Only Speculation Without Spoilers In the Thread

[shapeshifter]

Every murder mystery deserves a speculation thread. 
Right?
Right.

I apologize if the thread title is a little too on the nose. 
Feel free to suggest alternate titles.

To get the ball rolling:

Tim Kono's hoarding of the Hardy Boys books --now hollowed out to contain jewelry-- suggests he might have had some mental illness, and he really did commit suicide. Schizophrenia is the TV fictional go-to mental disorder, but maybe Tim Kono has Dissociative Identity Disorder ("Split personality") and the person in the hoodie was himself. Kind of a less violent Fight Club scenario. And if Tim Kono was the murderer from 10 years ago, he might not have known it was his alter ego.

Edited September 6, 2021 by shapeshifter

[AnimeMania]

50 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Every murder mystery deserves a speculation thread. 
Right?
Right.

I apologize if the thread title is a little too on the nose. 
Feel free to suggest alternate titles.

To get the ball rolling:

Tim Kono's hoarding of the Hardy Boys books --now hollowed out to contain jewelry-- suggests he might have had some mental illness, and he really did commit suicide. Schizophrenia is the TV fictional go-to mental disorder, but maybe Tim Kono has Dissociative Identity Disorder ("Split personality") and the person in the hoodie was himself. Kind of a less violent Fight Club scenario. And if Tim Kono was the murderer from 10 years ago, he might not have known it was his alter ego.

I figured the hollowed out books was where all the stolen jewelry was kept, since they weren't stealing it for the money, it was just a place to hide it that nobody (parents) would look.

I posted in the third episode thread my person that I believe did it: The Deli King's Son. I didn't really have a reason, but you know here are a few reasons:

He has a disability, I don't exactly remember what, I think he was deaf.

He seems very normal, quickly introduced and just as quickly dismissed so as not to draw attention.

He is around the same age as The Hardy Boys and if he was in the building during that time, he probably knew them but they never included him in their activities.

Maybe he was supplying the food for the party going on on the roof or was throwing the party.

I pick him because he was the most normal person on the show and they didn't really try to make him stand out. The perfect person to throw you off the scent of a murderer.

[grandmabegum]

No thoughts on the murderer yet, but I think that tie-dye guy is actually a good person. I think he ran away from the Tim Kono murder cause he was too late and needed to avoid detection and I think he's following Mabel because he does believe she's next. Who the tie dye guy is, I have no idea, but I think he's a red herring. I also think this might explain Mabel's "It's not what you think," line in the pilot episode.

On 9/5/2021 at 8:50 PM, AnimeMania said:

He has a disability, I don't exactly remember what, I think he was deaf.

He is deaf. The actor that portrays him is deaf. I always like when shows cast actors to portray characters with the disability the character has.

Maybe he's the person who pulled the fire alarm cause the noise would not bother him at all.

Now, off to the market to purchase a turkey to cook tomorrow morning and then to rewatch after my coffee has full set in.

ETA: Wasn't there another speculation thread or did I just have a strange dream last night.

Edited September 7, 2021 by grandmabegum

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, grandmabegum said:

No thoughts on the murderer yet, but I think that tie-dye guy is actually a good person.

Pretty sure that is Oscar from prison.

[grandmabegum]

I think you're right about it being Oscar. After I thought about it it makes a lot of sense considering Mabel's conversation with his father. He was very adamant about Mabel staying away from Oscar, but he can't keep  Oscar away from Mabel. Also, you know, I'm sure his parole/probation officer would not look to kindly at him being caught near the scene of a crime. Even if he didn't actually kill Tim, which I think he didn't, he'd probably have a difficult time proving he had nothing to do with it.

ETA: but I still standby my thought that he had nothing to do with it.

Edited September 7, 2021 by grandmabegum

[cardigirl]

21 minutes ago, grandmabegum said:

I think you're right about it being Oscar. After I thought about it it makes a lot of sense considering Mabel's conversation with his father. He was very adamant about Mabel staying away from Oscar, but he can't keep  Oscar away from Mabel. Also, you know, I'm sure his parole/probation officer would not look to kindly at him being caught near the scene of a crime. Even if he didn't actually kill Tim, which I think he didn't, he'd probably have a difficult time proving he had nothing to do with it.

ETA: but I still standby my thought that he had nothing to do with it.

In the previews where Mabel is shown leaning over a bloody body with blood on her shirt and Oliver and Charles run up to her, the body lying in front of her is in a tie-dyed hoodie. In fact it it THE tie-dyed hoodie. 

[djsunyc]

yeah i think hooded tie-dye guy is oscar and he is going to die - only leaving mabel alive.

i'm making a close my eyes throw a dart guess here - i'm picking arnav as the killer.  (he is friend's with steve martin's daughter).  something is going to tie her into this case and with kono.

Edited September 7, 2021 by djsunyc

[grandmabegum]

2 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

In the previews where Mabel is shown leaning over a bloody body with blood on her shirt and Oliver and Charles run up to her, the body lying in front of her is in a tie-dyed hoodie. In fact it it THE tie-dyed hoodie. 

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that that wasn't tie-dye guy that was bleeding with Mabel. I'm sorry if I said something that made you think that. I just don't think tie-dye guy is the murderer.

4 minutes ago, djsunyc said:

i'm making a close my eyes throw a dart guess here - i'm picking arnav as the killer.  (he is friend's with steve martin's daughter).  something is going to tie her into this case and with kono.

Hmmm, interesting. This might be a good reason that Emma broke up with Charles. Maybe Lucy told her something about Arnav and she didn't feel safe in the building anymore. Also perhaps why Arnav still keeps in touch with Lucy (via Arnav's daughter -- I think that was who was Facetiming with Lucy] to keep tabs on her.

[MerBearStare]

20 minutes ago, grandmabegum said:

This might be a good reason that Emma broke up with Charles. Maybe Lucy told her something about Arnav and she didn't feel safe in the building anymore. Also perhaps why Arnav still keeps in touch with Lucy (via Arnav's daughter -- I think that was who was Facetiming with Lucy] to keep tabs on her.

Ohhhh, good call. When Charles told that story, I thought it was pretty extreme and shitty of the mom to take her daughter away from a parental figure who clearly loved her, in the middle of vacation no less. But that would be a good reason to do something that extreme. 

[grandmabegum]

Yeah, I'm kind of fence sitting on it. On the one hand I can definitely see that if you felt you/your daughter were in danger you would not want to tip your hat to the person you are in danger from - hence the "hard break." On the other, if you did feel you were in danger, why would you let your daughter still stay in touch with the family.

Either way, I think we can all agree that Lucy is missing out on that circus class with Tina Fey. Oh wait, nevermind. If Lucy was seven when they moved in and they were together for 6 years she'd probably be too old for the class. Nards.

[Kiddvideo]

I can't figure out who Tim would've seen murder Zoe to make him clam-up and not try to free Oscar. Some sort of authority figure? Other than Zoe's or his parents, I have no idea (and the odds of his parents killing him are...0?) 

Tim must've felt safe moving back into the building, and the most likely scenario I see is that the killer didn't know Tim could identify him, but when Tim lost his job he started blackmailing the killer. (How did Oscar not witness the murder is a question I have, too. He never accused anyone for his defense?)

However it shakes out, I hope it's someone who's been part of the story and not some random connection from the days when The Hardy Boys were robbing the residents.

[AnimeMania]

35 minutes ago, Kiddvideo said:

However it shakes out, I hope it's someone who's been part of the story and not some random connection from the days when The Hardy Boys were robbing the residents.

That's why I posted that they should be showing us more tenants instead of wasting a whole episode on Sting, who we know will not end up as the killer. Give us more suspects and more motives.

[grandmabegum]

49 minutes ago, Kiddvideo said:

However it shakes out, I hope it's someone who's been part of the story and not some random connection from the days when The Hardy Boys were robbing the residents.

Yesssss! Even the link to Gus Montrose is a stretch.

I'm a little scared cause I just looked up Hardy Boy book titles as I am not familiar with the series and there are a ton they could absolutely use as clues to drive the story. I imagine "What Happened at Midnight" might come up if they start tracking Zoe's murder.

[grandmabegum]

I did post a theory in the episode 4 thread about why Oliver and Charles didn't know about the murder of Zoe which would negate the Anzar theory. Basically Oliver and Charles were both dealing with losses of relationships that they were to pre occupied with their own grief to notice. That negates my thought that Emma and Lucy left cause Lucy saw something.

I hope I'm wrong about the pair being grief stricken and that they are just self absorbed cause the thought of Tina Fey being SUPER pissed that Anzar is in her circus baby group and thus agreeing to do the podcast out of spite fills me with such glee.

[LilaFowler]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:58 PM, Kiddvideo said:

I can't figure out who Tim would've seen murder Zoe to make him clam-up and not try to free Oscar. Some sort of authority figure? Other than Zoe's or his parents, I have no idea (and the odds of his parents killing him are...0?) 

Tim must've felt safe moving back into the building, and the most likely scenario I see is that the killer didn't know Tim could identify him, but when Tim lost his job he started blackmailing the killer. (How did Oscar not witness the murder is a question I have, too. He never accused anyone for his defense?)

However it shakes out, I hope it's someone who's been part of the story and not some random connection from the days when The Hardy Boys were robbing the residents.

Oscar would take the fall for his own father (Mr. Torres, the super), I would think. Maybe his dad already had a criminal record and even if Zoe's death was an accident, he couldn't risk losing his job or going to jail. Do we know for a fact that Oscar went to prison for 10 years because of Zoe's death or something else? I may need to re-watch because it seems a bit vague.

Do the residents still not know about the Hardy Boys robberies? It seems like some people know about these "bad news" kids (Oliver's son) but others seem to be totally clueless (Charles, Oliver). You'd think that a series of break-ins, robberies, and a young resident falling to her death in the building would be major news, news that Charles and Oliver wouldn't miss regardless of what they may have been going through at the time. Maybe the Hardy Boys shenanigans are still largely a secret? Zoe's parents owned the entire 11th floor, too. There is no way her death wouldn't be a huge deal in the Arconia.

I posted this in the E04 thread, but Mabel's (current, dilapidated) apartment is 12E. This is the apartment that she claims her aunt (Salma Ramirez) owns and that she is renovating for her. However, in Mabel's own flashback to meeting Tim Kono, Tim says that he knows her aunt: she gives out full-sized candy bars at Halloween and lives in 12A. On Charles's Possible Suspects whiteboard, the current occupant of 12A is Bunny Folger. The diamond ring ended up in her apartment instead of Tim Kono's. When Charles and Mabel broke into Bunny's apartment to retrieve the ring, at no point did Mabel mention that she was familiar with the place because her aunt used to live there.

Maybe it's nothing. Maybe Aunt Salma sold 12A and bought 12E. The show makes a point of telling or showing us who is in which apartments, though. It seems like it's a clue to ...something. We actually don't know very much at all about Mabel Mora. What does she do for money? What has she been doing for the last 10 years? She claims to be renovating 12E but what actual evidence is there of that? She seems to be squatting there more than anything. Where is her aunt and/or the rest of her family? Mabel is an unreliable narrator, not sure that I trust anything that she's said or shown us.

Edited September 9, 2021 by LilaFowler
clarity

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Maybe it's nothing. Maybe Aunt Salma sold 12A and bought 12E. The show makes a point of telling or showing us who is in which apartments, though. It seems like it's a clue to ...something. We actually don't know very much at all about Mabel Mora. What does she do for money? What has she been doing for the last 10 years? She claims to be renovating 12E but what actual evidence is there of that? She seems to be squatting there more than anything. Where is her aunt and/or the rest of her family? Mabel is an unreliable narrator, not sure that I trust anything that she's said or shown us.

I'm beginning to think that might be true of all three of the leads. 😲Is there any real peeling of the onion being done?🧅

[jabRI]

I don't  find it so odd that the Steve & Martin characters don't remember Tim.  They've been living in the same building for ages, and didn't even know each other before the fire drill.  Not at all unusual in NYC.  Love the show so far.  Love a good, well written mystery, waiting for a few more red herrings.  Like why would Tim not only hide but keep all that jewelry for 10 years, makes no sense to me.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, jabRI said:

I don't  find it so odd that the Steve & Martin characters don't remember Tim.  They've been living in the same building for ages, and didn't even know each other before the fire drill.  Not at all unusual in NYC.

Yes.
And probably Charles and Oliver *would* have known about Zoey's death if they'd been into True Crime podcasts back then. But they weren't. They were probably both focused on their own careers and relationships and day-to-day cares and other (not True Crime) interests.

I still haven't rewatched the episodes, so I can't recall: Was it assumed Zoey was murdered or a suicide at the time?

[cardigirl]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes.
And probably Charles and Oliver *would* have known about Zoey's death if they'd been into True Crime podcasts back then. But they weren't. They were probably both focused on their own careers and relationships and day-to-day cares and other (not True Crime) interests.

I still haven't rewatched the episodes, so I can't recall: Was it assumed Zoey was murdered or a suicide at the time?

I don't think it is specifically said but the Zoey is shown storming off, then Mabel hears the scream, sees Tim walk past her saying he saw Zoey arguing with someone "else" and then we see Mabel begging Tim to say something because "they're taking Oscar away tomorrow."  And there is a shot of Zoey on the ground.  Oliver's son says that Mabel used to run around with "that girl who was pushed off the roof ten years ago" and that she's bad news. 

Maybe Oliver and Charles didn't make the connection between Tim Kono and Zoey because they thought that Zoey's death (murder or manslaughter) had been resolved?

 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Oliver's son says that Mabel used to run around with "that girl who was pushed off the roof ten years ago" and that she's bad news. 

I looked up the transcript, which is:

• [Will] ...Uh, so Dad, I listened to your podcast. You didn't tell me you were doing it with Mabel Mora.
• [Oliver] Why, you know her?
• [Will] She used to stay here during school breaks. She hung out with this group of kids, and one of them was Tim Kono.
• Wait, what? She knew Tim Kono?
• [Will] She 100% knew him.
• What does that mean? Why would she not tell us that?
• [Will] I mean, maybe because she thinks it looks suspicious. Especially since the last time she was here, one of the other friends died. She got pushed off the roof.

In real life, Will would be an unreliable narrator because he was a contemporary of "The Hardy Boys" but not included in their group, so it's 10-year-old memories of hearsay.
But for purposes of a dramedy murder mystery, likely Will is an exposition fairy. 
I dunno.

 

[AnimeMania]

Only Murders in the Building Opening Credits Reveal Clues About Show’s Mystery

Pay close attention to the opening credits for clues about the show’s mystery. The opening animation of each episode is slightly different, if you can spot the differences it will give you clues about that episode and/or the series in general.

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Only Murders in the Building Opening Credits Reveal Clues About Show’s Mystery

Pay close attention to the opening credits for clues about the show’s mystery. The opening animation of each episode is slightly different, if you can spot the differences it will give you clues about that episode and/or the series in general.

I stopped reading at the article headline of:   
     “Warning: Spoilers for Only Murders in the Building”

@AnimeMania, are they just “spoilers” to those who haven’t yet seen all of the currently released episodes?  
Or are they spoilers for the entire season?  
(If they are spoilers to the entire season, you/we could start a thread named something like “Only Speculation WITH SPOILERS In the Thread.”)

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by shapeshifter
typo

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I stopped reading at the article headline of:   
     “Warning: Spoilers for Only Murders in the Building”

@AnimeMania, are they just “spoilers” to those who haven’t yet seen all of the currently released episodes?  
Or are they spoilers for the entire season?  
(If they are spoilers to the entire season, you/we could start a thread named something like “Only Speculation WITH SPOILERS In the Thread” thread.)

 

I think they are clues/Easter Eggs that the creators were hoping you would find that would help you to figure out what happened or what will happen. I think that even if they directly told you who killed Kono or Zoe, there would still be way more interesting things going on with the plot. To even do what the article wants you to do to find the clues requires way more commitment than 99% of the viewers are willing to give. I am sure somebody is going to do it, but they will probably post the results on Reddit, not here, unless somebody follows Reddit and tells us what they find.

No they would not be "spoilers" because they are a part of the show, not coming from a outside source. This would be similar to "Blindspot" and their anagrams of the episode title names or "Debris" and their end of episode transmissions that the networks didn't bother to let you hear because they got cut off, but people who watched with a streaming service heard and let people know they were there.

[shapeshifter]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:02 AM, AnimeMania said:

I think they are clues/Easter Eggs that the creators were hoping you would find that would help you to figure out what happened or what will happen

I still haven't read the article because I am overly spoiler paranoid, LOL, but I have now re-watched all but the most recent episode. 
Rewatching the first episode I started seeing possible "Easter Eggs" but didn't note them, and now I don't recall them--at least not consciously--but perhaps enough so that when all is revealed in the end I might derive some added pleasure from recalling them as they are pointed out to us by the characters. 

There are a few mystery shows (The Closer comes to mind, and also some of Law & Order) that I have enjoyed rewatching in syndication years later because I don't quite recall who-dunnit but certain clues seem to ring a bell for me as it unfolds. Then re-watching a 3rd time, I'll recall the end, and more "clues" will jump out.

Eventually I do lose interest. 

[AnimeMania]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:09 AM, shapeshifter said:

@AnimeMania, are they just “spoilers” to those who haven’t yet seen all of the currently released episodes?  

Yes, they are they just “spoilers” to those who haven’t yet seen all of the currently released episodes. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Yes, they are they just “spoilers” to those who haven’t yet seen all of the currently released episodes. 

Thanks for clarifying that.
But I'm so anxious lately because of real life changes and situations that I'm still worried it might point out stuff that I'm not sure I want pointed out (if that makes sense), so I'm going to wait at least for a bit to read the article.

Anyway, having now re-watched all episodes 1-4, I'm wondering if Mabel killed Tim, and, if she did, does that mean she would not be in a Season 2 if there is one?
I noticed that Selena Gomez is a producer of the show.

[grandmabegum]

Standby for so much speculation! And so many "If"s! Then feel free to prove me wrong as I'm sure I am.

What IF Mr. Torres (Oscar's dad] killed Tim. Just hear me out. Oscar's first story about why he was going up the stairs, to see Mabel, was a lie. What IF his story to beat up Tim. was also a lie? If he wanted to beat up Tim it didn't have to be right then and there and with the fire alarm going off he could have just left and surprised Tim later.

So what IF he was racing up the stairs to warn Tim? Perhaps Oscar told his dad something that made him so enraged he wanted to kill Tim? I don't think it would have anything to do with Zoe's murder. There has been some speculation that the "cheating" Zoe was talking about on the roof was between Tim and Oscar. So what IF while Oscar was in prison he and Tim talked and solidified their relationship. Possibly the reason that getting the engagement ring that night was important (same day of Oscar's release]. So what IF Oscar came out to his dad and his dad was furious and rushed out of the apartment to Tim's place. Oscar follows and is unable to catch the elevator so he takes the stairs to Tim's pulling the fire alarm on the way hoping Tim will leave the building. He continues to Tim's apartment and hears the gun and runs away knowing his dad shot Tim (why he chooses to go up, I don't know]. I know a lot of IFs.

This would also sort of explain why Oscar is being sneaky and wearing the same hoodie (not that I'm not guilty of wearing the same hoodie constantly]. He's hiding from his father. While Torres's "Oscar's not here," could have been a lie, it could also be that Oscar hasn't returned to the building -- not that his father would hurt him, but hey, if your father killed your boyfriend you'd be pissed too. Or maybe you wouldn't. I don't know you.

I don't believe that Torres killed Zoe. And if this theory about Tim's murder is true than I don't think the murders were related. Of course that means the black market jewelry is also a red herring, at least for Tim's murder.

I know this is far fetched and I do believe Theo Dimas is shady as heck and somehow involved I thought I'd mix it up with a new theory.

[shapeshifter]

Riffing off of your speculation, @grandmabegum, I recall in an earlier episode that Mabel speculated that Tie-Dye Hoodie Guy might be who Tim Kono bought the diamond ring for. Plus, the ring was too big for Mabel, who is petite, but still that means it might be for a man-sized hand.

So, maybe Zoe was going to spill the gay beans so-to-speak 10 years ago when Tim and Oscar were on the DL, which caused Oscar’s dad (the building super who might be homophobic) to argue with Zoe—either pushing her off the roof or causing her to fall—which Tim saw.

And Oscar’s dad, the super, would have access to the mail. Maybe Oscar’s dad tried to prevent Tim and Oscar getting together (after Oscar got out of prison) by rerouting the jewelry delivery, and when that didn’t work: Kapow!🔫

But if Oscar is wearing rainbow colored hoodies and planning a yoga business, I don’t think his dad killing Tim is going to un-gay him. But maybe Dad thinks it will. 🤷🏻‍♀️
And, finally, if all that speculation is on target, Tim would not want to tell anyone it was Oscar’s dad who pushed Zoe off the roof if Oscar told Tim to keep it secret.
I guess? 

[grandmabegum]

Agreed with the ring size comment @shapeshifter. And yes, Mabel makes the comment when they're making the suspect board that the fiancee may be a guy. The actual look of the ring made me assume it was for a female, but to each their own.

I still don't think Oscar's dad pushed Zoe, just cause he'd stick out like a sore thumb at the party, but maybe as the super he knew a different way onto the roof. It's hard to tell how big the party is and with the size/shape of the building, I assume there'd be multiple points of entry (how connected, I don't know] And people if they saw him could assume he was either doing a job or looking for Oscar.

And not to bring anyone down, but I'm not surprised at what people will do to "un gay" someone. It's super sad, but still a reality. So I could believe that Mr. Torres would think this would solve the "problem" as he sees it in his eyes.

ETA: I absolutely didn't connect the tie-dye to a take on a pride rainbow, duh! Thanks!

Edited September 15, 2021 by grandmabegum

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, grandmabegum said:

ETA: I absolutely didn't connect the tie-dye to a take on a pride rainbow, duh! Thanks!

I could be wrong about it. He could be going for a retro hippie look—especially with the Yoga Studio game plan.
But we get to speculate here. 😉

[grandmabegum]

Good, cause I'd like to speculate about what Oliver's usual pretzel order is. You know it involves some sort of dip.

[AnimeMania]

I thought Oscar was making eyes at Mabel in the flash back. Since Mabel is not rich, Oscar might feel he has more in common with her. Not sure if Oscar is gay since he said he wanted to have ice cream with a girl on the beach, then went and got some ice cream for Mabel.

[grandmabegum]

Yes, he certainly comments and smirks at Mabel in the flashback. The ice cream on the beach comment is another wrench. I'm happy to go with him being bi.

Tim is harder to read as he doesn't really seem to have any sexuality. Oscar and Zoe as shown being all over each other, bu I don't recall anything between Tim and Mabel. This leads me to think that he may be a teenager struggling with his sexuality.

Edited September 15, 2021 by grandmabegum

[AnimeMania]

Just throwing this out there, maybe Zoe was killed (by accident) by a girl with a Whale Tattoo on her back (probably drawn on with a marker). Tim didn't see the face, just the tattoo and assumes that it was Mabel. It could have been Lucy (probably not) or her friend (more likely, Charles' neighbor's daughter) who she chats with. Tim thinks it is Mabel who killed Zoe and tells Oscar what he saw and Oscar decides to take the fall. Oscar may have told his father the truth which is why the father hates Mabel.

[grandmabegum]

Mabel's wearing a coat (at least when she chases Tim the the elevator] I couldn't find the party scene. So if Tim saw a tattoo he shouldn't have thought it was Mabel.

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, BennyBrown said:

In the episode 5 opening credits there is a hula girl on the window sill of Charles room.  Both Oscar and Oliver’s cars have hula girls on the dash in the episode!  Quite the Easter egg.

[AnimeMania]

May or may not be spoilers, but I just stumbled upon an Official Trailer that I had not seen before, it was released right before the show aired. It is filled with scenes from episodes that have not aired yet (as well as a few scenes I don't think are actually in the show), given what I know so far, some of it might be thought of as spoilers. It includes what could be considered a lineup of suspects, including people I never suspected (yet!). Probably just as interesting is who is not there.

If you still want to watch it, it is here.

Stream It Or Skip It: ‘Only Murders In The Building’ On Hulu, Where Steve Martin, Martin Short, And Selena Gomez Search For A Killer In Their Luxe Apartment Building

The same Trailer is also a video on IMDB.

Edited September 20, 2021 by AnimeMania
Trailer also on IMDB

[shapeshifter]

I'll "Skip It" for now, @AnimeMania, but probably come back to watch it after the end of the season. 

(According to Wikipedia, there are 10 episodes scheduled, with the last set to air Oct. 19.)

[KatWay]

I haven't seen episode 5 yet and it might be a red herring plus with how comedic the show is I don't know if I can see them go there, but I personally find Charles very suspicious for some reason

they established he's a good actor and a liar, his story to bassoon lady about the break-up with his ex seemed incomplete to me - what went down for her to ditch the guy in the middle of a cruise and never let him talk to her kid again? I mean it might just be another more personal reveal coming but idk the hallucinations were kinda creepy for me lol

[Kiddvideo]

It sounds like the Cutter is dealing directly with the jewel thief and Tavo. Does Teddy’s son work at the deli? Someone would have to slice the meat.

[chitowngirl]

They feature the Gut Milk quite a bit…red herring or a clue???

[shapeshifter]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:07 PM, chitowngirl said:

They feature the Gut Milk quite a bit…red herring or a clue???

I assumed it was comic relief, but now that you mention it, does Ursula have a motive for killing Tim Kono?

And now that we know more about Tim Kono, do we have a motive for killing him?

Given that If some higher up muckity mucks likely prevented key evidence from getting where it was supposed to go which effectively shut down the murder investigation, it seems likely that someone's reputation was at stake.

Edited September 26, 2021 by shapeshifter

[cardigirl]

I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here. 

I've been wondering about Zoe and the Hardy Boys for sometime. What we were shown of Zoe was a very self-centered,  spoiled girl who convinced her boyfriend to steal his father's keys (thus putting his job in jeopardy) so they could go into everyone's apartments to pretend to be detectives but in reality they (or maybe it was just Zoe) were stealing items from the apartments. Honestly, nothing I saw of Zoe made me like her and really made me think she was the type of girl the others were just a little bit afraid of. She seemed to have "horned in" on Mabel and Tim's friendship, not sure when Oscar became a part of the group, but probably before Zoe, and I think she jealously made sure she "took control." 

So Oscar and Zoe were a couple, but it was made clear that Oscar had eyes for Mabel (at least at that NYE party) and Tim isn't seen in that interaction. Then, Mabel notices the ring and Zoe says she "found" it. Is it possible that Zoe was involved with something, Tim caught a glimpse of who killed her, and Oscar took the rap to protect someone (his dad or Mabel)? 

But what I really want to ask is why aren't we discussing that Zoe was not a nice person more?  (I'm old so maybe I don't understand how young girls behave.) 

Edited September 23, 2021 by cardigirl

[shapeshifter]

29 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

...I've been wondering about Zoe and the Hardy Boys for sometime. What we were shown of Zoe was a very self-centered,  spoiled girl who convinced her boyfriend to steal his father's keys (thus putting his job in jeopardy) so they could go into everyone's apartments to pretend to be detectives but in reality they (or maybe it was just Zoe) were stealing items from the apartments....But what I really want to ask is why aren't we discussing that Zoe was not a nice person more?  (I'm old so maybe I don't understand how young girls behave.) 

This is all relevant (and should find its way into Cinda Canning's podcast about the podcast, LOL) but I think for our purposes of solving the crime, sometimes a spoiled brat rich girl is just a clueless teen looking for excitement.
Meanwhile, speculation I posted on the current episode thread (https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/122472-s01e06-to-protect-and-serve/?tab=comments#comment-7021477)

Quote

 

At the very end, during the closing credits, we see cartoon portraits of Urusula and someone else, who I think is Oscar's dad. 
What if Zoe stole the big green-stoned ring from Ursula, and it was a gift from Oscar's dad to Ursula, or maybe Oscar's dad just liked Ursula enough to want to get the ring back for her? 
So maybe Oscar's dad and/or Ursula killed both Zoe and Tim Kono for stealing the green ring: 

1. Zoe steals the green ring just because she wanted it
2. resulting in Oscar's father accidentally pushing Zoe off the roof in an effort to get the ring back, which he returns to Ursula,
3. and then Tim stealing it back from Ursula, who shoots Tim? Or maybe Oscar's dad shoots Tim?

This at least explains how Tim's killer was in the building.

But why/who is responsible for the evidence not being sent to the police forensics and IT people? 
Did Detective Williams just make a mistake? I wasn't sure about that.

And is Howard Morris (Dead Cat Guy) just a red herring? 

 

 

[Abra]

29 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

But what I really want to ask is why aren't we discussing that Zoe was not a nice person more?  (I'm old so maybe I don't understand how young girls behave.) 

I've been thinking Zoe's the Lilly Kane of OMITB - I couldn't stand Lilly either, although everyone else seemed to love her. Here, however, we've only gotten a brief glimpse of Zoe so I guess I can understand why few people talk about her, positively or negatively. Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if she's going to be treated as like a coincidental murder that just happens to be tied to Tim Kono's, even though she died first? Like, there should be a "Who is Zoe (Whatshername?)" podcast episode, like there was for Tim. Maybe it will come, and I still won't like her, but now that I think about it it doesn't sit well that the show is paying attention to the male victim and not the teenage girl murder victim. Of course we didn't see the connection between the two until the latest episode, so we'll see.

Sorry, I went off on a slight tangent there :)

[cardigirl]

My other speculation is that we'll find out Tim Kono was a good guy and was protecting Mabel. How I'm not sure, but that interaction where he tells her to act like she doesn't know him seemed to me like he didn't want anyone to connect him with her.   Just a thought.

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

that interaction where he tells her to act like she doesn't know him seemed to me like he didn't want anyone to connect him with her.

I thought that means when Mabel sees him just keep walking because Tim Kono wants nothing to do with her.

Zoe steals the green ring just because she wanted it.

(Insert anybody's name in the building) sees Zoe wearing the green ring which they know belongs to them or someone in their family

After pulling the green ring off Zoe's finger, Zoe falls off the building

Somehow that person is the Shady Black Market Jewelry Fence or sold the green ring to them.

2 hours ago, Abra said:

Like, there should be a "Who is Zoe (Whatshername?)" podcast episode, like there was for Tim. Maybe it will come,

They are running out of episodes, wasting entire episodes on Sting and Detective Williams, we need them to focus on more real suspects.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

I thought that means when Mabel sees him just keep walking because Tim Kono wants nothing to do with her.

Watch his face after she turns away from him. Like one of the Yard Dogs said, things aren't always as they seem. (Maybe.)

[dovegrey]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:58 PM, Kiddvideo said:

I can't figure out who Tim would've seen murder Zoe to make him clam-up and not try to free Oscar. Some sort of authority figure? Other than Zoe's or his parents, I have no idea (and the odds of his parents killing him are...0?) 

Tim must've felt safe moving back into the building, and the most likely scenario I see is that the killer didn't know Tim could identify him, but when Tim lost his job he started blackmailing the killer. (How did Oscar not witness the murder is a question I have, too. He never accused anyone for his defense?)

I've been thinking about this a lot, too, and trying to figure out who would apparently spook Tim so much that he seemingly wouldn't try to help clear his friend. I've been thinking that Tim came back and got into the black market jewelry business to try to find Zoe's killer, but what if Tim killed Zoe that night?

In response to no one:

I'm trying to figure out how the fire alarm/police investigation went. Oscar was going up the stairs during the alarm and he said that he heard the gunshot while the alarm was going off, so nothing had happened before the alarm went off. Even if Oscar killed Tim, he was still going up the stairs DURING the alarm. Someone must have pulled the alarm and then killed Tim, or the alarm was coincidental? Even if the alarm wasn't at all connected to Tim's murder, who directed the police to Tim's apartment to find the body? Someone must have directed the police to Tim's apartment, or else his dead body probably would have stayed there undetected for several days. Did I miss something?

I rewatched the first episode today and find Oliver to be suspicious. He gave an unsolicited, overly-detailed explanation about the packages he received, and then stood in the elevator with those packages as Tim complained about his packages being stolen/misdelivered. Both Tim and Oliver were having extreme and near-identical financial troubles, which seems strange. Oliver could have "poisoned" his own dog by accident (...I can't explain the note on his door, though...unless the scene of him discovering it was him being theatrical and setting the stage for a misdirect), tends to insert red herrings into the case (e.g., Sting, apparently now Teddy), and controls the narrative/writing of the podcast. At the least, I wonder if Oliver and Tim knew each other and were running some sort of jewelry scam?

Despite my misgivings of the show, it sure is a compelling mystery. :)

[grandmabegum]

55 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

(...I can't explain the note on his door, though...unless the scene of him discovering it was him being theatrical and setting the stage for a misdirect)

I hope it's not this. It always bothers me if a character is alone and discovers something that they staged themselves. If that's the case it serves no purpose but to mislead the audience as no other character is there for the misdirect.

The other question I have about Zoe's death is even though Tim says it wasn't Oscar and as far as we know, Tim is the only witness (again, as far as we know] that still doesn't mean that someone didn't see Oscar somewhere else at the party. Sure he could have left for a minute to go to the bathroom or something, but doesn't discount that someone may have seen him. I may have missed something.