Nuclear Family

[DanaK]

Quote

HBO's NUCLEAR FAMILY, a three-part documentary series debuting SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 26 (10:00-11:00 p.m. ET/PT) and airing subsequent Sundays at the same time, follows filmmaker Ry Russo-Young as she turns the camera on her own past to explore the meaning of family. In the late 70s/early 80s, when the concept of a gay family was inconceivable to most, Ry and her sister Cade were born to two lesbian mothers through sperm donors. Ry's idyllic childhood was threatened by an unexpected lawsuit which sent shockwaves through her family's lives and continues to reverberate today. An exploration of love, loyalty, loss and the immutable power of family in all its configurations, NUCLEAR FAMILY eloquently examines the dynamics that enrich and complicate the bonds of love. The series is directed by Ry ("Before I Fall"), an award-winning filmmaker, and produced by Academy Award and Emmy® winner Dan Cogan of Story Syndicate and Warren Fischer. The series will debut on HBO and be available to stream on HBO Max.

 

[EtheltoTillie]

This looks really interesting. 

[peachmangosteen]

 

[Arcey]

Fascinating and thought provoking.  I'm really looking forward to the next episode.

[PurpleFishHead]

Anyone else worried the reason Cade isn't on camera is because she died?

[peachmangosteen]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:05 PM, PurpleFishHead said:

Anyone else worried the reason Cade isn't on camera is because she died?

I didn’t even think about that but I did wonder why she wasn’t there. I assumed maybe she just didn’t want to relive bad memories.

This was really interesting and I look forward to seeing how it shakes out. How many eps are there?

I gotta be honest though, I don’t think I came away from it with as much empathy for the moms as I think I was supposed to.

[DanaK]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I didn’t even think about that but I did wonder why she wasn’t there. I assumed maybe she just didn’t want to relive bad memories.

This was really interesting and I look forward to seeing how it shakes out. How many eps are there?

I gotta be honest though, I don’t think I came away from it with as much empathy for the moms as I think I was supposed to.

3 episodes 

[I Want My MBTV]

On 9/30/2021 at 7:32 PM, DanaK said:

I gotta be honest though, I don’t think I came away from it with as much empathy for the moms as I think I was supposed to

Same and it has nothing to do with them being same sex.  I would have the same issues if a hetero couple used a sperm donner then included him in their lives then one day said "no, you're around too much and getting too close we don't like that".  I actually felt sorry for Tom and that they kept referring to him as "sperm donor".   I get that's how it started and there are certainly many cases where that's all someone is but they reached out to Tom and wanted contact and kept inviting him around and spending so much time.  To me they're the ones that changed the terms of the original agreement not Tom.  Then how they so easily cut out that long time friend of theirs that had helped them because she was "in Tom's camp".   I also think they did play a role in Ry being so angry at Tom even if it wasn't intentional.   I kind of figured since we weren't seeing Tom in present day that he wasn't around any more but I didn't think he would have been sick so early after the court hearing. That made me feel even worse for him the way he kept being referred to as evil and had almost no one speaking on his behalf.  I don't know if he has any living relatives but if he does I'd think they'd take issue.

[DanaK]

4 hours ago, I Want My MBTV said:

Same and it has nothing to do with them being same sex.  I would have the same issues if a hetero couple used a sperm donner then included him in their lives then one day said "no, you're around too much and getting too close we don't like that".  I actually felt sorry for Tom and that they kept referring to him as "sperm donor".   I get that's how it started and there are certainly many cases where that's all someone is but they reached out to Tom and wanted contact and kept inviting him around and spending so much time.  To me they're the ones that changed the terms of the original agreement not Tom.  Then how they so easily cut out that long time friend of theirs that had helped them because she was "in Tom's camp".   I also think they did play a role in Ry being so angry at Tom even if it wasn't intentional.   I kind of figured since we weren't seeing Tom in present day that he wasn't around any more but I didn't think he would have been sick so early after the court hearing. That made me feel even worse for him the way he kept being referred to as evil and had almost no one speaking on his behalf.  I don't know if he has any living relatives but if he does I'd think they'd take issue.

Just to note, I didn't say what you were quoting, @peachmangosteen did

Edited October 5, 2021 by DanaK

[peachmangosteen]

What a sad ep. I continue to not have the good feeling for the moms that I am clearly supposed to have. I felt for them though with Tom having had his lawyer bring in that horribly homophobic stuff at the trial. That's so nasty. But I kind of get it at the same time. I think Tom  must have been really desperate.

I wonder if Tom knew he was HIV+ when he sued? It would make it even more understandable.

I was glad to see Cade in present day. Also, I loved her hair lol. 

[sadie]

Am I supposed to be rooting for the Moms? They come off as so entitled and just mean. They obviously saw some value in having this guy around their kids initially but then when he wanted a more active role they got defensive. The story would had felt better if, after getting his sperm and making it clear he would have no involvement with the child, and then did not allow him into their circle. But they didn’t  do that, they had summer vacations and everyone stayed in the same house and they allowed him to build a bond with their child. It was only when they felt they weren’t 1000% in charge that they threw the guy out and just expected him to go away. That they cut their friend out of their life because they thought she was on “his side” told me all I needed to know. If you contradicted what they wanted in any way you were the enemy not to be tolerated. I really find myself actively rooting against these two and I don’t think that’s what this documentary was supposed to accomplish. They weren’t “pioneers” for gay rights in my opinion. They themselves blurred the lines of these relationships and then got angry when it no longer went their way.

[heatherchandler]

22 hours ago, I Want My MBTV said:

Same and it has nothing to do with them being same sex.  I would have the same issues if a hetero couple used a sperm donner then included him in their lives then one day said "no, you're around too much and getting too close we don't like that".  I actually felt sorry for Tom and that they kept referring to him as "sperm donor".   I get that's how it started and there are certainly many cases where that's all someone is but they reached out to Tom and wanted contact and kept inviting him around and spending so much time.  To me they're the ones that changed the terms of the original agreement not Tom.  Then how they so easily cut out that long time friend of theirs that had helped them because she was "in Tom's camp".   I also think they did play a role in Ry being so angry at Tom even if it wasn't intentional.   I kind of figured since we weren't seeing Tom in present day that he wasn't around any more but I didn't think he would have been sick so early after the court hearing. That made me feel even worse for him the way he kept being referred to as evil and had almost no one speaking on his behalf.  I don't know if he has any living relatives but if he does I'd think they'd take issue.

Oh for sure!  She had fears he would take her from them, she got that from somewhere/someone...

 

[AuntieMame]

On 10/5/2021 at 11:51 AM, sadie said:

Am I supposed to be rooting for the Moms? They come off as so entitled and just mean. They obviously saw some value in having this guy around their kids initially but then when he wanted a more active role they got defensive. The story would had felt better if, after getting his sperm and making it clear he would have no involvement with the child, and then did not allow him into their circle. But they didn’t  do that, they had summer vacations and everyone stayed in the same house and they allowed him to build a bond with their child. It was only when they felt they weren’t 1000% in charge that they threw the guy out and just expected him to go away. That they cut their friend out of their life because they thought she was on “his side” told me all I needed to know. If you contradicted what they wanted in any way you were the enemy not to be tolerated. I really find myself actively rooting against these two and I don’t think that’s what this documentary was supposed to accomplish. They weren’t “pioneers” for gay rights in my opinion. They themselves blurred the lines of these relationships and then got angry when it no longer went their way.

Count me among those who was expecting to “side” with the moms and then didn’t. This is the problem with the alternative ways of quote unquote building a family. Most of them require at least some denial of reality and removal of rights from people who deserve their rights and outright exploitation. I’m including here surrogacy, non traditional and traditional sperm donation, infant adoption and IVF with donor gametes and other forms of reproductive technology. Yeah, I know, I just threw gasoline on a fire, but the children born of these arrangements complain in later years of identity problems just for starters. Identity issues are the tip of the iceberg and gametes and time in the womb and children are things that really shouldn’t be commodified. Some things are gifts and you can’t successfully take someone else’s gift with no consequences. 
The moms really didn’t think things through. I was a little stunned in the first episode when they acted like they were borrowing a cup of sugar. That the man they chose will have zero feelings. And we’re then surprised when a friend close enough that they could ask him for his sperm grew emotionally attached to his daughter? Ry’s anger even decades later illlustrates just how emotional all of this is and was. 
I don’t know what the answers are here and I was expecting to feel umbrage as the two women and their children were attacked but I ultimately feel confused. And sorrier for Tom than I expected. Sorriest of all for Ry even though she would disagree with the reasons for the pity. 

PS The rigidity of if you aren’t for us you’re agin us combined with the absolute lack of thought when planning this didn’t endear the moms to me at all.

PPS The rubber meets the road question here, a question that has cast its shadow since the first test tube baby and the Baby M case is this: Can fatherhood or motherhood be gifted, bought, suborned, stolen or coerced? Can body parts? Can the products of the body (babies, sperm, ova, etc) be transferred and utilized so that relationships heretofore unknown can be created? 
Hmmm, now I’m wishing that the filmmaker would have touched on these more but to do so would have interfered with her agenda. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by AuntieMame
Additions and Subtractions

[rlc]

I seem to be the only one here who doesn’t believe that the moms are in the wrong. I know how hard and challenging custody issues can be in heterosexual divorce- I have been divorced for nine years, and still fear my ex trying to take my kid. These women, regardless of if you find them likable, were dealing with these issues in a time when the courts were most decidedly not on the side of women. They are/were the mothers, and he was a sperm donor. Also, culturally speaking, we always speak of the LGBTQIA community now, but it was decidedly not so back then. In fact, the gay community was often extremely dismissive and disrespectful of the lesbian community. These women created a family in spite of every obstacle in completely uncharted territory, without legal standing as a couple. They did what they had to to protect their family.

[peachmangosteen]

I think it'd be easier to be fully on their side if they weren't the ones that brought Tom into their family. He didn't break the agreement, they did. You can't decide you want him in your kid's life and then be like never mind I don't like it anymore and expect him to just take that.

[heatherchandler]

I am straight up hating the moms.  

[rlc]

Sperm donors aren’t parents, regardless of how kind, charming, or well-intentioned they are. The stress that this family experienced is palpable, and if they didn’t come off as particularly likable because of it, then so be it. This was a landmark case for many families. It’s a hop, skip and a jump from paternity to demanding paternal rights.

[EtheltoTillie]

15 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think it'd be easier to be fully on their side if they weren't the ones that brought Tom into their family. He didn't break the agreement, they did. You can't decide you want him in your kid's life and then be like never mind I don't like it anymore and expect him to just take that.

 

49 minutes ago, rlc said:

Sperm donors aren’t parents, regardless of how kind, charming, or well-intentioned they are. The stress that this family experienced is palpable, and if they didn’t come off as particularly likable because of it, then so be it. This was a landmark case for many families. It’s a hop, skip and a jump from paternity to demanding paternal rights.

 

9 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I am straight up hating the moms.  

I like all these posts, even though they express conflicting sentiments.  This is such a complex human tragedy.  The law does not have good answers for these issues, and the use of the court system added stress. 

[geekgirl921]

I get why they closed ranks. These women were on the cutting edge of LGBQT parenting and there was no protection for them. It was probably exciting but also very scary so when Tom threatened what they had worked so hard to create, they fought it.

[Darian]

1 hour ago, geekgirl921 said:

I get why they closed ranks. These women were on the cutting edge of LGBQT parenting and there was no protection for them. It was probably exciting but also very scary so when Tom threatened what they had worked so hard to create, they fought it.

I'm a lot closer to your take on this. I can't fully understand, being a cis-het woman, but my best friend in high school was a closeted lesbian, who didn't even come out to me until we were both around 30. Actually, it was such an unspoken thing, she never did really come out to me. She just invited me to go stay with her for the weekend and opened the door to introduce me to her girlfriend, arms around each other, and I just acted like you would meeting a dear friend's significant other (except I'm a lot but I possibly overdid it). But I guess that she knew I'd be happy for her and didn't need it said because it was always there in me watching out for her, not bugging her about boys or letting others give her any shit, but carefully, so that I wasn't outing her or doing anything close to that. So, from freshman year of high school, I did what I could for the LGBTQ+ community, which evolved from being a friend to writing to companies that included LGBTQ+ people (not the terminology we used at the time) in their ads, marching if there was something I heard about (pre-internet; I'm old), just what I could here and there. Then in 2002, I moved to Massachusetts, went to grad school in Boston, which was where the marriage equality fight was centered and happening and I became a full-blown activist (as soon as the verdict legalizing marriage equality came out the other side worked hard to get it on the ballot and almost did), working every spare minute for the local LGBTQ+ rights organization. The day marriages began, I got to be there and see couples getting married, some with their adult or younger children at their sides. It was the most beautiful thing I'd seen, except for the angry, screaming protestors. But in that work, I got to talk to couples, some who had been together longer than I'd been alive, and they told me about the fears and uncertainty in wanting or having children, what they had gone through, just so much. That means I couldn't judge anyone in this, and felt sympathy for everyone, and the only anger I had was at society for making it so damn hard for so many people who just wanted to live their lives in peace with the rights they were being denied. 

To me, seems like they allowed him in as a family friend, which meant the possibly impossible condition of him treating both children equally. He could not be parental, could not show a preference. Those were the rules they were adamant about, because both women wanted to be seen as the two parents. It sounds like he just couldn't do it. I don't think anyone set out to hurt anyone, but everyone was in a position they shouldn't have been in. 

Maybe I was superimposing too many people whose stories I heard over the actual people in the documentary, but I just came away feeling for all of them and wishing everyone left peace. 

[sadie]

6 hours ago, rlc said:

Sperm donors aren’t parents, regardless of how kind, charming, or well-intentioned they are. The stress that this family experienced is palpable, and if they didn’t come off as particularly likable because of it, then so be it. This was a landmark case for many families. It’s a hop, skip and a jump from paternity to demanding paternal rights.

But I think “sperm donor” is where they got messed up, sperm donor to me implies we take your sperm and you are done. If that’s what they had done and he came after them then the fight is on BUT they didn’t do that. Those home movies alone show how blurred the moms allowed the relationship to get. I agree with the one friend they extricated when she said they rewrote history to suit their narrative. He was WAY more than a passing family friend that this child occasionally intersected with, they invited him on extended vacations, allowed him way more access to their child than a “friend”. A family friend is some guy you see at the occasional Saturday night dinner party where the focus of the “friendship” is the adults (“okay kids dinner is done you guys can go play in your room while the adults talk”) that is not what they had with him. I get the fight for LGBT rights but these two women IMO wanted it both ways. The vitriol they spoke with when discussing this with their grown daughter who was in tears and in pain and completely denying they downgraded their explanation to her about how much she and this man loved each other was horrible and showed me their true colors. I wonder if Ry purposely showed what hateful jerks her Moms were, there is no way she thinks they came off as likable - no way. Mission accomplished.

[peachmangosteen]

I'm glad this last ep made it clear that we weren't really supposed to just think the moms were right.

I was about to come around to them when I thought maybe they'd admit they didn't do everything right but they didn't really. I get their fear but what they did to Tom is fucked up. And for Russo to still hold such hatred for him is sad. They need therapy.

I'm glad Ry seems to have come to better terms with it. It sucks for her that her moms are still so stringent about it though.

[ShellsandCheese]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:51 PM, sadie said:

Am I supposed to be rooting for the Moms? They come off as so entitled and just mean. They obviously saw some value in having this guy around their kids initially but then when he wanted a more active role they got defensive. The story would had felt better if, after getting his sperm and making it clear he would have no involvement with the child, and then did not allow him into their circle. But they didn’t  do that, they had summer vacations and everyone stayed in the same house and they allowed him to build a bond with their child. It was only when they felt they weren’t 1000% in charge that they threw the guy out and just expected him to go away. That they cut their friend out of their life because they thought she was on “his side” told me all I needed to know. If you contradicted what they wanted in any way you were the enemy not to be tolerated. I really find myself actively rooting against these two and I don’t think that’s what this documentary was supposed to accomplish. They weren’t “pioneers” for gay rights in my opinion. They themselves blurred the lines of these relationships and then got angry when it no longer went their way.

It's even worse because one of their first sources of contention was that they wanted him to treat Riley and Cade equally, because Cade's dad (er, um sperm donor) had addiction issues and was essentially what would call today a deadbeat. So from the beginning they were blurring the lines between just sperm donor and father/father figure. They even wanted him to take on that role for Cade, who was not his child. Also, I think it's hilarious that they wanted someone really good looking to be the sperm donor so the kid could be cute. Tom was really good looking but I don't necessarily think his looks translated well to Riley, lol. I'm glad that Riley though seems to be more empathetic and understanding of why Tom did what he did; her moms on the other hand, certainly know how to hold a grudge. 

I also think the mothers are most responsible for both Riley and Cade feeling traumatized and terrified. Clearly, they poisoned the well; even the fact that Cade thought she was going to be taken away - says a lot. Yikes. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[heatherchandler]

On 10/10/2021 at 5:18 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I think it'd be easier to be fully on their side if they weren't the ones that brought Tom into their family. He didn't break the agreement, they did. You can't decide you want him in your kid's life and then be like never mind I don't like it anymore and expect him to just take that.

I think he was like, wow I am really forming a bond and getting attached to this child.. and it can all be taken away, that scares me.  I just want to be sure I can have a relationship with her, and not get kicked to the side.  With the lawsuit, he was protecting himself.  It’s like the moms didn’t even consider that HE had feelings.  The moms even admitted that Ry did love him, so they lied to the court, like Cris said.  
 

14 hours ago, rlc said:

Sperm donors aren’t parents, regardless of how kind, charming, or well-intentioned they are. The stress that this family experienced is palpable, and if they didn’t come off as particularly likable because of it, then so be it. This was a landmark case for many families. It’s a hop, skip and a jump from paternity to demanding paternal rights.

There should be a middle ground, like how there are grandparent visitation rights in some cases.  Not a full parent and everything that comes with it, but a right to continue a relationship in some form.  I don’t think there is a finite number of people who can love a child, the more love the better.  
 

The lawsuit wasn’t really won because of the truth, the moms were mad so they rewrote history.  They won because they lied (thinking it was best for the family).

Ry went through hell worried she would be “stolen,” when a compromise would have probably been better for HER emotional well-being.  

[truebluesmoky]

I don’t think any of the adults are without responsibility for how sad this situation became, but I do side with the mothers at the end of the day. As a viewer, I think it’s easy to be influenced by the clips we are shown over and over again of Ry with Tom putting on plays and dancing and playing in the ocean, as well as photographs of the two together. It is important to remember that those videos and photos were all taken during approximately three or four vacations. The bond Ry (and Cade too, based on the videos and photos) formed with Tom was certainly real, but her time with him was limited, and he wasn’t part of her day to day life. It was both her moms who were doing the actual parenting and were a constant for her throughout her childhood. They were potty training her and waking in the night with her if she was sick or had a bad dream. They were choosing preschools and scheduling dentist appointments. They were shopping for shoes and clothes and choosing how to discipline. He absolutely may have been important to her, but some of that was likely the magic of this person who came on vacation and then devoted 100% of his time and attention to her. Her moms likely played with her in her day-to-day life but also had to work and pay bills and vacuum the house and cook dinner. Full time parenting is hard as hell. Tom could quite literally be her fairytale prince and make their time together about putting on elaborate make believe movies. That doesn’t make him a person who should suddenly have the right to whisk her away from her actual parents without necessarily even knowing her shoe size or bedtime routines.

It sounded to me like moms DID try to compromise. They didn’t suddenly withhold Ry from Tom. First, they asked him to see her without his partner present. He didn’t like that idea and backed off for a bit, then it sounds like he began to want to see her without her moms there, on his own terms. I 100% support their decision to say no to that. Their compromise was to say that they would accompany Ry so she could meet Tom’s family. It sounds like they continued to keep the option open for Tom to see Ry with them present. That is not unreasonable to me. He’s the one who jumped into the lawsuit because he wanted to be able to see her on his own terms. To me, that is a sign of him not actually being parental. I don’t believe he considered Ry’s feelings and certainly not Cade’s.

If I were the moms, I would have fought the lawsuit too. He was asking to be established as the legal father, giving him equal legal rights to Robin. This doesn’t just mean he secures his right to see Ry. It gives him the right to make medical decisions for her, to have a say in choosing her schools, what religions she would be exposed to, where her moms could move, how she can be disciplined, etc. It would have given him the right to try to make a case for excluding Russo from her life if he decided to say she was a bad influence for some reason. He was never meant to have that role. Did the moms make a mistake by not making sure this was all in writing when he donated his sperm? Absolutely. But this was uncharted territory at the time. Similarly, it was uncharted territory to feel out how much to have the donors in their lives once the girls started asking questions. Robin and Russo absolutely made mistakes, but I understand why they felt the way they did and reacted the way they did when Tom filed the lawsuit. Russo had ZERO legal rights, which must have felt terrifying, and Robin was at risk of having to share her rights with someone who was acting selfish and vindictive. Also, lesbian relationships were absolutely looked down on in society and the court system. Ry was/is THEIR daughter, and Tom should have acknowledged that and continued to see Ry through options the moms continued to make available to him, even if that meant never seeing her on her own and having to see her without his partner. That’s how open adoptions generally work nowadays. The adoptive, legal parents get to set the rules about the parameters within which the birth parents can interact with the child. Tom was certainly a wonderful presence in Ry’s life during those golden years when all was going well, but I believe he ultimately chose his own stubbornness and selfishness over their relationship. He was not a parental figure in the way Robin and Russo were, and they fought to protect their family.

Edited October 12, 2021 by truebluesmoky

[MilkMachine]

I'm a little surprised that, with Russo and Tom both being lawyers, they didn't have some kind of written agreement from the beginning. (Maybe they did and I am forgetting?) I know that sperm donation was virtually unprecedented at the time but you'd think they would have foreseen at least the possibility for a conflict down the line.

[peachmangosteen]

It seems like there was more to Ry and Tom's bond though since they showed that she had sent him letters that said, "I love you Dad."

In general, I don't think Robin/Russo were thinking too much about Ry tbh. I think they were thinking mostly about themselves. They basically said that lol. They tried to tact on it being about the kids but I think their primary problem was that Tom was trying to change what they wanted their family to be and they simply didn't like that. I think Tom was thinking about himself more so than Ry, too.

It's a really sad and shitty story. I came out of it feeling the most for Tom, Ry, and Cade.

[cpcathy]

Interesting how many talk shows, newspaper and magazine articles and even a PBS documentary that the moms had for this story. Made me wonder about their motivations.

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, cpcathy said:

Interesting how many talk shows, newspaper and magazine articles and even a PBS documentary that the moms had for this story. Made me wonder about their motivations.

Yea, that also contributed to me not really being able to be on their side.

[Rowan]

Umm, I’m all over the place with my feelings about this. In the end, though, I sided with the Moms. Good intentions be damned. It got messy and fucked.
 

Just the thought of someone outside my family unit, in my case a traditional hetero married couple with two kids, being allowed to make life decisions for said kiddos inspires fear. I understand the all or nothing play they had to make. But, that’s not to say I don’t understand Tom falling in love with the little girl or discount the mysterious emotional connections that can be immediate simply through biology. 

[Glade]

I found this really interesting; I remember watching the previous documentary back in the late 90's when Ry and Cade were teenagers, and I do appreciate the update.  I do lean on the side of the mom's, in not really feeling comfortable with having Tom bringing Ry and/or Cade to his family reunion and passing them off as his own children.  Was he even out to his own family?  Or was that part of the proposed charade, that he was a straight man raising a child, not the two mothers?  I didn't hear Milton and Jacob being included in that trip either.  So perhaps objecting to this closeted hypocrisy was a part of it, and why Tom scoffed when they said 'yes, she can go, as long as we come too.'   He didn't really want to present them as an unconventional extended queer family himself.   And maybe that is part of the reason why he went on to use hateful lesbophobic stereotypes to win visitation.

The mom's were going into uncharted territory here; everyone knows today that you need iron-clad terms in writing for the sperm donor, or surrogate etc. so things like this can't happen. That they made missteps is perfectly understandable.    I also really liked the end of the third episode, when she confronted her mom's and they ultimately validated her feelings and acknowledged that they hadn't always held space for her,

 

On 10/11/2021 at 2:45 PM, ShellsandCheese said:

It's even worse because one of their first sources of contention was that they wanted him to treat Riley and Cade equally, because Cade's dad (er, um sperm donor) had addiction issues and was essentially what would call today a deadbeat. So from the beginning they were blurring the lines between just sperm donor and father/father figure. They even wanted him to take on that role for Cade, who was not his child.

No, the mom's said that from the very beginning they wanted to de-emphasize which donor produced which daughter because no, the children didn't belong to the donors in any case, and that matches the fact that they were teaching the girls that they were both their mothers, equally, regardless of who gave birth to who.  So this was their policy all along, to de-link these family friend's from the concept of being a psuedo-parent to either child long before one of the donors (not Cade's dad--you don't get to impose those labels on that situation when neither Cade's donor nor Cade herself have used that term) dropped out of the scene because they asked him not to drink around them.   It's perfectly acceptable to ask family friends not to openly favor one of your children over the other when you have two who are so young.   It's also very wrong and destructive for step-parents to to treat 'bio-children' differently from their step-children. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Glade

[MilkMachine]

Despite my mixed feelings about how everything went down (on both sides), one way that I heavily related to the mothers is that there's no way in hell I would put my kid on a plane and send them to the other side of the country to spend a week with another adult. I understand in certain custody situations that's not always preventable. But I could envision my MIL asking for something like that (thankfully she moved closer to us before that ever happened) and that would have been a hell no from me.