S02.E04: Zoey’s Extraordinary Employee

[shapeshifter]

49 minutes ago, HappyBerry said:

And Jenna is growing on me.

The character of Jenna has had such a personality remake that I doubted she was the same sister who had driven Emily nuts a couple of episodes ago.

[bros402]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:37 AM, Good Queen Jane said:

It's strange to introduce a new recurring character only to drop him four weeks later, but I read that the actor playing George is in another series that restarted filming. That's the same thing that happened to the actor playing Joan. Another thing to curse COVID for.

I really like the songs that they have been doing, but the dances all seem the same. Lots of leaping and slinking around. I guess that must be Mandy Moore's style but I would like to see some different choreography.

Go watch What We Do In The Shadows. He is brilliant.

On 1/27/2021 at 3:04 PM, luna1122 said:

How can you go and fire Guillermo???!

Drunk Zoey was funny. But the last thing she needs is yet another guy. For a chick with absolutely no game, she sure gets a lot of cute boyz.

I never ever found Skylar Astin especially hot in the Pitch Perfect flicks, but I do find him really sexy here.

Guillermo obviously has to go find Jackie Daytona.

15 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ah, yes, the cousin to the "you have to be a fighter" philosophy, as if that means anyone who dies from an illness was just lazy or gave up.

oh god I hate that stuff. "omg ur so strong ur a fighter!"

I have cancer, I didn't choose to have it. I'm dealing with it, not fighting it. It's not something where you give up.

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

"Fake it until you make it" only goes so far. I also find the philosophy offensive when it's used for illnesses such as cancer. "Oh, you must not have been positive enough in your outlook," and all that crap. Fuck you.

Seriously. And really, doesn't Max know Mo at all? What Mo is doing—setting the vibe, getting people comfortable enough to do karaoke, etc.—isn't easy. Max couldn't do that anymore than Mo could write up a detailed business plan. They really do need to sit down and figure out who does what. And then not resent the other person for their duties.

Yup, all of this.

This episode was feeling like one of the weaker ones musically until I'll Stand By You - that was a good one.

[Trini]

On re-watch, it's unclear whether Tatiana is a love interest for Simon, but she definitely isn't one for Mo. She would have had an actual scene with Mo if that was the case*. Maybe they gave her that line about Mo to explain why they were chatting (because we didn't get to see the chat).

*Contrast that with how they introduced Aiden. Because while I don't think that's going anywhere, you can see how people would think that just from his one short scene with Zoey.

[possibilities]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:37 AM, Good Queen Jane said:

the dances all seem the same. Lots of leaping and slinking around. I guess that must be Mandy Moore's style

I really don't enjoy that style at all. In fact, I hate it. And they're using it a lot lately. 

Last season, Zoey had to do something to help someone when she heard a song. This season, she's just listening mostly. It's like the show has totally abandoned the premise. It's more just a straight up musical now.

[FnkyChkn34]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Last season, Zoey had to do something to help someone when she heard a song. This season, she's just listening mostly. It's like the show has totally abandoned the premise. It's more just a straight up musical now.

It seems like most of the songs this season are already a reaction to something Zoey (or someone else) has done.  I agree that it does seem like it's shifted.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Last season, Zoey had to do something to help someone when she heard a song. This season, she's just listening mostly. It's like the show has totally abandoned the premise. It's more just a straight up musical now.

There have been shows in the past that had weak second seasons and then rebounded. I expect the pandemic fallout will produce a lot of weak seasons on shows this year. Even if social distancing and masking has to continue throughout 2021 and even into 2022, by then production crews should have had sufficient time to adapt more fully.

 

[FnkyChkn34]

22 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

There have been shows in the past that had weak second seasons and then rebounded. I expect the pandemic fallout will produce a lot of weak seasons on shows this year. Even if social distancing and masking has to continue throughout 2021 and even into 2022, by then production crews should have had sufficient time to adapt more fully.

 

With sufficient vaccines and continued testing, shows shouldn't really have an issue with the pandemic soon.  The actors just have to agree to it and be comfortable, and most are already.  I blame the pandemic for shortened seasons and depressing storylines (the shows that are covering it, not this one), but nothing obvious between the actors on the screen, in my opinion.  I'm not sure if you mean that you're seeing social distancing on the screen, but I'm not - the family unit all gathers in one room, Zoey visits Mo in his apartment, they even had the karaoke party and love scenes.  Masks and social distancing behind the scenes by the crew shouldn't be a problem.

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm not sure if you mean that you're seeing social distancing on the screen

In a lot of the shots where 2 characters are sitting and talking they are a little farther apart than is typical, and when the angle shows both actors, the near one is blurred, which makes me think they are actually farther apart than we are led to believe. 
But maybe this is just Pandemic Thinking on my part and it's always been like this?

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, HappyBerry said:

I've got friends that are outside the Bay Area and their daycare runs them about $20,000 and that's with a discount because my friend works for the university the daycare is at. I can see it costing significantly more actually in San Francisco 

When my friend’s second child was born, child care costs were 75% of her salary. This is NYC, her kids are 3 years apart. If she had quit, they’d have been in basically the same financial place, essentially living on her husband’s salary. (She loves her work and wouldn’t quit, not that anyone has asked her to. Her elder child is in kindergarten now, which helps.)

Emily apparently likes her BigLaw job - they said she’s eager to get back to work. David doesn’t like his, he makes less and he genuinely wants to be home. Plus I would guess he can go back to work in a few years once the kid(s) are in school, if he wants - there’s always a need for public defenders. 

[chaifan]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The character of Jenna has had such a personality remake that I doubted she was the same sister who had driven Emily nuts a couple of episodes ago.

I wouldn't quite say the character has been remade, but rather she has been given a purpose.  So often shows introduce the wacky relative for the sole purpose of having someone wacky on screen.  Here, they've given Jenna an outlet for her wackiness - being a creative inspiration for Maggie.  I like how they did this.  It tones the character down, and gives meaning behind the wacky.  

I like Jenna, but I wish they had figured out a way to bring Howie back and have him play this role with Maggie.  I really liked those two together.  (Not in a romantic way!) 

[hnygrl]

I can't believe I'm writing this.  This season sucks ass. 

Dammit. 

[ciubecca98]

52 minutes ago, hnygrl said:

I can't believe I'm writing this.  This season sucks ass. 

Dammit. 

unfortunately it is true compared to the first there is no comparison and if they do not change course I fear for a renewal

[seacliffsal]

This season continues to be a disappointment for me.  I get the pathos of firing George, but where was that pathos for the guy who had worked there for years and scored the winning spike in the company volleyball game?  And, coming in with her hangover, I would expect Zoey to be the one to get fired.

The timeline is a bit confusing, but I cannot imagine anyone who knew about Mitch's death to ask out his widow only 3-4 months after his death.  And the date to Big Sur/Ventana?  Totally romantic. 

Also, isn't the meditation room supposed to be for meditation and not long-winded talks/discussions?  

[hnygrl]

1. Too many plot lines

2. Not enough character development 

3. Zoey’s alllll over the place. This is the chick hand picked to run the entire 4th floor? The hell? She’s blatantly incompetent. Ick.  
4. What happened to LEIF??? Who is this wimpy, wussy little shit? What happened  to the badass that was boning the boss? The same one who told his homeboy Tobin to GROW UP if he wanted to be taken seriously? That this is work, not a frat house? Suddenly he can’t find the stones to LEAD?? The man who came up with a totally new product? Suddenly he’s a wussy???

And that preview from next week’s show has me convinced I should maybe quit watching live and just do something else Tuesday nights.  Yuck. 
 

Seriously. Did they get new writers over break? These ain’t the same folks. 

I was willing to give them a few episodes to ‘get where they’re going’ the way they did last season but...it just gets worse and worse till I don’t even care any more. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by hnygrl

[bros402]

S02E03 and S02E04 have definitely been the weak points of the series so far, but I think they'll right the ship soon. I'm guessing how long the pandemic has lasted threw a wrench in their plans. I think without the pandemic, Zoey would've been canned.

[possibilities]

4 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

And the date to Big Sur/Ventana?  Totally romantic. 

Yeah. He didn't say "Let's get coffee sometime" or even "I'd like to take you to dinner." That was a big move, especially for a first date.

 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Yeah. He didn't say "Let's get coffee sometime" or even "I'd like to take you to dinner." That was a big move, especially for a first date.

 

When she hesitated, he could have added, “we would each have our own room/suite” if he was half as suave as he probably thought he was.

But I appreciate him just taking “no” for an answer. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by shapeshifter

[D Angel]

11 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Seriously. Did they get new writers over break? These ain’t the same folks. 

I was willing to give them a few episodes to ‘get where they’re going’ the way they did last season but...it just gets worse and worse till I don’t even care any more. 

As I've mentioned elsewhere on the site, this is a fair criticism of an otherwise very good show. For Season 1 I often committed to friends in promoting the show that it was more than the sum of its parts. This hasn't been true for S2 at all, with most shows just roughly equal to the sum of its parts, and sometimes less. I wouldn't say it's getting "worse and worse", but more drifting about.

The actor performances haven't regressed. The songs and dancing are still solid and evocative. And the dialog is pretty much as sharp as in S1. S2 has also had its moments, but the emotional punch is missing.

I trace the show's drifting to the lack of a progressive story arc. I'm a writer and study these things and what S1 had in spades, S2 doesn't have really at all. They correctly resolve the love triangle problem right away, rather than pursue that dead end story arc, but then unresolve it. A progressive story arc for Max & Zoey's relationship could have been enough to givev the plot forward momentum. But now that's ... where exactly? On "pause". Talk about drifting!

There's an old saw -- but correct -- that all story arc break down into two categories: A man (or woman) goes on a journey, and a stranger comes to town. Those are just placeholders for "discovery" and "upheaval" respectively. These are the two most compelling recurrent themes of human experience. S1 was definitely an upheaval story arc: Zoey gets are power and Mitch is going to die, with the metaphorical "strangers" being the 'power' and 'PSP disease'. Even the SPRQ Point story arc has mostly been about upheaval. The problem with strangers coming to town is that they don't stay strangers forever so it doesn't make for a good long-running series story arc. Going on a journey, with periodic upheaval episodes tend to remain compelling for longer runs. Think Star Trek.

So what compelling journey/discovery story arcs can Zoey's pursue. They've nixed the Zoey & Max relationship. Mo's search for lasting love is idled. Simon's pretty much over his grief, as is Zoey. SPQR Point is still in upheaval, with layoffs and pudding bars. The ONLY discovery story arc is Max & Mo's restaurant business which is not real compelling and also very poorly executed as a realistic business story arc. It could be improved, but only with better realism and jumping ahead to actually opening for better or worse.

I have two recommendations for more compelling discovery story arcs:

Zoey and some of her coworkers ditch SPRQ Point (or get some seed money from them) to start their own business focusing on assistive technology as inspired by Zoey's experience with Howie and his deaf daughter Abigail. THAT'S got potential.

Zoey goes on a spiritual journey to get answers to the three main questions associated with her powers: how it works, what is the purpose behind the power, and why is she the one who has it. If the show fails to answer these questions for the audience and barely even tries, it's just a MacGuffin so they can do songs and dances as part of the show without it being ridiculous.

S1 with the realistic portrayal of Mitch's disease and its progression to his death, and the emotions of those around him, really nailed it. I'm still hopeful they can turn S2 around since S1 proved to be a special show. S1 didn't really take off until the 2nd half, so maybe they have it mapped out. The actors all love it so they will work like crazy to make it work and watchable. I'll stick with it until it jumps the shark.

 

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, hnygrl said:

3. Zoey’s alllll over the place. This is the chick hand picked to run the entire 4th floor? The hell? She’s blatantly incompetent. Ick.  

Still haven't figured out what her job even really is. Then again, I never could figure out how this company is supposed to work. Even in S1, two completely separate coding departments on different floors? I mean, I get that different groups might work on different projects, but their setup just seems weird. The fifth floor is this mysterious elite coding place, while the fourth floor has at least 3 or 4 completely different departments and there is one boss over all of them (coders, marketing, HR)?

And even for a super-modern tech company, it seems odd that an executive director of, apparently, multiple departments has pretty much nothing in her office except a laptop and a smartphone (and some uncomfortable cardboard chairs).

[Trini]

Besides expanding on some of the supporting characters, the arc this season is Zoey's "journey" with grief. She's trying different things, so I suppose she is 'all over the place'.

There are a few things I don't like, but I'm enjoying things more than I'm not this season.

[bros402]

14 hours ago, D Angel said:

I have two recommendations for more compelling discovery story arcs:

Zoey and some of her coworkers ditch SPRQ Point (or get some seed money from them) to start their own business focusing on assistive technology as inspired by Zoey's experience with Howie and his deaf daughter Abigail. THAT'S got potential.

Zoey goes on a spiritual journey to get answers to the three main questions associated with her powers: how it works, what is the purpose behind the power, and why is she the one who has it. If the show fails to answer these questions for the audience and barely even tries, it's just a MacGuffin so they can do songs and dances as part of the show without it being ridiculous.

S1 with the realistic portrayal of Mitch's disease and its progression to his death, and the emotions of those around him, really nailed it. I'm still hopeful they can turn S2 around since S1 proved to be a special show. S1 didn't really take off until the 2nd half, so maybe they have it mapped out. The actors all love it so they will work like crazy to make it work and watchable. I'll stick with it until it jumps the shark.

 

I would love an AT storyline and Abigail coming back - maybe it's an issue with the actress as to why she can't come back - maybe she wouldn't/couldn't do the quarantine procedure needed (since the other deaf actors in her music scene were part of a deaf acting troupe) for production - could be a whole bunch of reasons. Would be nice if Maggie at least said something like "I emailed Howie and he's doing well, oh and Zoey he said Abigail might be sending you an email soon, since she's coming home from Africa (I think she wanted to go to Kenya?) soon."

14 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Still haven't figured out what her job even really is. Then again, I never could figure out how this company is supposed to work. Even in S1, two completely separate coding departments on different floors? I mean, I get that different groups might work on different projects, but their setup just seems weird. The fifth floor is this mysterious elite coding place, while the fourth floor has at least 3 or 4 completely different departments and there is one boss over all of them (coders, marketing, HR)?

And even for a super-modern tech company, it seems odd that an executive director of, apparently, multiple departments has pretty much nothing in her office except a laptop and a smartphone (and some uncomfortable cardboard chairs).

I believe her current job is in charge of every single employee on the fourth floor of the company, which seems to be one floor dedicated to a single project. The 4th floor seems to be devoted to the SPRQPoint Watch, and the 5th (or was it 6th?) floor seems to be R&D (from the look we got last season). I think someone in an earlier topic said they encountered a company with a similar layout?

It'd make more sense if HR was on one floor, then have the floors as they are currently - since then they could at least go "oh the floor managers need to oversee the people in charge of their marketing/coding/engineering directly in order to have it work the best"

3 hours ago, Trini said:

There are a few things I don't like, but I'm enjoying things more than I'm not this season.

Same, although I think this season has been a bit weaker musically... but last season did end with the oner of American Pie

[Maverick]

 I watch largely for the music/musical numbers and this episode was the worst yet for that.  Probably the worst episode of the series overall.  

 

[bros402]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

 I watch largely for the music/musical numbers and this episode was the worst yet for that.  Probably the worst episode of the series overall.  

 

I liked I'll Stand By You. That was probably the best musical number this episode

[Maverick]

 I'll Stand By You was ok. Love the song, it just wasn't enough to salvage this episode. 

As crass as it may sound, Mitch's rapidly declining condition was the thread that held everything in season 1 together.  In theory his death should be driving season 2, but it's not working.  

 Ultimately the show is about Zoey, so spinning Max and Mo into their own subplot where she has virtually no involvement makes it feel disconnected.  Simon feels like he's just there until Zoey can't make up her mind part 2.  I wish they had just put them being together romantically to bed and let them bed good friends bonded by grief.  They're trying to have them bond, but it's just an avenue to more will they won't they.  

 The office staff story is a mess.  Leif was kind of almost interesting when he appeared to be full on villain using his boss to get ahead.  But then they decided it was true love and he was a sap.   Now he's just back to being an arrogant dbag.  There doesn't seem to be any growth or arc for him  If new guy is so bad (that even he knows he's not that great) why did it take an algorithm to figure it out?   How was he hired on the first place?

 When new guy was so overly perky and into Zoey when she returned and just off in general I thought maybe the character would eventually be revealed to be somehow connected to whatever gave her her powers.  

 I still wonder if they'll go there eventually, either as part of the plan not a way to extend the shelf life of the show.  I can see it being like Quantum Leap/Early Edition where they get mysterious clue but never really get an answer, with Max and Mo as the Scooby Gang helping Zoey trying to figure it out. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Maverick said:

 I'll Stand By You was ok. Love the song, it just wasn't enough to salvage this episode. 

As crass as it may sound, Mitch's rapidly declining condition was the thread that held everything in season 1 together.  In theory his death should be driving season 2, but it's not working.  

 Ultimately the show is about Zoey, so spinning Max and Mo into their own subplot where she has virtually no involvement makes it feel disconnected.  Simon feels like he's just there until Zoey can't make up her mind part 2.  I wish they had just put them being together romantically to bed and let them bed good friends bonded by grief.  They're trying to have them bond, but it's just an avenue to more will they won't they.  

 The office staff story is a mess.  Leif was kind of almost interesting when he appeared to be full on villain using his boss to get ahead.  But then they decided it was true love and he was a sap.   Now he's just back to being an arrogant dbag.  There doesn't seem to be any growth or arc for him  If new guy is so bad (that even he knows he's not that great) why did it take an algorithm to figure it out?   How was he hired on the first place?

 When new guy was so overly perky and into Zoey when she returned and just off in general I thought maybe the character would eventually be revealed to be somehow connected to whatever gave her her powers.  

 I still wonder if they'll go there eventually, either as part of the plan not a way to extend the shelf life of the show.  I can see it being like Quantum Leap/Early Edition where they get mysterious clue but never really get an answer, with Max and Mo as the Scooby Gang helping Zoey trying to figure it out. 

Lots of good thoughts, @Maverick. Too bad you're not in the writers' room.
Adding my 2¢: I had assumed Zoey's music in her head was going to be a symptom of a neurological condition that may or may not be like what her dad had, and that would drive Season 2.  Kind of like Eli Stone but maybe going in a different direction. Like maybe "just" psychological combined with a keen but realistic ability to read people.
Didn't her music start with a brain scan? I can't recall.

Anyway, back to the episode. Who was the "extraordinary" employee?

[Trini]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Anyway, back to the episode. Who was the "extraordinary" employee?

I think it was supposed to be George.

15 hours ago, Maverick said:

I wish they had just put them being together romantically to bed and let them bed good friends bonded by grief. 

Mileage varies I guess, because to me this is exactly what has happened.

[Maverick]

 Yes they're friends right now but given the short length and issue with her relationship with Max I feel like they're going back to that well eventually. 

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Didn't her music start with a brain scan? I can't recall

 She was getting an MRI. The was playing music as they do in MRIs when an earthquake hit.  I think there were flashes of different musical performances while the quake shook the machine around Zoey.  The implication was that the earthquake caused a malfunction that allowed the MRI to download Pandora into Zoey's brain. 

[90PercentGravity]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:08 AM, dubbel zout said:

Which is what one has to do, really. Zoey already had six weeks (offscreen) of leave; if she can't get it together enough after that, she needs some serious counseling. I don't mean she should be over Mitch's death—my dad died 20 years ago, and my heart aches for him every day—but it shouldn't be the all-consuming factor of her life at this point.

I think the problem is balancing the still-raw feelings of grief with trying to figure out life without Mitch. It's hard, and I have sympathy for the writers. But moving on is the next step, and it's inevitable. The writers are flailing a bit.

I lost my dad in July and I got 4 days before I had to start taking customer service calls again while also battling COVID and having daily panic attacks. I certainly have sympathy for her loss, but the privilege her and her family has is sometimes galling.

Was I supposed to be interested in the garage band guy? He looks 14.

[ciubecca98]

7 minutes ago, 90PercentGravity said:

I lost my dad in July and I got 4 days before I had to start taking customer service calls again while also battling COVID and having daily panic attacks. I certainly have sympathy for her loss, but the privilege her and her family has is sometimes galling.

Was I supposed to be interested in the garage band guy? He looks 14.

no has 22 but I hope it is not as they are making us believe !!!!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 1/26/2021 at 8:36 PM, brokenwing29 said:

How is Aiden(?) Australian and with a full-on accent if he grew up in California next to Zoey?

They didn't specify how long he had lived next door to Zoey. The only info we got was this:

Zoey: You mean Aiden? That little Australian chunk-a-munk? I didn't know he was back home. What's he been up to?
Maggie: You mean besides losing his hearing? I don't know. I'm gonna go talk to him.
Zoey: No, I will. I haven't seen him in years. Happy to give that little butterball a smackdown.

Maggie said earlier that he moved back home after college so he's around 22-23. I guesstimated Zoey to be in her late 20s and the internet says that she's 29 (I don't remember if the show ever explicitly mentioned her age but sounds close enough to me). That makes her about 6-7 years older than Aiden, so he was around 12-13 and in middle school when she left for college which is why she still think of him as a kid, but that doesn't mean he lived next door to her all his life. For all we know, he could have moved there right before she graduated from high school.

The older you are when you move, the harder it is to lose your accent. A girl I went to high school with moved from Australia to California when she was really young, so she had no Australian accent except when she read aloud (I think she said she was 5 or 6 when she moved). What made it funny is that I had French with her so the only time I heard her Australian accent was when she was reading aloud in French. Her sister was two years older and she still had an Australian accent.

ETA: Ha, Zoey's age is confirmed as 29 in S2.E5!
 

Edited February 3, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo