S02.E17: The Judgement of the Perilous Captive

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Nancy has Everett exactly where she wants him; Nick receives upsetting news from one of his tenants about the youth centre he wants to open; Carson shares something disturbing with Bess.

Promo:

Original air date: 5/26/21

[akg]

I'm going to need someone to post pictures from that wraith montage. It went by way too fast. 

Carson continues to be the best dad, even when he has no idea what's going on and barely believes any of it.

[secnarf]

I actually loved that all season we have been saying Nancy hasn't been acting like herself, etc etc and it turns out that was all intentional.

I feel like this isn't the end of the Everett Hudson saga and I am not convinced he will actually see jail time.

I am continuing to enjoy the relationship Nancy is building with Ryan, but I do wish they had had more interaction between Nancy and the rest of our main characters (and less Gill Bobbsey). This was the season finale, right? Or is there another episode left?

[akg]

23 minutes ago, secnarf said:

This was the season finale, right? Or is there another episode left?

They said next week is the finale during the 'next time on Nancy...' I knew we only had 2 left before tonight but hearing we're down to 1 made me sadder than I expected. At least they gave us a good reason to rewatch earlier episodes.

[AnimeMania]

That was an excellent explanation of why Nancy was dating Gil Bobbsey.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, Everett definitely has the arrogance of the rich. Even when he's kidnapped, tied up, and accused of murdering his wife, he's fully convinced that he's done no wrong and will somehow get out of the situation.

Even amidst all the death and threats, I loved that this show still made me laugh like when Bess spotted all the photos on the dining room table and assumed that Carson was scrapbooking to calm himself.

Tamura has really grown on me this season, mostly because he's been smart enough to read between the lines and he's come around to realizing that whenever Nancy is doing questionable things, it's usually for a good reason. A few episodes ago when Nancy mentioned that she asked Nick a question because he's a car guy, Tamura seemed insulted. This time around, he asked Nick for his car expertise. Of course, that was thwarted when Nick realized the piece of evidence he was looking at was from Nancy's car and he tried to be as vague as possible which led to Tamura thanking him and then writing down "Nancy's taillight" because it was so obvious that Nick was covering for her. Even though I was obviously rooting for Nancy to get some kind of confession from Everett or any kind of justice, I had to laugh when Tamura called Ryan, knowing that he was with Nancy, and knowing that Nancy had Everett. But my absolute favorite Tamura moment was when he casually strolled in, Everett accused Nancy and Gil of something vague, and Tamura's response was, "Gil who? He said, she said, who knows?"

While I understand why George told Nick that Bess had called about an unspecified emergency so that he could deal with Jake the NIMBY, I don't like that she deliberately lied to him. She knew that Nancy was in trouble. Bess specifically asked George to bring Nick with her. Instead, George shooed Nick away and acted like she didn't know that the emergency had to do with Nancy being in trouble. Not cool, George. The cafe stuff could have waited a day. Nick has the right to make his own decisions based on ALL the available information.

As upset as Ryan was about Celia's death, I was glad to see him set Nancy straight when she said that she was the one who got Celia killed by giving her that list of witnesses. When he said that all this time, people thought that Josiah froze to death outside while he was drunk, all I could think about was The Other Two (if you haven't watched this show, it's hilarious!). I was also glad to see that despite Nancy initially pushing Ryan away after she found out he was her bio dad, she saw what a rough day he had and softened enough to offer to have lunch with him.

Speaking of dads, Carson's absolute faith in Nancy and his determination to save her is the best. Although I can see that the wraith has been affecting her, I think her admission that she didn't feel anything after finally getting Everett is Inigo Montoya syndrome. She's been so focused on that one very specific goal of revenge that actually achieving it feels a little anticlimactic. Hopefully once they remove the wraith next week, she can bask in the triumph of finding the Black Crown tape and relax for a few days before the next supernatural problem rears its head!

Edited May 27, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Jenniferbug]

I'm still picking my jaw up off the floor so I have very little coherent to say.

This show doesn't get enough credit. I know multiple episodes someone has mentioned that Nancy seemed out of character, and now we know- it wasn't shaky writing, it was foreshadowing. 

Ryan and Nancy are developing a really nice relationship. It's nice to see how far Ryan has come and how Nancy has warmed to him being in her life. 

I'm so glad I can go into the finale knowing season 3 is happening! 

[thuganomics85]

Well, it looks like Everett didn't kill Celia after-all, but at least they finally got him on something, as it turns out that the Black Crown tape was of him murdering his brother (who was told died of exposure after getting drunk), and it looks like he won't be able to wiggle his way out of that.  Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if this is far from over.  I don't think think they ever said why he did it, outside of Ryan suggesting it was just another power move.  But I think the even bigger concern is it looks like Celia's death was actually at the hands of this mysterious organization the Drew Crew has been looking into/getting involved with, so if they are capable of doing something like that to the likes of Celia, then well, this could get dicy!

Still, the biggest story here is that we have an explanation for some of Nancy's more questionable decision making lately: the wraith they thought they killed episodes ago has actually been attached to her like a parasite all this time and has been draining her whenever she is vulnerable.  Yeah, that definitely explains a few things.  I especially love the suggestion that the wraith is possibly the reason she is involved with Gil, because, yeah, I would certainly believe that!  But they now only have a few days to fix this, before it kills Nancy!

Nick dealing with and shutting down that close-minded bigot who was trying to prevent his youth center from happening was a nice B-plot.

Hey, Hannah is back!  I guess Carmen Moore was able to take a break from terrorizing Team Flash as Kramer on that show and show back up here for some nice supernatural exposition!

George also finds out that she might only have about a decade to live if they don't figure out this whole Odette situation.  Pesky ghosts!

Both Ryan and Carson had some great moments here.  Good episode for both of Nancy's dads!

Season finale next week!

[quarks]

1. Ok, so my speculation last week that Josiah Hudson is still alive turned out to be completely wrong, but a) at least I was correct that the lingering camera shots and the name dropping was all happening for a reason, and b) given this show, he easily could be a ghost.

2. And I can take credit for correctly guessing that Everett didn't kill Celia. Granted, since everyone else on this forum came to the exact same correct conclusion, I can't exactly give myself all that much credit.

3. Moving on to things in this episode - on the one hand, I felt it kinda sucked that Nick was off dealing with Cafe Tenant Drama while everyone else was zipping around trying to solve mysteries/find Nancy, especially given that Team Drew ended up needing Nick's invention skills to help Nancy in the end, and especially since that partly involved George trying to find a solution for her own issues. On the other hand, this was a nice follow-up to Nick's plots this season - and I loved the solution of, ok, you won't let me build my youth center here? I'll just build it across the street. With the full approval of the local cops. And my own cafe.

That said, while I realize that they are trying to squeeze everything in to make sure that everything this season happened pre-Covid - which, understandable - and that they wanted to wrap up the C plot by the end of the episode - which, again, understandable, especially since I don't think that anyone is going to be overly interested in Nick's tenant issues when Nancy's soul is on the line, and that Nick is rich - how exactly did he manage to buy the building across the street in just one day? One afternoon, really - his initial confrontation with the cafe owner happened in the morning. He then went to the police station while it was still daylight, chatted with Tamura, then came back to chat with the cafe owner once more - presumably early afternoon, since he still had time to build the special camera and have it ready for Nancy after Everett's arrest. 

4. Speaking of things going quickly, though....all that buildup to show Everett as a cunning, intelligent man, and then just a few hours after Gil releases him, he goes straight to where he's hidden the murder video without even suspecting a trap? Geesh. Even I suspected a trap and I'm on record as saying that absolutely no one should trust Gil.

5. Though Gil was a little better this episode.

Not much, but a little. 

6. Really liked Nancy's interactions with both her dads this episode.

7. And Tamura continues to grow on me, what with all the "Ok, yeah, definitely Nancy's taillight," "Ok, let me talk to Nancy," "Ok, let me talk to Everett," "Gil Bobbsey who?"

8. Me, most of this season: WHY IS NANCY WITH GIL?

Show: Foreshadowing!

Me, grudgingly: Ok, then.

9. Other fans, most of this season: Why is Nancy acting like this? It seems so unlike her!

Show: Foreshadowing!

Other fans: YAY!

10. Me, this episode: Should I be worried about the long term status of the Claw, given that apparently only one of the main employees and none of the waitstaff bothered to show up to work in this episode and we now know that there's at least one rival cafe around which now has a serious grudge against one of the owners of the Claw?

Show: Did you miss all of the foreshadowing that we just told you about?

[akg]

43 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if this is far from over.  I don't think think they ever said why he did it, outside of Ryan suggesting it was just another power move

We also don't know why the tape kept coming back every time it was destroyed/thrown away.

[tennisgurl]

Looks like the biggest mystery of the season has finally been solved...Nancy is dating Gil because she has a Wraith stuck to her like the worlds biggest leach. For real though, all season we have been commenting on how Nancy has seemed off sometimes and was acting out of character, and it turns out that it isn't inconsistent writing, its actually all been foreshadowing the Wraith that has been sucking on Nancy's life force and making her increasingly depressed. I am impressed, they actually went and turned what seemed to be poor writing choices into a clever plot twist, kudos show. I never should have doubted you. 

I cant believe we only have one more episode this season, this season has gotten so good, I am going to be so sad not to have it to look forward to for awhile. We finally defeat Everette and send him to jail, but with a creepy smirk to Nancy while being taken away, so I am sure that he will be back again. His "welcome to the family" look at Nancy almost seemed both threatening and approving, like he is still coming for Nancy, but he also thinks she is going to fit into their scheming criminal family just fine. I am not surprised that he didn't kill Celia, a murder that dramatic doesn't seem like his style, but I really should have guessed that it was the sketchy conspiracy group that killed her. It looks like they could be our next non supernatural Big Bad until Everette makes his next move. They have money, resources, and a flair for the dramatic, so while I am normally wary of "shadowy men in dark rooms who control the world" types of plots, as they tend to get boring and convoluted quickly, this show has earned my trust enough that I am interested to see where it goes. 

Nick dealing with a racist who was keeping him from opening up his youth center was a nice subplot, I am always happy to see bigots get taken down several pegs, but I wished that he was around for the main story a bit more, or at least that George didn't downplay the threat so that Nick would go and do his own thing. Its good that he wants him to pursue his dreams and that she supports him doing his own thing, but he should be able to chose whether or not to answer the Bat Signal for the latest supernatural shenanigan. Its not that the café issue couldn't have waited a day, especially because Beth made it sounds pretty serious. Poor George, looks like her ghost problem is just going to get worst. They need to get Odette out of her as soon as possible, hopefully they can help her move on. At least we got to see Hannah. 

Beth thinking that Carson was scrapbooking to calm his nerves was hilarious, I always love Beth and Carson scenes. This was a really good episode for both of Nancy's dads actually. Carson's determination to save Nancy was awesome, even as he doesn't really know much about ghosts and curses, as was him just really trying to be there for her. While the Wraith has been bringing Nancy down, she really has been going through a whole lot lately, even without the Wraith, and he just really wants to help as much as he can, even after their relationship has hit some real rough patches lately. She also had a lot of really good scenes with Ryan, especially when she was feeling guilty about Celia and he gave her a pep talk about how none of this is on her. I really do feel really bad for Ryan, his mom is dead and now he finds out that his father murdered his uncle, its like every time he thinks his horrible father couldn't get any worse, he proves that he can. Its been really nice seeing their relationship grow, Nancy asking Ryan to get lunch really felt earned. Its just one step, but you could tell how much it meant to Ryan that Nancy was reaching out a little bit. Especially considering he has had a really rough day. 

[Lady Calypso]

I'm just laughing at the fact that we can say that the Wraith caused Nancy to date Gil Bobbsey. Seriously, a perfectly reasonable explanation to end that relationship next episode, if they wanted to. 

I will say, I didn't expect that twist. Yet another twist that caught me completely off guard. I just assumed that, with everything that's happened to Nancy this season, it was just getting to her as the episodes went on. It would make TOTAL sense that she'd be off after all the things that have happened to her. I didn't think a supernatural explanation would be in place. But I love it. This show continues to impress me.

I love Carson getting in on the supernatural action. He's been off on the sidelines for so long, so it's nice to see him get a taste of what Nancy and the Drew Crew face so often. Carson's scenes with Bess have been great, because she's been helping him through this supernatural stuff as he has become another support system, of sorts. And his reactions are so fresh and new, while everyone else is pretty much chill about it. Now, if they can get Ryan officially in on the supernatural stuff too, that would be great.

Speaking of Ryan, he got some really great scenes this episode with Nancy. Exploring Ryan and Nancy's relationship this season has been underutilized. It was good to see his full reactions to his mother's death and his father's role in killing Ryan's uncle. Poor Ryan; he's also been dealing with a lot this season. I'm surprised ghosts haven't been attached to HIM yet. 

Tamura seems to be coming around to Nancy. But will he come around to the supernatural? It's funny to see him go from distrusting Nancy to being in on her plans. 

Nick had his own subplot this episode, with dealing with the racist cafe owner. Yuck to his response to Nick wanting to help underprivileged youth. I'm glad Nick put him in his place. That's what it's called to use your wealth for good!

Hopefully, this is the end of Everett Hudson, but probably not. He'll show back up when they least want him to. At least it seems like he's in jail, for now. And I was happy with him being tricked. He should have been smart enough to not run RIGHT for the tape, but I'm happy for any sort of conclusion of this story. And I'm glad they confirmed that The Road Back killed Celia. That sets up the plot for next season. 

So, George supposedly has a decade left, but I bet there's far less time than that. They'll shorten that lifespan for drama...but I don't mind that, because Odette needs to Odexit from George's body sooner, rather than later. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing that I thought was very realistic in this episode was that as much as Ryan wants his father brought to justice for any number of the terrible things he's done, he still draws the line at murdering his own father while Nancy (or at least wraith Nancy) was fine with murdering her own grandfather just to rid society of him. Ryan knows his dad is terrible and is more than happy to see him arrested, but actually killing him is a bridge too far for him, which is a good thing.

[kissedbyarose]

A well thought out show involving the supernatural that uses foreshadowing effectively and managed to surprise more than a few of us for two episodes in a row? And said show is willing to use and follow obvious plot lines (Everette not actually killing Celia, Tamura figuring out pretty quickly what was going on) instead of going for shocking! plots! and intense! cliffhangers! to explore the characters more? 

On the CW? Riverdale (and so many shows before it) wishes. 

I really wish more people knew about this show so of course, they move the show to Fridays next season. 

Great episode, even with some of the missteps others have mentioned. I’ve hand waved bigger ones on worse shows unfortunately. I’m excited for next week but said that the season will be over.

[Cranberry]

It really doesn't matter which day this airs, luckily. The CW doesn't care about live ratings, and the "Friday night death slot" isn't a thing for them anymore. This article is five years old now and a few things have changed (the HBO Max deal is newer and isn't mentioned here, for example), but it gives you the gist.

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Unlike the big four of CBS, ABC, NBC and Fox, The CW is not a network trying to make money on a grand scale off its live viewership. Rather, it was created as a vessel for 1st-run domestic broadcast. Why is that important? Because without somewhere to air first, there’s no way for television studios to achieve the syndication friendly number of 88-episodes necessary for profitable 2nd-tier syndication deals. The CW is a network created with the singular goal of getting the shows of its parent company to syndication qualifying numbers. That’s why most of its programming still runs traditional 22-episode seasons and why there’s never been outside programming from the likes of 20th Century Fox, NBCUniversal and ABC Studios featured on it.

Live viewership matters very little to a network like The CW because that same network is paying very little in licensing fees. To put it in broad terms, selling a show to The CW is similar to just moving money from one's left hand to the right. If the shows are creating buzz and next day viewership, that’s a gain for everyone because it says to after-market and international broadcasters, “people are going to watch this show anywhere they can. It behooves you to take it on for your day-time programming slate.”

Here's an article from a couple years ago explaining how Crazy Ex-Girlfriend survived so long on the network. It's an interesting business model!

[akg]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:17 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Now, if they can get Ryan officially in on the supernatural stuff too, that would be great

Ryan had a few interactions with Dead Lucy so should be willing to believe in the supernatural. He may have convinced himself they didn't happen by now though.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, akg said:

Ryan had a few interactions with Dead Lucy so should be willing to believe in the supernatural. He may have convinced himself they didn't happen by now though.

He also helped when they said they needed a blood relative of Nancy's to do one of the rituals (I think it was the one at the beach to stop the Aglaeca?).

[Simba122504]

I don't understand that haunted murder tape subplot at all. If his dead brother had all of that power,  the tape would have shown up at the police station decades ago. Daddy B said no matter how many times Everrett destroyed the tape, it would come back. And what enity filmed the murder in the first place?  I'm glad both Hudson parents are gone, but now we have to ignore the fact that Nancy has a wealthy biological father who would help her in anyway. The series will still treat her like she has no resources to help with certain problems. Shouldn't Ace know Celia was murdered because of him? I mean he's the reason all of this happened in the first place. I'm not saying it's his fault. I'm saying he should be involved in this storyline. 

[Simba122504]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:22 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Well, it looks like Everett didn't kill Celia after-all, but at least they finally got him on something, as it turns out that the Black Crown tape was of him murdering his brother (who was told died of exposure after getting drunk), and it looks like he won't be able to wiggle his way out of that.  Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if this is far from over.  I don't think think they ever said why he did it, outside of Ryan suggesting it was just another power move.  But I think the even bigger concern is it looks like Celia's death was actually at the hands of this mysterious organization the Drew Crew has been looking into/getting involved with, so if they are capable of doing something like that to the likes of Celia, then well, this could get dicy!

I hate secret organizations /societies on television series. The logic always has to be missing and we have to pretend this powerful group wouldn't just kill the lead and her other powerless friends. The hole also gets bigger and bigger and the writers are known to lose the plot. Put that on Tom Swift's potential show because he's an extremely smart, powerful billionaire. It would be more realistic. 

[waving feather]

The twist of Nancy having a parasite on her will give interesting storyline moving forward but the foreshadowing was not as well done as Celia's death.

Overall, this show does quite well with the plot and the mysteries. But sometimes I do feel it is missing "heart". When Nancy was distraught or crying, I couldn't feel much for her. I'm not sure if it's the acting or the character. Probably the acting. Usually for emotional scenes, my heart goes out to George, Ace and Nick, in that order.

Speaking of Ace, he has been quite absent in the past few episodes. I wonder if the actor was busy with some other work during this time.

[akg]

3 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

And what entity filmed the murder in the first place?

I'd need to rewatch but I was thinking the scene had been caught on a trail or hunting camera (it reminded me of a picture that goes around tumblr of a guy posing in front of a trail cam he'd come across (which I can't find now, of course)). I'm not sure if that theory makes sense with the time/technology though. I'm hoping we get more information on the source and curse.

[Bort]

Daddy Bobbsey said the tape was from a trail cam. 

[Simba122504]

3 hours ago, akg said:

I'd need to rewatch but I was thinking the scene had been caught on a trail or hunting camera (it reminded me of a picture that goes around tumblr of a guy posing in front of a trail cam he'd come across (which I can't find now, of course)). I'm not sure if that theory makes sense with the time/technology though. I'm hoping we get more information on the source and curse.

Ok. Thanks, but I still don't understand the logic behind that haunted VHS tape not being seen until 2019/2020, 30+ years later. The series doesn't take place in 2021. If the tape kept returning no matter what he did. It was a haunted tape and something was behind it being haunted. I'm saying the tape could have easily shown up at the station decades ago instead of haunting Everett since the '80s. It's powerful enough to keep returning no matter what he did to it. 🤔 

[KaveDweller]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:06 PM, Simba122504 said:

Ok. Thanks, but I still don't understand the logic behind that haunted VHS tape not being seen until 2019/2020, 30+ years later. The series doesn't take place in 2021. If the tape kept returning no matter what he did. It was a haunted tape and something was behind it being haunted. I'm saying the tape could have easily shown up at the station decades ago instead of haunting Everett since the '80s. It's powerful enough to keep returning no matter what he did to it. 🤔 

Maybe the haunted tape was just out to torture Everett with it's existence, not get him caught? Constantly being in fear of the haunted tape is possibly worse psychologically than getting sent to prison. That is why some criminals ultimately confess.

That assumes the entity haunting the tape is capable of some pretty advanced thinking.