S08.E15: Don't Cry for Me Antigua

[Natalie68]

On 2/10/2021 at 4:13 AM, 65mickey said:

If this were a real job and not a reality TV job things most likely would be handled differently. I really don't think that Francesca was fair to Elizabeth. All I ever heard her say to Elizabeth is that she needs  to step it up whatever that is supposed to mean and in the end stop talking to James. She could have and maybe she did and we didn't see it, taken Elizabeth aside and given her a written timeline for what and when to do things, like cabins, laundry, galley duty etc. and when to take a break. Show her how to set the table for breakfast or dinner to Francesca's satisfaction. Elizabeth reacts to a specific instructions  like Lee's request to her to clean the galley. It seemed to me that when Elizabeth was working cabins or laundry Francesca told her to stop and do something else. Francesca tells Elizabeth to take a break and Elizabeth says no I don't need one now. Francesca says well take one if you feel that you need to. So then we see Elizabeth on a break and Francesca loses it because Elizabeth didn't come to her and tell her that she was going on a break when she was just told to take one. I don't think there was anything that she could have done to please Francesca who disliked her and wanted Lee to fire her for weeks. I think it was telling that Lee made Francesca do the firing when he has never done that before.  However I do believe that managing someone like Elizabeth must be frustrating and that she needs a lot more supervision that most stews. And Francesca is probably a great chief stew in real life but she is not cut out for reality TV. They couldn't have found a duller person to fill this role if they tried. 

I found Francesca to be a horrible chief stew.  It honestly should have been Ashling.  She had a horrible way of communicating and she is not a good supervisor.  She wasn't specific enough for someone under her who is struggling (being a supervisor does include training your crew).  Rather than berate Elizabeth she should have taken more time to train her.  She lost her cool too many times and her confrontations seemed way too personal.  Her communication was bad to the chef as well.  If chefs are notoriously difficult (and sometimes a bit crazy)? Francesca should have asked Rachel how she wanted her orders to come in.  Problem solved.  How would she have treated a male chef?

James is a dick and is was so painful watching Elizabeth beg him.  I also didn't like the shammy commenting guy whose name has escaped me.

I don't know why they couldn't have told that kid you are too drunk to be in the hot tub.  Surely there are rules against allowing a really drunk person in a hot tub.  If there aren't there should be.  

[biakbiak]

5 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

Rather than berate Elizabeth she should have taken more time to train her.  S

She has five years of experience and nearly everything she messed up on was very specific directions “check on the guests every 10 minutes,” “bring sunscreen  to the beach,” “take the bleach outside if you are going to use it,” “change the sheets in the master,” etc. Ashling also mentioned on WWHL that Elizabeth wouldn’t use the checklists.

[nokat]

20 hours ago, jumper sage said:

As a previous-job-as-a-waitress, exactly!

Yes. As much as I dislike all the hate thrown at Francesca, that was a mistake. Rachel is scanning that list and the two on one line was a mistake. Yes, she could have asked, but with something like mahi mahi.... It was written as mahi on every other line, but my brain would not differentiate the mahi mahi from the mahi. My brain now hurts.

[biakbiak]

40 minutes ago, nokat said:

Rachel is scanning that list and the two on one line was a mistake.

When she reviewed the list she easily counted those two and didn’t seem surprised it was when she got down the list to the other two that were for one person but had more than one item she seemed surprised. Also, she ended up being two short which wouldn’t have been caused be that one line. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by biakbiak

[Natalie68]

16 hours ago, biakbiak said:

She has five years of experience and nearly everything she messed up on was very specific directions “check on the guests every 10 minutes,” “bring sunscreen  to the beach,” “take the bleach outside if you are going to use it,” “change the sheets in the master,” etc. Ashling also mentioned on WWHL that Elizabeth wouldn’t use the checklists.

Oh I agree she was terrible and should have known what to do.  But she didn't.  I don't think Francesca knew how to deal with her and if she was as terrible as Ashling said maybe she needed to present her case better to the Captain earlier about firing.  My point is yes E was bad but F was a bad leader for anyone not good at their job.  Leading isn't for everyone.  Elizabeth would have driven me out of my mind.  Terrible.

[Teri313]

28 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Oh I agree she was terrible and should have known what to do.  But she didn't.  I don't think Francesca knew how to deal with her and if she was as terrible as Ashling said maybe she needed to present her case better to the Captain earlier about firing.  My point is yes E was bad but F was a bad leader for anyone not good at their job.  Leading isn't for everyone.  Elizabeth would have driven me out of my mind.  Terrible.

How true. Throughout my career, I've seen many people who were really good at their particular job be promoted to management simply because they were good at that job, not because they were management material, and never have to take any kind of formal management training. It can make for a miserable work environment.

The first big mistake Francesca made, IMO, was giving Elizabeth her two-stripe promotion right out of the gate as an incentive to rise to the position, not as a reward for achieving it.

[Angel pie]

On 2/10/2021 at 6:40 PM, Teri313 said:

I also just really hate it when the chief stew picks a favorite and gossips with them about the other stew. It's not a good look, but I think they've all done it - Kate, Francesca, Hannah, Jenna. I think Adrienne is the only one that didn't cross that line. Her stews just treated her like crap.

It's a TV show. I'm sure the gossiping is encouraged by production.

[nokat]

18 hours ago, Teri313 said:

How true. Throughout my career, I've seen many people who were really good at their particular job be promoted to management simply because they were good at that job, not because they were management material, and never have to take any kind of formal management training. It can make for a miserable work environment.

The first big mistake Francesca made, IMO, was giving Elizabeth her two-stripe promotion right out of the gate as an incentive to rise to the position, not as a reward for achieving it.

It's called the Peter Principle.  Being a good manager is a skill, and you won't necessarily be a good manager if you are good at your job. For example I think Eddie has really grown up and Captain Lee has recognized this. I thrive under someone like Captain Lee who just expects you to be competent, so I don't really know how I'd handle an Elizabeth. I use the best manager I've ever had as a guide.

[Kdawg82]

On 2/9/2021 at 6:38 PM, RoxiP said:

What was Ashling to do?  Be rude to Elizabeth to her face?  At the onset Elizabeth was technically her superior. Last night on WWHL Elizabeth. Just proved how really dumb she is and once again I feel like Andy is just a jerk. 

Yeah I wasn't sure if we could reference WWHL on here RE: The episode/season. I find Andy to be super one-sided. He was blasting major haterade onto Ashling.  Ok- even if Elizabeth is a simpleton, airhead & rube- even if she is all those things & doesn't have a mean bone in her body- she KNOWINGLY causes others to pick up her slack & work extra hard because of her ways. She's the last one who should've taken on a boatmance because it jammed the cog in the already rusty & slow-turning wheels of her brain. Ashling had every right to be upset. Andy has such a hardon for the least deserving individuals across nearly all franchises. Ashling wasn't being "fake" & I don't feel she "trashed" Elizabeth constantly, unfairly, or viciously.  

[lcarolynl]

So after watching Galley Talk I’m pretty sure Rachel said she’d bring the ketchup and honey. Either Rachel or Francesca said, “I’ll bring the the ketchup and honey” then Rachel told Francesca to bring the relish and kraut.
BUT Amy was clear that the chief stew packs the food and is responsible for everything the chef does not actually make, and Rachel did not make the ketchup.

Those two need to look at each other when speaking and repeat back instructions.

Kate is firmly in Rachel’s camp and has no love for Francesca and Connie is so far up Kate’s ass she is surprised Elizabeth was fired! “For what?!?!” she asks! Really Connie? Why don’t you work and rely on her and come back with that question

Connie is also very butt hurt that Eddie of five years ago didn’t recognize her contributions and promote her to lead deckhand as he did with Izzy this season. I guess that’s further evidence that Eddie has grown and evolved in the last five years which is why I’m over being pissed at the way he treated Rockey (which was horrible). Live and learn.

Edited February 13, 2021 by lcarolynl
Rockey not Rickey

[snarts]

4 hours ago, lcarolynl said:

So after watching Galley Talk I’m pretty sure Rachel said she’d bring the ketchup and honey. Either Rachel or Francesca said, “I’ll bring the the ketchup and honey” then Rachel told Francesca to bring the relish and kraut.

She did, which is what caused the issue. Had Rachel not told Francesca that she was bringing condiments, I guarantee you that the interior would've packed them.  Amy is correct that it's the interior's job but Rachel specifically told her she was bringing them, including honey & kraut.  There was also a mustard bottle on the table, so ketchup was the only one missing,

They're both to blame for the miscommunications but it appears to me that Rachel's purposing trying to keep the rift going.  So much unwarranted animosity from her side, at least based on what we've seen,

Kate wants to be the bestest chief stew ever, so she purposefully rags on every other chief stew.  She so would've had similar issues with Elizabeth and likely would've been so much nastier to her, just ask Amy/Sierra/Jennifer/Rocky/Caroline.

[nokat]

3 hours ago, snarts said:

She did, which is what caused the issue. Had Rachel not told Francesca that she was bringing condiments, I guarantee you that the interior would've packed them.  Amy is correct that it's the interior's job but Rachel specifically told her she was bringing them, including honey & kraut.  There was also a mustard bottle on the table, so ketchup was the only one missing,

They're both to blame for the miscommunications but it appears to me that Rachel's purposing trying to keep the rift going.  So much unwarranted animosity from her side, at least based on what we've seen,

Kate wants to be the bestest chief stew ever, so she purposefully rags on every other chief stew.  She so would've had similar issues with Elizabeth and likely would've been so much nastier to her, just ask Amy/Sierra/Jennifer/Rocky/Caroline.

It's the whole communication issue. Rachel said she was bringing condiments. What she meant was her condiments and not the usual ketchup and mustard. I would want her condiments, but we got told that he is pretty much a ketchup on a steak guy.

[Milan]

So Elizabeth made TERRIBLE mistakes such as bringing only 2 bottles of champagne to a beach party (instead of 3), or failing to take down some party lights and forgetting to put the vacume cleaner back in the closet?

WOW  what great mistakes....she deserves to be fired...

 

What about this last episode where the Chief stew screws up a SIMPLE order of 4 mahi mahi? There is only 6 Guests and she screws up a order!!!!

What about the chief stew forgetting to bring ketchup to the beach party? I guess that because Elizabeth was not on the beach party she can not be blamed for that.

Francesca is a simple jealous incompetent person with o feelings for her job whatsoever.

And then Ashling, what a false personality. She is the one SNITCHING to Francesca about Elizabeth sleeping in the guests cabin.

There is also Izzy who SNITCHED about the same thing to Ashling. Then she cries to Eddie about Rob not being happy with her leadership because she is a woman blah blah blah. Off course he should be not satisfied, because she does not deserve to be a leader. Why was she made up leader in the first place since she just became a deck hand 2 weeks prior to her promotion. This is clearly a decision made by the producers to create some shit.

Where I come from, SNITCHES are BITCHES. What has the world gone to, when a team of 7 young people SNITCH on each other.

[HouseofBeck]

6 hours ago, Milan said:

So Elizabeth made TERRIBLE mistakes such as bringing only 2 bottles of champagne to a beach party (instead of 3), or failing to take down some party lights and forgetting to put the vacume cleaner back in the closet?

WOW  what great mistakes....she deserves to be fired...

 

What about this last episode where the Chief stew screws up a SIMPLE order of 4 mahi mahi? There is only 6 Guests and she screws up a order!!!!

What about the chief stew forgetting to bring ketchup to the beach party? I guess that because Elizabeth was not on the beach party she can not be blamed for that.

Francesca is a simple jealous incompetent person with o feelings for her job whatsoever.

And then Ashling, what a false personality. She is the one SNITCHING to Francesca about Elizabeth sleeping in the guests cabin.

There is also Izzy who SNITCHED about the same thing to Ashling. Then she cries to Eddie about Rob not being happy with her leadership because she is a woman blah blah blah. Off course he should be not satisfied, because she does not deserve to be a leader. Why was she made up leader in the first place since she just became a deck hand 2 weeks prior to her promotion. This is clearly a decision made by the producers to create some shit.

Where I come from, SNITCHES are BITCHES. What has the world gone to, when a team of 7 young people SNITCH on each other.

Perhaps you’re saying all this just to be inflammatory. Regardless, trying to keep the playground mentality of “don’t be a tattletale!” while in an adult job is something that people who are doing the things they shouldn’t love to keep alive. Fortunately, it doesn’t work that way in the real world, no matter how many ad hominem rhymes there are. The people doing shitty things are the ones responsible for the fallout when it comes to them.

From what I’ve seen of Izzy, she deserved the promotion. And if Rob and others really think it’s made up or nothing more than Eddie offloading work, then Rob and others shouldn’t be bugged by it. And yet they are, over and over. 
 

 

[Teri313]

7 hours ago, Milan said:

So Elizabeth made TERRIBLE mistakes such as bringing only 2 bottles of champagne to a beach party (instead of 3), or failing to take down some party lights and forgetting to put the vacume cleaner back in the closet?

WOW  what great mist'akes....she deserves to be fired...

If you're honest, you have to admit that she made a lot more mistakes than that. My Seanna advertises as a "luxury yacht" with "world-class service" that charters for ~$412,500/wk during the summer high season. So attention to detail matters. In fact, it's a must. That's what they all should be striving for. Elizabeth isn't that person. She's not a perfectionist. She has difficulty focusing and following directions, she (almost unconsciously it seems) prioritizes her love life over her job and spends a lot of time standing around arching her back and posing, and she doesn't really seem to have white-glove level experience to begin with. It's not that she isn't a nice person or couldn't be good at another job, she's just not cut out for this one. I don't care for Francesca or Ashling either, so I don't need to compare them to her. I'm just addressing the Elizabeth issue here.

 

[lcarolynl]

23 hours ago, Milan said:

So Elizabeth made TERRIBLE mistakes such as bringing only 2 bottles of champagne to a beach party (instead of 3), or failing to take down some party lights and forgetting to put the vacume cleaner back in the closet?

WOW  what great mistakes....she deserves to be fired...

We finally agree!

😆😆😆😆

[Petunia13]

16 hours ago, Teri313 said:

My Seanna advertises as a "luxury yacht" with "world-class service" that charters for ~$412,500/wk during the summer high season.

Yes but Below Deck the charters are only $40,000. I know because people have uploaded the private documents on Instagram stories LOL 

So theyre gettting Wallmart Great Value version / B squad 👌🏼 

[Teri313]

9 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

Yes but Below Deck the charters are only $40,000. I know because people have uploaded the private documents on Instagram stories LOL 

So theyre gettting Wallmart Great Value version / B squad 👌🏼 

I get what you're saying, and if these people were simply actors and this was purely scripted, I wouldn't expect more than Elizabeth offers. However, they supposedly really do this for a living outside of the show, so I do have expectations that they would naturally be A-game material whether or not on the show. I just don't get the impression that Elizabeth is dumbing down her performance on purpose. I think she really is the way she presents. It's her supposed 4-5 years in the industry that is mind-boggling to me.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Teri313
Added a hyphen

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I watched some seasons out of order so I finished BD Sailing Season 2 before this.  So far I like Daisy the best as a Chief Stew.  She was nice but firm, organized and not a bitch to her co-workers - her pushback was focused on Gary.  Elizabeth is a fucking idiot but Francesca is just down right cruel to her.  

Ashling was SUCH a bitch on WWHL.  Not at all like she seemed on BD.   

I liked Rachel the entire time.  Found her hilarious and zany.   I am on her side with Mahi Mahi.   She's really busy in the kitchen, I can see how Francesca's messy sheet was confusing.

On to why I came on here.  The Siegals (spell?) are absolutely the most disgusting pieces of shit on the planet.   Why Captain Lee thought he could learn how to cope from these fucking scumbags is beyond me.  They let their young sons drink themselves into oblivion after their daughter does of an overdose.  You know that's not like a one time, vacation type of thing.  No, Daniel, you're Dad can't buy Sea World.  Any time to mention how much money they have is ultra fucking tacky.