Season 16 Live Feed Discussion: Keeping an Eye Out

[peachmangosteen]

I am currently reading some recaps from last night and I am getting a real kick out of Derrick and Cody talking about the Hitmen being better than Chilltown and the Renegades. Oh honeys! I want them filmed while they watch this season and see that the Hitmen got mentioned like twice the whole season.

[house864]

That depends on if you consider the last eviction as two nominees...Jason and Danielle were the final nominees in season 3....Emmet and Julienne were the final two for BB Canada 1 but no one has made it all the way to final 2 without at least being one of the final 2 automatic nominees...that's what I meant.

[Wings]

Ariana has been in the entertainment news lately with her Diva antics.  Her manager also manages Justin Bieber and he seems to be putting a thumb on Biebers head so perhaps she is getting a gag order on the Frankie situation, too.  No tweets for Frankie and a picture disappearing with his his pic on her t-shirt.  Doesn't matter, he is not going to get FF.  

[AndreaK1041]

 

Honestly, most of the previously evicted HG's seem surprisingly self aware after they rejoined the real world and know they are not going to win so they've been campaigning all season for Donny or Zach, probably because they know those two have the best chance and Brittany posted #anyonebutFrankie.

Except Joey!  She is actively campaigning for herself, and seems to be doing so unironically.  

[Eolivet]

I am currently reading some recaps from last night and I am getting a real kick out of Derrick and Cody talking about the Hitmen being better than Chilltown and the Renegades. Oh honeys! I want them filmed while they watch this season and see that the Hitmen got mentioned like twice the whole season.

 

How long does it take until the feeds come on -- several days? I actually don't buy the Hitmen as a day 2 alliance. I think that's easy to say because it's impossible to disprove (and I will concede if there is indeed video evidence of the Hitmen being formed on day 2). But if you had two players making a final 2 deal on day 2, I think the show would've jumped on that  -- and I don't recall the Hitmen even being mentioned until after the Bomb Squad was formed (and maybe even not until the Bomb Squad became the Detonators).

 

These magical day 2 alliances are popping up more and more. Andy and Gina-Marie were also a day 2 alliance that materialized suddenly, if I recall correctly.

 

I don't deny that Derrick and Cody have had a final 2 deal or the Hitmen isn't a legitimate alliance, but I also think they might've borrowed some of Caleb's magical story-enhancing elixir to make them seem a lot more impressive than they are.

[willpwr]

The thing with Cody and why I think he's being loyal to Derrick, besides him and Derrick making a F2 deal since day 2 is that he probably feels like Derrick has been protecting him and they've formed a big brother/little brother bond and Derrick has done an excellent job of making him feel included in the decision making process. Derrick and Frankie were the main two that wanted Cody in the Bomb Squad, that helped him greatly otherwise he would have been targeted from the start especially after he pissed off Caleb with the Amber flirting. The only one that could have made Cody turn on Derrick was Donny and he used the completely wrong approach, Cody's used to being seen as a good looking dumb kid, Donny made fun of him being dumb and pretty much told him he was being used and too dumb to see it whereas Derrick made him feel smart. He probably felt like everyone kind of turned on him when they first began pointing out how horrible his relationship with Christine looked but Derrick, even though he also made fun of him was the first one to tell him that he wasn't to blame so while everyone was making him feel shitty, Derrick helped make him feel better. There are so many reasons why he's been loyal that while I've faulted him for playing Derrick's game, he probably sees it as there can only be two people in the F2 so even though he didn't want to, he would have to get rid of everyone else at some point either way, might as well be when big bro decided and listened to his input.

[peachmangosteen]

Doesn't matter, he is not going to get FF.

 

I don't think Frankie not getting America's Fave is as done a deal as say Derrick winning the game. I mean if Production wants him to win, he'll win. And while I doubt they really want him to win, I can't be sure because obviously there are people in Production that at the very least believe they have to suck up to Frankie and one of them is definitely AG, who makes all the final decisions.

Eolivet, the feeds come on after the HGs have been in the house for an entire week. But I'm with you, I'm not so sure I buy Hitmen as a Day 2 alliance. At the very least, they weren't calling themselves Hitmen until much later in the game. To know for sure, I'd have to go back and watch the ep where they name themselves to see if they did a flashback of them forming, but I don't care enough to do that!

Edited September 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

 

I don't think Frankie not getting America's Fave is as done a deal as say Derrick winning the game. I mean if Production wants him to win, he'll win. And while I doubt they really want him to win, I can't be sure because obviously there are people in Production that at the very least believe they have to suck up to Frankie and one of them is definitely AG, who makes all the final decisions.

Eolivet, the feeds come on after the HGs have been in the house for an entire week. But I'm with you, I'm not so sure I buy Hitmen as a Day 2 alliance. At the very least, they weren't calling themselves Hitmen until much later in the game.

 

 

Yeah, I hear you.  I always resist thinking production goes so far as to rig a public vote.  Sigh, they probably do. 

 

I believe that Derrick and Cody connected on day 2 and decided to align in much the same what Devin and Donny did.  A let's see where this goes type of thing.  I can see that happening easily.  Neither stood out as quirky or odd and appeared, to each other, as maybe similar.   Had Cody not been part of the larger alliance (whatever the fuck it was called back then) that formed, I am not sure it would have held up.  They named themselves MUCH later in the game. 

[LoveLeigh]

I think if either Derrick or Cody get to f2 and do not take Victoria, it is a crap shoot if they go together to f2. I think the vote will be very close. If Derrick loses, he will still be walking away with plenty of money. Does anybody have the exact amount if he does not win how much he will get from his wins and AC? 

[peachmangosteen]

Yeah, I hear you.  I always resist thinking production goes so far as to rig a public vote.  Sigh, they probably do. 

 

I'm not sure if I truly believe they'd rig a public vote. It's always in the back of my mind though. I mean they'll rig a lot of shit, so why not that really.

 

Does anybody have the exact amount if he does not win how much he will get from his wins and AC? 

 

Derrick has made $20K with TA and $5K from the snowmen HOH comp, so if he doesn't win the game he'll have a total of $25K. Plus whatever the jury stipend is if he isn't F2,which is basically not possible at this point. If he wins the game, he'll have a total of $575K.

Edited September 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Skycatcher]

Peachmangosteen forgot to mention the $50K Team America award Derrick would get if he won.  That's how Peach's figures jump from $525K to $575K.

[Wings]

 

Derrick has made $20K with TA and $5K from the snowmen HOH comp, so if he doesn't win the game he'll have a total of $25K. Plus whatever the jury stipend is if he isn't F2,which is basically not possible at this point. If he wins the game, he'll have a total of $575K.

 

 

If he is F2 he will win 50k plus his 25k.  So 75k in total.  

[peachmangosteen]

I think if either Derrick or Cody get to f2 and do not take Victoria, it is a crap shoot if they go together to f2. I think the vote will be very close.

 

I love your dreams!

 

I think that there's about the same amount of potential for a close vote in Derrick vs. Victoria as there is in Derrick vs. Cody or, IMO, actually more so if it's D vs. V. But at the end of the day the only way Derrick would lose was if the jury was very bitter towards him and I think it seems pretty clear that they're not bitter enough about it to vote for one of his puppets.

 

If he is F2 he will win 50k plus his 25k.  So 75k in total.  

 

Really? Was this stated in the episode because Frankie/Derrick made it seem like they had to win to make the $50K extra. Or at least that's what all the feed reports said.

Edited September 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Katesus7]

The $50k is second place money, not TA money.

[Wings]

I don't get the feeling that this is a bitter jury as a whole. They have all gotten along for the most part and probably having a good time in the jury house with little strife.  That plays a part in how grounded they are when they vote.  Frankie is going to storm in there, guns blazing, and ready to prove that he is, indeed jesus, and will try to stage the outcome, whatever that might be.  Hard to know if he will have any influence.  Caleb is the one is was laying for so who knows.  Derrick fogged him before he left.  

[peachmangosteen]

The $50k is second place money, not TA money.

 

Oh yes duh, of course. 

 

I wonder if Frankie will try to claim he was the one that decided Derrick would win even though obviously the jury was going to vote for him anyway? It's Frankie, so probably.

[LGGirl]

I bet if Derrick wins the final HOH, he's taking Victoria. Cody will be blindsided. And Derrick isn't going to throw the last comp. He'll fight for it. It should be a dog fight. Cody has done well in the all types of comps.

[TheRealT]

The thing with Cody and why I think he's being loyal to Derrick, besides him and Derrick making a F2 deal since day 2 is that he probably feels like Derrick has been protecting him and they've formed a big brother/little brother bond and Derrick has done an excellent job of making him feel included in the decision making process. Derrick and Frankie were the main two that wanted Cody in the Bomb Squad, that helped him greatly otherwise he would have been targeted from the start especially after he pissed off Caleb with the Amber flirting. The only one that could have made Cody turn on Derrick was Donny and he used the completely wrong approach, Cody's used to being seen as a good looking dumb kid, Donny made fun of him being dumb and pretty much told him he was being used and too dumb to see it whereas Derrick made him feel smart. He probably felt like everyone kind of turned on him when they first began pointing out how horrible his relationship with Christine looked but Derrick, even though he also made fun of him was the first one to tell him that he wasn't to blame so while everyone was making him feel shitty, Derrick helped make him feel better. There are so many reasons why he's been loyal that while I've faulted him for playing Derrick's game, he probably sees it as there can only be two people in the F2 so even though he didn't want to, he would have to get rid of everyone else at some point either way, might as well be when big bro decided and listened to his input.

This is an excellent description of how Derrick works. He's very perceptive in figuring out what a person's weak spots are and what they want to hear and he works both of those angles. Both Cody and Victoria are sensitive about "looking stupid," so he's always pumping them up about how smart they are and he acts as if he really values their opinions. With Frankie, he fed his ego about how brilliant and amazing Frankie is and pretended to feel a special bond with him because of TA and their grandfathers dying. With Zach, he told him that he still liked, respected, and valued Zach despite Zach being such a colossal fuck up, which made Zach feel like Derrick was honest and that he really liked Zach. When people didn't respond to Derrick's smoke blowing, he distrusted them and vowed to get them out.

 

Derrick definitely prefers to work with people who are very dumb and pliable, so it really benefited him that they cast so many young, dumb followers this year. Except for Frankie, Devin, Amber, and Caleb, I think everyone in the BS/Detonators/Hitman was under 24. That's crazy. Caleb is a special case whose maturity and savvy are similar to someone in their early 20's (or younger) and Derrick elected to cut Devin and Amber early and would have cut Frankie sooner if it weren't for TA and his comp wins. I don't think that that's strictly because of age, per se, but it's indicative of Derrick's inability/refusal to work with people as peers. He has snowed his allies just as much or even more than he's snowed his non-allies, so his game wouldn't work with players who weren't completely taken in by him. If Cody weren't so dumb, he would realize that Derrick would NEVER go to the end with him if he thought there was the slightest chance that Cody would beat him. Derrick is totally NOT a "Let's go to the end and let the chips fall where they may!" type AT ALL. Derrick doesn't give a fuck about some fake "honor" that shifts with every HOH/Veto comp anyway.

 

The "honor" nonsense is yet another example of how these morons have been taken in by Derrick's double talk. Supposedly, their alliance was based on the idea that it's honorable to go to the end with strong players who "deserve" to be there and/or that it's honorable to stick with the alliance no matter what. Winning against weak players would be "dishonorable" and it would be better to lose to a "deserving" alliancemate. Yet, they cut alliance members while leaving non-members in over and over and explicitly targeted people because they were good at comps and posed a threat. No one cared about those obvious contradictions until it was their turn to go on the chopping block and some were ok with it even then. Derrick's Honor Code also decreed that someone "playing for his family" (defined as his spouse and child) was more deserving of the money than someone "not" playing for their family (because they don't have the required spouse and offspring to qualify). They all just accepted that and when Frankie explicitly pointed it out this week (he undoubtedly realized it was bullshit all along, but he didn't have the balls to say it out loud until he had nothing to lose) they didn't care because everyone had pretty much already accepted Derrick winning by then. Again, how lucky for Derrick that there were so few parents cast this year and how wise of him to evict the other parents early on.

[peachmangosteen]

The final HOH is not something I think can ever be a dog fight. It's purely up to guessing! You can't even really throw it even if you try. I want Derrick to try to throw it and then win anyway, like with the DE HOH. It'd be hilarious.

 

I think now that he'll actually take Cody. Victoria will still vote for him even if he cuts her, but Cody could possibly hold it against him. Plus now that Cody outted Hitmen (which gave me such pleasure since Derrick was pressed about it!) he could possibly look a bit bad if he cut him. And another thing, he spent a lot of time selling the "you're an awful person who deserves to lose if you take Victoria to the end," thing to everyone that it might be a tad bad for him if he then took Victoria. 

 

But he'll win no matter what anyway so who knows maybe he will take Victoria.

Edited September 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[LGGirl]

The reason I say he'll take Victoria is because Derrick has played a very cautious game. He doesn't leave anything to chance.

Taking Cody is a gamble because he could win. He's won comps. He had a good social game. It could go either way. (We assume probably not but you never know)

Now sitting beside Victoria is pretty much a guarantee win. Unless the jury is very bitter and would never vote for you anyway.

ETA: Derrick has no honor. He's cut his whole alliance. If he had honor, Caleb would still be there. Victoria out. Another reason I say, he'll cut Cody.

Edited September 18, 2014 by LGGirl

[peachmangosteen]

I had thought all season he'd take Victoria, but I think Cody outting Hitmen might have worried him enough to take Cody.

 

Ultimately I think his choice is completely pointless because he's going to win no matter what.

 

I think there's really only two suspenseful things left; who Derrick would take (which ultimately is hollow suspense because it doesn't matter) and whether Derrick will get a unanimous vote or not.

 

I'm holding onto hope that Donny or Jocasta will prevent him from the unanimous vote. Apparently a lot of people think Jocasta hates Derrick. I didn't pick up on that myself. But if she does I may have to rethink my Jocasta dislike.

Edited September 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

The only exciting thing left is Julie exposing Derricks profession to the jury.  Gasps, shrieks, laughter and one 'I knew it!"  That is pretty much it.  Well no. Cody will be shocked to find out that Donny is not a "Harvard Medical Doctor."  And I always love to see what Julie is wearing, she is stunning.   Can anyone think of something to add to this list?

 

ETA- Donny winning fan favorite.  

Edited September 18, 2014 by wings707

[peachmangosteen]

From the recaps I'm reading it sounds like Derrick is at least thinking about revealing he's a cop in his F2 speech. I think that's a stupid plan, but it wouldn't end up hurting him anyway. But I wonder if DR will try to get him off doing it so Julie can reveal it during the finale.

 

It would be funny because Julie will be like, "Someone here was lying about their profession all along," and everyone will be like "I KNEW IT DONNY!" and then we can all laugh.

Edited September 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[AndreaK1041]

I think outing Team America is going to be entertaining, plus them hearing about Derrick's $50K bonus.  They will be unamused.

 

ETA: I think if Derrick outs himself, that is a huge error.  There is no need to put people in an emotional state right before they vote.  Keep calm, collect your money, and then tell them.

Edited September 18, 2014 by AndreaK1041

[peachmangosteen]

I think if Derrick outs himself, that is a huge error.  There is no need to put people in an emotional state right before they vote.  Keep calm, collect your money, and then tell them.

 

I agree. Although with the way jury questioning is structured now, it most likely wouldn't make a difference. But certainly if it was like it used to be, it would be a huge error, I think. 

Edited September 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

From the recaps I'm reading it sounds like Derrick is at least thinking about revealing he's a cop in his F2 speech. I think that's a stupid plan, but it wouldn't end up hurting him anyway. But I wonder if DR will try to get him off doing it so Julie can reveal it during the finale.

 

It would be funny because Julie will be like, "Someone here was lying about their profession all along," and everyone will be like "I KNEW IT DONNY!" and then we can all laugh.

 

Only the F3 will be surprised.  The jury all know now. 

I agree. Although with the way jury questioning is structured now, it most likely wouldn't make a difference. But certainly if it was like it used to be, it would be a huge error, I think. 

 

What is the new structure vs old?

[TheRealT]

I think now that he'll actually take Cody. Victoria will still vote for him even if he cuts her, but Cody could possibly hold it against him. Plus now that Cody outted Hitmen (which gave me such pleasure since Derrick was pressed about it!) he could possibly look a bit bad if he cut him. And another thing, he spent a lot of time selling the "you're an awful person who deserves to lose if you take Victoria to the end," thing to everyone that it might be a tad bad for him if he then took Victoria. 

 

But he'll win no matter what anyway so who knows maybe he will take Victoria.

 

 

The reason I say he'll take Victoria is because Derrick has played a very cautious game. He doesn't leave anything to chance.

Taking Cody is a gamble because he could win. He's won comps. He had a good social game. It could go either way. (We assume probably not but you never know)

Now sitting beside Victoria is pretty much a guarantee win. Unless the jury is very bitter and would never vote for you anyway.

ETA: Derrick has no honor. He's cut his whole alliance. If he had honor, Caleb would still be there. Victoria out. Another reason I say, he'll cut Cody.

 

 

I had thought all season he'd take Victoria, but I think Cody outting Hitmen might have worried him enough to take Cody.

 

Ultimately I think his choice is completely pointless because he's going to win no matter what.

 

I think there's really only two suspenseful things left; who Derrick would take (which ultimately is hollow suspense because it doesn't matter) and whether Derrick will get a unanimous vote or not.

 

I'm holding onto hope that Donny or Jocasta will prevent him from the unanimous vote. Apparently a lot of people think Jocasta hates Derrick. I didn't pick up on that myself. But if she does I may have to rethink my Jocasta dislike.

What Will Derrick Do? has been the only question that really mattered for most of the game, so i guess it's fitting that that's staying consistent. I was thinking that he will just throw the F3 HOH since either of them will definitely take him and that he was preparing to face Cody in F2 since, obviously, Vic can't win anything. But now I can see how he might be overthinking things and worry that Cody would take Vic to F2 (Which would never happen. Who would tell Cody what to say in his F2 speech if Derrick weren't there?). If Derrick does win, I think he will take Cody because he's already laid the groundwork for that with the "If anyone takes Vic to F2, we'll all vote for her" thing and now the Hitmen being revealed. I agree that it won't matter which one of them he takes. He might think that winning F3 and bringing Cody to F2 will regain him any ground he may have lost with the Bros since he can show that he's capable of winning comps when he needs to and that the Bro Loyalty thing wasn't complete bullshit. He'll compliment the hell out of the jury, telling them what awesome people they are and how hard he had to work to outfox them, which will mean a lot more to them coming from him than from Cody. Cody probably won't give a very strategic F2 pitch at all. He will look to Derrick to tell him what to say and Derrick will probably tell him to emphasize how he was friends with everyone and won a lot of comps. Then Derrick will have a speech prepared that handily trounces those arguments.

[Skycatcher]

I think all this blather about honor and loyalty is hysterically absurd.  While I think for some HGs it's heart-felt, even with them, there's some obvious posturing going on.  If these people were truly loyal and honorable, once their word was given, they wouldn't be able to vote any of their alliance mates out - ever. This game is not about honor and loyalty.  It's about being the last person standing, by any means possible, and winning $500+K.   That's one of my pet peeves about these reality shows - they reward "bad" behavior, and punish the more honorable behaviors.  But I can't envision a (successful) reality show that promotes good behaviors, and rewards honor and loyalty.

 

ETA:

 

The jury all know now. [Derrickis a cop]

How did they figure it out.  Who figured it out? When did this happen?

Edited September 18, 2014 by Skycatcher

[SiobhanJW]

I agree. Although with the way jury questioning is structured now, it most likely wouldn't make a difference. But certainly if it was like it used to be, it would be a huge error, I think.

I think that he Jury will be going in already ready to vote for Derrick. So I don't think him saying he is a cop will hurt him much. But who knows.

I agree with one of the above posters that I think Derrick has to take Cody now. Especially since he outed the Hitmen. I think it only makes him look better in the Jury's eyes that he 1. Stayed true to a Final 2 deal that he made day 2 and 2. Didn't take Victoria cuz I think that is what they all expect.

I expect a 9-0 or 8-1 or 8-2 vote. It's not going to be close.

Only the F3 will be surprised. The jury all know now.

The Jury and Cody and Vic have NO idea Derrick is a cop. Frankie said it as a joke a few months ago but Derrick laughed it off and then he never mentioned it again. Edited September 18, 2014 by SiobhanJW

[peachmangosteen]

What is the new structure vs old?

 

They used to have only the F2 for the last week in the house and they would bring the jury back to question the F2. It went on for like at the very least an hour. Now they have the jury talk amongst themselves, without the final jury member, and come up with questions to ask live during the finale. The questions are stupid and the segment only lasts like 10 minutes, so basically it's pointless. And the final juror has no idea how the rest of the jury is thinking.

 

I hate this format and wish they'd go back to the old way. It's not like having 3 people in the house for the final week is any more interesting than just 2.

Edited September 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Seawolff]

I don't think Cody is stupid at all. I think that it's easy to forget that the house guests don't get to see everything that we see. I think Cody thinks he'll win in the Final 2 with Derrick. He thinks he's perceived as just as involved as Derrick and he has more comp wins. What Cody doesn't understand is that the audience and the jury sees the behind the scenes manipulations by Derrick and so he's a shoe in to win.

I agree with the idea that Cody perceives himself as being the alpha male in the equation. I'm also thinking is that what he doesn't understand is that Derrick was also able to be just as closely bonded to others in the house as he was with Cody. I agree that the jury is aware of other manipulations...because they too were close with Derrick. But, what (IMO)will decide their vote is that EACH one of them knows that they worked more closely with Derrick than with anyone else in the house. Derrick was everyone's best friend.

In terms of what they were working with and what they knew, I actually think Victoria's game has made more sense than Cody's. When Vic got to the house she found that she didn't fall into fast friendships with many/any HGs. Obviously, she's no strategic mastermind, so I doubt that it even occurred to her to form fake friendships to advance her game like Derrick did......Derrick.......stepped into the role of big brother/best friend. When Derrick started talking game with her, she discovered that a) he had a much better handle on things than she did and b) he said he wanted to go to the end with her. At that point, it made sense for her to hitch her wagon to his star, especially since she had nothing else going on gamewise. As the game progressed, she became increasingly emotionally dependent on Derrick and he continually saved her, thus proving his loyalty and his ability in the game. Their "partnership" was basically Derrick telling her what to do and providing her with emotional support, which I think was very comfortable for Vic......... she correctly figured that sticking with Derrick was her best/only hope to get to F2 at all and hoped that maybe the jury would vote for her over him...... Even if that didn't happen, she'd still get $50K, which wouldn't be bad at all........ Her strategy was to stick to a strong player whom she completely trusted, do what he told her to do, and hope for the best. That makes sense for her.

Cody, on the other hand, has had a lot more options in the game and he has been much more aware of what's really going on. Unlike Vic, he would have at least been taken seriously if he tried to align with other players and he was actually good friends with several people besides Derrick. He's also had the opportunity to make decisions that would benefit his game by winning comps, but he's given that power to Derrick every time. I think he's quite similar to Vic in terms of.......needing the emotional support and guidance that Derrick so ably provides. His strategy has been pretty similar to Vic's, just with more comp wins, however, that strategy makes less sense for him because being up Derrick's ass was not his only realistic path to the end. He had other options,....... He knowingly made moves that hurt his game, but benefited Derrick's just because he was too scared to take a chance going against Derrick's orders and/or he was too lazy to think and work for himself. He's also bought into Derrick's "Bros Before Hos" and "The only honorable person to take to the end is me" crap, I think in part just because it provides a rationale to take the easy route. Victoria hasn't had to latch onto bullshit rationales because her game plan makes sense based on what she knows and is capable of. Cody's does not.

I don't think there's any suspense about Derrick winning. I literally can't see how he won't win at this point.

I agree with much of your post! I think your descriptions of Victoria's game and Cody's game describe EVERYONES game in relation to Derrick's game. I quoted you while deleting some specific parts because It describes the relationship that everyone in the house has with Derrick, and that is why Derrick will win.

I bolded a few words/ideas that I see differently:

....."form fake friendships to advance her game like Derrick did."

I think Derrick is more outgoing and able to interact or "make friends" with people outside of his comfort zone than Victoria and a lot of the other house guests. That doesn't make the relationships fake, and I don't think the relationships are fake. I think he truly knows how and genuinely wants to be each persons' friend. I believe that Derrick is actually a compassionate person who saw that Victoria was being isolated, and befriending her and comforting her .....befriending everyone and comforting everyone..... is what he does as a person, is what are his greatest tools as a cop, and, in this game, became the best strategy for getting to the end. That he can't open up to these people he has made friends with eats him up. What's cool is that after the game he can continue the friendships in ways that a cop can't always do in their work.

"He's also bought into Derrick's "Bros Before Hos" and "The only honorable person to take to the end is me" crap, I think in part just because it provides a rationale to take the easy route"

I think the "Bros before Hos" was the brainchild of Devon, Frankie and Caleb and was probably perpetuated by Frankie and Christine more than anyone. Devon included girls in the alliance for the purpose of infiltrating the girls.Derrick was forced to both include himself in the alliance and to rubber stamp that aspect or risk alienation.

The thing with Cody and why I think he's being loyal to Derrick, besides him and Derrick making a F2 deal since day 2 is that he probably feels like Derrick has been protecting him and they've formed a big brother/little brother bond and Derrick has done an excellent job of making him feel included in the decision making process. Derrick and Frankie were the main two that wanted Cody in the Bomb Squad, that helped him greatly otherwise he would have been targeted from the start especially after he pissed off Caleb with the Amber flirting. The only one that could have made Cody turn on Derrick was Donny and he used the completely wrong approach, Cody's used to being seen as a good looking dumb kid, Donny made fun of him being dumb and pretty much told him he was being used and too dumb to see it whereas Derrick made him feel smart. He probably felt like everyone kind of turned on him when they first began pointing out how horrible his relationship with Christine looked but Derrick, even though he also made fun of him was the first one to tell him that he wasn't to blame so while everyone was making him feel shitty, Derrick helped make him feel better. There are so many reasons why he's been loyal that while I've faulted him for playing Derrick's game, he probably sees it as there can only be two people in the F2 so even though he didn't want to, he would have to get rid of everyone else at some point either way, might as well be when big bro decided and listened to his input.

Again, more evidence of Derrick's skill at helping people move on from mistakes to become better players/people. These are amazing skills to bring into the big brother house. I have found this season to be very interesting than because of it. It makes me realize what I enjoy about big brother each season is that the game plays out differently each and every time because each set of people is different.

Would Derrick have done the same/as well on another season? It all depends! That's what's cool about it! IMO these people are not "the stupidest" and that's why Derrick is winning. Every season has a different set of personalities, circumstances and chances that all play into the atmosphere of the house and who gets to the end. Some seasons are train wrecks, some are roller coasters, some are just awful. For me, this season has been like a creepy murder mystery funhouse maze. I'm not going to hide it, I'm voting for Derrick for AFP.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Seawolff

[TimWil]

No, the jury doesn't know about Derrick. How could they unless he told them? This will be saved for Finale Night. I hope Victoria's facial expression will be as priceless as when she found out about Ariana Grande.

It's just been announced TVGN is being rebranded as POP. I can't wait for the likes of Rachel next summer to do promos for BB All Stars, saying stuff like "Watch us POP on POP!"

[gratefulgirl]

Derrick set Victoria up for his cop reveal (I have no idea if he's going to do it before or after he wins, but this makes it sound like he's thinking of doing it before)

Flashback 9/17, 10:37:45 pm, BBT

[Seawolff]

Derrick set Victoria up for his cop reveal (I have no idea if he's going to do it before or after he wins, but this makes it sound like he's thinking of doing it before)

Flashback 9/17, 10:37:45 pm, BBT

If he's doing this it is to spare her feelings. It's a little cookie he's throwing out into the matrix so that when the game is done she will know the friendship was sincere and she won't be crushed.

[SiobhanJW]

Derrick set Victoria up for his cop reveal (I have no idea if he's going to do it before or after he wins, but this makes it sound like he's thinking of doing it before)

Flashback 9/17, 10:37:45 pm, BBT

I think it's risky to do it before. If it was just the final 2 in the house like it was before then yeah no problem. He might reveal it to Cody or Victoria right after they make it to the Final 2 if they go to break or something. But by then he might as just say it to everyone.

[gratefulgirl]

I think it's a risky thing to do before as well, it doesn't make any sense.

But, if you watch the conversation, he brings up "What if someone was lying about who they were?"

And she replies that she would be really mad.

And then he pretty much twists it around and changes her mind into respecting it, and thinking that it would be really amazing.

 

Her gut reaction to someone lying about who they were was to be angry, and within two sentences he changed her mind..."Oh, I would totally vote for them because they did such a good job fooling me!" 

 

It was kind of masterful.

I think he might be on the fence about when to do his reveal (and seriously, it would be stupid to do it before) and he's just covering his bases in case he does decide to do it earlier.

[SiobhanJW]

From the Entertainment Weekly Interview just posted with Caleb:

You talked about how important loyalty is to you. Do you feel betrayed?

Yeah, more so by Derrick than by anybody.

What were your thoughts when Cody revealed the day 2 Hitmen alliance with Derrick?

I was a bit surprised. Honestly, I knew I was leaving so half of his speech I wasn’t even listening to. But I did hear that and was like, wow, because Derrick and I have had a final two for a long time. So to hear he had another final two just showed me where his loyalty really lies.

Had you made it to the end, whom were you planning to bring with you?

Derrick

Well wait until he gets to Jury and finds out he basically had a F2 deal with everyone!! Everyone said they would take Derrick. Crazy!

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/18/big-brother-caleb-beast-mode-cowboy/

Edited September 18, 2014 by SiobhanJW

[Eolivet]

You talked about how important loyalty is to you. Do you feel betrayed?
Yeah, more so by Derrick than by anybody.

 

This is why I hope if it's Derrick and Cody, Caleb votes for Cody. I've resigned myself to a Derrick win, but one dissenting vote would be nice.

 

Which is why if Derrick wins, he should probably take Victoria because in that case, he knows he'd have Caleb's vote. Sigh.

[AndreaK1041]

I don't know why, but I feel more confident that Derrick would take Cody then that Cody would take Derrick.  I see no reason in the world for Derrick to turn on his hitman; he wins either way and shows loyalty.  Cody has literally 450,000 reasons to turn on Derrick, though he does not see them.  I agree he thinks he has been running the show way more than he actually has.

[TheRealT]

 

But I can't envision a (successful) reality show that promotes good behaviors, and rewards honor and loyalty.

BB/Survivor/etc. could be that kind of show if the contestants all wanted to make it that way. A lot of contestants try to make it that way and many more pretend to want it to be that way, but usually the "honest" and "loyal" people are taken out by snakes who care more about the money. The tension between being honorable and being greedy is the underlying premise of these shows.

[gratefulgirl]

The tension between being honorable and being greedy is the underlying premise of these shows.

Totally. And it's about the attempt to find the perfect balance between the two...a balance that you think that the jury will respect. Being too honorable = losing. Being too greedy/shady/backstabbing usually equals losing too. So it's this weird question of how greedy can I be without crossing the line. Greedy enough for people to respect my game and honorable enough to not hate me so much that you don't vote out of spite. It's super interesting.

[AndreaK1041]

I think if I were a player in these types of games, I would want out people I saw as butt kissers or jury panderers.  I thought the worst thing Derrick did all season was throw the HoH to Frankie with the songs, not because he threw it, but because he said THREE TIMES "Frankie, you want to see your grandfather?". We get it Derrick, you're a wonderful person. Now GTFO of my house.  

 

I say this because I have the inability to fake niceness so I would be at a distinct disadvantage.  Also I would be terrible, like really, really beyond terrible at this game.  Worse than Zach maybe.

[shelley1234]

Except Joey!  She is actively campaigning for herself, and seems to be doing so unironically.  

 

Ugh.  Who is remembers who Joey is enough to vote for her for AFP?  She was on the show for 2 seconds before being swiftly evicted.  

[Katesus7]

Had you made it to the end, whom were you planning to bring with you?

Derrick

 

This makes me laugh, because everyone so completely sure Caleb was going to take Cody, and that Cody was a complete moron for going along with getting him out.  I think Caleb would've won the first part of HOH last night, so this actually turned out to be a good move on Cody's part.  Unless, of course, Caleb is lying.  Which is entirely possible, it IS Caleb.

 

So reading through Jokers from last night, when everyone took turns going into the DR, Cody and Derrick talked about absolutely taking each other, Derrick and Vic talked about absolutely taking each other, but I didn't read anything about Cody and Vic talking about taking each other.  The way I read it, when Derrick was in the DR, Cody just told Victoria all the stuff she didn't know about happening all season.  To me, if he was thinking about taking her, this would've been the perfect time to try to make a deal.  But maybe he worries that she would blab everything to Derrick.  Which, quite frankly, she probably would. 

[willpwr]

Seriously, I forgot about Joey so hadn't even checked her twitter when I made my earlier post. To me the show that used to be the least about backstabbing was TAR but then people started making alliances which make no sense to me and it seems the show started promoting drama and then the stunt casting, it's still one of my favorite shows, though and the only one I would audition for if I ever decided to audition for anything.

 

I don't believe Caleb, if that were true then he shouldn't have been dumb and included Derrick in his jury votes, especially not say that to Derrick. He told Victoria and Derrick he wanted to take Cody and he told Frankie he wanted to take him. 

Edited September 18, 2014 by willpwr

[TimWil]

I hope at least Frankie, during the questioning on Finale Night, says to Victoria if she ends up in F2-"Look, Victoria, you're a big girl so I like to think you can handle what I'm saying. You did practically next to nothing in this game. You were dragged to the end by your hair extensions. Why the hell should I vote for you? Why?"

And I really hope at the very least Caleb listens to his mother when she tells him he made a 500k mistake by not being loyal to Frankie because they could absolutely have made F2. He'll bring up that "Frankie's natural character" bullcrap and I hope Mama shuts it down. He messed up big by not staying loyal to Frankie.

Edited September 18, 2014 by TimWil

[Turtle]

Derrick knows that either Victoria or Cody will take him because if Cody doesn't take him then Cody easily wins $500,000.

 

 

It's funny, because it's true.

 

For Derrick NOT to take advantage of them would be as idiotic as they are for handing their games to them.  I could almost see Derrick saying something like, "Are you sure you want to do that? It's like you're asking for me to win."

 

 

Yep.  I think Derrick's two biggest strengths in this game have been 1) getting a good read on all of these people, and figuring out which ones were easily malleable, and 2) playing to each person's personality, like fluffing up Caleb's ego and being protective of Victoria and even getting rid of the people who might not be so easily manipulated.  It's the same skill set that other great players have had, I think.  I think the big difference in how easy it's seemed for Derrick can be traced back to the stupid dual HOH twist, because everyone was so afraid to make a big move, meaning Derrick faced less obstacles than the Wills or Dans.  Which is a real shame, because I would have loved to see Derrick in action against an actual uprising.  

 

I also don't remember Cody & Derrick making a final 2 deal on day 2. Seems like it was more like week 2, or maybe even three.  So that was weird. 

 

I think all this blather about honor and loyalty is hysterically absurd.

 

 

Agreed.  It drives me crazy on all of these shows.  It's not possible to win BB or Survivor or whatever without ever lying to or betraying or fooling someone, if not many someones.  Because if you told everyone the truth and never made promises you might have to break, you'd be gone pronto.​

 

Off topic, but I need some help - how do you quote with the original poster's name/ time/ etc? showing above the quote  I've tried the multi-quote button, but when I post the reply, it's always just blank.  So instead I copy and paste just the text and add the quote marks.  I'm on a Mac, don't know if that matters.  

[SiobhanJW]

So reading through Jokers from last night, when everyone took turns going into the DR, Cody and Derrick talked about absolutely taking each other, Derrick and Vic talked about absolutely taking each other, but I didn't read anything about Cody and Vic talking about taking each other. The way I read it, when Derrick was in the DR, Cody just told Victoria all the stuff she didn't know about happening all season. To me, if he was thinking about taking her, this would've been the perfect time to try to make a deal. But maybe he worries that she would blab everything to Derrick. Which, quite frankly, she probably would.

Honestly I don't think he needs to make any deals

with her. He knows nothing he says to her will change her mind about taking Derrick if she were to win. And he doesn't think she will win anyway so no need to have the conversation. All he needs to do if he wins the Final HOH is just take her. She doesn't need a heads up. Lol. But honestly I do not think he is going to do that at all. He is loyal as well and I don't think that he would cross Derrick like that. Especially after that speech yesterday about him being loyal and having Derricks back. And we have gotten NO indication in the DR of Cody and him ever cutting Derrick or ever thinking of it. Derrick has no problem saying he's there for himself and his family. But I guess you just never know.

Edited September 18, 2014 by SiobhanJW

[shelley1234]

I still think Derrick would take Cody if given the chance.  I also think it's a good idea.  If Derrick takes Cody then that does one thing....secure another jury vote for him in Victoria.  Now if he blindsided Cody and took Victoria then I think Cody would be angry and would absolutely vote for Victoria just to spite him.  

[Jrae9233]

I don't think greed has anything to do with how the game is played. The goal is to win and the prize is money. In order to win you have to knock people out of the game. That's the whole point, so I don't know how this game can be played without some back stabbing and backing out of promises. Unless they just draw straws to see who goes out next.

Any game where people are eliminated are going to have feelings being hurt because everyone there is there to win for themselves not sit back and let others win because they are loyal, nice, etc. I would say that if you want to play a game and stay loyal, nice, etc play wheel of fortune or something but even then you are hoping the other person gets the answer wrong and that's not very nice to wish failure on another. So every game you play has some not so nice moments.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Jrae9233