S13: Korina Emmerich

[Julia]

I certainly agree that the producers manipulate outcomes in favor of drama over talent. Where I differ is that I think that Korina was invited to be on this show for precisely that reason as much as Sandhya was. Her work is pedestrian and boring. The only thing she shows unusual skill at is shit stirring.

[Julia]

She's obviously better trained than Char, and she clearly grew up going to better stocked malls. But, WADR, for a woman with a four year degree in design to be better trained than a woman who taught herself fashion design and construction while working full time as a cosmetologist in one of America's poorest cities is not much of a high bar. I don't think it would have been enough back when this was a design competition and not a plotty reality show. I think Korina slid under the wire because she's telegenic and spiteful.

[Julia]

With all due respect.

I'm not saying that Char is a skilled designer. I've said multiple times that I think her skills are weaker and she has taste issues. I also think Korina has taken her greater opportunities and training and channeled them into being a weak designer who was invited on this show because she's telegenic and she likes to talk trash.

[Julia]

I don't think we're discussing the same thing here. I don't expect Korina to recognize that she's getting a free ride she didn't earn any more than Char does or Sandhya did, and I don't expect her to choose this admittedly trying moment to stop being catty and abusive and narcissistic. I also think attacking Char, who I believe is getting the benefit of the same preferential treatment Korina is, is kind of beside the point. Korina deserved to be at the bottom, and then she threw the do-over.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Julia

[lorikauai]

I don't know. I think Korina should have been eliminated for the ugly green dress, especially after Heidi told her the color was ugly and once she was given the opportunity to buy new fabric she bought the exact same ugly green color. I believe she scraped by that week not due to "talent" but because it was already obvious she was a mega bitch and the perfect villain of the season. So for all of her complaining about Char (and really she acted like a two year old and should be embarrassed) I think she was also saved by producer machinations and due to her character rather than her skill.

[Julia]

So you just don't like her, fine. But she's more of designer than Char is and head-to-head, there's no question of who should have gone home. No sew-off required.

I don't think she's behaved like a likable young woman, no. I also don't think her work has been particularly good, even in this shabby season, and I believe that the reason she was chosen and then lasted as long as she did is that she's telegenic and talks trash.

[lorikauai]

Meh. There have been how many seasons of PR that show the best designer doesn't always win? It still doesn't excuse her behavior.

[Surrealist]

If Korina in some weird way was trying to defend her talent and was alluding to the competition being more about drama, then she played right into the producers' hands. Her criticism is a worthy one because I couldn't care less about the drama. I'd rather have the show focus on the actual competition and talent.

 

Korina's a more talented designer than Char is. However, Julia was wise to bring up the fact that Korina has had better resources when it comes to her design education and career.

 

The fact that Korina spoke the truth about being a better designer than Char and many of the others isn't the problem. It's the way she carried herself in the THs and toward the other designers and even the judges. Competitions like these aren't going to be 100% fair. Life isn't 100% fair. Acting gracefully win or lose is the better strategy. Few people are going to sympathize with the angry and bitter contestant.

 

The problem with complaining is that even if you're right, in almost every case, you'll wind up making yourself looking worse. That's what happened to Korina.

[ShellSeeker]

The more I think about it, the more I think that the green dress fiasco perfectly encapsulates the most significant of Korina’s problems. She was supposed to be designing a look for Heidi. During the critique, Heidi said flat-out that she hated everything about Korina’s dress, especially the color. Korina was given a reprieve in the form of another trip to Mood, and what does she do? Pick a different fabric, but in the same color Heidi said she didn’t like, and then proceeded to make almost the same dress again.

 

A designer with a modicum of common sense, who wasn’t completely convinced of her superiority over everyone else (including Heidi, it seems) would have taken some time to regroup and come up with another idea. Not Korina. No, she’s so convinced that she’s right and everyone else is wrong that she believes all she has to do is declare something to be brilliant and everyone will fall into line and agree with her, thereby keeping her view of herself intact. She completely missed the bigger point – that she wasn’t being critiqued by Heidi the judge, she was being critiqued by Heidi the client. If your client says they hate what you’re making for them, then you need to extract your head from your posterior, scrap what you’ve done so far, and take a different approach. Korina (and everyone else) was provided with a portfolio of looks Heidi had worn to different events. Someone as gifted and talented as Korina thinks she is would have used that to come up with another idea – at the very least, a better color.

 

She is completely incapable of handling any kind of criticism of her work, which will be her undoing in the end. Criticism is hard to hear. No one wants to be told that their work is substandard or that they’re doing a bad job. But it can be so valuable and the people who view it as an opportunity for growth and improvement are far more successful than the ones who just whine about the unfairness of it all. I was in a meeting once a couple years ago, and an executive level person said something I’ll never forget: Feedback, even negative feedback, is a gift, and you should treat it as such. Not always an easy task, but so, so true.

[RealityGal]

So you just don't like her, fine. But she's more of designer than Char is and head-to-head, there's no question of who should have gone home. No sew-off required.

And yet Korina has been in the top and even won challenges. Char has not. There's a reason there was value in keeping Korina (beyond attitude), she produced decent work. Char has done nothing notable. Like TLo said, what we've seen has been discount retail.

Heidi says it all the time "one day you're in, the next, you're out"  While I may not always understand the judges (I thought Emily's top was awful, and thats just real talk), it is their opinion that matters.  They didn't like Korina's and they didn't like Char's.  I guess they disliked them pretty much equally.  If each challenge is its own, and the decision to stay in or out are based on that challenge alone, and they didn't like Korina's or Char's then it seems fair to me.

 

I could understand the decision, Korina's outfit was ugly, Char's outfit was ugly.  While Char hasn't won a challenge, she has been in the top three.  I don't think Fade won a challenge, but I still think he is a hugely talented designer.

 

So, I'm not sure that winning a challenge proves that someone is the better designer.

[Gumby]

The spirit behind the one-shot Gunn save is understandable - but could and should be done without the Designers' knowledge.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Gumby

[RealityGal]

Of course she likes to talk trash, but the talking head sessions are also designed to encourage/promote/elicit trash talk.

 

It would be one thing if the "Tim Gunn Save" came with the disclaimer that the designer chosen to receive it has immunity from elimination until the finals. It's only, officially, two seasons old, but sure, any designer on this season had to know the concept of the TGS existed and that it might be used for them or to help someone they didn't like.

 

Unfortunately, it has become - in only two seasons of official use - the Tim Gunn Feels Sorry for You and Wants You at Fashion Week Save. And I don't fault any designer this season for being pissed, or shocked, or surprised, or livid by that realization. I have no doubt Korina was calling everyone out over the shenanigans, but as TLo said, the editors weren't going to leave *that* in. Because they saw that their trash talker had given them highly editable gold and they could, yet again, manipulate viewers into hating their designated "villain" and making a case for the audience to root for Char - because otherwise, if you didn't hate Korina so much based on how they presented her (and there's no doubt that was heavy editing to make all of Korina's rage appear directed at Char), you'd be going, "She has a point." 

 

Someone at TLo had a good comparison for why Korina had a right to be upset. It's one thing to know you're on, essentially, a game show. Just like on traditional game shows, contestants/designers go on with their "personalities" in tow, be it hothead, weepy, unicorn believer, what have you.

 

It's another, though, to get glimpse of - for example - a producer behind the Big Wheel on the Price is Right, ensuring it stops on $1.00 for one particular contestant, or a competitor on Jeopardy! being given all the answers halfway through the show, and being asked to be okay with that fact. What's been going on with Char goes over and above what any reasonable competitor could have expected. It was infuriating simply as a detached viewer. Being the person who was there, seeing it first-hand, already stressed to the hilt by the no sleep, the compressed challenges, the tiny living quarters - it doesn't surprise me at all they'd blow up like Korina did. And I don't fault her for it one moment. 

 

But they all know the TG save is there.  As for Justin, Tim clearly saw something that I didn't see.  Justin showcased his talent after the TG save, and his collection was beautiful.  So, at least the first TG save, I think was a success, because I think Justin proved to be a talented designer in his own right.  I think he got to fashion week on his own steam, and I don't think he was given much of any help after the save.  The only thing I think it really changed for him was that he felt a little more beholden to TG and so he really would listen to TG's advice.  

 

And since this is the second time its been used, we don't really know what the TG save means.  I thought Justin showed his talent and I became happy that TG used the save on him.

 

I normally understand blaming editing, but when they are sitting, right there in the room and she is making those comments in front of Char, in front of everyone, the comments seem directed at Char.  Especially when you see the whole "I'm talking to everyone else" routine to try to talk about one person.  The whole "can anyone even believe I'm in this position" comment was said right in front of Char, but "to the group."  And then she said things directly to Char. Char asked her something like "well, are you mad at me?" to which Korina angrily replied "you shouldn't even be here."  And after that Char basically told her to go kick rocks.  And when you're directing a comment at someone and basically telling them that they don't deserve to be there, it does seem to be a lot about that person, so IMO, her comments were about Char.

 

I do fault Korina, people are under much more stressful circumstances and manage to hold it together.  There really was no excuse for that sort of behavior.  I wouldn't want to work with someone who responds to stress by lashing out at everyone.

 

 

I don't think we're discussing the same thing here. I don't expect Korina to recognize that she's getting a free ride she didn't earn any more than Char does or Sandhya did, and I don't expect her to choose this admittedly trying moment to stop being catty and abusive and narcissistic. I also think attacking Char, who I believe is getting the benefit of the same preferential treatment Korina is, is kind of beside the point. Korina deserved to be at the bottom, and then she threw the do-over.

 

 

I don't know. I think Korina should have been eliminated for the ugly green dress, especially after Heidi told her the color was ugly and once she was given the opportunity to buy new fabric she bought the exact same ugly green color. I believe she scraped by that week not due to "talent" but because it was already obvious she was a mega bitch and the perfect villain of the season. So for all of her complaining about Char (and really she acted like a two year old and should be embarrassed) I think she was also saved by producer machinations and due to her character rather than her skill.

 

This is all true.  Korina has gotten more time on the show than she should have because of the producers and their tricks.  She should have been out on that green dress.

[ChelseaNH]

So the choice is "Korina is a mouthy bitch with an exaggerated sense of entitlement" or "Korina got shafted by the producers in favor of Char"?

 

Porque no los dos?

[Julia]

So the choice is "Korina is a mouthy bitch with an exaggerated sense of entitlement" or "Korina got shafted by the producers in favor of Char"?

 

Porque no los dos?

 

I think Korina shafted herself, honestly. The case she made for herself was that if Char hadn't gotten saved she wouldn't have been there to compete with Korina at the bottom. That really doesn't make any sense. If Char hadn't gotten saved, Korina would have still been at the bottom, and she still would have had to compete with someone to stay. It just might have been harder, because a stronger competitor probably would have made a better initial piece and might not have let Sean shape their follow up piece as much as he did.

 

As it is, Char didn't beat Korina, Korina did, JMO. If she hadn't been argumentative and questioned the judges' taste and judgment on the runway, and if she'd spent the hour making a simpler, more graceful dress instead of choosing  awkward fabrics and trying for color blocks so she could flip Nina off, and if she hadn't explicitly told the judges that her follow up dress wasn't as good as the dress that put her on the bottom, she could very easily have stayed.

[ChelseaNH]

I think Korina beat Char in the initial runway competition and got shafted when the judges pretended that it was just too hard to decide between the bottom two.  They always say it's so hard to decide and still manage to make a decision.  The judges didn't ask the producers if they could have a knockout round; the producers decided it was time for a "shocking twist."

 

Korina's not nearly as great a designer as she thinks she is, but she has generally done better work than Char and she did better work than Char this time around.

[RealityGal]

I think Korina beat Char in the initial runway competition and got shafted when the judges pretended that it was just too hard to decide between the bottom two.  They always say it's so hard to decide and still manage to make a decision.  The judges didn't ask the producers if they could have a knockout round; the producers decided it was time for a "shocking twist."

 

Korina's not nearly as great a designer as she thinks she is, but she has generally done better work than Char and she did better work than Char this time around.

I don't know, taking all things into account they were both pretty bad.  Korina's had a lot of styling issues, the makeup was wrong, it was a very very dated look, and then she had the hat.  Then there was the cape, which initially wasn't bad, but the neck with the buttons (I think it was part of the cape) looked messy, and then you have this grey fabric cape, which looks dreary, then another red pattern on the skirt, and then some boots.  The skirt wasn't bad, the green color for the top, or something about the green top with that red skirt just looked like Christmas circa 1984.  Char's was bad, but there was better styling.  The dress was simple and hoochie, but the little jacket was a good idea.  The piece was overall more cohesive with the other pieces in her collection.  I also think she used an unconventional material, in that the screen wasn't really fabric like, whereas a table runner is.  Like it or not, the judges always appreciate the unconventional materials transformation. Look at how wild they were over Sean's use of the lamp shade in the coat, and Kini's soccer ball dress.  And Char's was at least somewhat current.  I agreed with Nina, I thought Emily/Korina had very dated looks.

 

And even if it was producer manipulation, and a producer decision.  It is what it is, the best thing to do is recognize you're being given another chance and attack it.  The worst thing you could do is exactly what Korina did, freak out, whine, and then produce the worst looking dress because you believe you're so above it all.  People have to deal with unfair things in life all the time, I didn't think this was that unfair, or even unfair at all.  The funny thing is, Korina should have embraced it, because the person who had the disadvantage going into the one hour sew off was Char.  Char can barely cobble together a look with an entire day.  Char should have been the one with the bad, defeatist attitude.  But if Korina wants to go on about how much of a better designer she is, she should have designed a better dress easily.  She should have been able to put her money where her mouth was, but she couldn't.  Given what should have been an easy opportunity to knock out a person she has said over and over is so much weaker a designer, she instead fucked it up.

 

And thats on her, so Korina can suck it.

Edited October 4, 2014 by RealityGal

[ratgirlagogo]

 

 the person who had the disadvantage going into the one hour sew off was Char.  Char can barely cobble together a look with an entire day.  Char should have been the one with the bad, defeatist attitude.

I agree with  most of your post except for this.  Char benefited a great deal from having Sean as her helper and I believe he did most of the construction.  Having said that, yes, I agree that a stinky attitude is just going to bite you in this ass in this situation and Korina's was the stinkiest.

[lorikauai]

I do agree that Korina shot herself in the foot. If she hadn't had the attitude and badmouthed Sean and Char before the judges even started deliberating she might not have even found herself in that position. Maybe they would have skipped the 1 hr challenge. How hard would it have been to say "I am proud of what I accomplished but I appreciate the feedback."

[RealityGal]

I agree with  most of your post except for this.  Char benefited a great deal from having Sean as her helper and I believe he did most of the construction.  Having said that, yes, I agree that a stinky attitude is just going to bite you in this ass in this situation and Korina's was the stinkiest.

I understand that Sean was a benefit to Char, but both designers were given a helper.  I think Emily is just as proficient as Sean.  So Team Char by all accounts had two people who could design, and only one that could construct/sew.  Team Korina has two people that could both design, sew and construct.  So Korina still had a big leg up on Char.  I mean, I would totally agree if Char had gotten Kini, I think he is on another level, but I think Emily and Sean are evenly matched.

[auntlada]

Korina's had a lot of styling issues, the makeup was wrong, it was a very very dated look, and then she had the hat.  Then there was the cape, which initially wasn't bad, but the neck with the buttons (I think it was part of the cape) looked messy, and then you have this grey fabric cape, which looks dreary, then another red pattern on the skirt, and then some boots.  The skirt wasn't bad, the green color for the top, or something about the green top with that red skirt just looked like Christmas circa 1984.  Char's was bad, but there was better styling.

 

When Amanda says you have too much going on, you've got too much going on.

 

I thought it was amusing, though, when Korina was complaining about having to do the one-hour dress and said she should have been judged on her first look in the three-piece collection. I wanted to tell her, "You were judged on that look, honey. They hated it." Why she tried something so complicated with so many pieces, I don't know. The smartest thing Char did -- and it was her, not Sean -- was pick an easy fabric to work with. Korina could have done that. If she hadn't been so tied to black and white, she could have picked out a better fabric -- unless, of course, she's picked difficult fabrics all season, which could explain why she always seems to have so much trouble finishing (as far as I remember). I do think she's picked a lot of ugly fabrics, but apparently she thinks they're the best because everything she does is the best.

 

I agree she should have been gone in episode 5 when she made the hideous green dress that was not emerald, was not something the client (Heidi) said she liked and wasn't even sewn well. It was a simple, simple dress, and it looked like something I might have sewn in seventh-grade home ec class.

 

Also, don't roll your eyes when the judges (your boss, your client, whoever is in charge) is giving you criticism even if you disagree with it. Clearly, her mother never had the don't-roll-your-eyes-at-me-missy talk with her.

[KimberStormer]

I KNEW IT!!

I knew this Korina edit was going somewhere.  I said it in the second episode thread, I think, if not the first.  I knew it I knew it I knew it.  Lately I have been thinking about how the future can alter the past, like in Borges's essay "Kafka and His Precursors" or that amazing bizarre nerd superstition called Roko's Basilisk.  This theme keeps coming up in my life recently.  And while I guess it's no different from any work of art, it feels weirdly counterintuitive in reality TV editing.  Surely they show you the most important things that happened during the time the episode takes place, you think.  It feels like each episode should be its own discrete thing, OR, since the show is filmed as we all live, forward through time, that one episode should build on the last, and storylines evolve progressively.  But of course this is not how it works, there is an ending and they must edit toward it regressively; I sort of imagine them editing backwards, placing the pieces in the past which they will manipulate in the future...  Actually I think PR season one is one of the most beautiful examples of the reality editor's art, taking Jay, who never won a challenge, and slowly, subtly, making him the most real, most human member of the cast, so without even meaning to you were rooting for him in the end.

 

The thing about Korina was she never, to my mind, did or said anything out of the ordinary for PR contestants.  I kept waiting for it, because the editing absolutely hammered her in a way I can't remember ever seeing before.  It was an outrageous edit, absolute character assassination edit.  Yes yes she said all those mean things, she's got opinions, she's arrogant, but did she really smile those evil smiles when people were criticized, did she really roll those petulant eyes when people were praised?  Did anyone else get every single mean thing they ever said highlighted as brightly as she did, saying "LOOK AT THIS OBNOXIOUS PERSON ISN'T SHE OBNOXIOUS!"  So, I thought, there must be something this is leading to.  It was absolutely out of the question that this was just what made sense to air each episode, it couldn't possibly be.  What would it be, I wondered?  Would she pull a Sandro/Ken meltdown or physical altercation?  Was she going to quit?  Was she going to eliminated in some complete bullshit fashion that would have the fans rioting in the streets if they weren't carefully made to hate her the entire seasong long?

 

I don't even think this episode is it, the reason why they did this edit.  I think it's next episode, when they pull their favorite trick out of the button bag one too many times: pairing up people for "maximum drama" because for some reason they think that's what we want to see.  Does anyone here actually want to see that?  Anyone?  But I can see the cold faces of the producers watching the dailies, saying, "if she wants to burn her bridges with us, fine.  Let's she how she likes it when we burn back."

 

Anyway.  It was painful for me to watch her in the workroom during the one-hour thing, because it was like watching a terrible part of myself on TV.  I've been there, I do that too.  When I'm exhausted and hungry and then I feel like something unfair is happening to me, I start logorrheally pouring out complaints and anger into the world, taking it out on anyone, attacking everything, just burning it all down.  It's like some animal release, it's hard to stop once it gets started.  It's happened to me maybe three or four times?  Hardly ever, but I remember each time with a sinking guilt.  It's actually one reason I would never apply to be on one of these shows.  It's ugly coming from Korina and it would be ugly coming from me.

 

I was in a meeting once a couple years ago, and an executive level person said something I’ll never forget: Feedback, even negative feedback, is a gift, and you should treat it as such. Not always an easy task, but so, so true.

 

Ahaha that is exactly the kind of thing an executive level person would say.

Edited October 4, 2014 by KimberStormer

[RealityGal]

I KNEW IT!!

I knew this Korina edit was going somewhere.  I said it in the second episode thread, I think, if not the first.  I knew it I knew it I knew it.  Lately I have been thinking about how the future can alter the past, like in Borges's essay "Kafka and His Precursors" or that amazing bizarre nerd superstition called Roko's Basilisk.  This theme keeps coming up in my life recently.  And while I guess it's no different from any work of art, it feels weirdly counterintuitive in reality TV editing.  Surely they show you the most important things that happened during the time the episode takes place, you think.  It feels like each episode should be its own discrete thing, OR, since the show is filmed as we all live, forward through time, that one episode should build on the last, and storylines evolve progressively.  But of course this is not how it works, there is an ending and they must edit toward it regressively; I sort of imagine them editing backwards, placing the pieces in the past which they will manipulate in the future...  Actually I think PR season one is one of the most beautiful examples of the reality editor's art, taking Jay, who never won a challenge, and slowly, subtly, making him the most real, most human member of the cast, so without even meaning to you were rooting for him in the end.

 

The thing about Korina was she never, to my mind, did or said anything out of the ordinary for PR contestants.  I kept waiting for it, because the editing absolutely hammered her in a way I can't remember ever seeing before.  It was an outrageous edit, absolute character assassination edit.  Yes yes she said all those mean things, she's got opinions, she's arrogant, but did she really smile those evil smiles when people were criticized, did she really roll those petulant eyes when people were praised?  Did anyone else get every single mean thing they ever said highlighted as brightly as she did, saying "LOOK AT THIS OBNOXIOUS PERSON ISN'T SHE OBNOXIOUS!"  So, I thought, there must be something this is leading to.  It was absolutely out of the question that this was just what made sense to air each episode, it couldn't possibly be.  What would it be, I wondered?  Would she pull a Sandro/Ken meltdown or physical altercation?  Was she going to quit?  Was she going to eliminated in some complete bullshit fashion that would have the fans rioting in the streets if they weren't carefully made to hate her the entire seasong long?

 

I don't even think this episode is it, the reason why they did this edit.  I think it's next episode, when they pull their favorite trick out of the button bag one too many times: pairing up people for "maximum drama" because for some reason they think that's what we want to see.  Does anyone here actually want to see that?  Anyone?  But I can see the cold faces of the producers watching the dailies, saying, "if she wants to burn her bridges with us, fine.  Let's she how she likes it when we burn back."

 

Anyway.  It was painful for me to watch her in the workroom during the one-hour thing, because it was like watching a terrible part of myself on TV.  I've been there, I do that too.  When I'm exhausted and hungry and then I feel like something unfair is happening to me, I start logorrheally pouring out complaints and anger into the world, taking it out on anyone, attacking everything, just burning it all down.  It's like some animal release, it's hard to stop once it gets started.  It's happened to me maybe three or four times?  Hardly ever, but I remember each time with a sinking guilt.  It's actually one reason I would never apply to be on one of these shows.  It's ugly coming from Korina and it would be ugly coming from me.

 

 

Ahaha that is exactly the kind of thing an executive level person would say.

 

Here is the thing.  I would have totally found a place in my mind to accept "unfair edit" if it had just been TH's and misplaced looks.  I felt that a lot of that in the "Amanda vs. Char/Korina" thing.  I felt like the editors may have pieced together random looks.  As for the TH's, we really don't know what anyone else said, how long these interviews are and what they cherry pick to choose.  Yes, Korina chose to say those things, so she can't complain when the air them.  

 

I would have accepted unfair edit until 1) she decided to post something on Facebook that was right in line with her being a classless bitch (and I know MV on that, but thats my POV) and 2) she behaved that way in the workroom and the stew room/green room towards Char and 3) her behavior on the runway.  That not an unfair edit, thats what she did and thats how she behaved, and thats who she is.  No one made that up, no one manufactured that, it was all her.  Char was facing the same situation, and an even worse situation, and she didn't break down, she barely broke a sweat.

 

And if she has those anger issues, she needs to work on those, because the world is sometimes an unfair place.  I think Char has probably also faced a ton of unfair situations in life, Detroit is economically depressed and crime ridden.  Have you ever heard her whine that its so unfair that everyone else has the advantage of design school?  How its unfair she has to design something in an hour, when its difficult for her to design something in a day?  Fashion is subjective, and just as easily Char could have started to whine that her stuff was much better than Korina's and she shouldn't have to be involved in this sew off.  Both outfits were ugly, Korina's look like Christmas in a Dallas episode in 1982 and Char's jacket was weird and her dress was too short/tight.  "Because I was mad" isn't really a good excuse for her behavior, she isn't a 10 year old child, she is a 28 year old adult, so should be beyond acting out, even if she is hungry and tired.  Everyone is hungry, tired and stressed.

 

And I might even accept that she just had a moment, where she snapped.  But the difference between you and Korina is that you felt bad when you think back on how you behaved.  And when I've behaved like that, I've felt bad as its been happening too, and once its over, 5 minutes later I wish I could time machine myself back and I would act so much better.  But Korina has another chance to come back the next day and have a "do over" and it doesn't look like she takes that opportunity to behave any better, which tells me, that this is just who she is.  And she isn't like you, and you aren't like her.

 

And if she wanted to fuck over the producers, she would graciously accept coming back and graciously help Char, not only would that help to repair the damage she has done to her reputation, smooth over the feathers she ruffled by acting like a bitch, but it would fuck with the producers plan.  If she is going to play the "production manipulated me route" shouldn't she realize that its clearly producer manipulation to put her with Char and not play into their hands?

Edited October 4, 2014 by RealityGal

[Julia]

@kimberstormer, I've thought a few times this season that they were concentrating all the attention they did on the Korina drama and the Sandhya drama to make Amanda look good by comparison. I truly don't buy that even in the sad group the public got to vote for Amanda was ever a fan favorite (except possibly among bloc-voting Maroon 5 fans), and they only ever seem to have her on to talk trash about the villain of the week. Definitely a let's forget that other season, m'kay? edit.

[slensam]

I KNEW IT!!

I knew this Korina edit was going somewhere.  I said it in the second episode thread, I think, if not the first.  I knew it I knew it I knew it.  Lately I have been thinking about how the future can alter the past, like in Borges's essay "Kafka and His Precursors" or that amazing bizarre nerd superstition called Roko's Basilisk.  This theme keeps coming up in my life recently.  And while I guess it's no different from any work of art, it feels weirdly counterintuitive in reality TV editing.  Surely they show you the most important things that happened during the time the episode takes place, you think.  It feels like each episode should be its own discrete thing, OR, since the show is filmed as we all live, forward through time, that one episode should build on the last, and storylines evolve progressively.  But of course this is not how it works, there is an ending and they must edit toward it regressively; I sort of imagine them editing backwards, placing the pieces in the past which they will manipulate in the future...  Actually I think PR season one is one of the most beautiful examples of the reality editor's art, taking Jay, who never won a challenge, and slowly, subtly, making him the most real, most human member of the cast, so without even meaning to you were rooting for him in the end.

 

The thing about Korina was she never, to my mind, did or said anything out of the ordinary for PR contestants.  I kept waiting for it, because the editing absolutely hammered her in a way I can't remember ever seeing before.  It was an outrageous edit, absolute character assassination edit.  Yes yes she said all those mean things, she's got opinions, she's arrogant, but did she really smile those evil smiles when people were criticized, did she really roll those petulant eyes when people were praised?  Did anyone else get every single mean thing they ever said highlighted as brightly as she did, saying "LOOK AT THIS OBNOXIOUS PERSON ISN'T SHE OBNOXIOUS!"  So, I thought, there must be something this is leading to.  It was absolutely out of the question that this was just what made sense to air each episode, it couldn't possibly be.  What would it be, I wondered?  Would she pull a Sandro/Ken meltdown or physical altercation?  Was she going to quit?  Was she going to eliminated in some complete bullshit fashion that would have the fans rioting in the streets if they weren't carefully made to hate her the entire seasong long?

 

I don't even think this episode is it, the reason why they did this edit.  I think it's next episode, when they pull their favorite trick out of the button bag one too many times: pairing up people for "maximum drama" because for some reason they think that's what we want to see.  Does anyone here actually want to see that?  Anyone?  But I can see the cold faces of the producers watching the dailies, saying, "if she wants to burn her bridges with us, fine.  Let's she how she likes it when we burn back."

 

Anyway.  It was painful for me to watch her in the workroom during the one-hour thing, because it was like watching a terrible part of myself on TV.  I've been there, I do that too.  When I'm exhausted and hungry and then I feel like something unfair is happening to me, I start logorrheally pouring out complaints and anger into the world, taking it out on anyone, attacking everything, just burning it all down.  It's like some animal release, it's hard to stop once it gets started.  It's happened to me maybe three or four times?  Hardly ever, but I remember each time with a sinking guilt.  It's actually one reason I would never apply to be on one of these shows.  It's ugly coming from Korina and it would be ugly coming from me.

 

 

Ahaha that is exactly the kind of thing an executive level person would say.

I don't even like Korina but this is definitely a shenanigans type situation in my mind. They want a stereotypical black hat /white hat scenario. Great. How boring. I know that I couldn't be on one of these types of shows. Korina probably can't either. I always thought she was kind of brittle and ready to crack. Sympathy for the "devil", I guess.

[Beden]

 

Why she tried something so complicated with so many pieces, I don't know.

It was a fuck you to the judges.

[auntlada]

Worked out well for her, then.

[Beebee111]

 

Sorry, I don't know what "WADR" stands for.

And if Korina got in for being "telegenic and spiteful," then Char got in on a pity vote. What does working full time as a cosmetologist in one of America's poorest cities have to do with her ability to be a designer? Zilch. This isn't Project Full Time Cosmetologist in One of America's Poorest Cities. If it were, that might be a valid point.

 

I think Sean made the point perfectly, being successful on project runway is not just about being a "talented designer." A huge part of it is being a speedy and efficient seamstress and being able to sew complex patterns in short periods of time. Sean acknowledged that while Char has got great design ideas, she cannot sew as well as the others. Training and exposure has got everything to do with developing good sewing skills. Having said that, it doesn't change what the end product is that you are judged on and yes - Korina is a better seamstress than Char. I'm not sure about the "talent" bit though.

 

YMMV but for me extending respect and courtesy to others (IMHO being a decent human being), is a prerequisite for me wanting to hand over my money to you for a product/service regardless of how "talented" you are. Of course, there's producer manipulation BUT Korina certainly gave them a lot of material to work with. Char can get training and develop better sewing skills. I'm not sure Korina, with her lack of self-awareness, can develop a better personality.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Beebee111

[Beden]

 

Char can get training and develop better sewing skills. I'm not sure Korina, with her lack of self-awareness, can develop a better personality.

And thus the reason why there are (so far) 7 pages of conversation about how heinous a person she presented herself to be.

[bourbon]

I just don't buy the "edit" angle, and I never have when it comes to reality programming.  True, the editors can choose the ten worst things you said in a given day and make you look like you're wall to wall venom-spewing.  They can piece together eye rolls and smirks that make it look like you were reacting brattily to something that you weren't actually reacting to. But it can't make you seem like that much of a shittier person than you are.  A reality show producer is like booze.  It's going to probably bring out more of what you already are and not turn you into something you're not.  And Korina's an angry drunk.  But then...I think she should have gone home for the awful "emerald green" dress.

[auntlada]

 A reality show producer is like booze.  It's going to probably bring out more of what you already are and not turn you into something you're not.

 

The best descriptions I've heard came from Amazing Race contestants. One said they can't show what you don't do: "It's not Pixar." I wish I could remember which one, but I can't, and the TWoP forums are gone so I can't search for it. I think it was Oswald, Danny, Ken or Gerard, but I'm not sure. Another (possibly Josh from season 4) said they can't make you something you aren't, but they can show only one side of you, making you something of a caricature.

 

Either way, I'd say this is who Korina is. It might not be all of who she is, but it's at least part of who she is. (I think it's a large part of who she is because I think who you really are tends to come out more strongly when you are under stress, which is why I don't want people to see me on reality TV. It would not be pretty.)

 

ETA: Checked with the former Miss Alli (Linda Holmes), and it was Oswald who said, "It's not Pixar."

Edited October 4, 2014 by auntlada

[Nixtehoeve]

So glad this arrogant girl is out! I hope she realises it it bad for bussiness to talk behind someones back in such an evil way. Clients cannot trust this woman

[KimberStormer]

I'm not saying, just to be clear, that "it's all editing".  I am saying she is a jerk, but no more so than 60% or more of PR contestants.  While yes, I do think they almost certainly have created some of the subtlest and therefore most insidious bitchery through editing, obviously she said all that she said, and some of it has been fairly obnoxious and/or arrogant.  I am certainly not trying to dismiss the fact that she was acting ugly during the 1-hour sew-off when I say I've felt that feeling myself (it's like the Dark Side of the Force, it flows easily!)  But literally from the first episode they have been spinning her; until by last episode it was almost literally nothing but Korina smack talk from start to finish.  That is not an accident, and it's not "oh well she said it so we have to put it in!"

 

The fact that some people have said "Well I would give her the benefit of the doubt, but she was a bitch from day one!" is exactly why I was trying to point out this crazy edit from the first episodes.  I didn't make this up because I liked Korina.  I saw it.  And as she was doing nothing out of the ordinary, I knew they were either out of their minds or they were going somewhere with this.  This is what I meant about the regressive editing; you can't judge the first episodes by the first episodes, or the end by the beginning; you must judge the beginning by the end.  That's how you see the beauty of an edit like Jay's or Parvati's in Survivor: Micronesia.

 

Anyway if I know the Internet I'll be accused of being Korina before long (I wonder if Korina watches Survivor) so I'm going to make this my last word on her.  If you'd like to talk in PMs that's fine, but I'll just drop the subject in public.  I think my position is fairly clear.

[Julia]

The fact that some people have said "Well I would give her the benefit of the doubt, but she was a bitch from day one!" is exactly why I was trying to point out this crazy edit from the first episodes.

FWIW, I thought the whole Amanda/Korina/Char controversy was bullshit, and I didn't think Amanda's selfreporting about her victim status was accurate any more than Sandhya's was.

On the other hand, Korina was driven into a rage so profound she started attacking the rescue ships because someone out there thought Char wasn't too inferior for her to be troubled to compete with. I can't with that.

[RealityGal]

I'm not saying, just to be clear, that "it's all editing".  I am saying she is a jerk, but no more so than 60% or more of PR contestants.  While yes, I do think they almost certainly have created some of the subtlest and therefore most insidious bitchery through editing, obviously she said all that she said, and some of it has been fairly obnoxious and/or arrogant.  I am certainly not trying to dismiss the fact that she was acting ugly during the 1-hour sew-off when I say I've felt that feeling myself (it's like the Dark Side of the Force, it flows easily!)  But literally from the first episode they have been spinning her; until by last episode it was almost literally nothing but Korina smack talk from start to finish.  That is not an accident, and it's not "oh well she said it so we have to put it in!"

 

The fact that some people have said "Well I would give her the benefit of the doubt, but she was a bitch from day one!" is exactly why I was trying to point out this crazy edit from the first episodes.  I didn't make this up because I liked Korina.  I saw it.  And as she was doing nothing out of the ordinary, I knew they were either out of their minds or they were going somewhere with this.  This is what I meant about the regressive editing; you can't judge the first episodes by the first episodes, or the end by the beginning; you must judge the beginning by the end.  That's how you see the beauty of an edit like Jay's or Parvati's in Survivor: Micronesia.

 

Anyway if I know the Internet I'll be accused of being Korina before long (I wonder if Korina watches Survivor) so I'm going to make this my last word on her.  If you'd like to talk in PMs that's fine, but I'll just drop the subject in public.  I think my position is fairly clear.

 

I think that brings up an interesting point.  And I respect your decision to not want to discuss your POV anymore.  I don't think anyone here would accuse you of being Korina as anything more than a joke, most people on this forum seem chill, even if they have strong opinions.

 

But, I digress, I don't know how reality show taping works.  But I think, just like anything else on TV, there is an element of storytelling.  It would make sense to me that they tape the entire season, just to see what happens.  They have a bunch of TH from everyone, they probably have super bitchy TH from people that will give you super bitchy TH.  I think they have personality types that they cast, and those are the ones that they know they can get super bitchy TH from if they just ask the right questions.  And yes, I think there are probably TH that Korina has done that have been bitchy, and some that have probably been fine.  The TH are things they can cut, paste, etc.  Yes, no one can make her say anything in the TH, so those are her views, but the production team can choose which ones to air and when to air them. 

 

So anyways, I think they film the entire season just to see what happens.  When you have a big, dramatic set of events that occurred naturally, like Korina's behavior towards Char, and her behavior on the runway, and her behavior during the one hour sew off, I would think as a producer, you KNOW that you have to put that in the show.  But you don't just want it all coming out of left field, so you "tell the story" from the beginning of the season.  You pick the TH from Korina that are going to support that behavior she displayed during the Char thing.  But that doesn't mean thats not Korina, IMO.  Korina did say all of those things, its unlikely those are the only TH, but as a viewer we can only know that the TH that exist are the ones that are shown on the show.  Its hard to prove the existence of things that you've never seen, but you know that what you have seen does exist.  So I don't think its super crazy to think that this is how Korina is, the viewer hasn't been given evidence that she is any other way.

 

But then, even if I were to give her the benefit of the doubt in terms of the TH, and in terms of the various eye rolling looks, what seals the deal for me are the things  she has done that aren't subject to producer manipulation.  Her condescending  facebook post is something that the producers had no power over (and yes, MV on whether or not the facebook post was bad, I think it was, but that's me).  Her behavior on the runway wasn't something the producers had any say in, other than to create the same stressful conditions that everyone has to cope with.  Her behavior towards Char in the green room wasn't a fiction created by the producers.  Her behavior during the sew off wasn't something the producers made her do.

 

So, to me, it is those things that give me insight into her.  I mean, so do the TH, but I can understand people claiming producer manipulation of the TH, and bad editing.

 

Or wait a minute, have I just basically said exactly the same thing you just said in your post?  I just came back from a run, I may have a runners high (this happens after a run when I think all of my thoughts are absolute gold)

 

ETA: and by being the personality type that would give super bitchy TH, Korina probably was kept by the producers much longer than she would have been kept otherwise.  I think she could have, and probably should have gone home on the Heidi challenge.  

Edited October 5, 2014 by RealityGal

[KimberStormer]

Or wait a minute, have I just basically said exactly the same thing you just said in your post?  I just came back from a run, I may have a runners high (this happens after a run when I think all of my thoughts are absolute gold)

 

Haha pretty much!  But that's fine.  As for whether Korina was kept around longer for the dramaz that's certainly possible, but since (as I've said) I don't really think she ever really did much dramazing until this ep (and the next, it seems) I'm not totally certain of that.  However she was giving them reasonably good material in the confessional, more than the rest of the milquetoasts they cast this season.  So it's definitely a possible factor in her not being aufed in that Heidi ep.

 

OK no more Korina from me.

[RealityGal]

Haha pretty much!  But that's fine.  As for whether Korina was kept around longer for the dramaz that's certainly possible, but since (as I've said) I don't really think she ever really did much dramazing until this ep (and the next, it seems) I'm not totally certain of that.  However she was giving them reasonably good material in the confessional, more than the rest of the milquetoasts they cast this season.  So it's definitely a possible factor in her not being aufed in that Heidi ep.

 

OK no more Korina from me.

Well thats my bad, its the same reason why people aren't supposed to text while drunk.  I shouldn't be posting directly after a run :)

[ChelseaNH]

when Korina was complaining about having to do the one-hour dress and said she should have been judged on her first look in the three-piece collection. I wanted to tell her, "You were judged on that look, honey. They hated it."

 

If they hated it more than Char's, they should have aufed her for it.

[caracas1914]

Korina overestimated her own skill level compared to the rest of the designers in addition to underestimating Char.

She seemed flabbergasted she was in the bottom two and managed in one fell swoop to a) shade her fellow designers in the runway and (b) treat with contempt the judges criticism.

Let's not forget she threw Sean also under the bus for dresses models couldn' walk in..

Even her helper Emiy was appalled by her bad karma in the last ad hoc challenge.

While she had the right to think she's infinitely superior to Char, she didn't take the last challenge as a reprieve but instead as a validation that she was robbed.  Surely she's seen the show enough and lived through it to realize that if you are in the final two for whatever reason, there is a legit 50/50 chance you're gone. Instead, she seemed outraged she was in the bottom two and almost seemed indignant she got a second chance with an opponent beneath her.  .

Edited October 5, 2014 by caracas1914

[Coquette]

What poor sportsmanship. My goodness! To treat Char that way was unforgivable. Emily was correct when she said her negativity would show in her work. I'm glad she's gone. She's a horrible, horrible person. I would never purchase any of her designs.

[auntlada]

If they hated it more than Char's, they should have aufed her for it.

 

I think they were divided, and some hated it more, and others hated Char's more. They certainly didn't appear to like it more than Char's, or they would have aufed Char.

[backgroundnoise]

Well thankfully, Tom & Lorenzo have their heads screwed on straight and called this for exactly what it was: bullshit.

I think TLo gave Korina too much of a pass regarding her attack towards Char.  I'm sure K was furious at the judges/producers, but her whole point was that Char was soooo inferior, it was insulting.  How could Char not take that personally?

 

I'll say this:  NOTHING* that happened this season hasn't happened before.  After 12 seasons, it should be obvious to anyone signing up for this show that inconsistant/hypocritical judging, story-arcing, producer favorites, "unexpected" twists, etc., are par for the course.   The rules are that there are no rules, sadly.  Rarely does the bitch-personality win.  You take your chances and show yourself the best you can.  If someone's prompting you to trash talk, well, you still have control over your own mouth.

 

Of any contestant ever, I think Victor has the most reason to be bitter about producer manipulation and he managed to keep it together and act with dignity.

 

*Well, the extra ten minutes for Char did, I equate that with allowing Wendy Pepper's model to wear her own thong.

Edited October 5, 2014 by backgroundnoise

[Beden]

Regarding the comments and observations about how the contestants are operating in a stressful environment, dealing with sleep deprivation and in an enclosed situation, mix in varied levels of talent, ability and different personalities then dangle the carrot of a pile of money/prizes; add drama and stir, watch what happens.

 

This has been PR's and countless other reality shows MO forever. Ye3s, it's difficult--as even Heidi has said many, many times; "This is PR, it's not easy!"

 

Some swim, some sink. But it's how they deal with the situation which seems to separate the wheat from the chaff. Even Santino--truly an obnoxious fellow, had humor. His impersonation of Tim and Andre at Red Lobster was comic gold.

 

This year Korina seriously failed in her persona and Sandya (sp?) was a dab too needy to be a fave. You reap what you sew...

[Quilt Fairy]

The spirit behind the one-shot Gunn save is understandable - but could and should be done without the Designers' knowledge.

How, exactly, would that work?

 

BTW, Christian was right. Korina's look is what's in the stores now.  I was shopping at Von Maur the other day, and saw Korina's cape as well as several other Pendleton blanket type looks on the racks.

[RealityGal]

How, exactly, would that work?

 

BTW, Christian was right. Korina's look is what's in the stores now.  I was shopping at Von Maur the other day, and saw Korina's cape as well as several other Pendleton blanket type looks on the racks.

You know, that brings up an interesting point.  Is something current and on point fashion wise just because its in stores?  I mean are some stores simply catering to people who prefer to be "off trend?"  If you have a giant retailer like Nordstrom, Macy's, Saks, Lord & Taylor then I think you have to assume that what they are carrying is what people are wearing right now or will be wearing in a little while.  Those stores are huge and they cater to the wider audience.  I've never heard of Von Maur, but I did a quick Wikipedia search and it seems to have 29 stores, in 13 midwest states, and caters to a "middle class" consumer.  A lot of the stores seem based in Ohio, Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska, and I mean no offense to those living in the Midwest, but those don't necessarily seem like hubs on fashion forward designs.  Although Chicago is very chic.  Does a store like that cater to people who don't really want to be fashion forward.  Although, there may always be a market for a basic grey cape for the winter.

[Julia]

I'm having trouble parsing the concept of "on trend" where it relates to this show. Unless it's halloween, no-one will ever wear the stuff Sandhya produced, and most of it made her model look alternately middle aged or clownish. You're never going to find Patricia on the rack either, and I don't think Amanda can count on the shapeless seventies coming back one more time and sticking around forever (and even if they do, there are better versions available in thrift shops). And yet the judges love them.

 

Does it only matter if it's wearable and flattering if it actually resembles clothing in the real world? Because the prize sure seems to be "jump start your design career," and I don't know how you do that if nobody's going to buy your clothes.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Julia

[gingerormaryann]

All these Korina apologists, and that certainly includes Tom and Lorenzo, are doing their version of the Tim Gunn save.

[Funzlerks]

I think she is pretty awful-acting. You don't make someone feel bad about themselves to their faces to prop your own self-pity. You do that stuff in private, lol. But I disagree about her aesthetic being out-dated. Kini's denim on denim look was dated because young women don't wear shiny denim anymore and don't wear that silhouette. Sean's mesh panels are outdated because it is a look that has moments cyclicly and right now we're in minute 14 of the current iteration, so it isn't runway for the time the show was filmed.

A culture(s) can't be trendy. And it isn't like she went to that well too many times. Korina was right, Nina was very wrong. And that says something nasty to me about the judges. Use an American Indian motif once, great, so innovative! Use it twice and gross, put on a black hobble dress please.

It is true that blanket coats with Aztec/Navajo/Western/Southwestern prints are pretty ubiquitous in major retailers. But doesn't that mean that months ago when this show was filmed, Korina was right? And it isn't like this is a look that goes away. There would be no Anthropologies, Sundance Catalogs, and Free Peoples. And it is something much more popular outside of the eastcoast. Those prints are like black and white graphic prints or navy with white polka dots. As long as the silhouette is modern, and the garment itself is classy, it looks pretty current.

[ChelseaNH]

All these Korina apologists

 

Who's apologizing?  As far as I can tell, there's universal agreement that Korina had an undeserved sense of entitlement and that she covered herself in ignominy on her way out the door.  If anyone has said otherwise, then I've missed it.

 

The point being made is that Char was never at risk, and what we saw was Korina realizing that.  Yes, it's her own fault for being in the sacrificial lamb spot -- but there was a sacrificial lamb spot.  Yes, there are better ways to handle being in that position -- but you can't require someone to behave gracefully and resourcefully when she sees her dream going up in flames.  If you think it's so easy, then try it sometime; if you know it's hard, then you should know how to set your expectations.  Yes, Korina got lucky with one decision -- but Char has gotten lucky with several more.  That doesn't mean Char is a bad person or a bad designer.  Some people just aren't cut out for this particular competition.  I think Fade is a way more interesting designer than either Korina or Char, but he got sent home well before either of them because it wasn't the right creative environment for him.  Char just doesn't have the technical skill to execute her vision within the time requirements.  (Yes, yes, Anya didn't have much technical skill either -- but she had enough to accomplish her particular point of view.)

 

In short, Korina was a nasty piece of work, and so were the producers.  I watch the show, but I don't respect it as a competition.

[cherriecurrie]

Oh god, she was so bitchy in the workroom when she was making the do-over dress. It came to a point where I was thinking, it's not about being likable or affable, but just be professional. Sure, I totally expected the backlash when Char was granted the extra ten minutes (but seriously, what's ten minutes? Is that what is considered a lifetime #nopunintended in PR world?) but like Char said, you only need your own talent to speak for yourself. There ain't no need to put people down to get on top. Well, unless if you are really not that good at your job. And how hasn't anyone said anything about the model chiming in during that hate-on-Char-tirade yet? Does that spin-off where the models compete still exist? OK, even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean she should throw whatever professionalism she has out the window and act that way in her 10 seconds of screentime. Sure, stay loyal to your designer, but dude, by the looks of it, it's more likely that someone else will be doing the hiring,

 

Also, just wanted to say, hi guys! I'm new here! I have never joined a forum, but after reading the posts, everyone seems pretty cool and objective here with the right mix of funny-snark so decided to chime in.

[RealityGal]

Oh god, she was so bitchy in the workroom when she was making the do-over dress. It came to a point where I was thinking, it's not about being likable or affable, but just be professional. Sure, I totally expected the backlash when Char was granted the extra ten minutes (but seriously, what's ten minutes? Is that what is considered a lifetime #nopunintended in PR world?) but like Char said, you only need your own talent to speak for yourself. There ain't no need to put people down to get on top. Well, unless if you are really not that good at your job. And how hasn't anyone said anything about the model chiming in during that hate-on-Char-tirade yet? Does that spin-off where the models compete still exist? OK, even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean she should throw whatever professionalism she has out the window and act that way in her 10 seconds of screentime. Sure, stay loyal to your designer, but dude, by the looks of it, it's more likely that someone else will be doing the hiring,

 

Also, just wanted to say, hi guys! I'm new here! I have never joined a forum, but after reading the posts, everyone seems pretty cool and objective here with the right mix of funny-snark so decided to chime in.

Welcome!  I think this forum is fun, and I hope you will too.  I'm happy to have as much snark as possible :)

 

Some people have mentioned the model's shit talking.  One part of me wants to say that she was just being loyal, and Korina was egging her on.  The other part of me wants to say that she was doing it for camera time.  The third part of me wants to say that since most of the models this year look like homeless men it seems strange for them to be talking shit at all.