S05.E02: The Wrath of the Time Bees

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Alice didn't buy enough tacos. Fen's got 3 bars.

Promo:

Original air date: 1/22/20

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Clip:

 

[Poltargyst]

Fun to see Dean and Julia talking on campus.  I'm realizing I was hoping for more of that, our heroes being on campus.  I think I wanted Hogwart's for adults.  I think I wanted to see them attending classes and having adventures on campus as well as off.

Margo The Destroyer.  Ha!  So true.

Awwww, Alice's and pseudo-Quentin's last conversation.  *sniff* 😣

Awwww, Margot's and Josh's conversation.  *sniff*  😊

Way to play with our feelings, show.  Give us a Quentin who's not Quentin then take him away again.  Maybe Alice can move on now.

 

[GaT]

I hate Alice. I've hated her for a while, but I finally realized that I really hate her. She is just such a selfish little bitch, she never thinks of anybody else, just how she feels.

[Prower]

I know what the writers are trying to sell here but I'm not buying. Quentin's and Elliot's story was not over. I want to see it develop further. They have brought back people from the dead before. They can do it again.

Loved the Margo and Elliot story though, as always.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Prower

[owenthurman]

7 hours ago, Prower said:

I know what the writers are trying to sell here but I'm not buying. Quentin's and Elliot's story was not over. I want to see it develop further. They have brought back people from the dead before. They can do it again.

I think that's where the story is going.

I think Elliot's letter to Quentin will change the history, and Quentin will survive.... I'm guessing he becomes the Dark King, and is responsible for the Takers.

[iMonrey]

I loved the visual of Josh eating a bucket of chicken, in an actual wooden bucket.

I'm having trouble following Kady's story. I know she and Pete were trying to figure out a way to remove the Reeds Marks from the hedge witches, but what exactly were they looking for when they went to that book depository that turned out to be missing? And how did they know to go there? This happened just a week ago and already I've forgotten.

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They have brought back people from the dead before. They can do it again.

Exhibit A: Jane Chatwin, this very episode. Killed off in Season 1, which was the reason given at the time why timeline 39 would be the last timeline. No more Jane, no more re-setting time. Yet here she is, still alive in some alternate plane, and with a myriad collection of time gadgets.

I don't know that I'd bank on a return of Jason Ralph, though. Yeah they bring dead characters back when it's convenient to the plot but killing Quentin was such a turning point for the show I'm not sure they'd be willing to backtrack on that.

The kid playing 12-year old Quentin sure did look like him, though. 

That said, they are certainly paying Jason something to use his image. They showed his photo during Alice's spell and they're still showing him in the previouslies. They're not allowed to do that without his permission. So I gather his departure wasn't altogether hostile. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by iMonrey

[AppleCore]

Heh. Margo said "Timey-wimey". She's really become one of my favorites. I didn't even like her in season one. Now, she's right up there with Penny.

I'm having trouble following the Kady plot line, too.

I didn't like Alice bringing out the Quentin golem, but I did like the explanation of her turning back the to the beginning of the book as a reason for him being so young. I'm glad he was released. The young actor was a good match for the role.

[Terrafamilia]

Isn't there a Marina23 running loose? She'd totally send self-obliviating sleeper agents.

[Prower]

12 hours ago, owenthurman said:

I think that's where the story is going.

I think Elliot's letter to Quentin will change the history, and Quentin will survive.... I'm guessing he becomes the Dark King, and is responsible for the Takers.

I highly doubt that. I'm not spoiled at all, but it doesn't seem like the actor is signed on for this season. Otherwise we probably would have seen him as the flesh golem.

The best we can hope for is him coming back in the final episode of the season and being back in the next. But even that seems improbable.

The writers basically bashed us over the head with "he's gone and not coming back, move on guys" this episode. That is what I meant with what the writers are selling and I'm not buying.

[BonnieD]

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I'm realizing I was hoping for more of that, our heroes being on campus.  I think I wanted Hogwart's for adults.  I think I wanted to see them attending classes and having adventures on campus as well as off.

THIS, this, this, since the very beginning! These people were barely shown as attending classes before all the adventures started. I wanted more time spent on the training and the core group becoming friends. To me, they all splintered into sub groups before I ever got a chance to "feel" them as a real group of friends. So all along my emotional attachment has been like "meh". I just don't feel the connections, particularly between certain members of the group. 

Contrast this with the in-depth time spent on Quentin and Elliot spending a whole long life together in that one single episode. No wonder people are more invested in that relationship than just about any other on the show!

ETA. on completely unrelated note. Same in the witches season of Am. Horror Story. The girls were never shown being taught anything before random stuff started happening. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by BonnieD

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Making magic:

 

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Opening scenes:

 

[festivus]

Margo and Eliot just seem so far apart right now in their thinking and I suppose that's because he hasn't told her the real story with him and Quentin. She's trying to help him but she doesn't have the full story and he's falling back into his old patterns of coping. So I did like the part where he said of course he would run and then sent the letter that brought Josh and Fen forward in time. It makes me sad when Margo and El are on the outs. My absolute favorite moment from last season was when she told lizard dream Eliot that she would save him. I tear up just thinking about it.

I have a theory on that page of Quentin's and how Eliot's letter might tie into it but it's book based so I can't really go into it. 

On 1/23/2020 at 12:46 PM, iMonrey said:

I'm having trouble following Kady's story. I know she and Pete were trying to figure out a way to remove the Reeds Marks from the hedge witches, but what exactly were they looking for when they went to that book depository that turned out to be missing? And how did they know to go there? This happened just a week ago and already I've forgotten.

It was that traveler librarian that told them to go there because the book to help was at that depository.

Somebody really doesn't want Kady finding out what they're up to. I'm guessing Marina is involved. Or Irene. I doubt her story with the fairies is over.

[iMonrey]

I'd be interested if Irene turns up again, but the McAllistairs were sort of a dropped plot point last season. They were the given reason for the enchantment that gave everyone new identities and memory wipes, but that ended right at the start of the season and then the McAllistairs were never mentioned again. 

I got the distinct impression the writers had something else in mind when they wrote the ending for Season 3 then changed their minds over the break which is why the whole identities thing was wrapped up so quickly. 

I expect Zelda to pop up again at some point. It seems strange we haven't seen her yet when she was in every episode last season.

I also want to know where Todd is!

[festivus]

I feel like I remember reading somewhere that Irene's actress wasn't available so if they did have plans for her in season 4 they would have had to change them. I do think they'll bring her back in this season.

[mammaM]

10 minutes ago, festivus said:

I feel like I remember reading somewhere that Irene's actress wasn't available so if they did have plans for her in season 4 they would have had to change them. I do think they'll bring her back in this season.

Jaime Ray Newman got cast in the show "Midnight, Texas" and wasn't available. However, that show was cancelled so I don't know what she's doing now.

[Glory]

On 1/23/2020 at 2:19 AM, GaT said:

I hate Alice. I've hated her for a while, but I finally realized that I really hate her. She is just such a selfish little bitch, she never thinks of anybody else, just how she feels.

EXACTLY! I can't stand her. The fact that I've done a total 180 on Julia and actually appreciate her now is sometimes mind-blowing as I used to hate her character with a passion. But now all I want it for Alice to go away forever. 

I absolutely cannot with Alice. 

On 1/23/2020 at 12:46 PM, iMonrey said:

 

The kid playing 12-year old Quentin sure did look like him, though. 

 

There was one shot where he had a close-lipped smile and the camera was looking down on him and he was looking up and I was just like, "OMG, the casting here was amazing." 

I thought there was some great nuance work with Katy this week. Her and Penny sitting at the island having a conversation and she's barely holding it together and then when Penny reaches out to touch her and she just recoils. It makes me realize just how messed up seeing an alternate version of her dead boyfriend must be for her on the regular. She can hold it together most of the time, but that little bit of physical contact was just too much for her. 

Oh Elliot. I love you so much. Sending Josh and Fen to the future. Stealing all of Jane Chatwin's shit. I hope you can find your happy ending. 

Margo the Destroyer in exile. This is going to be bad-ass. And I cannot wait. 

 

 

[The Companion]

On 1/23/2020 at 2:19 AM, GaT said:

I hate Alice. I've hated her for a while, but I finally realized that I really hate her. She is just such a selfish little bitch, she never thinks of anybody else, just how she feels.

I keep hoping they will turn her into something other than the gf/ex gf of Q and moping about something that happened. I don't hate her because she just exhausts me. The sheer audacity, though, to complain to Julia about how much she misses Q. Please. You were together like 5 minutes.

22 hours ago, festivus said:

Margo and Eliot just seem so far apart right now in their thinking and I suppose that's because he hasn't told her the real story with him and Quentin. She's trying to help him but she doesn't have the full story and he's falling back into his old patterns of coping. So I did like the part where he said of course he would run and then sent the letter that brought Josh and Fen forward in time. It makes me sad when Margo and El are on the outs. My absolute favorite moment from last season was when she told lizard dream Eliot that she would save him. I tear up just thinking about it.

 

I love them when they are on the same page, but I also love the depth Hale Appleman is bringing to Elliot's pain and attempts at denial. I also love that they are supportive of one another, even when they disagree. Honestly, they should take some time to get back in synch. They have both changed. 

I don't know how to feel about Golem Quentin (Quenlem? GQ? Golin?). Initially, he didn't feel like Q but then he did that half smile with Julia and my heart broke. Props to Luca Padovan for getting it a little too right and causing me to cry. Was it emotionally manipulative? Probably. Did it remind us that Quentin was this heart of the show that is now missing? Absolutely. But I think I liked it? 

I was a bit sad Yu-Jin ended up bad. I was intrigued by him and the mystery of the missing memories. Kady gets most improved storyline over the last season and a half. Agree that some of it can be a little unclear, but I really like what they have done with her.

I was so happy to see Josh, which surprised me because I have always been neutral on him. I thought it was a weird directing choice not to have them hug or anything. Still, I liked the reunion there.

Overall, not bad but still hard to watch without bitterness. 

[JTMacc99]

40 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I keep hoping they will turn her into something other than the gf/ex gf of Q and moping about something that happened. I don't hate her because she just exhausts me.

To me, Alice has always just been an emotionally damaged young woman. Didn't fit in with anybody as a teen. Lost her brother. Mom was a raging asshole to her. Unsurprisingly, she hasn't had a whole lot of luck (or experience) forging connections with anybody in her life. Also unsurprisingly, that she would turn to crazy-ass complicated magic solutions to deal with what she's feeling. Tackle emotional problems with intellectual solutions. She's going to attempt to problem-solve rather than just acknowledge that she feels something that has no solution other than deal with it.

And that's why she's exhausting. She is absolutely terrible with feelings. Given her upbringing, duh. She would be an exhausting person in real life. 

This episode did a nice job showing the different ways people process emotions. Eliot is all about feelings. He may not deal well with them, but he sure as hell acknowledges they exist. He lives them, embraces them, wears them around regardless of whether or not they're good for him or bad for him. 

I like that it was Julia who both got to see (and talk to) golem Q and to tell Alice to cut the shit and put him back. That was exactly the right person to help Alice deal with loss. 

[The Companion]

37 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

To me, Alice has always just been an emotionally damaged young woman. Didn't fit in with anybody as a teen. Lost her brother. Mom was a raging asshole to her. Unsurprisingly, she hasn't had a whole lot of luck (or experience) forging connections with anybody in her life. Also unsurprisingly, that she would turn to crazy-ass complicated magic solutions to deal with what she's feeling. Tackle emotional problems with intellectual solutions. She's going to attempt to problem-solve rather than just acknowledge that she feels something that has no solution other than deal with it.

And that's why she's exhausting. She is absolutely terrible with feelings. Given her upbringing, duh. She would be an exhausting person in real life. 

This episode did a nice job showing the different ways people process emotions. Eliot is all about feelings. He may not deal well with them, but he sure as hell acknowledges they exist. He lives them, embraces them, wears them around regardless of whether or not they're good for him or bad for him. 

I like that it was Julia who both got to see (and talk to) golem Q and to tell Alice to cut the shit and put him back. That was exactly the right person to help Alice deal with loss. 

I agree, but i do wish that she would show some progress. It feels like her character has been trapped in this infinite loop of being unable to deal with her feelings and turning to dangerous magic to try and resolve the problem and then feeling guilty about the consequences. Rinse. Repeat. Hopefully she gains some momentum to doing something else. 

I do think the show does a good job of bringing her background into her character. I have previously theorized this is why her clothes were just a little too tight, a little too short, etc. early on. She was dressing conservatively compared to her upbringing, but it wasn't really conservative for anyone else. 

As for Eliot (stupid autocorrect keeps making it Elliot), I think that he had so many emotions behind his feigned apathy. It was beautiful and hard to watch his denial, his feelings of brokenness, his attempts to get back to a place where things couldn't hurt anymore. That conversation with Margo about fixing something that wants to be broken was everything. I am, personally, a bit of an Eliot. I do my cryin' in the shower and rarely let anyone see me broken/destroyed. Fewer martinis, but similar coping mechanisms. Lol.

Agreed on Julia. They have given her so much more to work with lately and I love that. Her interactions with Clay-ntin were so sweet and touching. Especially the part where she assured him that his real friends would be there. Plus, I liked her telling Alice to get it together. I think they could be interesting together if Alice gets pulled into her storyline. I don't think I would have said that a couple of seasons ago.

[JTMacc99]

36 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I agree, but i do wish that she would show some progress. It feels like her character has been trapped in this infinite loop of being unable to deal with her feelings and turning to dangerous magic to try and resolve the problem and then feeling guilty about the consequences. Rinse. Repeat. Hopefully she gains some momentum to doing something else. 

Much like real people, I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't. 

And much like real people, I'm right there with you and really hope she does.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Julia talks to young Quentin:

 

[festivus]

I love the seeing the different ways they each cope with grief which was my hope at the end of last season so I'm excited about this season. Julia feels like she has to do something with what it gave her. @JTMacc99 spot on analysis of Alice. That's why she can be an exhausting character, you feel like she may never change, like she never learns anything. Contrast with Margo who would be very grating as a character if she was still the same as the beginning but she has grown so much.

Oh Eliot, my poor sugar boo. I identify with his grief process the most. Hide and medicate it. I think he just feels helpless. The monster driving his body, doing horrible things, and he couldn't do anything to prevent Quentin's death or Fen's. I liked that scene with his heartfelt apology to her and her saying she wasn't counting on him anyway. Then he does come up with the way to save them and sends the letter to Quentin. I'm excited about his journey this season. It's his time for growth and acceptance, I think. 

3 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

This episode did a nice job showing the different ways people process emotions. Eliot is all about feelings. He may not deal well with them, but he sure as hell acknowledges they exist. He lives them, embraces them, wears them around regardless of whether or not they're good for him or bad for him. 

Yes, I think Eliot could have a high EQ but he needs to learn how to handle it which he did take a step toward doing in the mind palace. I want to see him get to be that braver person he told mind Q he wants to be. When he says he doesn't remember anything from his time in the monster I think that's a lie. 

[Hanahope]

I don't recall seeing the paper that Alice was referring to that Q wrote before.  Did I miss something?

I can totally see Eliot trying to save Q like how Margo saved Josh and Fen.  Will it work?  I suppose not if the writers have definitely killed him off.  or E pulls back at the last second and doesn't mail the letter. 

It really did feel like there was no way to save Josh and Fen, but then telling them to time travel ahead was the 'perfect' solution, i'm almost surprised it worked.  

[Glory]

35 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I don't recall seeing the paper that Alice was referring to that Q wrote before.  Did I miss something?

I don't know if I'm mixing up the books and the show but I swear that was the paper that Quentin grabbed from the Neitherlands at some point. But, you're right, I don't totally remember where it came from. 

[iMonrey]

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I don't recall seeing the paper that Alice was referring to that Q wrote before.  Did I miss something?

It isn't something that had been established in a previous season, if that's what you mean. Alice said it was something she found in Quentin's room after he died, and that it was something he was working on. So it's a mystery that's been introduced just this season.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Kady and Yu-Jin fight

 

[AudienceofOne]

On 1/24/2020 at 5:33 AM, owenthurman said:

I think Elliot's letter to Quentin will change the history, and Quentin will survive.... I'm guessing he becomes the Dark King, and is responsible for the Takers.

Parts of this episode didn't make any sense and I assume that's deliberate (since I'm still giving these writers credit through the white-hot rage of my fury) and near the end it occurred to me that they could be angling for Quentin to be the Dark King - and thereby giving themselves a post-hoc justification for killing him off (he was probably evil, yo!). I really hope not. That would piss me off good.

Nonetheless, parts of this episode really didn't make sense and I hope those discrepancies are deliberate. For example, they are being mind-fucked by the Dark King. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:45 AM, JTMacc99 said:

To me, Alice has always just been an emotionally damaged young woman. Didn't fit in with anybody as a teen. Lost her brother. Mom was a raging asshole to her. Unsurprisingly, she hasn't had a whole lot of luck (or experience) forging connections with anybody in her life. Also unsurprisingly, that she would turn to crazy-ass complicated magic solutions to deal with what she's feeling. Tackle emotional problems with intellectual solutions. She's going to attempt to problem-solve rather than just acknowledge that she feels something that has no solution other than deal with it.

And that's why she's exhausting. She is absolutely terrible with feelings. Given her upbringing, duh. She would be an exhausting person in real life. 

I completely agree but for me I like her far more than Julia. I find Julia self-righteous, entitled and with zero self-awareness. So while Alice can be hard to watch she doesn't make me furious like Julia does. Even in this, she doesn't call Alice selfish because Alice is selfish. She calls Alice selfish because Alice didn't take into account Julia's feelings. On account of her being way more important - both to Quentin and to the universe generally. I legitimately hate Julia as a human being and that has not changed. She is the worst of entitlement made flesh, even in a show that is about privilege and entitlement (and that says something).

On the other hand, at some point Margot became my favourite character. I just love every second of her. And that's because her growth as a person is extraordinary. She doesn't want her Kingdom back because she deserves it. She wants her Kingdom back because at the moment that's the best thing for her Kingdom. Just like she gave up her Kingdom because it was the best thing for her Kingdom. Julia would want her Kingdom back because she deserves it on account of being Julia. 

[katlyn]

On 1/27/2020 at 2:01 PM, festivus said:

Oh Eliot, my poor sugar boo. I identify with his grief process the most. Hide and medicate it. I think he just feels helpless. The monster driving his body, doing horrible things, and he couldn't do anything to prevent Quentin's death or Fen's. I liked that scene with his heartfelt apology to her and her saying she wasn't counting on him anyway. Then he does come up with the way to save them and sends the letter to Quentin. I'm excited about his journey this season. It's his time for growth and acceptance, I think. 

This past weekend I rewatched Season 3's Fillory (mostly) episodes.  This season, I've been bothered by the direction the relationship between Eliot and Fen is being taken.  In S3, there were some powerful, vulnerable and honest moments between these two people who shared a child together.  IMHO, for all the fierce moments of loyalty we're shown between Margo and Eliot, it's the soft vulnerability between Fen and Eliot that pulls out something different in him.  When he's staring up at her hanging there, and her tone switches to such resignation that she was least trusting or expecting him to rescue her, it was heartbreaking.  That she didn't even know if he was alive after his monster possession, but that she knew if he survived how he would anesthetize himself with drugs and booze, and his admittance that she knew him probably too well was really raw.

Given that somehow Fen is able to meet Eliot on an emotional plane and he meets that with a kind of softness, it's just downright maddening to then watch him be so condescending, dismissive and manipulative to her.  She's treated (or written) as some kind of ditz to be rudely dismissed (and in fairness, ALL the "earth humans" minus Julie have seemed to do that to her).  In S3, Eliot confesses to her that he's been a shitty husband and that she deserved so much better.  He's not raised to any kind level with the woman who bore his child, and with whom he shares that kind of loss.  

Processing grief drags with it layers of past grief.  If this season is, in part, Eliot accepting and growing, then I really hope the loss of his child and the less abusive treatment of her mother is a part of his journey.