him access.

I know they used the picture that lady vic took of Barbara... As to how Crane knew.. I agree Jason spilled the beans on how Bruce caught Crane the first time

[Sakura12]

I get why they went with computer oracle, I didn't say they executed it well. This showrunner has such a hardon for the Batfam and when he's not even allowed to use them properly. Which is why he should stick with focusing on the actual Titans. 

[Wonderlad71]

On 9/10/2021 at 2:42 AM, Sakura12 said:

This is still the Gotham show with the Batfam taking center stage yet again. While the Titans do very little....

Amen to everything you said. It felt like a Gotham procedural until the end - so meh! Bored by Dick and Babs. Blackfire is a  WTF character but that costume looks great. Oh and yay Krypto gets some action! 

[tennisgurl]

It really is obvious that the writers wanted to do a Batfam show, its pretty much swallowed the show, except for alien sister drama. I am glad that we got Krypto action with this week, being the best boy. An d we got some decent team stuff, enough to make me wish we got more.

The acting has all been really solid this season though, especially Brenton Thwaites, who is doing a LOT to keep me invested in the Batfam drama.

Edited September 14, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Affogato]

What hasn't been mentioned is the overall conceit for the episode. Everyone who makes decisions makes close decisions that seem slightly better than the alternative at the time for one reason or another, sometimes purely emotional. I'm guessing that most of those 51% decisions will go wrong somehow, if they didn't already.

-Dick wanting to use Oracle

-Barbara 'killing' Oracle

-Jason leaking the drug onto the streets

-I'm guessing Scarecrow underestimating Jason and the gangsters

-Kory getting the son involved

-Mom killing her son immediately and showily, pissing off Kory

-Kory killing the mother

Gar going off to look for Molly alone

Barbara taking that turn into dick's bedroom and restarting a relationship with Dick,who is still struggling with testosterone poisoning

[Quark]

Blackfire's suit was amazing and I liked the fight at the end.

I'm not very impressed with this season.

[moonshine71]

Wtf, how did that crime boss woman ever ascend to power being that stupid?

She couldn't, idk, wait until the publicly known superhero left until she executed her son? What exactly did she think was going to happen once she gave the information she had promised up and had no more leverage, they were just going to leave her with a body to dispose of and pretend they didn't just witness her murder someone? 

🙄