Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[YaddaYadda]

7 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

This is why I was so annoyed at the end of 5 about all the network meddling. I wanted the show to go out whatever way the writers decided without getting caught up in a storyline egged on a by executives in the possible final season, like we now have with the Land of Untold Stories to get rid of A/B halves, the return of the Evil Queen (for marketing's sake), and Aladdin thrown in there for extra measure.

About the A and B halves, I feel like A&E were kind of had with that. Dungey said no more long hiatuses, but Once is now on a 3 month hiatus. Maybe they would have planned things a bit differently with the winter finale especially.

I know you're a Regina fan (apologies and all), but I think this storyline is the worst that happened to the character.

[Eolivet]

10 hours ago, Hookian said:

I feel like if the show remains stable which I do believe because 5B was remarkably stable throughout almost it's entire run.

Stability at 0.9 or even 1.0 isn't stability. It's  just low-rated. It's like if I burn a cake every time I bake one, that's not exactly impressive consistency. It also doesn't make me a better baker than someone who only burns her cake every third try.

10 hours ago, Hookian said:

This is one of your best shows still when every other drama on your network is failing. 

And again, I don't think that's true either. Highest-Rated Drama on Sunday Night still means it's the King (Evil Queen?) of Crap Mountain.

9 hours ago, Curio said:

If Season 6 is the final season, it will become another HIMYM example of what not to do.

Milage may vary, but what killed HIMYM to me, was its finale. Its final season was meh, but its finale completely blew the entire premise of the whole show to hell for an "ending they had in their heads" from the second season (I think? 2006?). If (when?) OuaT is cancelled, its final season will be terrible, but it can join Gilmore Girls and other shows in the pile of misbegotten final seasons. Unless OuaT ends with Emma running off with Regina, and an adult Henry looking at the camera, going "...And that's how I met my mothers," HIMYM will stand alone as an example of how one single finale can completely obliterate and invalidate every single prior episode of a show -- at least to me.

[RadioGirl27]

20 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

As bad as I would feel for the cast and crew, I wouldn't be sorry if the show ended this season.

I have mixed feelings here. I'm not ready to say goodbye to Killian and Emma (there is so much they can do with them) and I love to have Colin and Jen on my screen weekly. This forum is another reason why I don't want them to cancel the show. But everything else is a complete disaster and I want to see Colin and Jen doing other things, things where they talent is not underused.

I just hope A&E are clever (lol, I know) and they write a season finale that can serve as a series finale, just in case they don't know anything until it's too late. But knowing them, the show would end with a cliffhanger.

Edited December 8, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[Shanna Marie]

I've realized that my feelings about the show's current status and cancellation potential are like when you're in that phase of a relationship where you're realizing it's not working, but you don't really want to break up because you try to convince yourself that it is working or could work. At the same time, you find yourself really noticing the flaws, and you think back and realize the flaws were always there, and in the early days when you were really happy, maybe you just loved the idea of the relationship but might never have been that happy. You've always loved the potential you saw in the relationship, the idea of the fun things you could do together, but the reality never measured up. When you bring up some of the issues to your significant other, he laughs at the idea and talks like things are great, so you know that it's not going to change, but you're still not ready to let go entirely because you hope it'll get better. And then he blindsides you by breaking up with you.

So I have that sick feeling that it's failing, am realizing the it really was never that good, that what drew me was always the potential, but the people writing it have very different visions for what the series could be than I do, so it will never reach the potential I want to see, and the writers aren't open to seeing the flaws that I see, but I still can't let go. And then I'll be really sad but maybe a little relieved when it's cancelled.

[Souris]

29 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

HIMYM will stand alone as an example of how one single finale can completely obliterate and invalidate every single prior episode of a show -- at least to me.

::cough::Quantum Leap::cough::

[maryle]

I have mix feeling about a final season or not.

But. I won't miss the show if it end this year

I really don't understand the over enthusiasm for the overall show of some still have. How can they miss the repetitive of Regina looking and asking for her happy ending... again or rumbelle enieme couple crisis. 

 If they know soon enough 

  despite their obvious boner for Regina and the heavy Rumbelle focus of this year.  I am sure Emma, Hook and the Charming Will have closure. 

I will miss the forum more than the show. People on this forum are bright,creative and funny.  the cast mostly Jen, Colin but also Josh and Ginny 

I guess will see !!

[Rumsy4]

18 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I've realized that my feelings about the show's current status and cancellation potential are like when you're in that phase of a relationship where you're realizing it's not working, but you don't really want to break up because you try to convince yourself that it is working or could work. At the same time, you find yourself really noticing the flaws, and you think back and realize the flaws were always there, and in the early days when you were really happy, maybe you just loved the idea of the relationship but might never have been that happy. You've always loved the potential you saw in the relationship, the idea of the fun things you could do together, but the reality never measured up. When you bring up some of the issues to your significant other, he laughs at the idea and talks like things are great, so you know that it's not going to change, but you're still not ready to let go entirely because you hope it'll get better. And then he blindsides you by breaking up with you.

So I have that sick feeling that it's failing, am realizing the it really was never that good, that what drew me was always the potential, but the people writing it have very different visions for what the series could be than I do, so it will never reach the potential I want to see, and the writers aren't open to seeing the flaws that I see, but I still can't let go. And then I'll be really sad but maybe a little relieved when it's cancelled.

You expressed it perfectly!

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

So I have that sick feeling that it's failing, am realizing the it really was never that good, that what drew me was always the potential, but the people writing it have very different visions for what the series could be than I do, so it will never reach the potential I want to see, and the writers aren't open to seeing the flaws that I see, but I still can't let go. And then I'll be really sad but maybe a little relieved when it's cancelled.

Whenever I talk to people who don't like Once or stopped watching it (for good reasons), I feel like a crazy apologist. It's as if my expectations are deep below the ground of acceptable. There are other shows out there that are entire galaxies better than Once.

If I'm being completely honest, A&E have been rewarded way too much for what their show is. They got amazing actors, a terrific crew, great costuming, and a huge pool of famous IP everyone can identify with. All that revolves around fanfiction quality writing. The concept itself was what held everything together for so long. It was such a strong idea that it had the power to do that. But even with everything working for them, the writers managed to screw it up. Bad. It's just tragic.

Edited December 8, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

21 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

All that revolves around fanfiction quality writing.

Hey now--I have read some amazing quality fanfiction with ideas miles better than what's in the Show. :-)

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

Hey now--I have read some amazing quality fanfiction with ideas miles better than what's in the Show. :-)

I mean the bad, written-by-a-12-year-old fanfiction ;)

But, to be honest, I've never seen a show with its future such in the hands of fanfiction writers.

[Mathius]

Honestly, if this is the final season and the finale sucks, A&E set themselves up for it pretty well in 6x05.

Emma: Let's not worry about the end of this story, okay? Endings usually suck.

[Tiger]

6 hours ago, Serena said:

It's already been cancelled. They announced it on Election night, that's why nobody noticed.

I still believe Once will get a S7, even if shortened *shrug* they have NADA on Sunday. Quantico was their big Sunday hope last year and... yeah. They'll try one last time to launch something behind it.

I'm not sure how many more ways I can say . . . Conviction has not been cancelled.

4 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Stability at 0.9 or even 1.0 isn't stability. It's  just low-rated. It's like if I burn a cake every time I bake one, that's not exactly impressive consistency. It also doesn't make me a better baker than someone who only burns her cake every third try.

And again, I don't think that's true either. Highest-Rated Drama on Sunday Night still means it's the King (Evil Queen?) of Crap Mountain.

Milage may vary, but what killed HIMYM to me, was its finale. Its final season was meh, but its finale completely blew the entire premise of the whole show to hell for an "ending they had in their heads" from the second season (I think? 2006?). If (when?) OuaT is cancelled, its final season will be terrible, but it can join Gilmore Girls and other shows in the pile of misbegotten final seasons. Unless OuaT ends with Emma running off with Regina, and an adult Henry looking at the camera, going "...And that's how I met my mothers," HIMYM will stand alone as an example of how one single finale can completely obliterate and invalidate every single prior episode of a show -- at least to me.

IMHO, the bizarre and hard pivot back to Robin & Barney in season 8 killed the show.  

To make this not off-topic, I think season 4B killed this show.  The plot made absolutely no sense and became way too dark.

[Rumsy4]

4 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I think season 4B killed this show.  The plot made absolutely no sense and became way too dark.

I agree. That was beginning of the end.

[KingOfHearts]

4B took what Frozen did and just burned it to the ground. It didn't flow well at all. (See: 4x11) The merciless darkness continued through S5, and now into S6. Merida, Dorothy and Jaladdin did nothing to lift the mood.

Edited December 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

4 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

This is why I was so annoyed at the end of 5 about all the network meddling. I wanted the show to go out whatever way the writers decided without getting caught up in a storyline egged on a by executives in the possible final season, like we now have with the Land of Untold Stories to get rid of A/B halves, the return of the Evil Queen (for marketing's sake), and Aladdin thrown in there for extra measure.

I disagree with you about Hyde and the LoUS. I think their early exit was becasue of the meddling. I agree that the addition of Aladdin was the result of exec meddling, but the reason they've fallen so flat is because A&E have done a poor job of integrating them. With Frozen, there was oversight, and not just meddling. So, that worked out better. I think the double-dose of Regina/EQ is also A&E's bright idea, just becasue they've always been obsessed with the EQ. 

[YaddaYadda]

8 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

 I think the double-dose of Regina/EQ is also A&E's bright idea, just becasue they've always been obsessed with the EQ. 

They said in their podcast that they decided on the EQ/Regina arc and then looked at the best way to make it work and that was Jekyll and Hyde except that nothing is working out like Jekyll and Hyde.

[Tiger]

17 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I disagree with you about Hyde and the LoUS. I think their early exit was becasue of the meddling. I agree that the addition of Aladdin was the result of exec meddling, but the reason they've fallen so flat is because A&E have done a poor job of integrating them. With Frozen, there was oversight, and not just meddling. So, that worked out better. I think the double-dose of Regina/EQ is also A&E's bright idea, just becasue they've always been obsessed with the EQ. 

I'm still pissed we didnt get the untold stories of Aunt Jemima, Christopher Robin, and the Summer's Eve guy.

[Mathius]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I agree. That was beginning of the end.

I think most everyone agrees.  A&E are stuck in the past when they say the show can get dark but "never bleak".  Starting with 4B, the show has always been bleak.  Back in the day, 2B almost killed the show when it went bleak following Cora's death, but it rebounded with 3A.  5A, on the other hand, only kept up the bleak tone, which continued through 5B and 6A, with no signs of letting up.  That, above anything else, is the big show killer.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

10 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

They said in their podcast that they decided on the EQ/Regina arc and then looked at the best way to make it work and that was Jekyll and Hyde except that nothing is working out like Jekyll and Hyde.

There. I'm not sure if they've even read the original novel. 

[TheGreenKnight]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

They said in their podcast that they decided on the EQ/Regina arc and then looked at the best way to make it work and that was Jekyll and Hyde except that nothing is working out like Jekyll and Hyde.

They say a lot of things that disguise the truth. With the way ABC always promotes the show with a picture of TEQ (and Emma/Rumpel), I imagine that Dungey asked them to find a way to bring TEQ back since Regina is such a different character this far into the series. She apparently asked them to get rid of the split half structures in order to make the season more like S1, and bringing back the villain of S1 (TEQ) and introducing LoUS to create a similar episodic feel as S1 falls in pretty much the same territory.

[Mathius]

8 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

and introducing LoUS to create a similar episodic feel as S1 falls in pretty much the same territory.

Hilariously, that only lasted for 6 episodes before A&E got bored and fell back on their old habits.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I think the double-dose of Regina/EQ is also A&E's bright idea, just becasue they've always been obsessed with the EQ. 

It probably could have worked better if it was just EQ, with no Regina.

Quote

Hilariously, that only lasted for 6 episodes before A&E got bored and fell back on their old habits.

They should have just stuck with their old habits, to be honest. I would have rather had another half-season following their typical formula than what 6A brought us.

Edited December 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

3 hours ago, Mathius said:

I think most everyone agrees.  A&E are stuck in the past when they say the show can get dark but "never bleak".  Starting with 4B, the show has always been bleak.  Back in the day, 2B almost killed the show when it went bleak following Cora's death, but it rebounded with 3A.  5A, on the other hand, only kept up the bleak tone, which continued through 5B and 6A, with no signs of letting up.  That, above anything else, is the big show killer.

I absolutely agree. That's the major component that led to the show's demise faster than maybe it should have. The show is simply no fun anymore. It's an unrelenting downer and has been since 4B. And there was never any notable relief from the angst and depression, no moment for the characters to breathe and be happy. If the show isn't enjoyable for viewers to watch -- guess what, they're not gonna.

[Lies]

8 hours ago, RadioGirl27 said:

I have mixed feelings here. I'm not ready to say goodbye to Killian and Emma (there is so much they can do with them) and I love to have Colin and Jen on my screen weekly. This forum is another reason why I don't want them to cancel the show. But everything else is a complete disaster and I want to see Colin and Jen doing other things, things where they talent is not underused.

I just hope A&E are clever (lol, I know) and they write a season finale that can serve as a series finale, just in case they don't know anything until it's too late. But knowing them, the show would end with a cliffhanger.

Yeah same here. If the show gets cancelled, on the one hand, I'll be glad to finally be out of the most toxic fandom I've ever been in but on the other, I will miss Emma and Hook. I liked their love story and they were the only thing still holding me on to OUAT because the rest just bored me. It's strange though, I've been wanting it to be over and now that it might be, I don't want it to be. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Lies

[Rumsy4]

Will abc be willing to renew the Show keeping in mind the ratings might likely be around 0.5 to 0.7 in Season 7? I think that's what it comes down to. That kind of rating suggests mid-season replacement rather than a proper Fall Season premiere. 

[Curio]

6 hours ago, Tiger said:

I think season 4B killed this show.  The plot made absolutely no sense and became way too dark.

We were doomed the moment Emma ditched her barely alive True Love to go have shots with Regina.

[InsertWordHere]

30 minutes ago, Curio said:

We were doomed the moment Emma ditched her barely alive True Love to go have shots with Regina.

And joined Operation Mongoose.

[Souris]

18 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

And joined Operation Mongoose.

What was that name some people were calling it? Operation Fuckagoose?

[Hookian]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Will abc be willing to renew the Show keeping in mind the ratings might likely be around 0.5 to 0.7 in Season 7? I think that's what it comes down to. That kind of rating suggests mid-season replacement rather than a proper Fall Season premiere. 

I don't thinkt he show will go anywhere near those levels. I still do have hope it will get renewed for a short 7th season.

[Serena]

12 hours ago, Tiger said:

I'm not sure how many more ways I can say . . . Conviction has not been cancelled.

It has terrible ratings and no buzz. If ABC renews it over more buzzy shows with higher ratings (and let's be honest, Once - as bad as it is - can still make noise) just because it's a procedural, they deserve what they get.

But I still think it's dead.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Serena

[RadioGirl27]

1 hour ago, Serena said:

It has terrible ratings and no buzz. If ABC renews it over more buzzy shows with higher ratings (and let's be honest, Once - as bad as it is - can still make noise) just because it's a procedural, they deserve what they get.

But I still think it's dead.

Well, It's not just a procedural. It has the sister of the head of ABC as one of the main cast members. Maybe A&E should have made Ursula a regular to guarantee the renewal.

[sharky]

1 hour ago, Serena said:

It has terrible ratings and no buzz. If ABC renews it over more buzzy shows with higher ratings (and let's be honest, Once - as bad as it is - can still make noise) just because it's a procedural, they deserve what they get.

But I still think it's dead.

Exactly this. I recently read an article about networks not announcing shows are cancelled anymore. They morph into "limited series" or "television events" while burning off episodes so they can at least have something to sell to streaming services later on. There has been no announcement yet but we all know that Conviction and Notorious are dead. You can't say it's obvious Once is getting cancelled while trying to act like Conviction is going to be on the schedule next year with some line about "ABC hasn't said it's cancelled." It's just not going to happen.

[Mathius]

I think the sudden removal of OUAT scenes from the WatchABC App commercial is a telling sign, personally.

They probably know that the show is no longer a General Audience draw.  The core fandom is all that's left watching.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Mathius said:

I think the sudden removal of OUAT scenes from the WatchABC App commercial is a telling sign, personally.

They probably know that the show is no longer a General Audience draw.  The core fandom is all that's left watching.

Did they remove just Once or a bunch of other shows?

[Serena]

9 hours ago, RadioGirl27 said:

Well, It's not just a procedural. It has the sister of the head of ABC as one of the main cast members. Maybe A&E should have made Ursula a regular to guarantee the renewal.

Yeah, but the head of ABC can get her sister another regular spot on another show if she's really into nepotism.

TV Line's Scorecard says Conviction is essentially cancelled a OuAT a safe bet, btw: http://tvline.com/2016/10/03/renewed-tv-shows-2017-renewal-scorecard-cancelled-series/

[Tiger]

On 12/9/2016 at 8:48 AM, sharky said:

Exactly this. I recently read an article about networks not announcing shows are cancelled anymore. They morph into "limited series" or "television events" while burning off episodes so they can at least have something to sell to streaming services later on. There has been no announcement yet but we all know that Conviction and Notorious are dead. You can't say it's obvious Once is getting cancelled while trying to act like Conviction is going to be on the schedule next year with some line about "ABC hasn't said it's cancelled." It's just not going to happen.

Notorious had it's order cut and it's last episode aired three weeks after the previous with zero promotion in a different timeslot behind holiday programming.

Conviction is being tried in a different slot for several weeks, with it's original order, continues to be promoted, and CO-STARS THE SISTER OF THE NETWORK PRESIDENT.  

ABC may very well in May decide to cancel it, but as of now it is still very much alive and in contention for renewal. 

[Tiger]

On 12/8/2016 at 2:15 PM, Souris said:

No media outlet is reporting it because there hasn't been a public decision to report. However, at least one speculation site is putting Once in the "tossup" category, leaning toward S7 but still a tossup. None of these renewal-spec sites has a perfect record, so it's not like anything they predict is take-it-to-the-bank gospel. Nothing is guaranteed in the TV biz.

There was a TV show I watched years ago that was on CBS's in-house board as renewed the night before the upfronts. They canceled it overnight before the upfronts. Anything can happen.

Years ago, ABC flew the entire cast of The Practice from LA to NYC for the upfronts, gave them all prominent promotional spots, and then a couple days later shitcanned most of them to bring in James Spader.

On 12/8/2016 at 6:52 PM, Lies said:

But didn't the head of ABC or whoever say that OUAT was one of the shows they wanted to continue as long as possible? I think this was said last year or less (my memory is a bit foggy). And I read somewhere that OUAT is still the highest performing show on ABC on Sunday nights but I could be wrong about this.

For what it's worth, I think the show is on its last legs...It's so obvious A&E have no inspiration anymore. Every year the writing gets worse and worse (I don't just mean how they write romantic and non romantic relationships, but also the stories/character arcs). 

AFV is ABC's strongest Sunday show in viewers and 18-49 at least.  

And Paul Lee's stance on Once, and others, is at least part of what ultimately got him fired.  

[TheGreenKnight]

Designated Survivor is down to 1.1 in the demo. I'm guessing it'll be at .07 by the end of Spring (not much different--maybe worse--than Once in its 6th season....).

[sharky]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Notorious had it's order cut and it's last episode aired three weeks after the previous with zero promotion in a different timeslot behind holiday programming.

Conviction is being tried in a different slot for several weeks, with it's original order, continues to be promoted, and CO-STARS THE SISTER OF THE NETWORK PRESIDENT.  

ABC may very well in May decide to cancel it, but as of now it is still very much alive and in contention for renewal. 

First, it doesn't matter if the sister of the network president is on the show. Business is business is business. Even if Channing Dungey's own mother was the lead on an ABC drama, if the show wasn't getting ratings, she would have to cancel it. Channing Dungey wasn't hired to keep her sister in a job. Channing was hired to turn around ABC. Does it make Christmas dinner awkward? Sure. But that's business.

As for Conviction, the ratings may not be as bad as Notorious, but the show is getting cancelled way before Once is. That 10pm Monday spot is a perfect place for a procedural, which is why Castle did well there for eight seasons. It has a lead-in from an older audience show -- and a huge successful show -- in Dancing With the Stars. Last year at this time, Castle was pulling a 1.0 in that time slot after getting stale from being on the air for eight seasons. Conviction's episode this past Monday pulled a 0.6 after less than a half season -- and that's lower than Once's rating against football on a Sunday night the day before. 

Conviction has 13 episodes. That's it. A month ago, ABC opted not to order the back 9. So have they officially said it's cancelled? No. Is it essentially cancelled? Yes. Deadline.com put it this way a month ago when ABC said it wasn't ordering the back 9.

Quote

This is not a cancellation, as ABC is retaining an option to order a second season and is keeping the options on the cast. However, historically, it has been virtually impossible for a new series that could’ve gotten a back order but didn’t to score a second-season renewal, especially at the ratings levels of Conviction.

Conviction, from the Mark Gordon Co. and ABC Studios, got off to a slow start with a 0.9 Live+Same Day rating for its series premiere, below the season opener of the show it replaced on the schedule, veteran Castle. Conviction slipped a bit in subsequent airings, hitting a low of 0.6 in 18-49 (L+SD) with its fifth episode last night. That is a tenth higher than the 0.5 ABC’s drama Kings & Prophets logged for its second airing last season before being pulled from the schedule.

Once's ratings aren't great, sure. We can all agree on that. But it's more likely to get renewed than Conviction by a wide margin. It's more likely to get renewed than Notorious and Secrets and Lies. It has a higher average rating than Agents of Shield and like Agents, it also has IP outside of the show itself that factors into its possible renewal. So stop with the fear mongering based on how great Conviction is because Channing's sister is on the show and they haven't officially said it's cancelled so it's going to be this ratings juggernaut that ABC is going to renew before Once. Based on current ratings, that's not going to happen.

[Camera One]

Well, I just hope that Once's value for crossover Disney marketing helps it out.  It's a unique property in that regard.

The only trump card A&E can pull now is Star Wars, even though they love it so much they couldn't bear to touch it.  

Edited December 10, 2016 by Camera One

[Souris]

4 hours ago, Tiger said:

Years ago, ABC flew the entire cast of The Practice from LA to NYC for the upfronts, gave them all prominent promotional spots, and then a couple days later shitcanned most of them to bring in James Spader.

Oh, gosh, I'd forgotten about that! Craziness.

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Well, I just hope that Once's value for crossover Disney marketing helps it out.  It's a unique property in that regard.

The only trump card A&E can pull now is Star Wars, even though they love it so much they couldn't bear to touch it.  

I can't imagine that Disney would let A&E anywhere near Star Wars. It's still a massive in-process franchise. They don't need A&E mucking around and making Luke a serial killer.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Souris

[Camera One]

LOL, true.  Though I wonder if it would bring in the Star Wars die-hards, and how they would contribute to the fandom.  

"What do mean Wookies are werewolves!"

"The Wicked Witch of the West outsmarts Yoda?!"

"Han Solo was a coward until he met Pocahontas?"

And *this* is why I like this show... (insert diabolical laughter).

Edited December 10, 2016 by Camera One

[jjjmoss]

On 12/8/2016 at 8:46 PM, Rumsy4 said:

Will abc be willing to renew the Show keeping in mind the ratings might likely be around 0.5 to 0.7 in Season 7? I think that's what it comes down to. That kind of rating suggests mid-season replacement rather than a proper Fall Season premiere. 

Based on the 33% drop so far this season, that sounds about right. Last season had -37%, but that was compared to the Frozen-boosted season.

Edited December 10, 2016 by jjjmoss

[sharky]

Is that 33% drop a year-to-year comparison? Because if you look at the ratings for 2016 -- season 5 through season 6 -- it does seem to have a slight drop but then hold steady. So by April, episodes were in the 1.1-13 range it looks like, with this season being around 0.9-1.0. It's definitely not great but it's steady. They're trying to save Quantico by moving it to Mondays despite the fact that their ratings are lower so whether Quantico can get a boost with the time shift -- or Conviction for that matter -- could be a determining factor for Once getting renewed as well, but I wouldn't be hopeful for either of those shows.

[Mari]

4 hours ago, Souris said:

 They don't need A&E mucking around and making Luke a serial killer.

C'mon!  Those Jawas totally deserved it.

And Jabba's charitable work was never given proper attention in the movies.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

And Jabba's charitable work was never given proper attention in the movies.

I totally ship the Jabba/Rumple bromance already. #JumbleForever

Edited December 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[jjjmoss]

If you wanna compare half-seasons:

4B 1.82

5A 1.57 (-14%)

5B 1.17 (-25%)

6A 1.05 (-10%)

Let's say that 6B drops proportionally (10/14 * 25), that would be -18%, and 0.86 for the spring.

Taking it too far, we could guess equal drops S7 for 0.77 fall, 0.63 spring.

[Souris]

3 hours ago, Mari said:

C'mon!  Those Jawas totally deserved it.

And Jabba's charitable work was never given proper attention in the movies.

He had a rough childhood so his crimes are certainly not his fault. Leia should apologize to him.

[Eolivet]

I see there's already pushback elsewhere about the idea the show will be cancelled, because it "goes against industry experts."

Here's the thing, though -- and something the information being shared here has made me consider: Dungey was hired at the end of last season, when pretty much all the shows were already renewed, if I remember correctly. New network presidents always want to put their "stamp" on the schedule. The industry experts seem to be treating this next season as if it were status quo, and ratings of one show compared to the net average were all that mattered. But what if this is a "cleaning house" year? Why would Dungey keep low-rated shows from Lee's old "administration" instead of taking a chance on new shows that will better illustrate how she envisions the network? Then all bets are off.

And by those standards, there's an extremely good argument for cancelling OuaT: it's a veteran, fantasy-based serial with a large cast, it has absolutely terrible ratings (0.9 is terrible, unless we're using CW standards for ratings now) and it's pretty much decimated their entire Sunday night. I have no insider information, but I feel like since ABC is currently in fourth place, they're going to be rolling the dice a lot more than other networks.

I'm not saying it will happen, but I'm personally more inclined to trust educated guesses based on information about development and vision for the network (something you never hear from so-called armchair ratings experts) than industry experts who are literally just looking at numbers without context.

[sharky]

Except Dungey wasn't hired at the end of last season. She was hired in February so she could be the one acquiring pilots and setting the fall schedule. She was the one who left Once where it is. So sure, she may have more influence with pilot development this season, but she already made her mark with this season's schedule.