Unpopular Opinions

[romantic idiot]

Agreed about the AB vs AH bit. But there ws never any heat there for me. I'm never sure I ever stopped missing Oz.

[SosaLola]

I'm also indifferent to Tara. She's sweet and nice and I'm far more into flawed and complicated characters. 

[nobody30]

Having recently rewatched a a lot of episodes from different seasons, I have to say that I started to get really tired of Xander, so maybe that's an unpopular opinion, or not, I don't know.

 

I mean he has his moments, and very funny lines, I wouldn't wanna miss them, but I got really tired of him lately.

 

First of all the whole "I hate Angel, and want to see him dead" behaviour really had it's low points throughout the first 3 seasons.

 

Then he has the hots for every girl around him, and I mean really literally every! girl at some point, Buffy, Willow, Cordelia, Anya, Faith, and even Dawn, seems like every girl is his type, and it's not always about sex alone. 

 

And while his behaviour was at least somehow funny and understandable as a teenager, it really turned extremely pathetic later on, the low point maybe leaving Anya at the altar, and not meaning it afterwards, but bringing up the marriage and proposing all by himself in the first place.

 

Sometimes I got the impression they had to make him screw up that much,  and portray him as a goofy likable (not in my opnion) loser, because they didn't know what else to do with the character.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know he is good hearted and he was always there for the gang, but still...

[nobody30]

I'm also in the minority who really loves the first stretch of season 7. It feels like the season has a more mature tone, while bringing back the lighter touches that were missing in season six. Unfortunately, the writers were so into making one big epic storyline that trumps all that they kind of lost sight of what Buffy so much fun in the first place. While I'm not against serialised arcs (season four of Angel was one of my favorite seasons after all), what I loved about Buffy during the first six seasons was that everything was kind of rooted in reality and that Buffy and her friends dealt with regular problems as well and not just with supernatural. All the wonderful character stuff got lost after Conversations with Dead People. And I hated what they did to Giles in the final episodes.

 

I totally agree with you. The first few episodes of seasons 7 are one of my favourite parts of the whole show too. One of my favourite scenes ever is the one where The First haunts Spike in the basement of Sunnydale High at the end of the first episode, and morphs into every big villain there ever was on the show, and finally into Buffy, with the closing line: "It's not about right. Not about wrong. It's about power." Chills!!!

 

I absolutely loved the idea of The First at the beginning, an enemy that could not be seen or touched, that could trick your mind, and "from beneath you it devours", it created a great atmosphere of darkness and fear. 

 

And there where a lot of good moments an episodes, very personal stuff that made the show great, like Spike's return and confession to have a soul (the scene in the curch hanging over the cross), like Willow returning, like Anya being back in the world of vengeance (and a glimpse into her past) and her face-off with Buffy, like "Conversations with Dead People".

 

Unfortunatly, and I agree with you on that too, that touch got completely lost in last 2/3rds of the season. It wasn't about the gang anymore, it was about one last epic fight, a battle of armies, or whatever. I was really disappointed when I first watched it back then, and I still am. I guess Joss Whedon thought he had to create something that even trumps all other battles and finales, I mean Buffy already died twice and the world alomst ended every season. But it got into some superhero comics direction that lacked the personal touch the show always had, at least to me.

 

And by the way, if you are not that much into comics, but you love the show, don't read the Buffy comics, seriously DON'T, it only get's worse in them. I have read them for a while, because naturally I was curious on how the story would go on after the finale, and at first it was ok to find out about it, but after a while it was just *bumm*, *bang* *pow* with hilariously stupid storylines. I don't want to give away anything, I'll just say so much that I stopped reading them after Buffy and Angel have a screw-marathon while flying in some alternate dimension, which could destroy the earth, or something, I don't remember precisely anymore.

Edited October 7, 2015 by nobody30

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Don't get me wrong, I know he is good hearted and he was always there for the gang, but still...

 

Not to crank up the "Xander Sux!/Xander Is Awesome!" debate, but there's a few points of order that I always find relevant.

 

The biggest argument against him is that he wanted Angel dead, but if that's true, then why did he sit quietly by when the big dope was poisoned by Faith? Why does he inform Buffy that Faith has left the library and is on her way to stake him because of finding Giles unconscious in the library? Wouldn't it have been the easiest thing in the world to keep his mouth shut and let things run their course, likely resulting in Angel filling up a dustpan because Buffy wasn't there to stop Faith's stake from striking home? Okay, he was snotty when he said "Faith's a big girl, she can make up her own mind", but considering that Buffy had been lying her narrow little behind off regarding Angel's reappearance, I am less than a hundred percent inclined to hold snottiness against him.

 

The second biggest argument is that he was rude and snarky whenever Angel was around, which doesn't really mean much IMO First of all, as if Angel gave a crap what Xander thought, and secondly, Xander was the one who got physically assaulted when Buffy cooked up her asinine plan to pretend that Angelus was back. Words don't actually hurt anyone, but punches in the head without either provocation or later apology generally do.

 

As for Anya, she tried her damnedest to get his friends to wish him dead while it was played for laughs, and when they failed to comply she got pissed off at them. I mostly liked Anya, who unlike other certain serial killers at least tried to not be an asshole every waking minute, but if she had had her way about it she'd have seen Xander opened up like a Ziploc bag. I hardly think that's a fair trade just because he left her at the altar. Particularly when it was one of her past victims who fooled him with that vision. YMMV.

[nobody30]

 

Not to crank up the "Xander Sux!/Xander Is Awesome!" debate, but there's a few points of order that I always find relevant.

 

The biggest argument against him is that he wanted Angel dead, but if that's true, then why did he sit quietly by when the big dope was poisoned by Faith? Why does he inform Buffy that Faith has left the library and is on her way to stake him because of finding Giles unconscious in the library? Wouldn't it have been the easiest thing in the world to keep his mouth shut and let things run their course, likely resulting in Angel filling up a dustpan because Buffy wasn't there to stop Faith's stake from striking home? Okay, he was snotty when he said "Faith's a big girl, she can make up her own mind", but considering that Buffy had been lying her narrow little behind off regarding Angel's reappearance, I am less than a hundred percent inclined to hold snottiness against him.

 

The second biggest argument is that he was rude and snarky whenever Angel was around, which doesn't really mean much IMO First of all, as if Angel gave a crap what Xander thought, and secondly, Xander was the one who got physically assaulted when Buffy cooked up her asinine plan to pretend that Angelus was back. Words don't actually hurt anyone, but punches in the head without either provocation or later apology generally do.

 

As for Anya, she tried her damnedest to get his friends to wish him dead while it was played for laughs, and when they failed to comply she got pissed off at them. I mostly liked Anya, who unlike other certain serial killers at least tried to not be an asshole every waking minute, but if she had had her way about it she'd have seen Xander opened up like a Ziploc bag. I hardly think that's a fair trade just because he left her at the altar. Particularly when it was one of her past victims who fooled him with that vision. YMMV.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally there with you, and I agree with all the points you made. In fact, I don't hate Xander at all, I just started to get tired of him lately, as I said.

 

The main reason not being that he wanted to see Angel dead, or that he left Anya at the altar, but that he is that kind of personality that takes exactly zero responsibilitiy for his descisions and actions, besides admitting that he has been a fool and screwed up, again. He is that kind of guy that is so "unfortunate", beacause bad things just "happen" to him all the time, when in fact it was his choice every time all along, screwing up the life of people around him as well.

 

And while I maybe could relate to that as a teenager, I'm rather tired of that kind of behaviour more than 10 years later, especially of grown up Xander.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

And while I maybe could relate to that as a teenager, I'm rather tired of that kind of behaviour more than 10 years later, especially of grown up Xander.

 

Not for nothing, but Xander skirting taking responsibility for his actions makes him pretty much exactly like both Buffy and Willow.

 

I'm slightly more willing to cut Buffy some slack because of being the Slayer, but for all that she claimed to resent the burden of it, she also used it as a way to think she was better than her friends.And to be all "Woe is me, life is so terrible" when things weren't going well. She gets caught harboring Angel? Blame Xander for "spying" on her. Riley needs something from her other than the Great Stone Face? Shut him out because she has to be strong. Giles and Wood hatch a plan to get rid of Spike because she refuses to listen to them saying he's dangerous? Turn her back on the man who defied years of tradition to stand by her. Its not her fault, its their fault. Always.

 

Willow? Well, she yanked Tara's brain inside out and then tried to blow up the world, but it wasn't really her doing, she was addicted to magick. And that's just the cherry on top. Hell, Willow got an all-expenses paid trip to the English countryside to ride horses with one of her near-victims, and then was rewarded with a new girlfriend. Whatever Kennedy was or wasn't, she was specifically earmarked for Willow. Even if it was only because they couldn't get Dushku early enough in the season to throw Faith at her.

 

Is it annoying that Xander never really grows up until the last season? Maybe. But it isn't unusual, either. Not when the other two main characters also regress to a pre-high school level themselves. What would have been unusual is if he had grown up before they did. And if the rumors are true about Whedon taking NB aside and saying he was "done" with Xander as a character some time around season four, there was about a slim to none chance of that.

[nobody30]

 

Not for nothing, but Xander skirting taking responsibility for his actions makes him pretty much exactly like both Buffy and Willow.

 

I'm slightly more willing to cut Buffy some slack because of being the Slayer, but for all that she claimed to resent the burden of it, she also used it as a way to think she was better than her friends.And to be all "Woe is me, life is so terrible" when things weren't going well. She gets caught harboring Angel? Blame Xander for "spying" on her. Riley needs something from her other than the Great Stone Face? Shut him out because she has to be strong. Giles and Wood hatch a plan to get rid of Spike because she refuses to listen to them saying he's dangerous? Turn her back on the man who defied years of tradition to stand by her. Its not her fault, its their fault. Always.

 

Willow? Well, she yanked Tara's brain inside out and then tried to blow up the world, but it wasn't really her doing, she was addicted to magick. And that's just the cherry on top. Hell, Willow got an all-expenses paid trip to the English countryside to ride horses with one of her near-victims, and then was rewarded with a new girlfriend. Whatever Kennedy was or wasn't, she was specifically earmarked for Willow. Even if it was only because they couldn't get Dushku early enough in the season to throw Faith at her.

 

Is it annoying that Xander never really grows up until the last season? Maybe. But it isn't unusual, either. Not when the other two main characters also regress to a pre-high school level themselves. What would have been unusual is if he had grown up before they did. And if the rumors are true about Whedon taking NB aside and saying he was "done" with Xander as a character some time around season four, there was about a slim to none chance of that.

 

You're right, but I didn't mind that much when it came to Buffy and Willow, because I could always feel their inner struggle and pain, the story centered around their failures and irresposibilities. Xander, on the other Hand, was just there and failed, on a regular basis.

 

I didn't know that Whedon might have said to NB that he was done with Xander as a character so early, but looking back it kind of makes sense. On the other hand, if you are done with a character, then you better kill him off in a dramatic and heartbreaking way, to give him the credit he deserves, BTVS didn't have any major character deaths (besides Buffy dying twice and coming back every time) anyway.

[amensisterfriend]

Is it unpopular to have really enjoyed Amy and wish she were around more often...?! Honestly, I can't even explain why. It's not like she was among the show's most vibrant, distinctive, highly amusing or well-defined characters, but pre-S6 Amy just always had a certain presence that I really liked. She felt like a 'real' person and was always kind of ethically complex, a decent person with just enough darkness, resentment and insecurity to let you know that she could go the other way. I also felt she blended in really naturally with the rest of the group. And, yes, I do hold the related UO of loving both The Witch and Gingerbread more than nearly any other BtVS viewer out there :) 

[Fat Elvis 007]

Nobody30 and nosleepforme, if you're willing to give the comics another shot, I must say Season 10 is a HUGE improvement, not only on Seasons 8 and 9, but also compared to the last two seasons of the TV series. The focus is back on the characters, the tone is lighter and more fun, and the storylines for each character are all about them striving to become healthier people while being young in a big city. The Scooby relationships haven't felt this authentic since the early seasons of the show. There's still too much of an emphasis on magic, but for the most part it's used in service of the characters rather than the plot, and most issues are fairly self-contained. Solid stuff.

amensisterfriend, I didn't love Amy, but I did like her, and really hated her character assassination after she was de-ratted. You're right that she felt like a normal person, and having characters like her in the early seasons helped the world feel more lived in. I always liked seeing the Scoobies talk to people not in their immediate group of friends.

Cobalt Stargazer:

Whatever Kennedy was or wasn't, she was specifically earmarked for Willow. Even if it was only because they couldn't get Dushku early enough in the season to throw Faith at her.

I've never heard this theory before. Was this the original plan, or just speculation? I'm not sure I like the idea of a Willow/Faith pairing but it certainly would have been more interesting than Willow/Kennedy.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Fat Elvis 007

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Cobalt Stargazer:

 

Whatever Kennedy was or wasn't, she was specifically earmarked for Willow. Even if it was only because they couldn't get Dushku early enough in the season to throw Faith at her.

I've never heard this theory before. Was this the original plan, or just speculation? I'm not sure I like the idea of a Willow/Faith pairing but it certainly would have been more interesting than Willow/Kennedy.

 

Sorry for the long delay in response time, Fat Elvis 007. The first part, about Kennedy being earmarked for Willow, seemed pretty obvious to me, since from the minute she hits the scene she's flirting up a storm in a pretty aggressive fashion, and they end the series as a couple. I understand from people who read the comics that they later broke up, but in series canon they were together when it was all over.

 

As for Dushku, that's partly speculation and partly wishful thinking on my part. She was still on Tru Calling at the time, which wasn't cancelled until 2005, and there were scheduling conflicts. She was able to do a brief stint on Angel before coming back for the end of BTVS, but by then Willow and Kennedy were already attached at the hip. I also would have been much more interested in a Willow/Faith pairing, since although I didn't hate Kennedy, and in fact kind of liked her since she at least showed some spirit and didn't follow Buffy around like a sheep, I didn't really like her as Willow's new girlfriend. Particularly since I was pretty sure that Whedon only put them together to mollify the enraged Willow/Tara shippers. Either way, I thought the idea of Faith and Willow working on their mutual redemption together was an intriguing one, but like so much of the final season, it was a missed opportunity.

[amensisterfriend]

Since it aired today, it seems like a good time to confess my UO that I don't really like the very popular Conversations with Dead People. Even graded on a more generous S5-S7 curve (and I hold the UO of really disliking most of S5), there are a lot of other episodes from that era I'd rather rewatch. It's just such lame talk show psychobabble---'you feel inferior! No, wait, you feel SUPERIOR! You're trying to protect yourself!!! You're trying too hard but, like, not hard enough! Oh, wow, we are totally growing and learning now, amIright?!'  I remember liking it at the time, but now somehow it just doesn't work for me at all. 

[GreenScreenFX]

I think the reason I like "Conversations with Dead People" is because it sucked less than every other episode in the season barring the finale.

[GreenScreenFX]

This is how I remember season 7 ...episode 1--- All the big bads morphing together (so cool I can't contain my excitement)....then a ton of shit..... Buffy with a rocket launcher...... Bunch of shit.... Last episode.

Last 10 minutes was fucking awesome.

[Smad]

I'm still after all these years on the chip-ectomy/monkey paw wagon when it comes to Spike's soul. And nothing will ever convince me otherwise I think.

[amensisterfriend]

So this is a judgment free zone...right?! ;) I ask only because while rewatching parts of Buffy and Angel, I'm finding that I really enjoy the widely hated Wesley so much more than I had thought. And, to make this an even more cringe-inducing post, I really love his dynamic with Cordelia, especially in S3 of BtVS and the first two seasons of Angel. It's not like I would have wanted them to end up together romantically necessarily, but there's something about the actors' interactions and the way they're both snotty and snarky yet smart and secretly goodhearted in such different ways that works for me. If it's any consolation, I hate myself for feeling this way :) 

 

Also, I'm not at all a fan of Spike in S5-S7---like to the point where I wish he hadn't been on the show---but for some reason S4 Spike is easily one of the very best things about that season for me. And I actually loved the way he played off Xander more than the way he plays off Angel. 

 

I have a couple of more, but I've probably embarrassed myself enough for the time being :) 

Edited March 22, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Smad]

Last time I rewatched S3 I was actually way more annoyed with the Scoobies and Giles for their treatment of Wesley. Now don't get me wrong, S3 Wesley was a ponce who was totally too green to deal with slayers like Buffy and especially Faith. AD however is so damn good at being comedic relief that I liked it. But Giles that Season really was worse for me in many ways.

 

 

I think seasons 5 and 6 did a better job at making him fit into the show and giving him different shades to play (and then season seven of course exaggerated the whole male hero trope with Spike).

 

My unpopular opinion is actually that my favorite Spike season is not a Buffy season, but Angel season five, which is weird, because I was really mad that they put him into the show, but I started to like him again on Angel and started to look back more fondly to Spike.I think seasons 5 and 6 did a better job at making him fit into the show and giving him different shades to play (and then season seven of course exaggerated the whole male hero trope with Spike).

 

My unpopular opinion is actually that my favorite Spike season is not a Buffy season, but Angel season five, which is weird, because I was really mad that they put him into the show, but I started to like him again on Angel and started to look back more fondly to Spike.

See the problem with Spike in S4&5 and Angel S5 is that he just didn't fit. They weren't really going to make him part of the team so often times he didn't fit into episodes at all. But there needed to be at least a token Spike scene in an episode because JM was in the credits. In BvD for example the Spike/Riley scene so just didn't fit into the episode at all. Of course by S5 the writers eventually realized that the only other way to keep him on the show was to make him a love interest for Buffy. Problem with that for me was not just the never ending 'why won't they stake him' but to set Spike up as all knowing about slayers and Buffy. That whole nonsense with being attracted to darkness and slayers having a death wish was just so stupid because neither was true (first one was retcon, second one was proven incorrect by Spike's FFL flashbacks) but everyone else was written as braindead morons who accepted any crap that Spike was saying, most of all Buffy.

 

I just really hate what was done to the Scoobies in order for the writers to keep their favorites around (most noteably Spike and Anya). It eventually led us to the point where the Dawnverse was a total inverse of the first Seasons (characterization, morality, demons etc.).

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

That whole nonsense with being attracted to darkness and slayers having a death wish was just so stupid because neither was true (first one was retcon, second one was proven incorrect by Spike's FFL flashbacks) but everyone else was written as braindead morons who accepted any crap that Spike was saying, most of all Buffy.

 

Yes, Fool for Love is among the episodes with the most ridiculous premise ever. There is really no reason for Buffy to be so confused that some run of the mill vamp almost killed her. She might be stronger than them but she isn't invincible. The vamps just need to get lucky once. Second, even if she wouldn't accept the luck factor, there is no reason to look for an explanation from the guy who (as far she know) hates her and knew far less about Slayers and their psychological issues than Buffy could learn by just perusing the Watcher Diaries for ten minutes. And don't get me started on the ridiculous ending - "Spike can actually kill Buffy with a gun now but won't because he is in love".

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, S3 Wesley was a ponce who was totally too green to deal with slayers like Buffy and especially Faith. AD however is so damn good at being comedic relief that I liked it. But Giles that Season really was worse for me in many ways.

 

Yes, Giles had months to gain Faith's trust, he failed utterly to do so. Wesley comes, she goes to the dark side days later and is suddenly all Wesley's fault?!?

 

 

I just really hate what was done to the Scoobies in order for the writers to keep their favorites around (most noteably Spike and Anya). It eventually led us to the point where the Dawnverse was a total inverse of the first Seasons (characterization, morality, demons etc.).

 

Agreed. And what's worse, it doesn't seem to have been done to explore any morality dilemmas or improve the characterisation but as means to keep Spike and Anya and to turn the "demons" into basically Star Trek aliens because that would have made it easier to keep "funny" demons like Clem around. For instance, the writers didn't come up with all those demon guests to Xander's wedding to show how badly the morality of the Scoobies was slipping, they did it because they thought it would be funny to see the demons quarrel with Xander's white trash relatives.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[amensisterfriend]

Last time I rewatched S3 I was actually way more annoyed with the Scoobies and Giles for their treatment of Wesley. Now don't get me wrong, S3 Wesley was a ponce who was totally too green to deal with slayers like Buffy and especially Faith. AD however is so damn good at being comedic relief that I liked it. But Giles that Season really was worse for me in many ways.

 

This is such a great point. I'll freely admit that AD's portrayal of Wesley makes me enjoy him far, far more than I might have otherwise :) And it's also true that, while Wesley was obviously flawed, his presence brought out this weird 'in crowd bullies the new geeky kid' dynamic from the Scoobies---even Giles, who as an adult should theoretically be a bit beyond that. When Cordelia is the by far the NICEST to someone (granted, she probably wouldn't have been if she didn't find him attractive!), you know there's a problem with the way the Scoobies are behaving! 

[Smad]

Yes, Giles had months to gain Faith's trust, he failed utterly to do so. Wesley comes, she goes to the dark side days later and is suddenly all Wesley's fault?!?

I've never understood this one either. Wesley totally screwed up the intervention BUT all he did was act on the information he had and within the rules of his job. It's not his fault the Scoobies chose to never include him in their decisions, meetings or strategies. Giles is much more responsible for Faith going darkside than Wesley yet he doesn't get any blame.

 

 

Second, even if she wouldn't accept the luck factor, there is no reason to look for an explanation from the guy who (as far she know) hates her and knew far less about Slayers and their psychological issues than Buffy could learn by just perusing the Watcher Diaries for ten minutes. And don't get me started on the ridiculous ending - "Spike can actually kill Buffy with a gun now but won't because he is in love".

Just blame it on the monks. I know I do. It can't be good to have your brain reorganized so it's only logical that there would be some major WTF! consequences. Joyce is the best example who after all died of a brain tumor. It just follows that there would be major damage with Buffy as well (and the other Scoobies to a lesser degree), hence all the OOC-ness.

 

 

And it's also true that, while Wesley was obviously flawed, his presence brought out this weird 'in crowd bullies the new geeky kid' dynamic from the Scoobies---even Giles, who as an adult should theoretically be a bit beyond that. When Cordelia is the by far the NICEST to someone (granted, she probably wouldn't have been if she didn't find him attractive!), you know there's a problem with the way the Scoobies are behaving!

The Scoobies being bullies wasn't something I was very fond of either, largely because Willow and Xander know exactly what it's like on the recieving end of that kind of treatment. Not to mention that Giles in S1 wasn't all much different from Wesley. Only difference being that Giles due to age and experience had an easier time to adapt (not to mention not scream like a girl when in danger). But still, he was as tweedy and bumbling as they come and they found a way to all work together. Same when they integrated Cordy and Oz into the group. And while Wesley never backed down from trying to insert his authority instead of trying to adept to the circumstances it still wasn't great how the Scoobies behaved in regards to him.

[azshadowwalker]

If it's unpopular to hate S5, then I am happily unpopular. I hate Glory, both the character and the acting of CK, so much. I have seen Kramer in other things where I liked her, so it may have been bad direction, but nothing worked for me there. I hated Faith and Dushku's acting in a very similar way. I don't think the show was good with the "bad girl" stereotype.

[Jazzy24]

If it's unpopular to hate S5, then I am happily unpopular. I hate Glory, both the character and the acting of CK, so much. I have seen Kramer in other things where I liked her, so it may have been bad direction, but nothing worked for me there. I hated Faith and Dushku's acting in a very similar way. I don't think the show was good with the "bad girl" stereotype.

I can't say I hated season 5 but that's when it went all downhill for Buffy and I hated that. She dropped out of collage, her mom got sick and died, she had the responsiblity of Protecting Dawn and being a single mom since they made her dad a deadbeat. She and Riley broke up making her self worth drop even more. Spike was stalking her, Tara was mentally wounded, she was facing a super goddess like Buffy said the hits just kept on coming. I understood why at the end of the season she decided to kill herself besides wanting to protect Dawn and saving the world.

[amensisterfriend]

ut that's when it went all downhill for Buffy and I hated that. She dropped out of collage, her mom got sick and died, she had the responsiblity of Protecting Dawn and being a single mom since they made her dad a deadbeat. She and Riley broke up making her self worth drop even more. Spike was stalking her, Tara was mentally wounded, she was facing a super goddess like Buffy said the hits just kept on coming.

 

Exactly. The general opinion seems to be that S6 is the 'dark' season, but I always felt like things were just as grim in S5 for all the reasons you mention. Plus, while S4 is supposedly when the Scoobies drifted apart and came back together by the end*, the arrival of Dawn seemed to forever alter that dynamic for me, as Dawn was now Buffy's clear and understandable priority and Anya and Tara were (again, understandably!) so increasingly important to Xander and Willow. I get that that's realistic and maybe the group needed to keep changing and expanding to keep things fresh, but the dynamic among the Core Four was what first made me fall in love with the show, and I can never help myself from missing it later on!    

 

*A related UO I have is that I never saw the Scoobies drifting apart throughout S4 to the degree that I think we were supposed to. Sure, they maybe didn't spend quite as much time as they used together, especially due to Giles not working at the college and Xander not enrolled there, but when they were together things nearly always seemed solid. Buffy even lived with Willow and they still seemed in extremely frequent touch with Giles and Xander through much of the season. There were obviously a few issues and a little distance, but they arguably had more intra-group strife in S3: the anger at Buffy after she ran away, the Willow/Xander tryst and the consequences, Buffy concealing the truth about Angel, Giles betraying Buffy in Helpless, Willow's dislike of Buffy's initial friendship with Faith and how hurt she is when Xander reveals having slept with her...etc. There were a ton of incredibly sweet bonding moments among the core four in S3, but I'm always a little surprised to remember how much conflict there was as well. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Bitterswete]

If it's unpopular to hate S5, then I am happily unpopular.

 

Whenever someone says they don't like season 5, and explains why, I find myself agreeing with most of their criticisms. And, yet, I still really liked season 5, despite the flaws.

 

Take Glory. Thinking about her character, and other characters like her, I really shouldn't have liked her as the Big Bad. Yet, for some reason, I did. Which is probably part of the reason I liked the season overall. 

 

I hated Faith and Dushku's acting in a very similar way. I don't think the show was good with the "bad girl" stereotype.

 

I thought Faith was a bad girl cliche her entire run on BtVS. I could see why she was popular, she just didn't interest me all that much. Or at all, really. 

 

But her stints on AtS made me really like her. And, by the end of the BtVS finale, I liked Faith more than Buffy.

 

How's that for a UO?

 

Exactly. The general opinion seems to be that S6 is the 'dark' season, but I always felt like things were just as grim in S5 for all the reasons you mention.

 

The difference is that season 6 felt like such a drag. Season 5 had its dark, sad elements. But it just didn't feel as grim and depressing. In fact, I found a lot of season 5 enjoyable and entertaining, even with the dark and angsty stuff going on.

 

Season 6 was depressing to the point of being mind-numbing. And there wasn't much fun in the season to balance things out.

 

Actually, I think the Trio was supposed to balance out the grimness and provide comic relief. But that didn't really work because a lot of viewers didn't like them or think they were funny.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Bitterswete

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Last time I rewatched S3 I was actually way more annoyed with the Scoobies and Giles for their treatment of Wesley. Now don't get me wrong, S3 Wesley was a ponce who was totally too green to deal with slayers like Buffy and especially Faith. AD however is so damn good at being comedic relief that I liked it. But Giles that Season really was worse for me in many ways.

 

 

 

Yes, Giles had months to gain Faith's trust, he failed utterly to do so. Wesley comes, she goes to the dark side days later and is suddenly all Wesley's fault?!?

 

IMO, Buffy could also be blamed for failing to get Faith to trust her. She was initially very welcoming to Faith when she first showed up in Sunnydale, and she was the one caroming all over the place with her being a "bad girl", and then got jealous or something because everyone was paying so much attention to her due to her wild stories and antics that she felt ignored. Too many pronouns in there, I'm sure, but ya'll know what I mean.

 

Then she and Giles deliberately excluded Faith from going to look for the glove thing on the grounds that she couldn't be trusted around civilians, and while I can sort of see their point, that was on top of the fact that Buffy also kept the secret of Angel's return from her as well as everyone else. If we take it seriously that Faith's pre-existing trust issues caused even Giles to fail at getting through to her, then I think Buffy's cooling off with regards to her presence could have done just as much damage.

[AwesomO4000]

I've been out of being active in the Buffy fandom for a while, because generally speaking, I can only seem to handle one fandom at a time, and my current one is still ongoing (at 11 seasons), but for some reason today, I felt nostalgic and took a peek in over here. (I was quite active in the Buffy fandom on the old FanForum and in Buffy and my other fandom - Supernatural - on TWoP, but I went by a different name in Buffy fandom back then.)

After reading the best and worst thread, I was going to add a few of mine, but then realized from reading that thread that a lot of my opinions on those things fit better here, because I have a lot of unpopular opinions about Buffy it seems, so I'll start with that. I also haven't finished this thread - though I promise to go back and do so - but thought I'd get it all out there first before I lose my nerve.

Okay unpopular opinions (and it's a bit of a list):

• I don't like Faith, and I lost any small amount of sympathy I may have had for her when she took over Buffy's body.
• I have problems with Graduation Day 1 and 2. I just can't get over the whole town helping out and then going back to denial. It doesn't work for me. I actually don't like a lot of season 3, mostly because of Faith and how things started in "Dead Man's Party."
• I hated the Xander/Willow tryst - another reason I didn't like season 3 all that much.
• Despite liking some of season 6 more than many did - especially the early episodes - I absolutely hated the finale. I did not root for Willow beating up Buffy, and I thought that Buffy was too forgiving of what Willow did. I hated the "yellow crayon" speech and that Buffy spent the end of the finale in a literal hole in the ground. I'll stop now, because this episode gets me going like few others in the history of television. Grrr arrgh.
• I thought that Buffy and Angel were ultimately better for each other apart than together, and by the end of season 3, I was more than ready to see them break up. I liked Buffy and Angel for what it was and started out as a Bangle shipper, but then I moved on to...
• I liked Spike and Buffy, but romantically mostly after he got his soul. (Although I did like their twisted season 5 and early season 6 pre-sex relationship, too.) I know it's extremely unpopular, but I loved Spike and Buffy's relationship in season 7. I loved how they were there for each other. First Buffy for Spike - "she will come for me" (and she did, and I loved that look between them when she did come for him - no dialogue needed.) Then Spike for Buffy in "Touched." I never thought Spike got ruined from the early years. I liked all incarnations of him and thought that his relationship with Buffy was a logical progression of his "Love's Bitch" characterization. Championing (or villaining) for a strong woman was always his raison d'etre in my opinion, and once Dru dumped him, I thought Buffy actually made sense in a weird sort of way. Spike pre-soul was never "good." He didn't want to "save the world" in the season 2 finale - he wanted Drusilla back. He would have let the world burn to save Dawn in the season 5 finale if that's what Buffy had wanted. Love's bitch until the end.
•  I liked the arc in season 5, and I liked Glory/Ben as the villain. And yes, I consider Ben very much a part of the villainy and it's the reason why the arc worked for me. Both Buffy and Ben had a dark destiny they didn't ask for and a "dark power" inside them. Ben allowed his to stay and to even be swayed by it. When it came down to it, Ben could have stopped the whole thing, but he continued to cover up for Glory (he called the Queller demon) and he tried to live his own life anyway, despite the danger and cost to everyone else. He could have committed suicide or thrown himself into exile somewhere far away from Dawn until it was too late to do the ritual, but he chose potential power in the end. Buffy, on the other hand, sacrificed. I liked this contrast, and I liked the way it was done. And weirdly, I loved Glory's scabby little minions.
• I liked the Spike/Dawn friendship and wished that there had been more of it. Unfortunately "Seeing Red" and Xander's big mouth ruined any potential for that to return, even after Spike got his soul.
• I thought Tara was too good for Willow in the end. Willow became too controlling, in my opinion.
• I was surprisingly okay with the core group growing apart over the course of the show, probably because of my own life experiences. I thought that that was realistic under the circumstances.

That's likely more than enough for now. Huh, I'm surprised at how easily this all came back to me.

[slf]

Unpopular opinions threads are so cathartic.

I hated Xander. Hated. He was obviously a self-insert, which is pathetic and creepy. Creepy is also the perfect way to describe how Xander viewed the women around him; like dude, you don't value any of them enough as friends to not openly lust after them? Guys who can't be friends with women without perving on them can't be trusted and aren't actually good guys. Xander was a douche to each and every one of them at some point, and usually because he was jealous. And it was completely unbelievable to me that either Cordelia or Anya would actually want him. The actor wasn't very attractive (eye of the beholder, I know, but the actresses were both objectively attractive and out of his league), Xander was rarely as funny as he was made out to be, he wasn't smart, he wasn't ambitious- why would such ambitious, driven, intelligent, materialistic women want him? The show should've have killed him off rather than just putting out his eye. I thank god the show was cancelled because I recall SMG once saying she believed absolutely that it was Joss' intention to eventually hook him up with Buffy and I just could not have taken that.

I thought Willow was cute in the first two seasons but then I steadily grew to dislike her. By the end of the series I not only hated her but I rather disliked AH, too. I always got the vibe she was Whedon's pet and that Willow's absurd storylines in the later seasons was him trying to showcase her. I don't think she's a good actress, either; I've yet to see her in a role where she doesn't do that purse-lips-childishly-mumble-lines thing. Also? Not convincing romantically or sexually with any of her love interests. Making Willow a lesbian was an interesting choice but why Whedon felt the need to also make her a rapist is beyond me. Between her and Tara I would've rather lost her, to be honest; Tara was just as good at witchcraft but without being exploitative and I think she was a better friend in the end to Buffy and Dawn.

I think Spike shouldn't have been brought back in season four. His appearance in season three was great and perfectly in character. Making him fall in love with Buffy, become obsessed with her in a truly skin-crawling way, then try to rape her, then try to get his soul back, then get his soul back, etc, it was all just so stupid and actually violated the show's established mythology. Vampirism was explicitly said in the earlier seasons to be demonic possession. A demon took control over the body and couldn't be 'cast out' but could be suppressed if the soul was returned; that's why the person's 'personality' was so drastically different after being turned, it was literally a completely different being. And even if you want to ignore that bit of mythology, pretend it's not demonic possession, the personality shift is still an issue because Spike was pretty much exactly the same after he got his soul back. One fan confronted Whedon about this at a signing he had to think about it for a few minutes (because he had not thought about it all all when writing the show apparently) and said that Spike was a special vampire. Marsters was another one that Whedon obviously favored to the detriment of the show.

I thought the show got too meta starting in season four and I hate how gimmicky the demons and villains got. But I don't know how unpopular those opinions are.

[romantic idiot]

Agreed with all your points except Xander. I loved Xander, in fact, my UO is that I found him much more attractive than Angel in the first few years, though I'm Bangel to the core. Spike was just too short for  me. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

Making Willow a lesbian was an interesting choice but why Whedon felt the need to also make her a rapist is beyond me.

I suspect the writers didn't view what Willow did to Tara as rape which kind of makes it even worse, IMO.

Quote

I thank god the show was cancelled because I recall SMG once saying she believed absolutely that it was Joss' intention to eventually hook him up with Buffy and I just could not have taken that.

Considering how much Joss pandered the Spuffy and Bangel shippers, I find that extremely hard to believe. Also, the official comics (the so called seasons 8-10) are still ongoing and Xander and Buffy haven't hooked up. If Joss wanted to hook them up he would have done it long ago.

Quote

Guys who can't be friends with women without perving on them can't be trusted and aren't actually good guys.

You are making it sound as if Xander had like a dozen female friends and openly lusted after each and every one of them, instead of just Buffy and Willow. I mean, Cordelia or Faith weren't exactly his friends when they hooked up with him.

[AwesomO4000]

8 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

... Spike was just too short for  me. 

Hee. That's why I like him. Despite my icon over there of "Moose" (Sam Winchester's nickname because of his height), I mostly seem to prefer short guys - another UO. I also liked that Spike wasn't huge compared to Buffy. They were more equal. Whereas next to Angel, she seemed so small, it was more difficult for me to see her as a slayer.

[SosaLola]

On 5/22/2016 at 11:01 PM, romantic idiot said:

Agreed with all your points except Xander. I loved Xander, in fact, my UO is that I found him much more attractive than Angel in the first few years, though I'm Bangel to the core. Spike was just too short for  me. 

I finally found my soulmate!! I used to think I was the only one who thought Xander was more attractive than Angel and Spike.

[slf]

On 5/23/2016 at 7:01 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

You are making it sound as if Xander had like a dozen female friends and openly lusted after each and every one of them, instead of just Buffy and Willow. I mean, Cordelia or Faith weren't exactly his friends when they hooked up with him.

You're right, they weren't friends, but in a way that makes it worse. Because then it's a case of him lusting after and trying to date every girl in his age range with whom he had regular interactions. Buffy, the foreign exchange mummy girl, Willow, Cordelia, Faith, Anya. 

While I don't agree with the author's opinions on exactly why each incident are gross/horrifying, and there are one or two incidents I wouldn't have counted, this post gives a pretty decent rundown on other things I hate about Xander. Especially the parts about him using that spell (which was no better than what Willow did), his near constant digs at Buffy's romantic life (including the Greyhound insult), his fetishization of lesbians, and his treatment of Anya.

[Jack Shaftoe]

His treatment of Anya? Are we talking about the same Anya who insulted him in half the scenes the two of them had (and usually he just stood there and did nothing to retaliate)? Frankly, if Xander were the misogynistic jerk that he is often accused of being, he wouldn't have put up with Anya for more than a week, IMO.

That post you have linked to includes things like "Xander ruined Dawn's life [by informing her that Spike is a rapist" and "Xander ruined Anya's life [by not marrying her even though the author of the post clearly thinks no woman should ever marry that monster" and even blaming Xander for Willow's dream in Restless which is a textbook example of grasping at straws, so I can't really take it seriously. But mileage varies, as always.

Quote

You're right, they weren't friends, but in a way that makes it worse. Because then it's a case of him lusting after and trying to date every girl in his age range with whom he had regular interactions. Buffy, the foreign exchange mummy girl, Willow, Cordelia, Faith, Anya. 

Technically, Anya and Ampata weren't exactly in his age range [/nitpick]. Sure, the supposedly not so attractive guy managing to date so many gorgeous women is an overused cliche that does suggest wish-fulfillment on Joss's part but I still don't see why wanting to date first Buffy and then Willow definitively disqualifies Xander from being considered a good guy. It's easy to dismiss his opposition to Angel and later Spike as mere jealousy but they were serial killers, after all. Jealousy played a role, sure, but being wary of the guy who has tried to kill you and all your friends many times is perfectly normal. We know that even if Spike or Angel had turned bad once again they wouldn't have succeeded in murdering Buffy. Xander doesn't have that luxury.

Before anyone asks, yes, I consider his support for that other serial killer - Anya extremely hypocritical indeed. But that's what happens when a character is treated as a walking-talking comic relief rather than an actual character.

[formerlyfreedom]

This is the Unpopular Opinions topics. People are allowed to have differing opinions. This is not the spot to argue about those differing opinions.

[slf]

2 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

That post you have linked to includes things like "Xander ruined Dawn's life [by informing her that Spike is a rapist" and "Xander ruined Anya's life [by not marrying her even though the author of the post clearly thinks no woman should ever marry that monster" and even blaming Xander for Willow's dream in Restless which is a textbook example of grasping at straws, so I can't really take it seriously. But mileage varies, as always.

Well, you know, that would be why I said "While I don't agree with the author's opinions on exactly why each incident are gross/horrifying, and there are one or two incidents I wouldn't have counted" in the very same sentence I linked to the post. Though I do agree with the points that Xander bringing up the attempted rape when he didn't know if Buffy had told Dawn herself was crass, as was bringing it up as a retort. He wasn't attempting to inform Dawn so she could be cautious. So, yeah, jackass move.

Anya was a young woman who became a soulless demon for more than a thousand years and was relearning about how to live as a human. Her treatment of Xander could be callous and she was absolutely in the wrong each and every time. Which in no way excuses anything he did to her, including dumping her like he did and jumping her shit over a hookup. Anya - here's another unpopular opinion for you - wasn't a character I liked, mostly because she was meant to be comic relief and I didn't find her particularly funny. But in the end she deserved much, much better than Xander.

Xander was a classic Nice Guy. And only in the past few days have I begun to realize that this is not an unpopular opinion at all. While watching the show it seemed like everyone liked him, but his character has not aged well if all the easy-to-find vitriol is anything to go by. LOL.

Edited May 24, 2016 by slf

[amensisterfriend]

Even though I'm among the very few who likes S6 more than the far more popular S5---or at least dislike S6 a little less than S5!---I have the additional UO of not loving Tabula Rasa. It's exactly the kind of episode that I normally love, but for some reason it just never works for me as well as I expect it to. Then again, what can you expect from a weirdo who's also decidedly 'eh' on other acclaimed later BtVS episodes like The Body, Checkpoint, and even Conversations with Dead People?! 

[romantic idiot]

Re: Tabula Rasa - while I liked it, I thought they stayed too small with it, tbh.

[JZone]

Out of all the attractive characters on the show, many of whom were considered heartthrobs to the audience, the one I had the biggest crush on was Oz. His character was just so attractive to me - both in terms of appearance and personality. This actually led to a huge crush on Seth Green for myself, which lasted for many, many years. So yeah, out of all the tall, muscular, and ass-kicking men on this show, little Oz stole my heart lol.

I also didn't mind Kennedy. Yeah, the character was written to be bratty, but I liked her with Willow. I guess because she was so different than Tara. I liked the contrasting dynamic. I was actually surprised to see how strongly she seemed to be disliked across most of the fandom. To be fair, I was a teenager at the time, and I think if I was to watch her season today for the first time, the character would irk me more. But I honestly liked her back in the day.

I was also surprised at how much Riley wasn't liked. I noticed a lot of comments on this thread that share the UO opinion that he wasn't that bad, so maybe he wasn't as widely disliked as I once thought. But I do have to say I thought he was a good guy for Buffy. Maybe not the guy she was meant to be with forever, but I didn't get the hate. I guess I'm a sucker for a nice guy, even if he's on the dull side. 

[Bitterswete]

On 5/25/2016 at 11:43 AM, amensisterfriend said:

Even though I'm among the very few who likes S6 more than the far more popular S5---or at least dislike S6 a little less than S5!---I have the additional UO of not loving Tabula Rasa. It's exactly the kind of episode that I normally love, but for some reason it just never works for me as well as I expect it to. Then again, what can you expect from a weirdo who's also decidedly 'eh' on other acclaimed later BtVS episodes like The Body, Checkpoint, and even Conversations with Dead People?! 

I totally agree here. So many of the highly-praised episodes of BtVS just don't do much for me, and "Tabula Rasa" is definitely one of them. Not only did TR seem pretty "meh" to me on first viewing, but then I saw  "Spin the Bottle" (an AtS episode that I really liked which had a similar storyline) which made TR seem even more "meh."

On 7/15/2016 at 11:22 PM, JZone said:

I was also surprised at how much Riley wasn't liked. I noticed a lot of comments on this thread that share the UO opinion that he wasn't that bad, so maybe he wasn't as widely disliked as I once thought. But I do have to say I thought he was a good guy for Buffy. Maybe not the guy she was meant to be with forever, but I didn't get the hate. I guess I'm a sucker for a nice guy, even if he's on the dull side. 

Me, too. Riley might not have been the most exciting of guys but I liked him, and I liked him with Buffy. Sometimes, I enjoy couples who aren't high drama all of the time.

For example, I think one of the reasons I eventually grew out of Buffy/Angel was that, by the end of season three, I had just gotten tired of the angst. Which was a shame because I found them most interesting when there was angst. So, basically, I got tired of what I found most entertaining about them.

 

On 7/19/2016 at 1:49 PM, nosleepforme said:

To be honest, Kennedy's dislike in the fandom mostly comes from her being introduced so early after Tara's demise, I think.

That's not why I didn't like Kennedy. While I liked Tara, I wasn't so invested in Willow/Tara that Willow moving on to someone else would make me hate the other character for it. I just didn't like Kennedy, mainly because she's exactly the kind of character that can get on my nerves.

[joelene]

On 20 augusti 2016 at 11:19 AM, nosleepforme said:

I kind of like Doublemeat Palace. It's just a really funny episode to me.

I love Doublemeat Palace. It's totally off beat and weird but I love that kind of thing. I think it's hilarious. 

[Iknewyoucoulddoit]

I've grown to love and appreciate Dawn. In fact, by the end of the series I found myself loving and relating to her more than I did to Buffy or Willow. She might be the most unpopular character in the Buffyverse, so I figured that this was the place to confess my Dawn love! 

I don't really love Cordelia until she appears on ATS. 

I get the Angel vs Spike adults, but I'm over here alone at a table who thinks Giles and Oz were by far my two favorite male Buffyverse characters and the ones I'd love to know in real life. 

[Iknewyoucoulddoit]

Quote

I always liked Dawn, though the writing was really horrible for her in season six.

Absolutely, though the writing was terrible for almost everyone in Season 6, at least IMO :) 

Quote

 Her line in the series finale about "everything you say will sound like a goodbye" is also one of my favorite moments from Chosen.

Right? She's so sentimental and emotional. She cares so much and tries so hard. I love and relate to her despite being much older and having far less gorgeous hair! 

Quote

Giles is by far the best. I'd also throw in Wesley, as he matured on Angel. 

The unpopular opinion thread is the perfect place for me to admit that I really enjoyed Wesley's stint on BTVS. :)

I love a lot of episodes that seem unpopular and dislike a few that most fans seem to love, but I'm not sure this is the right place to discuss episodes...? 

[Dee]

Unpopular Opinion: I was never a big fan of Giles.

ASH? Yes. Giles? No.

[VCRTracking]

On 7/15/2016 at 9:22 PM, JZone said:

I also didn't mind Kennedy. Yeah, the character was written to be bratty, but I liked her with Willow. I guess because she was so different than Tara. I liked the contrasting dynamic. I was actually surprised to see how strongly she seemed to be disliked across most of the fandom. To be fair, I was a teenager at the time, and I think if I was to watch her season today for the first time, the character would irk me more. But I honestly liked her back in the day.

I didn't mind Kennedy either although I think she did come on too strong. I like Tara but I never liked Willow when she was with Tara. It was fine in the beginning but then Willow became like the asshole boyfriend with an addiction in a Lifetime movie  "Just give me another chance baby!"

Edited March 7, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

Season 7 Willow is just so lifeless. Some people say SMG was phoning it in during season seven, but I think on the contrary that it was Alyson Hannigan who was really phoning it in during that season. 

I think she was phoning it in to an extent but the problem was mostly the writing. Alyson's acting in her guest appearance in AtS was far better, probably because her character got a break from being a helpless mess. Which was somewhat implausible, sure, but considering I wanted very much to deny that Willow's S6 arc ever happened, I enjoyed her return to form in Orpheus and I strongly suspect that Alyson did the same.

[Perfect Xero]

On 3/8/2017 at 4:22 AM, nosleepforme said:

That's true though. I wish she would have gotten a bigger range of emotions in the writing of season seven and I guess it was probably really boring to play the same self-pitying scenes over and over again. 

I think it's funny that Joss and the casting director have said that the great thing about finding Alyson was that she would play scenes cheerfully in which other actresses would have emphasized sadness. That got kind of lost in the last two seasons.

Which leads me to my incredibly unpopular opinion that the actress who played Willow in the unaired pilot did a much better job of playing Willow as the character that she's actually written to be.

In Hollywood the key to playing an insecure victim of bullying is to play her as a conventionally attractive person, who is charismatic and confident.

[stillsearching74]

I still love this show more than someone in their 40s probably should :) I think it's such a timeless classic.

A few opinions that probably qualify as unpopular:

I absolutely love Jenny Calendar. She might be my favorite female character of the whole show. (Giles is probably my favorite character overall). In some ways I feel that was despite how relatively brief her time on BTVS tuned out to be, but in some ways it's because of that - we got to know her just well enough for me to grow fond of her and to pique my interest, but by leaving so early in the series (and before the writing went downhill!), we get to speculate about what could have been and fill in a lot of the blanks as we wish. I love how she was unapologetically brainy, bold yet vulnerable, blunt and impatient yet fundamentally kind, restless and energetic and kind of odd and intense, loyal to a fault, and in her own way as clueless emotionally as Giles. 

A related one is that Jenny/Giles is my favorite romantic relationship of the Buffyverse, though more based on what they could have been than whay they actually were.

I don't really love Buffy paired with either Angel or Spike, though both relationships had their moments.

I still really like Xander despite acknowledging his many flaws.

I agree with whoever said that Willow and Fred are the Buffyverse characters I should have loved and connected to most, but something about the acting and writing and how overly cutesy they are just makes me wince most of the time they're on screen.

Most people I know think AtS is the better show, and I completely understand where they're coming from, but I just flat out enjoy BtVS so much more. Not only do I find it much more entertaining, but I'm emotionally invested in it in a way that AtS just didn't inspire from me.

Speaking of sheer entertainment and enjoyment: I'm the only person I know who truly loves S1! (I think I'd rank the seasons as S2, S1, S4, S3, S6, S5, S7, with a large gap between S3 and S6)  

Anne is not only my favorite season premiere of the series but one of my most rewatched episodes. I'm also firmly seated at the tiny table of people who love the allegedly bad S2 episodes like Some Assembly Required and Go Fish. :) 

I actually enjoyed the Wesley/Cordelia flirtation in S3.

I hope none of these offended anyone - they're all just my opinions, and I respect that many disagree!

Edited May 12, 2017 by stillsearching74

[Perfect Xero]

5 hours ago, stillsearching74 said:

Most people I know think AtS is the better show, and I completely understand where they're coming from, but I just flat out enjoy BtVS so much more. Not only do I find it much more entertaining, but I'm emotionally invested in it in a way that AtS just didn't inspire from me.

I do think that AtS was the better TV show in terms of plot, story, ect ... but I simply cared so much more about the characters on Buffy and what happened to them. Of course I don't know if that's a good thing, or that I'd say that I enjoyed it more. The problem with me and Buffy is being so invested in the characters and their relationships with each other tended to make watching the show feel like getting punched in the gut at times.

[Spartan Girl]

I liked Dawn too. I'm a little biased because I love Michelle Trachtenberg. From what I see, Dawn's one unforgivable sin among the fandom seems to stem from her being a average teenage girl. Sure, she was annoying and immature, but how together would you be in you found out the first 14 years of your life weren't real and your family wasn't technically your family? Couple that with Joyce dying, Buffy dying, Buffy coming back yet not being really there for her, it's a wonder she could even function at all.

And once she did finally grow up, she wasn't so bad.

[Affogato]

I'm pretty happy with Buffy and willing to go along with most of the conceits of the show.

I liked and sympathized with the character of Wesley in season 3 while thinking he sucked at his job.  I had no real problem with Dawn after, if I remember after all that time, some initial struggle with change.

My main unpopular opinion is that season six is my favorite, I even rewatched it recently and had forgotton how many of the episodes I remember often came from season six. I think it is the season of the witch, the one where everyone has to deal with the consequences of their actions. Spike is earning his soul, before he realizes it. Buffy is dealing with the fact that everyone gets to move on except her, Dawn, Giles....I don't think that it would work without the other seasons but I think everything was earned and it worked. On the other hands parts of it are painful to get through.

I really think that season 7 suffered from them hovering in the same place at the middle of the season, waiting to hear if they'd been renewed. I may be wrong but that is what it felt like to me.