S01.E03: Two Boats And A Helicopter

[iMonrey]

I don't think casinos take taxes out of winnings, Boston Gal. That's what the IRS does. The most I ever won at a casino was $150 at a slot machine, but they didn't take anything out for taxes.

 

Just a thought - since this group calls themselves the "Guilty Remnants," maybe that means they feel guilty over the departures - in other words, do they think perhaps they're responsible for the departures? As in, the people who disappeared were people who, at one time, they wished were dead, or gone? Maybe it's kind of like a reverse-Rapture, where instead of Good Christians being taken away, the bad people were taken away. And that's why the GR don't talk; at some point they made some flip comment about "oh, I wish so-and-so would just die, or go away, or whatever" and, they did. So they don't speak anymore because they think they caused this.

 

I got nothin' else.

[tljgator]

 

Perhaps I'm over-thinking this, but in addition to the lack of security, wouldn't the casino also have deducted some of the cash for taxes? So, he shouldn't have walked out of there with the complete $160,000.

 

This really bugged me, too, A Boston Gal; in fact, most everything about the casino rang so false that it really took me out of what the scene was meant to accomplish.  Anything over $10,000 in winnings gets dinged in Vegas (as I think it does with other forms of winnings, like the lottery), and I'm sure it would in CT, since I believe that's a federal income tax threshold for reporting.  I also can't imagine that they'd have just cashed him in for $20,000 that came from a balled up wad like that, out of worries of someone laundering money, and I have no idea why he wouldn't have had the casino cut a check to the bank or simply wire the money directly to the bank instead of risking walking out with that kind of cash.  I don't understand why he was parked so far away in the middle of a mostly empty parking lot, or why (if he insisted on stupidly taking it all in cash) security wouldn't have seen him to his car -- except that it all lead to the overly convenient set-up for the robbery attempt with the all too obvious creepy guy from the roulette table.

[ganesh]

I don't think he would have walked out with just an envelope of cash either. It's a huge reliability/PR issue. I'm sure the casino doesn't want to get sued, nor have the bad press.

 

Was that scene really necessary though? Because he got smashed in the face by the rock later, and that's what really caused him to miss the deadline. It seems like that scene was piling on and overkill. 

 

I'd like to see if people are actually more religious as a result of the 14th. Then again, I'd like to see a lot about what kind of world this is, but it seems TPTBs are not interested in world-building or actually just haven't done it. 

[GaT]

This really bugged me, too, A Boston Gal; in fact, most everything about the casino rang so false that it really took me out of what the scene was meant to accomplish.  Anything over $10,000 in winnings gets dinged in Vegas (as I think it does with other forms of winnings, like the lottery), and I'm sure it would in CT, since I believe that's a federal income tax threshold for reporting.  I also can't imagine that they'd have just cashed him in for $20,000 that came from a balled up wad like that, out of worries of someone laundering money, and I have no idea why he wouldn't have had the casino cut a check to the bank or simply wire the money directly to the bank instead of risking walking out with that kind of cash.  I don't understand why he was parked so far away in the middle of a mostly empty parking lot, or why (if he insisted on stupidly taking it all in cash) security wouldn't have seen him to his car -- except that it all lead to the overly convenient set-up for the robbery attempt with the all too obvious creepy guy from the roulette table.

Maybe post 10/14 things changed. All the people who disappeared must have owed taxes & stuff, I can't imagine that only 3 years later the government would have been able to get everything straightened out, especially since nobody knows if it will happen again. They may have changed laws for all we know. Of course, it would be nice if the show would give us some clue instead of me having to fanwank this.

 

Also, how do they know it isn't still happening? How do they know that once the big disappearance happened, other people aren't just randomly disappearing? Can they tell the difference between a person who walks away from their life voluntarily (which I bet happens a lot more now), & someone who was taken?

[ganesh]

If there's an agency handing out benefits, it's reasonable to think there's one, or maybe a division of the FBI, that's investigating potential disappearances too. It's like this town on the show is living in a vacuum. 

 

I know there's a lot to get to, but I don't think this isn't stuff that can't be doled out over the course of the season. Especially if the chief of police is the main POV on the show. They really haven't covered much at all in 3 episodes. I think by 3,4 episodes, if you've got cults as what seems to be major plot elements, you should know a little more about them. I would think maybe there's a pretty big missing persons file for law enforcement to get through too. 

[KaveDweller]

"We do not smoke for pleasure, we smoke to show our faith in God" (or, words to that effect). It seems to be their way of saying, smoking won't kill us, God will protect us.

 

If that's their thinking, it's the dumbest thinking I've ever heard.

 

Maybe it's kind of like a reverse-Rapture, where instead of Good Christians being taken away, the bad people were taken away.

 

I was thinking about that, but they did say that some people who departed were in fact good people, didn't they? Also there were children, including an infant who were taken, and I don't know what they could have been done to be labeled "bad." Lack of baptism, maybe? But that's hardly on par with beating your kids or gambling away their future.

[shapeshifter]

I hope they make it be a wormhole, but that's not likely on this show.

[ganesh]

You don't, "just smoke" either. Unless they are lighting cigarettes and not inhaling? Which is stupider.

I could actually buy into a show if it was about the rapture. But it's clearly not, nor is it the reverse. But the credits are very religious. That's kind of short sighted.

[ShellSeeker]

Just a thought - since this group calls themselves the "Guilty Remnants," maybe that means they feel guilty over the departures - in other words, do they think perhaps they're responsible for the departures? As in, the people who disappeared were people who, at one time, they wished were dead, or gone? Maybe it's kind of like a reverse-Rapture, where instead of Good Christians being taken away, the bad people were taken away. And that's why the GR don't talk; at some point they made some flip comment about "oh, I wish so-and-so would just die, or go away, or whatever" and, they did.

 

I like this theory more than any of the others I've seen so far. And it would explain alot. The Guilty Remnant became much more interesting to me in this episode since they bought the church. I'm much more interested to see what their motivation is now. That look that the preacher exchanged with the cult leader at the end was very unsettling, and it seemed to have a touch of malevolence to it.

 

I'm still on the fence about this show. It has a lot of potential, but it's somehow just missing the mark for me. But I want to like it, so I'll give it a few more episodes.

[Blakeston]

Perhaps I'm over-thinking this, but in addition to the lack of security, wouldn't the casino also have deducted some of the cash for taxes? So, he shouldn't have walked out of there with the complete $160,000.

The casino giving him the full $160,000 was actually realistic. Casinos don't subtract taxes from your winnings. They'll take note of it for tax purposes if you win enough, and they'll give you a tax form. But you don't have to pay the taxes on it then and there.

In the pilot episode, the GR had a sign up on the wall at their headquarters (?) that read "We do not smoke for pleasure, we smoke to show our faith in God" (or, words to that effect). It seems to be their way of saying, smoking won't kill us, God will protect us. So they apparently have some kind of religious devotion in their cult.

 

That makes me lean toward the penance theory. It's not for pleasure, it's for self abuse.

I strongly suspect that the GR is based on the cult movement that happened during/after the Black Plague, when people dressed in white and walked silently through the streets whipping themselves.

[iMonrey]

 

Also there were children, including an infant who were taken, and I don't know what they could have been done to be labeled "bad." Lack of baptism, maybe?

 

Yes but what frazzled mother hasn't secretly wished, just once, that her annoying, crying child would just go away, or reluctantly thought they'd wish they'd never had kids? That goes back to the 'guilty' part of the GR - maybe they think they caused this to happen.

[shapeshifter]

In the pilot episode, the GR had a sign up on the wall at their headquarters (?) that read "We do not smoke for pleasure, we smoke to show our faith in God" (or, words to that effect). It seems to be their way of saying, smoking won't kill us, God will protect us....

That makes me lean toward the penance theory. It's not for pleasure, it's for self abuse.

Sort of. But it's also like they believe they're untouchable. Or maybe it's more of a dare, as in daring God to take them too.

Regardless, shouldn't they be coughing by now? Or maybe not talking makes it easier on their upper respiratory systems.

[ganesh]

They must *reek*. Especially if they smoke inside. 

[Blakeston]

Sort of. But it's also like they believe they're untouchable. Or maybe it's more of a dare, as in daring God to take them too.

Regardless, shouldn't they be coughing by now? Or maybe not talking makes it easier on their upper respiratory systems.

There's a Guilty Remnant website at http://guiltyremnant.com - it appears to be connected with the book rather than the show, but it all seems consistent with the show.

 

This is from their FAQ:

What's with the name? What are you guilty of?

God judged us on October 14th. If we weren't guilty, we wouldn't be here.

 

Why the white clothing?

To set us apart. To make it clear we no longer belong to the Old World. The Old World ended on October 14th.

 

Why do you smoke so much?

We smoke to proclaim our faith.

 

But smoking's bad for your health.

God's judgment is upon us. We don't expect to be around for very long.

 

Are you Christians?

Labels belong to the Old World.

 

Why the Vow of Silence?

Because talk is cheap, and we're tired of wasting our breath. The New World demands action.

So it sounds like they're smoking because they think they're damned, not because they think they'll be saved.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Blakeston

[shapeshifter]

Thanks, @Blakeston -- so that implies that the GR believes it was the biblical Rapture, and that the disappeared were not guilty -- the opposite of what the reverend believes.

[izabella]

Why the Vow of Silence?

Because talk is cheap, and we're tired of wasting our breath. The New World demands action.

 

Interesting, because I haven't seen any "action" from the white walkers.  Aside from moving into that church, all we've seen them do is smoke, follow people around, and hold signs at Heroes Day.  What action are they partaking in?

[ganesh]

Also, "talk" is laughable. Because they're communicating regularly even though they aren't talking. So it's just a stupid thing to do. 

 

I don't understand how they could think it's the rapture when clearly bad people have been taken. I'm surprised no one argued that the rapture, as in the taking of people, isn't actually in the bible. 

 

Does show-GR think it's the rapture too because they haven't said anything to this end.

[GaT]

Thanks @Blakeston, that's more information than the show has given us.

[Ronin Jackson]

So they don't want to waste their breath by talking, but they inhale and exhale tobacco and nicotine?  Not that every sect needs to have dogma that makes sense, but there is very little about the group that would make it one that would attract so many members.  It almost seems like the members are mystically linked to the group.  The group has a file on prospective recruits and they reel them in by stalking them... which apparently works like a charm.

 

The group might work better if they were shown less.  The weirdness of them wearing white and stalking people might evoke a sense of mystery.  But instead they are showing us a lot about them without explaining much, which kills the mystery and makes them rather more tedious than enigmatic.  

Edited July 18, 2014 by Ronin Jackson

[ganesh]

I think they dropped the ball by not having the chief ask Liv Tyler why she was there when he talked to her in the pledge house. I suppose she's not compelled to answer him, but it was obvious she didn't want to get married, and the chief had to have known she was being stalked. Sometimes people just need to unload on someone else and it seemed like a good opportunity to do so without coming off like clunky exposition.

 

Do these people actually know how to make a tv show. Because in three episodes, they've made a lot of errors.

 

It's probably not fair to the show to speculate off the faq if it was not show created. I haven't seen any indication of 'faith' on the show, for example. TPTB may be going with a different motivation. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by ganesh

[Blakeston]

It's probably not fair to the show to speculate off the faq if it was not show created. I haven't seen any indication of 'faith' on the show, for example.

 

I'd forgotten about it until iMonrey pointed it out in this thread, but in pilot there's a sign in the GR's living quarters that says, "We don't smoke for enjoyment. We smoke to proclaim our faith."

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'd forgotten about it until iMonrey pointed it out in this thread, but in pilot there's a sign in the GR's living quarters that says, "We don't smoke for enjoyment. We smoke to proclaim our faith."

 

 

That's the frustrating part -- there's no who or why shown with the GR.  Who decided that smoking was a proclamation of faith ?  Who decided not speaking was a core part of their beliefs ?  Why do they dress all in white and who made that decision ?  Was it some sort of group decision or is there one person driving the GR ? Who started the GR ?  

 

In the book,

these questions about the GR are never revealed.

Edited July 18, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Constantinople]

So they don't want to waste their breath by talking, but they inhale and exhale tobacco and nicotine?  Not that every sect needs to have dogma that makes sense, but there is very little about the group that would make it one that would attract so many members. 

 

Free cigarettes for life could attract a lot of people.

 

According to the CDC, about 42 million people in the US smoke cigarettes.

 

If the results of my internet search are accurate, New York has the highest cigarette taxes of any state in the nation, and the average cost of a pack of cigarettes runs from $12 - $15 (depending on which web site you're on).

[ganesh]

"We don't smoke for enjoyment. We smoke to proclaim our faith."

Fair enough, but I don't see from watching these three episodes what exactly "faith" means for the GR. Clearly, colloquially, it means christianity, but I've not seen any christian motifs. Also, I don't think there's anything in bible that says to stalk people. 

 

So faith in what? Shiva? Jesus? Buddha? Zoroaster? Odin? 

 

In the lack of any evidence, all outcomes are equally likely.

[shapeshifter]

"We don't smoke for enjoyment. We smoke to proclaim our faith."

Fair enough, but I don't see from watching these three episodes what exactly "faith" means for the GR. Clearly, colloquially, it means christianity, but I've not seen any christian motifs. Also, I don't think there's anything in bible that says to stalk people. 

 

So faith in what? Shiva? Jesus? Buddha? Zoroaster? Odin? 

 

In the lack of any evidence, all outcomes are equally likely.

Maybe we're overthinking it. They smoke to proclaim their faith that they will not be removed (i.e., die of lung cancer)?? IDK.

But this makes sense, LOL:

Free cigarettes for life could attract a lot of people.

[ganesh]

That's possible. Colloquially, use of "faith" implies a religious belief. It's quite the semantic waltz to be like, "well, we didn't *say* religion."

[Ronin Jackson]

Free cigarettes for life could attract a lot of people.

 

According to the CDC, about 42 million people in the US smoke cigarettes.

 

If the results of my internet search are accurate, New York has the highest cigarette taxes of any state in the nation, and the average cost of a pack of cigarettes runs from $12 - $15 (depending on which web site you're on).

 

Perhaps.... TPTB may have blown it by not depicting Meg as a chain smoker.  It would all suddenly make sense, but alas it is still tediously befuddling.  

 

Incidentally, this does make me wonder where the GR gets all the cash in it's coffers to keep it's cabal of all day all the time chain smokers well stocked AND have enough left over to buy up struggling churches.

[Jamoche]

Yes but what frazzled mother hasn't secretly wished, just once, that her annoying, crying child would just go away, or reluctantly thought they'd wish they'd never had kids? That goes back to the 'guilty' part of the GR - maybe they think they caused this to happen.

That brings up the very first thing to strike me about this show - in the trailer, it seems like the baby hasn't been crying long because it's the kind of baby-cry that you get when you've been holding a baby and then stop, the sort of thing that's likely to start up when you put down a kid and walk away to get in the car. You feel bad but you can't do anything about it because, well, you have to get into the car. And it's a nice setup for the sudden silence of the disappearance - thinking "I wish the kid would just shut up" and then he does? Well, that was the one scene from the trailer that drew me in.

 

In the actual episode, the baby was doing the same "just cuddle me or something!" cry constantly while the mom did all sorts of errands and didn't once seem concerned about him. Not one attempt to find out why the kid's upset or comfort him. So the idea that this mom was thinking "I wish this kid would just shut up or go away or something" and now feels guilty, when she did nothing at all to stop the crying - well, sucks to be you.

[izabella]

Incidentally, this does make me wonder where the GR gets all the cash in it's coffers to keep it's cabal of all day all the time chain smokers well stocked AND have enough left over to buy up struggling churches.

 

I imagine the money has to come from the people who join the cult, right?  They had assets before the joining, so they probably pool all their funds to keep them going.  They need to feed themselves somehow.

[carllav]

Anyone else think it's interesting that the preachers wife went comatose at the same time as "the departure" happened? Like perhaps she was taken, but some how her body was 'left over'?

[stillshimpy]

Anyone else think it's interesting that the preachers wife went comatose at the same time as "the departure" happened? Like perhaps she was taken, but some how her body was 'left over'?

 

Well, Pastor Matt was driving and at the time of The Departure, he collided with a car driven by someone who did depart, leaving a car careening down the road.  His wife was injured in that car accident -- we see her bloody and collapsed against an air bag in the car he was driving, as well as the driver-less vehicle that caused the collision.   Just saying, it seems more likely she was just grievously injured by someone else's departure rather than being an "Oopsie, we left the body on that one! Doesn't matter, she's just a shell. Onward!"  

 

It also explains part of why it is so important for the Pastor to debunk the notion that this was the Rapture.  Not only would a person of faith be kind of stymied by the entire "Wait, what?  Shouldn't I have gone too? I'm ye old Man of the Cloth! Preacher of the Good Book! Faith aplenty! Why am I still here?"  aspect, I think the fact that it more or less ended his wife's life would make it imperative for him . 

Edited August 4, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Milburn Stone]

For us, this was a fabulous episode. Psychologically rich, tragic, almost unbearably suspenseful. Mrs. Stone was in such exquisite agony that she actually exclaimed to herself, "It's just a television show," in order to be able to deal with it. And I was right with her.

 

And we loved how, at least so far, the show always gives us something we don't expect. Like, how after the first two episodes established a template of following several story lines at once, this one spent the whole hour on one character, a character who was at most a peripheral one in the first two episodes. Which means the first two episodes didn't really establish a template at all--they only seemed to. Meaning we have no idea what's coming next!

[pingpongaffair]

Just started watching the show, I'm only on episode 3. So I won't be reading this thread, even though I started it. I love the scene in S01 E03 where the reverend bets at the Indian casino and wins every time. Great scene! I'm so happy for him!

This show is beautifully done! So much visual poetry. And I love the opening title sequence. It is so cool.

 

What is your favorite scene? Why?

Favorite characters? Mine is the cop's daughter's best friend. She's the only character that provides a little bit of comic relief.

I'm so interested to see what happens with the "important" Asian girl. Wonder what that's all about.

 

Also, I am a smoker. I love to smoke, so I appreciate the GR, haha.