S05.E10: Nemesis Games

[Eulipian 5k]

2 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

it was like the season built up to a climax of everyone being reunited but instead just skipped over it quickly,

Some viewers have shown screen caps of Alex at the cocktail party, subsequently erased; so we really don't know how the post Naomi's rescue scenes were shot. I can't fault TPTB for making the artistic choices to focus on the human drama of their own books. For me the 5 seconds of Bobby's comforting voice in the left ear made all the suffering they kept showing really pay off; I still tear up at the third, fourth, and fifth watching. They spent 10 seconds in a useless conversation with a kid on a roof  about throwing rocks in Season 1; that kinda worked 4 seasons later.

Patience, Grasshopper, the TARDIS takes you where you need to go...(to puree 2 metaphors).

[wanderingstar]

On 2/4/2021 at 9:48 AM, marinw said:

Sauveterre demanding that Babbage hand over her Mom's bracelet was so creepy and controlling. Babbage could have just kept the bracelet in her pocket or something. Not that it matters now,

Looks like the rogue Martians going to colonize Laconia will be ramping up the fascistic tendencies of Mars.

[MissLucas]

Since the YT folks have failed me I had another look at the battle and I realized that part of my confusion was caused by the fact that I had had no idea who was on which ship. There are five Belter/Free Navy ships: Three belonging to Drummer's faction and two Martian ships.

The Tynan: a gun-ship, used to be Ashford's, taken over by Drummer who's now in the Captain's seat. Karal has taken over weapons. Also on deck are Bertold and Michio.

The Mowteng: an armed freighter, during the battle Oksana and Josep are on board.

The Dewalt: used to be Drummer's ship before she moved to the Tynan. No idea who's on board.

These are the three ships Holden identifies as Belter tugs when Bull shows him the pad with the signatures. The Roci could probably take them but not the two others, the two Martian ships sent by Marco to 'help': The Koto, a destroyer and the Serrio Mal, a frigate. The later's the ship Bull decides the smartest Belters would be on and wants to target first.

Before the battle can even start Drummer disarms Karal and fires on the Mowteng, taking out its reactor with a single torpedo. (No wonder Oksana was pissed afterwards.) This is the shot that lets Holden hesitate telling an impatient Bull 'They're firing at each other' to which Bull hilariously replies 'Good, let's help!' The Roci enters the battle.

Bertold on board the Tyan orders the Dewalt and the Mowteng to fire. Drummer orders the Mowteng to disengage and gets attacked by Bertold. Karal and Michio enter the frame, Karal gets killed by Michio.

The Koto wants to know what's going on on the Tynan and Drummer informs them that Karal is injured and that they have a malfunction in their system, asking for assistance. Then she takes out the Koto with a torpedo salve from the Tynan.

Holden notices that the Koto is out and decides to focus on the Serrio Mal. The Serrio Mal and the Rocinante have a go at each other, with the Roci being the underdog. That's when Josep on the Mowteng decides to take a stand and despite Oksana's attempts to stop him he sends torpedoes against the Serrio Mal and that's that.

Bull comments about Belters backstabbing each other and that he can't wait to hear the story behind it all. Holden orders the remaining Belter ships to stand down and we get the satisfying line of: 'Holden, this is Drummer.'

And no, I have no idea what happened to the Dewalt during all of this. She does not even get mentioned in the end when Oksana and Bertold leave on the Mowteng. The words 'chopped liver' and 'cutting room floor' come to mind. But maybe I missed something amid all the backstabbing, mutiny and counter-mutiny attempts.

Edited February 7, 2021 by MissLucas

[Quark]

What a fabulous season it has been. If I have any criticisms, it's that I would have liked the Marcos Inaros and Philip storyline wrapped up with both of them dying very painful deaths, but I guess I will have to wait a bit more for that.

Can't say I'm that bothered about Alex dying, he never really did anything for me as a character.

This was definitely Amos' season. He went through a hell of a lot of growth.

I loved the look on Holden's face when Peaches came on board. Fabulous.

I'm assuming that what happened at the end with the Martians is the force that Holden keeps feeling when he goes through the rings, which is getting angrier? I knew the second he mentioned it that this force, whatever it is that doesn't like the protomolecule, had to play a part in this season, and will be a major component of the next.

Anna Hopkins is still alive! Wahey!

[JZL]

I liked the season and really liked the last episode. It was a little of a surprise they did the space battle at the beginning but they had to do that to set up the rest of the show, which of course set up the next season.

Some watchers bemoaned the season-long split of the Roci crew but that allowed for different characters and dynamics, e.g., the Amos/Timmy-Peaches/Clarissa dealio. Drummer proves to be the bad ass of the bridge-- "'Captain' now-- 'Camilla' later"-- but with much cost.

I also liked near the end where Avasarala sings the multi-cultural praises of the Roci crew and Bobbie, now her "Laison," and how that was a diversion from the real ending which centered on the new MCRN (Mars Cut-throat Rogue Navy) hooking up with Marcos to divvy up space.

Teh bad: I'd wager that Keon Alexander and Jasai Chase Owens attended the William Shatner School of Acting.

I missed my Anderson Dawes prediction.
Bobbie spent too much time couped up in the Razorback with Alex.

I always thought I'd wait til the series was over to read the rest of the books, but with just one season left who knows.

Edited February 8, 2021 by JZL

[lidarose9]

I'm still processing the whole thing so this may be premature. No doubt some things will emerge over time. But some initial thoughts:

I have always tried to avoid anything remotely spoilery about this show and so I knew nothing about the situation with Cas Anvar and had no idea Alex was going to die. So I was utterly unprepared and his death hit me hard. I've always loved Alex the character. He is the one who really *tried* to make the Roci a home and the crew a family. He was always the first to forgive. I will never forget the scene when Miller joins their meal and tells the story about the cheese. Alex and Bobbie had such a great vibe, I was always shipping them. (Memorable reunion scene on Ganymede. "Bobbie?"... "Alex?") It was a gutsy move to kill him with a brain bleed. Remember when he and Avasarala were hauling ass in the Razorback and she was 30 seconds away from her brain exploding? It was a great call-back to that. 

Now, having waded through the story about the actor's behavior IRL, of course they had to can him. I hope it doesn't retroactively ruin that character for me cuz Alex was a great character. 

I was very disappointed in the storyline on Earth. It's obvious they made a decision to avoid showing the devastation and destruction resulting from Marco's attack. Why? There was so much they could have done there, but instead it turned into a low-budget winter remake of The Walking Dead without the zombies. Why the decision to do Clarissa's murder spree off-stage? We knew it was coming. We've been waiting for it. They set it up -- and then -- a big nuttin. And oh brainstorm! I know how to fix the rocket! Deus Ex Machina, anyone? Yes, it was great to get more background on Amos/Timothy, and I am OK with Clarissa joining up with our heroes. But that whole storyline was paced badly. So much felt so contrived. Unworthy of this show. 

I literally had to go do other things while Naomi was on screen. All parts of her story this season were SO long-drawn-out, dull, repetitive, beating a dead horse. All that shit on the ship with the name I can't remember could have been condensed into 5 minutes.... And yet, when Bobbie came to her rescue, even though I knew it was coming, I choked up. I love Bobbie.

I was OK with Holden taking more of a back seat this season. He doesn't always have to be center stage. I was suspicious of Monica. I'm glad she turned out to be on the side of the angels. Bull is OK with me too. 

But I was starting to roll my eyes at the Same Old Same Old drama with Drummer -- and I LOVE Drummer. We knew she was going to turn on Marco, but even so I choked up when she did. "Holden, this is Drummer." She had lost her old OPA family and tried to create a new one, but had to let it go. Again. (Everybody in this show is looking for a family.) There can't be payback big enough for her pain.  

I agree the last episode was WAY WAY too crammed full of important stuff. The cocktail party on Luna was surreal, wrong. Luna should be swamped with refugees from Earth, struggling to help with Disaster Aid, and awash in conflicting intelligence about Mars and the "Free Navy" and the stolen protomolecule and Cortezar and the Ring. It would have been a great opportunity to do some contrasting between the disasters on Eros and Ganymede versus the "privileged elites" on Earth. Someone sent a ship to rescue Holden's family, but a whole shitload of poor people living in those alleys outside the UN are starving by now. 

Also, I am holding out hope that if a smidge of protomolecule still survives (somewhere), we may see Miller again.  

And OK, I know space is dark and everything but jeezy creezy people. I honestly couldn't tell wtf was going on most of the time. Not just the battle scenes. I wish they'd made the interiors of various ships look distinctively different so we'd immediately know who we were flip-flopping around to now. 

And years ago someone somewhere said about this show (or maybe some other show), it's at its best when nobody's talking. There generally seemed to be a LOT of talking this whole season. I like it better when things happen. 

That's all for now. 

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, JZL said:

I always thought I'd wait til the series was over to read the rest of the books, but with just one season left who knows.

I always read the book of the season after the season (though the divisions aren't always clear - sometimes the book goes longer than the season.) So I now have Nemesis Games.  Though the beginning of it refers to some book only (I think) characters who've I've forgotten since it's been a long time between seasons.

[Eulipian 5k]

13 hours ago, lidarose9 said:

I was very disappointed in the storyline on Earth. It's obvious they made a decision to avoid showing the devastation and destruction resulting from Marco's attack. Why? T

A lot of folks seem to agree. It’s totally ironic that they used Earth to show devastation on a fictional Illus, but couldn’t show similar devastation at home.

I do believe the existence of TWD affected them not showing any of the journey to NH. “It’s been done, and we’ll spend the money on space battles and cgi urine streams...that’ll work”. 

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I do believe the existence of TWD affected them not showing any of the journey to NH. “It’s been done, and we’ll spend the money on space battles and cgi urine streams...that’ll work”. 

Acro alert - I know what TWD stands for but what's NH?

[Eulipian 5k]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Acro alert - I know what TWD stands for but what's NH?

Lake  Winnepesauke is the largest lake in New Hampshire, (NH). 🙂

[MissLucas]

Well, I've spent countless hours in lockdown with playing geography quizzes but that one went straight over my head 😁

[Eulipian 5k]

1 minute ago, MissLucas said:

that one went straight over my head 😁

That’s what Shed said.😪

[shrewd.buddha]

19 hours ago, lidarose9 said:

I honestly couldn't tell wtf was going on most of the time.

Yeah, someone really dropped the ball on editing.  There were already issues with trying to figure out what Naomi was trying to accomplish on the USS BoobyTrap. 
But things got worse in this episode. The cuts between ships and crew members was not done well enough to clearly convey what was happening.  Without having established the profiles of particular ships, I could not tell what was happening during the Rocci space battle.  I could not tell any of the ships apart in Drummer's attack group.
And again, with the attack on the Ring Gate - it was difficult to tell who was doing what to whom.
It's not as if the spaceships are as distinctive as the Millennium Falcon...

Edited February 9, 2021 by shrewd.buddha

[Eulipian 5k]

Finally looked it up:

Vredefort Crater

Asteroid impact date: Estimated 2 billion years ago

Location: Free State, South Africa

Specs: Also known as the Vredefort Dome, the Vredefort crater has an estimated radius of 118 miles (190 kilometers), making it the world's largest known impact structure. This crater was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2005. The impact occurred southwest of what is now Johannesburg, South Africa, and temporarily made a 40-kilometer-deep and 100-kilometer-wide dent in the surface.

Philadelphia is ~100 miles each way between NYC and Baltimore, so the 2nd asteroid hit (40 miles north of Phila) would greatly impact both cities if it was a biggie like the one above.

(2 billion years ago is about the time the proto-molecule ended up on Phoebe, hmm)

[Joimiaroxeu]

Aw yeah, Drummer stepped up and handled her business. Buh bye Karal. You backed the wrong team.

Naomi has all the courage. She's amazing.

Wait, Alex died just like that? I'm not mad though. It was funny foreshadowing when they zoomed in on Bull drinking from Alex's cup. I wondered what that was all about and then later we found out.

I love how Amos played Holden to get Clarissa on board. He's grown so much from his harrowing sojourn on Earth.

So are Amos and Clarissa an item now or will there be a Clarissa/Amos/Monica triangle next season?

Wait, what, that's how they're leaving things? I wanted Marco to be dead by now. Oh well, more time for the show to make his death extra spectacular. I'm still thinking Filip will be the one to take his psycho daddy out for good.

Quote

was hoping for a more violent rebellion from Drummer. Much more violent.

I read elsewhere that the actress was well into her pregnancy during the filming. That may have limited how physically active she could be in her scenes.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[wanderingstar]

Quote

the new MCRN (Mars Cut-throat Rogue Navy)

Ha! This is accurate.

[edhopper]

Marco smoulders like he is auditioning for a Channel Homme ad.

[Tyro49]

So next season is to be the last. They still have book 8 to go through, and a lot happened there (wow! was my reaction), but I can see how that can be condensed in some way. Book 9, which was supposed to come out last year seems to have been delayed to this, will, as I understand it, cover the final question, i.e., what happened to whoever or whatever built the protomolecule and the ring gates. I can only hope that the authors and the showrunners have gotten together so that the show can conclude with approximately the same ending as the book series. Here's hoping. Anyone have any info on this??

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, Tyro49 said:

. Anyone have any info on this??

Follow me to the books thread.

[MissLucas]

Took some time before I came across this - detailed battle analysis.

 

[wanderingstar]

My random thoughts on the finale.

Bobbie's rescue of Naomi was fantastic! Hearing Bobbie’s muffled voice was like a balm.

Alex’s death being abrupt was necessary due to the allegations against Cas Anvar; but I also think it works in the context of the show. This is a universe where space travel is always dangerous, so Alex stroking out after a high-g burn is right in line with everything we’ve been shown about the dangers of spaceflight in this world.

The space battle between the Tynan, the Serrio Mal, and the Koto sure looked amazing – even if I didn’t understand much of what was happening-lol

Drummer took a stand and it cost her the family she’s come to rely on. Still, I don’t think she’ll regret it at all. She’s always loathed Marco and resented having to throw in with him.

Others have mentioned that maybe Bull will replace Alex as the Roci’s pilot (Bull drinking out of Alex’s mug was a bit on the nose). If that’s the case, the writers have set it up well, with Bull and Holden developing a grudging mutual respect over the course of the season.

Loved seeing everyone gather on Luna, particularly Bobbie and Avasarala’s reunion.

Seeing the Earth leadership put their hope in the MCRN ships to protect Sol Gate was a sight to behold. There was a time when the mere mention of the word MCRN in the UN sit room would’ve garnered only hissing. How times change.

Amos bringing Clarissa onto the Roci the way he did was hilarious (“Thanks for being cool about this”). Holden’s WTF face when Clarissa walked up was so so perfect.

Looks like the rogue Martians will be dialing up the fascistic tendencies in their new society. So that should be fun. Not so fun, the Barkeith getting eaten by those Unknown Aggressors. Fuck around and find out, I guess.

A great end to a terrific season, easily my favorite of the series.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Gillian Rosh

[Ziggy]

On 4/3/2021 at 4:32 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Amos bringing Clarissa onto the Roci the way he did was hilarious (“Thanks for being cool about this”). Holden’s WTF face when Clarissa walked up was so so perfect.

That was just so Amos!   I was almost in tears watching that scene.

[GustavMahler]

So I guess, specifically, the red swatches of Rootin Tootin Raspberry juice that destroyed the Martian ship at the end, is the same entity that destroyed the Boo Berry civilization that Miller was part of. So the final season is a showdown with  Big Boss Rootin while the children known as Earthers, Martians and Belters squabble not realizing they will be stepped on like ants. This entire series always produced a shadow of Babylon 5 in my murky mind while I watched it and we shall see if Holden is treading a path that was forged by John Sheridan.

Edited September 9, 2021 by GustavMahler

[cleo]

Alex dying whatever. I felt bad for the actress stuck in the same monotonous scene with him for almost the entire season. What a tremendous waste.

I thought right to the bitter end Filip was going to kill his father. Don't think he can be redeemed at this point.

I was really opposed to Clarissa being around but she really grew on me. Reminds me of Buffy where some of the gang were mass murderers lol. But reformed so it's all good.

I enjoyed it better than last season, but I'm bummed only one season left especially bc it seems there is more story to tell.