S10.E14: Look at the Flowers

[alrightythen]

Okay, I'm convinced that I could write a better episode than these writers.  That was rough to watch.  Aside from my general grumbling, I did wonder aloud at a few things:

What exactly happened to Ezekiel's horse?  Another dark scene - I couldn't see what was happening.  I hate it when horses get killed. 

Isn't anyone going to go looking for Connie, or at the very least, mention her name?  Magna showed up.  It never occurred to anyone that maybe Connie's still out there too?  Way to look out for your people, people.

Magna was almost unrecognizable to me.  I was trying to figure out if it was her lips or something else.

For crying out loud, not another herd!  Lose the herds!  I don't care about them.

[CletusMusashi]

 I agree. Daryl should be tearing up those caves looking for Connie. Not only because she seemed to be his first ZA love, but also because she's extremely popular with actual, real life,  watching a new episode the night that it airs, hard-core viewers. All thirty or forty of us.

[tennisgurl]

"Nobody who deserved it"? So is this the show just hoping that we dont remember how many people Negan abused and murdered, or is Negan just re-writing his own history? Or both? Got to say, I am leaning towards both. Its like the show thinks that we forgot everything that happened (even if they literally just reminded us last week of how he bashed Abe and Glenn's heads in last week) when Negan was running Negan-Land, but I totally freaking remember. he was a shit, and remains a shit, just a shit not currently killing the good guys. What a solid redemption, managing to five minutes without killing a non bad guy! What do you want, a freaking cookie? 

So Alpha keeps on yammering on even from beyond the grave, because neither her disembodied head nor her ghost can take a hint and shut the fuck up. Its like this show is trolling me. Oh, you wanted Alpha to die so you wouldn't have to listen to her psycho-philosophical bullshit anymore? Well, you get half of that! Hah! 

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

 I agree. Daryl should be tearing up those caves looking for Connie.

Oh, right. Connie. I forgot she existed. I guess Daryl did too.

[mrspidey]

14 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

He was certainly just about to kill Carl, who didn't deserve it and who was (supposed to be) a kid. He brutally murdered the doctor (who didn't deserve it) and there was his hot-iron torturing and his on-going rapes of those women. But maybe he thinks they all deserved it. 

I've never had a problem with him offing Glenn and Abe. In fact I thought he was rather restrained after all of his people Rick&Gang murdered in their beds.

ETA: Wasn't it actually Jesus who told Rick to murder the Saviors?

I distinctly remember the deal being sealed by Maggie and Gregory shaking hands. 

As for Carl, I guess it depends on what Negan sees as kids. Maybe teenagers are a grey area for him. Maybe with "kids" he's referring to the Hilltop children that Alpha was willing to kill, and the newborn she was willing to abandon at the Hilltop?

Concerning the rape and torture, he didn't mention it anyway, either because he knows he's got no leg to stand on there or because it's just not something we've seen the Whisperers do.

Divergent Comic Version sidebar:

Spoiler

Alpha does openly condone rape in the comics because it's "nature's way", even Lydia has been raped by other Whisperers and Alpha is fine with it. 

Ultimately, the rape-thing is the deal breaker for Negan, so he kills Alpha. He's never even met Lydia at that point. 

 

[gutbuster]

Beta skinned Alpha's head and then immediately put her face on his own face. A fresh rotting piece of skin with blood and gore on the inside which he is obviously never going to take off.

Because he never takes off his everyday mask, I feel like he should have a serious skin condition going on on his actual face but from what we've seen he just seems to be extra filthy.

Every time one of the Whisperers talks to Beta he kills them.  WHY do they keep talking to him? Why do they keep talking once Beta makes it VERY clear he doesn't like what they are saying? He randomly kills Whisperers who happen to be standing near him. WHY do they keep standing near him? How can a group full of so many stupid people without any sense of self preservation be any kind of threat? 

I'm not too worried yet that they are pulling a Heath with Connie. Hopefully her absence is due to the actress being temporarily busy with her other projects, but they really need to do a better job of explaining why no one is looking for her. Magna escaped the herd, why not Connie? Magna didn't see Connie die. If they are all assuming she died, then they should have the characters SAY that, or mourn her in some kind of way. Especially since they all apparently became BFFs at some point off camera if Jerry's welcoming back of Magna was any indication. Count me as one who was wondering when the hell Jerry became so close with Magna. Unless Jerry just loves everyone.

In spite of Apha's continued presence, Carol's nonsense, Negan's nonsense, and a lot of other nonsense, I still somehow actually enjoyed this episode. I actually even LAUGHED in a good way when they showed the Gypsy Town walkers and Ezekiel's reaction to them. I had an emotional response to this show other than ambivalence, frustration, disappointment, rage, or pure disdain!

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, gutbuster said:

Beta skinned Alpha's head and then immediately put her face on his own face. A fresh rotting piece of skin with blood and gore on the inside which he is obviously never going to take off.

Because he never takes off his everyday mask, I feel like he should have a serious skin condition going on on his actual face but from what we've seen he just seems to be extra filthy.

Every time one of the Whisperers talks to Beta he kills them.  WHY do they keep talking to him? Why do they keep talking once Beta makes it VERY clear he doesn't like what they are saying? He randomly kills Whisperers who happen to be standing near him. WHY do they keep standing near him? How can a group full of so many stupid people without any sense of self preservation be any kind of threat? 

I'm not too worried yet that they are pulling a Heath with Connie. Hopefully her absence is due to the actress being temporarily busy with her other projects, but they really need to do a better job of explaining why no one is looking for her. Magna escaped the herd, why not Connie? Magna didn't see Connie die. If they are all assuming she died, then they should have the characters SAY that, or mourn her in some kind of way. Especially since they all apparently became BFFs at some point off camera if Jerry's welcoming back of Magna was any indication. Count me as one who was wondering when the hell Jerry became so close with Magna. Unless Jerry just loves everyone.

 

I get the feeling that the people who run this show aren't happy when their actors take time off to work on bigger and better projects.  That's why Connie has been disappeared.  So Magna (I've been calling her 'Magma' too) is greeted as if she's the Queen of Alexandria and even Connie's family hasn't even been bothered enough to try and find her corpse.  She could be a walker, stumbling around with a pen and paper for all they know.  Or care.

Quote

In spite of Apha's continued presence, Carol's nonsense, Negan's nonsense, and a lot of other nonsense, I still somehow actually enjoyed this episode. I actually even LAUGHED in a good way when they showed the Gypsy Town walkers and Ezekiel's reaction to them. I had an emotional response to this show other than ambivalence, frustration, disappointment, rage, or pure disdain!

I remember those days.

[rmontro]

17 hours ago, alrightythen said:

For crying out loud, not another herd!  Lose the herds!  I don't care about them.

Lol, they keep making the herds bigger and bigger to make them look more threatening, but they never really do anything.

I'm pretty sure the horse got bit by a walker, there was a bite mark on it.  I think it was implied, I don't think they showed it, there was just a horse whimper offscreen?  Could have been a coyote I guess  🙂 

 

11 hours ago, mrspidey said:

As for Carl, I guess it depends on what Negan sees as kids. Maybe teenagers are a grey area for him. Maybe with "kids" he's referring to the Hilltop children that Alpha was willing to kill, and the newborn she was willing to abandon at the Hilltop?

I had thought that myself, that maybe he didn't include teenagers.  However, it appears he was specifically talking about Lydia, so that doesn't wash.  I don't remember if Negan said this on TWD or if Jeffery Dean Morgan said it on Talking Dead, but he said Lydia was the dealbreaker for him.  If Alpha hadn't been going to kill Lydia, he probably wouldn't have killed her.  Because he had been in a jail cell for seven years, and was enjoying the freedom.

 

4 hours ago, gutbuster said:

Every time one of the Whisperers talks to Beta he kills them.  WHY do they keep talking to him?

Alpha was nearly as bad.  I guess that's what people want in a leader in the ZA, someone who will kill you if you talk to them.

[mrspidey]

43 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I had thought that myself, that maybe he didn't include teenagers.  However, it appears he was specifically talking about Lydia, so that doesn't wash. 

Well, she probably just didn't deserve it then. 

[AngelaHunter]

13 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Concerning the rape and torture, he didn't mention it anyway, either because he knows he's got no leg to stand on there or because it's just not something we've seen the Whisperers do.

He didn't mention it probably because he didn't see anything wrong with it, and it wasn't a grim "I have to do this for the good of all" thing. He took enormous pleasure - glee -  in dispensing death, pain and humiliation. As for Lydia, she's around the same age as Amber was, I believe, and he reveled in mentally torturing and raping her. Good thing Lydia's mom took care of Negan's primal urges, or she might have been on his "to-do" list as well. Yeah, he's a jolly good fellow that nobody can deny!

 

[iMonrey]

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How can a group full of so many stupid people without any sense of self preservation be any kind of threat? 

And that, my friends, is the $60,000 question.

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Count me as one who was wondering when the hell Jerry became so close with Magna. Unless Jerry just loves everyone.

Jerry does love everyone, but the show is trying to use short-hand to establish that Magna & Co. are now part of "the community" and are not only known to all but beloved by all. The show is too busy planting Easter eggs and coming up with awesome new special effects to bother with boring stuff like character development.

[CletusMusashi]

8 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

She could be a walker, stumbling around with a pen and paper for all they know.  

If she does die, I kind of need to see that.

Connie: Scribble,scribble,scribble.

Daryl: Oh, hi, Connie. What's this say? "Garrrrr... argle. Brack, brack, brack, brack! Brogargagar. Argle brack. Shizzarf krobarbleglak sharrrr glomp fufyarrr." Hey, your spelling is almost as bad as Lydia's. Ow! I'm sorry! I take it back! Stop biting me!

[nodorothyparker]

11 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

If she does die, I kind of need to see that.

Connie: Scribble,scribble,scribble.

Daryl: Oh, hi, Connie. What's this say? "Garrrrr... argle. Brack, brack, brack, brack! Brogargagar. Argle brack. Shizzarf krobarbleglak sharrrr glomp fufyarrr." Hey, your spelling is almost as bad as Lydia's. Ow! I'm sorry! I take it back! Stop biting me!

I'm going to need her to at least go Dawn of the Dead Andy the sign guy.

[heisenberg]

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The walkers were probably the only ones ever attracted to his music.

🤣😂

[AngelaHunter]

On 4/1/2020 at 5:32 AM, icemiser69 said:

The walkers were probably the only ones ever attracted to his music.

I would pay to see Beta do this:

 

[Audpaud]

It always feels so weird to come here and read the comments because I love this show. Especially the last 2 seasons. It has its ups and downs like any long running series but its definitely holding up in our household.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Plus, there is so little character development in this series, it is hard to get emotionally invested.  They keep relying on tired old characters, instead of building up new ones.

They don't even do that. I could get behind a pared-down cast and follow smaller groups led by Carol, Daryl, Aaron, Alden, Ezekial, etc. if the episodes were more character based as they were in the earlier seasons. Unfortunately the show has moved largely towards spectacle and gimmicks, and the new characters they try to introduce don't have any depth to them. There are just way too many red shirts and colonies and nameless background extras now to get emotionally involved in anyone or anything. And as you say, the few familiar characters left are driven by nonsensical plot. The absurdity of the Whisperers has turned the characters into jokes.

[seacliffsal]

"Look at the flowers" was one of the best lines in one of the best episodes of the entire series (IMO).  So, why did they ruin the remembrance of that episode by using it as the title of this one?  I am so confused because I don't even know what they were referencing in this episode by the title.

Oh, and I laughed at the  zombie tableaus that were created in whatever city they find themselves in.

And, like others-STOP killing horses.  It wasn't even a necessary plot point as they all made it to whatever city they wanted.  It's not like it endangered them.  I hope it wasn't so Ezekial would receive a little "pep" talk.

[AngelaHunter]

30 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

"Look at the flowers" was one of the best lines in one of the best episodes of the entire series (IMO).  So, why did they ruin the remembrance of that episode by using it as the title of this one? 

Again, do they really want viewers to think, "Oh, that reminds me of when this show was actually good."? That line, when originally used, was just gut-wrenching and shocking. Now? More recycled nonsense that's meaningless.

I just rewatched because I know I miss a lot during the live chat, and well - not much else to do these days.

Ghost Alpha and Carol: Snoozefest.

Ditto Magma and Whatshername.

Ditto Eugene's big moment of convoluted nonsense to convince people they should go look for his online date.

How did Beta get that record player working? I'm pretty sure that would take electricity. Was that one of his own songs? If so, I can see that a twangy ballad about pulling scabs off probably didn't make it to the Top 10, hence his annoyance.

Daryl, don't bother keeping that bow pointed at Negan all that time. We all know you have no intention of killing him, ever.

Even when they don't actually kill horses on this show, they're incredibly careless with them. Dismount, drop the reins, don't bother tying them and just let them wander or run off while someone is having a heart-to-heart or monloguing. Do they have some inexhaustible supply of saddle horses and gear that they don't give a damn if they lose them constantly?

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I actually like that part of it.  I wouldn't want to see horses tied up so they couldn't get away.  Too many horses have become walker chow.  One horse dying is one horse too many.

I mean in situations like when Michonne went out to talk to Zeke so they could decide if they wanted to hook up.  Instead of keeping them near and safe, (at the very least they are valuable commodities) they just left the horses to wander off, hampered by saddles, bridles and dragging reins, into forests infested by zombies. Even though we never see one there must be plenty of black bears there too. So maybe they'll make it home or maybe they'll die horrible deaths. In the meantime the riders are left to walk whatever distance they had come. It's just dumb all around.

[Nashville]

On 3/29/2020 at 9:20 PM, CletusMusashi said:

I think it was a typo. They printed "Look at the Flowers" when they meant "Listen to More Alpha Monologues."

Just that notion alone would have me studying a patch of daisies and praying for sweet sweet release.

[CletusMusashi]

The whole ep would have been more fun if they combined both storylines. Beta could still go crazy and listen to the head, Alpha could still lecture Carol, but combine the two concepts. Just let Beta get in touch with his inner ventiloquist.

Beta (as Alpha): "I... aaaaaam... the ghost... of... meeean bitches past..."

Carol: "Alpha is dead. And you're three feet taller than that bush you're hiding behind."

Beta (as Alpha): "Yooo... arrrrr... juuust.. liiiiike... meeeee..."

Carol: "You haven't even got the accent right. It should be 'Yo ah just lock mia...'"

Beta: "Whooooo... iiiiiiiis... Mia?"

Carol: "Fuck if I know. I mean, I actually liked Henry, and even I can't be bothered with most of these new people's names."

Beta (as Alpha😞 "Thaayuuuuut eeeeiiiis whyuh aaaaaah ghev'd thaaaayum lettaaaaaaaaaas..."

Beta: "How was that?"

Carol: "Much better. But what does lettuce have to do with-"

Beta: "Aaaaalphabet letters. Like Aaaalpha. Aaaand... Beta..."

Carol: "But wouldn't you run out of letters pretty quick? What if there's like thirty people in your group?"

Random Whisperer: "Hey, boss, what do you want us to do about Negan? You know, know that the wicked witch is d-" (Beta rips minion's tongue out, feeds it to Alpha, and then snaps minion's neck with one hand.)

Beta: "Truuuuust meeee... that's not reeeeeally a problem..."

Edited April 7, 2020 by CletusMusashi

[seacliffsal]

I just remembered-not only did they recycle one of the best lines every (look at the flowers...) they also recycled a "ghost" plot as Lori came and haunted Rick after she died and then in this episode Alpha haunted Carol.

I think there really is a dearth of new ideas as they are recycling more and more plot lines.  

[AngelaHunter]

On 4/6/2020 at 9:41 PM, CletusMusashi said:

Beta (as Alpha): "I... aaaaaam... the ghost... of... meeean bitches past..."

Carol: "Alpha is dead. And you're three feet taller than that bush you're hiding behind."

Beta (as Alpha): "Yooo... arrrrr... juuust.. liiiiike... meeeee..."

Carol: "You haven't even got the accent right. It should be 'Yo ah just lock mia...'"

Beta: "Whooooo... iiiiiiiis... Mia?"

Carol: "Fuck if I know. I mean, I actually liked Henry, and even I can't be bothered with most of these new people's names."

Beta (as Alpha😞 "Thaayuuuuut eeeeiiiis whyuh aaaaaah ghev'd thaaaayum lettaaaaaaaaaas..."

Beta: "How was that?"

Carol: "Much better. But what does lettuce have to do with-"

Beta: "Aaaaalphabet letters. Like Aaaalpha. Aaaand... Beta..."

Carol: "But wouldn't you run out of letters pretty quick? What if there's like thirty people in your group?"

Random Whisperer: "Hey, boss, what do you want us to do about Negan? You know, know that the wicked witch is d-" (Beta rips minion's tongue out, feeds it to Alpha, and then snaps minion's neck with one hand.)

Beta: "Truuuuust meeee... that's not reeeeeally a problem..."

I'm pretty sure I'd rather watch this show. 😄