Katrina Crane: She's a Good Witch!

[starchild215]

Fantique I understand your point about speech cadences and how the way someone speaks a language changes depending on who they're talking to.

 

My mind went right to Idris Elba. You can't imagine my surprise when I heard his real speaking voice after the role he played on "The Wire". It can be done especially by a good actor. Winter isn't really trying here.

[johntfs]

Katia Winter may be a part of the problem, but she's only the smallest part.  She's giving the performance that she's been asked to give.  The problem is that her character is usually paired with similar characters.  The dynamic between Ichabod and Abbie is great mostly because of the way that the performers complement each other.  Ichabod's Old World gallantry, high dungeon speechifying and dry wit go very well with Abbie's modern empowerment, down-to-earth tone and gentle sarcasm.  Plus, they tend to give each other permission to show their different sides.  Ichabod's rant against cell phones can be followed by petulant envy of Abbie's device, while Ichabod's well-taken points about buying water can be followed by Abbie's slightly ridiculous paranoia regarding tap water.  When Ichabod and Katrina are together, their personalities tend to clash due to their very similarity, like two soprano opera singers vying to see who can shatter a glass first.  To a lesser extent the same is true when Katrina is with Abraham or Henry.

 

Aside from the personality problem, there's the issue of power.  Consider the concept of Batman in the world of Scooby-do (this actually happened in a Hanna-Barbara cartoon in the 1970s).  If the Caped Crusader regularly accompanies the Scooby Gang on the adventures, he'll easily figure out and defeat the various people pretending to be monsters and certainly won't bother fleeing from them.  If the Scoobies have to deal with Two-Face or the Joker, they'll likely die in multiple hideous ways.  Excepting very special circumstances these characters should not be working together.

 

If Katrina is able to use her full powers, she'll likely turn Ichabod and Abbie into sidekick helper monkeys.  However, there's only so often that Katrina's "great powers" can be nerfed by special consideration before it becomes ridiculous (and for the Struggle Witch commenters, that time has already come).  As Ichabod's ghostly lost love and mysterious guide, Katrina had a reasonable if limited role in the show's "Scooby Gang."  As a flesh and blood person who should reasonably have access to her powers, Katrina becomes deeply problematic. 

 

So, how do we solve a problem like Katrina (aside from shoring up the leeves and better handling the evacuation and relief efforts)?

 

Probably the best solution is to make her an antagonist.  Allow her and Henry to essentially switch roles in the series.  Assuming that Moloch has been destroyed, Henry's power can be considerably reduced, possibly back down to the mere sin-eater he pretended to be when he was first introduced.  Even the Sword of Methuselah can be waved away with the concept that Moloch owned Henry's soul and since Moloch was destroyed, Henry's soul is his own again, which means that he can't use the Sword without destroying himself.  With his powers reduced and Moloch's creatures from Purgatory eager to seek vengeance on their master's behalf, it's easy to see Henry becoming a reluctant, useful part of the team.

 

So, to Katrina, the struggle witch.  That title, though juvenile, is quite apt for her.  Katrina's life so far has been defined by struggles that achieve at best victories that are extremely costly to her.  She struggled agaisnt her parents' and culture's demands to submit to an arranged marriage to Abraham, and chose Ichabod, which led to Abraham becoming the Horseman of Death.  She struggled to save Ichabod's life only to be cast into Purgatory for more than 200 years.  She struggled to care for her son, only to have him rise from his own living hell despising her and becoming the Horseman of War.  Still, her struggles have not been in vain.  Moloch is gone and his attempt to turn the world into hell on earth has been stopped.

 

Afterward, Katrina can now fully study this new modern world.  She'll find wars, inequalties, horrible abuses, indifference to suffering, intolerance of others.  She'll get hit with the punchline of a great cosmic joke at her expense.  She didn't help stop Moloch from creating a hell of earth.  She simply stopped him from creating a different hell on earth.  The forces of Hell are already loose in the modern world, gleefully running rampant over all and sundry.

 

There's another consideration as well.  Previously, Katrina has been stifled and constrained.  By culture and convention.  By a need for secrecy.  Even by mystical interference.  That's all mostly gone now.  As a woman in the modern USA, she need not bow to the concerns of her culture and family.  Her coven is long dead, the last of them wiped out by her son's golem protector.  Within the modern world magic is disbelieved.  The closest a witch will come to being burned here is paying for overpriced Henna ink at Hot Topic.  Meanwhile, Abraham maintains his twisted devotion to her and has always been more of a follower than a leader.  He'll make an excellent Knight Errant for her cause.  It also probably wouldn't be too difficult to use her magic to obtain control over her distant relative's billion dollar assets, giving her great material resources to do what she needs to do.  Without no more real constraints on her power and a few necessary moral compromises for the greater good, Katrina can find herself in the unique position to make the world a better place.

 

Whether it wants to be or not.

Edited December 7, 2014 by johntfs

[DearEvette]

Well there is one thing the character of Katrina is fantastic at.... cannibalizing the show & the fandom.

 

At the wake of a mid season finale,  conversations should be centered on theories on what will happen.  What are Ichabod and Abbie's next moves?  What does this mean for Moloch?  Who is the next Big Bad now that Moloch seems neutralized? What is the next major piece of the Apocalypse mythology they are going to pull from?

 

Instead most of the conversation I am hearing is about is a rehashing of how much Katrina's presence has contributed to a lacklustre season and more trepidation about how much more havoc her presence will wreak because Goffman keeps promising more of her and the domestic drama that follows her.

 

For a show like this, that is really rather sad.

[HalcyonDays]

Well there is one thing the character of Katrina is fantastic at.... cannibalizing the show & the fandom.

 

At the wake of a mid season finale,  conversations should be centered on theories on what will happen.  What are Ichabod and Abbie's next moves?  What does this mean for Moloch?  Who is the next Big Bad now that Moloch seems neutralized? What is the next major piece of the Apocalypse mythology they are going to pull from?

 

Instead most of the conversation I am hearing is about is a rehashing of how much Katrina's presence has contributed to a lacklustre season and more trepidation about how much more havoc her presence will wreak because Goffman keeps promising more of her and the domestic drama that follows her.

 

For a show like this, that is really rather sad.

 

Beautiful post, DearEvette. Looks like Goffman got what he wanted though - attention and focus and talk on his "beloved" Katrina. *sigh*.

[Yolapukka]

 

 

At the wake of a mid season finale,  conversations should be centered on theories on what will happen.  What are Ichabod and Abbie's next moves?  What does this mean for Moloch?  Who is the next Big Bad now that Moloch seems neutralized? What is the next major piece of the Apocalypse mythology they are going to pull from?

Instead most of the conversation I am hearing is about is a rehashing of how much Katrina's presence has contributed to a lacklustre season and more trepidation about how much more havoc her presence will wreak because Goffman keeps promising more of her and the domestic drama that follows her.

 

 

This is why I am trying to avoid using her name in recent posts, why I no longer care what changes might make the character work and why one of my strongest wishes is that no other characters ever have a conversation about her ever again that doesn't begin and end with "K______ has discovered the mall and she will be there a very long time." "Mm-hmm, well, back to demon slaying." I'm tired of having the things I truly enjoy about the show being overshadowed by what a boring drain she turned out to be. I'm especially tired of how she and her wretched son dominate the show even when they are not physically present..

[RiddleyWalker]

….. Without no more real constraints on her power and a few necessary moral compromises for the greater good, Katrina can find herself in the unique position to make the world a better place.

 

Whether it wants to be or not.

I've edited much of your very thoughtful post, which I really enjoyed, and for that, I apologize. My opinion--as one who thought much like you did before this season--is that it's too late to make Katrina a useful and interesting character. The hatred or at least aversion to her amongst most of us is to the point where her presence on the show, even if written as the most interesting character ever, is such that it would continue to diminish the show. I may be wrong, and perhaps she can be a fantastic villainess (and I'd love to be wrong here) but if I had any input into the show, I'd get rid of her ASAP. 

Edited December 8, 2014 by RiddleyWalker

[Miss Dee]

Johntfs, I didn't want to quote your long and well-written post but I agree with everything you said. I don't hate Katrina and I certainly don't hate Katia Winter (I actually feel sorry for her). I think the role you laid out is absolutely the best way to handle her character. The problem with this show is that in trying to squeeze her in after being apart from the main cast so long, TPTB have (deliberately or inadvertently) given the impression that they intend to make her the leading lady of the show. That would tick of a lot of fans anyway, but then add in the fact that their current leading lady is a WOC? It's not only narratively poor, it looks embarrassingly oblivious towards racial issues at best and downright racist at worst.

I don't expect that TPTB are going to fire the actress, and I'm kinda glad of that as it'd be a shame for her to pay the price of the fact that they didn't know how to write her into the Witness gang. And while I am a strong supporter of the notion that a show runner and writers' room should tell their story and not allow the fans to dictate the storyline (I have never, ever seen that actually work out), I do think they should be capable of recognizing when something is hated and finding a solution.

I agree the solution you laid out is the most sensible thing to do at this point. By becoming an antagonist, it gives the character that complement that provides the edge needed to make interaction with the Witness gang interesting. The actress would get something far meatier than "damsel in distress", and TPTB wouldn't be hamstrung by having to make her weak all the time so that she doesn't overshadow Ichabbie or solve all their problems for them. You already pointed out how her past life could cause her mind to twist and pervert evil into some "greater good".

In fact, in terms of character progression and fixing some major show problems, it makes so much damn sense I really have trouble believing this is not where the storyline is going. But we shall see.

[fantique]

When Ichabod and Katrina are together, their personalities tend to clash due to their very similarity, like two soprano opera singers vying to see who can shatter a glass first.  To a lesser extent the same is true when Katrina is with Abraham or Henry.

 

If Katrina is able to use her full powers, she'll likely turn Ichabod and Abbie into sidekick helper monkeys.  

 

Probably the best solution is to make her an antagonist.  Allow her and Henry to essentially switch roles in the series.  Assuming that Moloch has been destroyed, Henry's power can be considerably reduced, possibly back down to the mere sin-eater he pretended to be when he was first introduced.  Even the Sword of Methuselah can be waved away with the concept that Moloch owned Henry's soul and since Moloch was destroyed, Henry's soul is his own again, which means that he can't use the Sword without destroying himself.  With his powers reduced and Moloch's creatures from Purgatory eager to seek vengeance on their master's behalf, it's easy to see Henry becoming a reluctant, useful part of the team.

First of all, great elaborate and thoughtful post. I must say I sympathise with you because I shared your position up until, let's say Deliverance. I thought well, you know, all Katrina needs is to be part of the group, and once she is out of that house and freed from that useless spy stuff, we will see what the show can truly do with her. The problem here is that what the show wants to do with her is uninteresting to me and to show whatever Goffman was interested in showing apparently, you needed for the story arc to be lame and all the mythology dumbed down or nonexistent. My problem is not with Katrina, it's with the writers. You outline all these things that can make her a compelling character, were they to focus on them, and they chose almost none. The trauma of being in purgatory? Apparently it took Goffman 12+ episodes to think about exploring that. Her joining the team should have been in episode 2 at the latest. Now because of the way she behaved with Abbie previously, I resent her presence because I don't even want Abbie to like her. I remember thinking that after they rescue Abbie from Purgatory, the way these two women could find something in common was that they were both living souls in Purgatory and what was that like? No instead they keep her in that stupid house, show me she is stupid and ineffective (because apparently spying is standing at the corner of the room taking the risk of being caught just by your observed raising their fucking head -followed by, I repeatedly bitched about that so sorry, the fucking letter equivalent of "hey babe! havin' a good time :) xoxo"-).

 

Her magic is one if the most inconsistent things about her. First of all, I don't even know why she has to be a powerful witch. She can just be a witch part of her coven who wanted to use her skills outside of it. If for what I'm going to say next is the reason they felt they can't show her being too powerful, they should not have the script say she is while showing the contrary.

People say that she can't be too powerful because she would upstage the Witnesses. I disagree. Because the Witnesses' power is not about the magic. It's about facing their fears, it's gaining wisdom and saving souls of the innocent that evil could otherwise claim. They were chosen because they have the ability to see evil when it's hidden (that's how Katrina knew Crane was special). I find the best stories are when the heroes are NOT the most powerful players, in fact their mentors are more powerful but there's something special about them that makes it possible to end the enemy. Ex: Harry Potter; Dumbledore and Voldemort were more powerful but Harry's potential for good and ability to stay good after the bad made his soul pure and made it difficult for Voldemort to defeat him. Harry being the Horcrux was what helped him deflect his attacks. The factor that saved Harry was his good heart otherwise that part of Voldemort would have corrupted him and they would have lost.

The witnesses don't need to be magically powerful because their strength and the success of their mission relies on their conviction and dedication to the cause.

 

I see the same potential in the character but it seems Goffman is not interested in making anything happen that would go away from "Katrina is -literally- God's gift to the witnesses". Even her turning evil would feel cheap now simply because the emotional impact with the viewer is likely to be minimal and it would just feel like they did that because they fucked up so bad that it's their only remaining option. I seriously don't understand what's so hard to do about just getting over that stupid marriage counselling session, have her be his wife during down time and the group's token witch and slowly let us get used to her by showing her worth as part of the team. Why the relationship drama? Why the petty back and forth which is the only justification for Abraham's presence instead of Headless?

 

On the point that the Cranes interacting is bound to be caustic and not as smooth as Abbie and Ichabod's, well that's a freaking problem isn't it? They're married, if being together is meant to bring out the worse in each other then why the hell are we getting told she's the love of his life? Is Ichabod supposed to be a moron where his wife is concerned? 

I just want the focus on Katrina to lessen, let me be used to her presence without her forcing her opinions on others. Don't have X,Y and Z go on and on about how she's the bee's knees, since they're showing me she's not and what's hilarious is that's them trying to present her in a favourable light. That's actually telling me there's a problem with their skill as writers. I want the Cranes to be synonym of fighters. Not fucking relationship drama. This show is about the apocalypse. It's about two chosen ones who have to save those they love and the entirety of the human race. Do we really have time for "will they won't they"? Especially when the writers are too thick to have any kind of subtlety and can't hide their obvious "they will" conclusion. I say skip it all together, let them be married and focused on their damn job. Or kill her.

[savinggrace]

IMO the witnesses should not have spouses. As we've seen a spouse would have to be their first priority and would distract them from the task of saving the world. The only solution to the Katrina problem is to kill her off. If they make her evil then we'll have to sit though another plot line of "can she be redeemed?" which is the last thing the show needs.

[fantique]

Oh my god, don't even joke about this. It would be Jenry-gate 2.0... I would just cry and decide to start an entertainment blacklist and proceed to put a Goffman picture on it with IDIOT written on his forehead with a sharpie. 

*Deep breaths* I am so sorry, I know I am being a hater right now and I feel ashamed but it needs to be taken off my chest. I am just beyond pissed about what this man has done with one of my favourite shows that I've re-watched more times than 10 yr old shows that I love. 

 

What kills me is that it shouldn't be the case. Cops have spouses, that doesn't mean that they put them first. Doctors, soldiers, government officials, etc. In fact, for those people sometimes having something to protect and fight for is what makes them better at their job. The only reason why this is a mess is that the show-runner does not have an inventive bone in his body. He also appears to not know how to navigate plotting for a genre show. My guess is they got him for the realistic, "Abbie is a cop and there is actual judicial procedure they need to know about" portion of the show and then things happened leaving him at the helm. Ugh!!!!!!! At least I don't need to write this in an another thread since what they did with Katrina exemplifies every problem I have with their execution.

Edited December 8, 2014 by fantique

[phoenics]

Katia Winter may be a part of the problem, but she's only the smallest part.  She's giving the performance that she's been asked to give.

Actually she's giving the performance she demanded because she was "bored" with her character last season.

The problem is that her character is usually paired with similar characters.

The problem is that she was never supposed to be a fully fleshed out character. Period. She was supposed to die in the pilot - the ONLY reason she was kept on this show is because the showrunners thought (I'm just going to say it) that a black female lead couldn't carry the show with her white costar - and that fans needed a "safety net" against Ichabbie happening.

The dynamic between Ichabod and Abbie is great mostly because of the way that the performers complement each other.  Ichabod's Old World gallantry, high dungeon speechifying and dry wit go very well with Abbie's modern empowerment, down-to-earth tone and gentle sarcasm.  Plus, they tend to give each other permission to show their different sides.  Ichabod's rant against cell phones can be followed by petulant envy of Abbie's device, while Ichabod's well-taken points about buying water can be followed by Abbie's slightly ridiculous paranoia regarding tap water.

This is exactly true - which is why Katrina was NEVER needed in the first place except as a plot device - an exposition fairy. And she could have done that EASILY as a ghost.

Additionally - the dynamic you mentioned above is the entire premise of the show and why it works. I said as much in another post about what makes Ichabod Crane special - and it's the contrast we get of a man out of time and the LAST of his kind (the last human, that is) who has to find his way in this brave new world - and how that new world reacts to him.

The moment they give him a wife to play off of or to have the world react to, the entire premise of the show starts to fall apart. Ichabod looks less special and because we're forced to have Katrina in scenes with him, we don't get the contrast.

Mind you - this problem continues whether Katrina is with Ichabod or interacting with others on the show.

When Ichabod and Katrina are together, their personalities tend to clash due to their very similarity, like two soprano opera singers vying to see who can shatter a glass first.  To a lesser extent the same is true when Katrina is with Abraham or Henry.

It still fails, imo, because having Katrina and Abraham in this world removes all of the specialness of Ichabod. He used to be this charming out of place man who we got to experience through Abbie's eyes. Now, he's just one of 3 out of time folks. And we rarely see him through Abbie's eyes anymore.

Aside from the personality problem, there's the issue of power.  Consider the concept of Batman in the world of Scooby-do (this actually happened in a Hanna-Barbara cartoon in the 1970s).  If the Caped Crusader regularly accompanies the Scooby Gang on the adventures, he'll easily figure out and defeat the various people pretending to be monsters and certainly won't bother fleeing from them.  If the Scoobies have to deal with Two-Face or the Joker, they'll likely die in multiple hideous ways.  Excepting very special circumstances these characters should not be working together.

 

If Katrina is able to use her full powers, she'll likely turn Ichabod and Abbie into sidekick helper monkeys.  However, there's only so often that Katrina's "great powers" can be nerfed by special consideration before it becomes ridiculous (and for the Struggle Witch commenters, that time has already come).  As Ichabod's ghostly lost love and mysterious guide, Katrina had a reasonable if limited role in the show's "Scooby Gang."  As a flesh and blood person who should reasonably have access to her powers, Katrina becomes deeply problematic.

This wasn't an issue for Willow on Buffy.

So, how do we solve a problem like Katrina (aside from shoring up the leeves and better handling the evacuation and relief efforts)?

Kill her off.

Seriously - all of this hand wringing and drama over trying to shoehorn a character into a narrative she wasn't even created to fit in. She was supposed to be killed in the pilot and she wasn't. That was mistake number 1. Then they were going to kill her off in the season finale. They didn't. Mistake #2. Then they shoehorned her into this season, disrupting the balance of the show and literally destroying the show in order to fit her in - TANKING The ratings. Mistake #3.

3 strikes and you're out. No more trying to make this character fit. She will NEVER fit.

And with the way she's tanked the ratings, she doesn't deserve anymore chances to MAKE her fit.

I don't want her evil. I don't want her AT ALL. Kill her off.

Afterward, Katrina can now fully study this new modern world.  She'll find wars, inequalties, horrible abuses, indifference to suffering, intolerance of others.  She'll get hit with the punchline of a great cosmic joke at her expense.  She didn't help stop Moloch from creating a hell of earth.  She simply stopped him from creating a different hell on earth.  The forces of Hell are already loose in the modern world, gleefully running rampant over all and sundry.

This sounds just like what Goffman is planning. And it's going to drive more fans away. This is not the show we signed up for. NOT at all.

I don't want to try to "fix" Katrina. I don't want to SEE anymore of her. Just please kill her off. She never should have been on this show longer than the pilot other than as a dead as a doornail ghost.

[phoenics]

I don't expect that TPTB are going to fire the actress, and I'm kinda glad of that as it'd be a shame for her to pay the price of the fact that they didn't know how to write her into the Witness gang. And while I am a strong supporter of the notion that a show runner and writers' room should tell their story and not allow the fans to dictate the storyline (I have never, ever seen that actually work out), I do think they should be capable of recognizing when something is hated and finding a solution.

Since originally, the writers' "story" had Katrina killed off in the pilot - and then that was changed - then I think we can definitely let KW go on to other projects - I suspect that when they filmed the pilot, she knew it wasn't a full time role.

Especially given that she didn't chemistry test with any of the rest of the cast... and that in order for the rest of the cast to get their roles, they HAD to chemistry test with one another. Why should KW be given special treatment? Especially given the ratings?

[HalcyonDays]

I never liked her on my screen last year - I thought she slowed the pace down and the whole whispering /teary eyed lack of ability to actually speak a word whenever confronted bugged me like hell. But at the same time I thought - yeah, she's shady. Something is strange with her behaviour.

 

The show could've taken that and expanded it in the second season, but no, they brushed it aside. I need to see a long scene of him questioning her on what she has done or didn't do. Even that little "break up" scene in The Akeda was not enough, to be honest. I want an angry confrontation over everything she lied about, not just a few words from Ichabod that don't cover the whole story. The writers I think don't even know why Ichabod (and by extension the audience) should be irritated with her. It's like they took tweets complaining about Katrina and wrote that into the script.

 

I do think having Ichabod be married was a mistake. Maybe him having a torrid affair with Katrina, who was actually married to Abraham would have given us a better reason for Abe's anger and turn to the dark side. The kid's parental line could have been dubious also. I wouldn't even think less of Ichabod, to be honest. I really wouldn't. I think less of him NOW, only because of his behaviour at Katrina's side.

 

The problem is this: Katrina makes Ichabod come off as a selfish and moronic fool. She does the same to Abraham. She sucks the life and fun out of every scene. Her motivations are brushed aside and she looks petty, selfish and self-serving. She is an utterly weak witch. She has been served with every stupid female TV trope that does a disservice to her. She dismisses Abbie and her opinions. There is nothing to like about her at this point. Expect that groovy black dress. Oh, and I like the necklace too. That's it.

[DeLurker]

 

There is nothing to like about her at this point. Expect that groovy black dress. Oh, and I like the necklace too.

I don't like the necklace because it changed BAMF Headless into wuv-sick Abwaham.

 

Johntfs - your post is amazing and very persuasive.  If SH had someone of your caliber helping them draft the storylines, they might morph Katrina into something other than Annoying StruggleWitch.

[savinggrace]

phoenics your (very well written) post made me LOL. I could feel the progressive chorus of frustration building to "KILL THAT STUPID BITCH!!!"

[phoenics]

phoenics your (very well written) post made me LOL. I could feel the progressive chorus of frustration building to "KILL THAT STUPID BITCH!!!"

Haha! That's probably because I was getting progressively frustrated as I wrote, lol!

I just can't with Katrina anymore. Any story lines at this point to try to "save" the character are one story line too many for a character that has lived past its "use by" date.

And I'd just like ONE Katia Winter or Katrina fan to help me understand why Katrina/Katia should be given all of these chances when far better and more interesting characters have been disposed of.

If they really killed off Irving for good - the clarion call to kill Katrina will become DEAFENING - along with a catastrophic drop in ratings.

Edited December 9, 2014 by phoenics

[HalcyonDays]

And I'd just like ONE Katia Winter or Katrina fan to help me understand why Katrina/Katia should be given all of these chances when far better and more interesting characters have been disposed of.

 

You have no idea about these ones. They think that it's cute that Katrina is scared of rats and cannot complete a spell, because she has been through "so much." They actually thought that Ichabod was being "unreasonable" and not "understanding" the stresses that Katrina has gone through. Apparently we don't understand why she lied. Mary Wells brought on her own death for being unreasonably jealous (yeah, cause that root you produced and the hiding of the body and writing a shady letter is forgivable). They think that redeeming her son is good, yet never mention the people Henry has murdered in his reign of terror. They think she is not useless as a witch, because hey! she boosted the powers of weapons that already had power (yes, that's valid), but conveniently ignore the so many other times she is useless.

 

They also ignore the fact that ratings have dropped, believing it is good that Goffman stick to his vision. They believe that the only reason that people are irritated with SH right now is because of shipping. They believe that it's the Ichabbie+romantic shippers that are causing the problem. They don't seem to understand that it's not that we want Ichabbie to get together. We want our beloved characters to not be marginalized, or massacred, or poor tropes be utilized, and we want the mythology to make sense, and to have a purpose. We want the story to progress, not regress. Yet to them, they think we only care about hooking up Abbie with Ichabod.

 

Did I mention the fact that they thought her adversion to the rats was "cute"? You are a fucking witch - this should be a given to embrace the rat. Bloody hell.

[Watermelon]

You know, the whole, "reach into a pot filled with imaginary phobias" is when I decided Katrina was the worst person ever.

1)YOU ARE A WITCH.

2)You now know the pot is not filled with what you think it is.

3)You're so useless the lay person has to stick THEIR hand in, instead.

 

What is even the point of you at that point? Can't deal with rodents or insects, can't finish incantations. WHAT. THE. HELL.

[HalcyonDays]

This made me giggle. On another forum, the pro-Katrina people are saying that they don't believe her useless, since with Katrina around, she helped deal with the Weeping Lady, and found the Succubus' heart and that Ichabod would have used the sword on Moloch and would become souless. This was my response:

 

 

Well, technically....If Katrina wasn't around, then Moloch would never have been born into the real world, and if Moloch was never born into the real world, than the sword wouldn't be needed, and if the sword wasn't needed, than Ichabod would never have lost his soul and Frank Irving wouldn't had died.

 

If Katrina wasn't around, she could not give birth to baby Moloch, and because the baby had to eat, the Succubus was needed, but if there was no baby because there is no Katrina, then you wouldn't need the Succubus to feed the baby, and those people would not have died.

 

And if you go back a little earlier...if Katrina wasn't around, then Henry wouldn't have read her sins regarding Mary, and Mary wouldn't have risen in the first place and killed Caroline. And to go back from that, if Katrina wasn't around, she wouldn't have confronted Mary and "tripped" her and caused her death and hid the body and lied to Ichabod via letter and Mary would never have become the vengeful demon that killed Caroline.

 

If you go back earlier, if Katrina wasn't around, then Abbie and Ichabod wouldn't have to go into Purgatory to rescue her, and get betrayed by her son, and trapping Abbie in purgatory and thus allowing the Witnesses to be separated and this allowing the Horseman of War to break the seal and now enter the earth and thus grow closer to Apocalypse.

 

And if you want to go even sooner, if Katrina wasn't around, Abraham wouldn't have been betrothed to her, and Ichabod wouldn't have been able to betray his trust and they wouldn't have fought and they would have completed their mission and Abraham would never have become the Horseman of Death.

 

If Katrina wasn't around, then Henry would never have been born, and thus abandoned and thus resentful and buried alive eventually to rise bitter and angry, leading to becoming the Horseman of War.

 

And if Katrina wasn't around, then Abraham wouldn't have been the Horseman of Death, and therefore would never have had a grudge, and therefore wouldn't have targeted Ichabod on the battlefield and Ichabod would never would have died (then).

 

However, because Katrina was around, she could save Ichabod's life and preserve him until the 21st century to meet up with Abbie. However, if she wasn't around, NONE of this mess would have happened. Just stating facts.

 

There is more but I can't remember it all right now. I know it's a "what if" scenario, but still....

[DeLurker]

Did they stone you?

[HalcyonDays]

Did they stone you?

 

Not yet, but they will. Hey, I admit to being a total ass, but it was so worth it....so worth it... just to introduce some (of my) reality...What can I say, like with Ichabod, Katrina brings out the worst in me. *grin*

[ChelseaNH]

If Katrina wasn't around, she could not give birth to baby Moloch

 

And they would have just used some other woman.

 

if Katrina wasn't around, she wouldn't have confronted Mary

 

That's less "wasn't around" and more "never existed."

 

this allowing the Horseman of War to break the seal

 

Since Abbie and Ichabod had no idea that Henry was the Horseman of War, he could have broken the seal whenever he wanted, as long as he didn't invite them along.

 

Abraham would never have become the Horseman of Death

 

And someone else would have.  Ditto the Horseman of War.

 

therefore wouldn't have targeted Ichabod on the battlefield

 

Except Ichabod's mission was to find and kill the Horseman of Death, so they would have fought anyway.

 

If things were different, things would be different -- but there would still be Witnesses, Horsemen and an apocalypse to tell stories about.

Edited December 9, 2014 by ChelseaNH

[HalcyonDays]

And they would have just used some other woman.

 

But remember the dead woman's body they found in that lab, all veiny? They tried it already on normal woman and it failed. That's why they needed Katrina - she was a witch therefore the proper "vessel" for Moloch to rise. They actually explained it nicely in the episode.

 

That's less "wasn't around" and more "never existed."

 

Well, that's kinda the point. Katrina's existance alone has caused a lot of issues.

 

Since Abbie and Ichabod had no idea that Henry was the Horseman of War, he could have broken the seal whenever he wanted, as long as he didn't invite them along.

 

If he could've broken the seal at anytime, then why did he wait for the right moment (his parents bound to the trees). He could have broke it long ago. I understood it as Abbie and Ichabod had to be physically separated into different realms for the seal to be broken. That is why they lured Abbie into Purgatory. That realm separation allowed Henry to actually break the seal and become War. If he could have broken it anyway, then what was the point of it all? I think even Henry says that - something like "now that the witnesses are separated, I can bring forth War" or something like that.

 

And someone else would have.  Ditto the Horseman of War.

 

True, but it wouldn't have been Abraham with his own personal agenda, and it wouldn't have been Henry with his own personal agenda and the Crane Family drama would never have existed, with prevents the two Horseman from rising and ushering forth the Apocalypse. Put it this way - if Crane wasn't there, and Abbie was a Witness, we all know she would have offed Death and War without hesitation.

 

Except Ichabod's mission was to find and kill the Horseman of Death, so they would have fought anyway.

 

 

How do we know there would have been a Headless to go after, if Ichabod and Katrina didn't mess with Abraham. Granted, this is the missing mythology and history we are offered, but it is very likely that in the 18th century, there would be no Horseman. Was their one before Abraham? If so, what happened to that person? Could there have been one created a hundred years later? We don't know. What we do know is that the actions of Katrina and Ichabod triggered the chain reaction to get to where we are now.

 

If things were different, things would be different -- but there would still be Witnesses, Horsemen and an apocalypse to tell stories about.

 

Ichabod had the power to Witness, but that would not mean his services would be needed in the 18th century. Abbie had the power to witness, but would not necessarily have been called to service. She saw the four trees because Henry was raised. She would never have saw them if Henry wasn't there, and Henry wouldn't be there if Katrina hadn't abandoned him and he wasn't angsty and was buried by the coven, and they were after her because Katrina saved Ichabod...hence again starting the chain reaction of everything. Her family wouldn't have been as torn apart (this one can be debatable), Jenny wouldn't end up in a mental ward and Abbie wouldn't feel guilty and there would not be a strain on the sisters.

 

I really wish we knew WHY she did what she did - If it was for love, okay, I get it, but at what point did she think she was going to awaken him. One year? Five? She talks about the importance of their mission, but what was it really? This is again another flaw with the writing of her character. I want her to tell Ichabod (and by extension the audience) what she knew about the war, and what Washington told her, etc. It seems like we will get this, with those Abigail Adams flashbacks, so maybe for once they will explain.

[phoenics]

Except Ichabod's mission was to find and kill the Horseman of Death, so they would have fought anyway.

Death - not Abraham. The reason Death targeted Ichabod on the battlefield that day (per Abraham's words) was because of Ichabod's betrayal of Abraham. That's not really in dispute.

Without that grudge Ichabod would have faced "Death" but a lot of the drama brought to our doorstep (over Katrina) wouldn't have existed if she'd just died in the pilot like they originally planned.

I do wonder how Katrina knew Ichabod was the Witness - and what else she might have known. Before the horrible writing this season, I wondered if maybe Katrina had some inside knowledge of some kind of foretelling of Ichabod as a Witness - and perhaps even of Abbie as a Witness. With all of the mayhem and mess that has occurred because Ichabod and Katrina got together (Abraham becoming Death, Jenry becoming War, Mary Wells' death) - I wonder - maybe they WEREN'T supposed to be together.

Maybe - like someone said above - Witnesses shouldn't have spouses.

Their mission is to be a Witness. And that should supersede everything else.

[Yolapukka]

 

I do wonder how Katrina knew Ichabod was the Witness - and what else she might have known. Before the horrible writing this season, I wondered if maybe Katrina had some inside knowledge of some kind of foretelling of Ichabod as a Witness - and perhaps even of Abbie as a Witness. With all of the mayhem and mess that has occurred because Ichabod and Katrina got together (Abraham becoming Death, Jenry becoming War, Mary Wells' death) - I wonder - maybe they WEREN'T supposed to be together.

 

 

I think the show was going somewhere with that, before they decided they wanted to make  the wig-stand viable and sympathetic via the CFD. Too bad it had the opposite effect on many viewers. I think if they'd allowed her to be a darker, more complex character there would not have been quite the same antipathy towards her there is. Of course, I think part of that was they planned to make her a more limited presence too.

[ChelseaNH]

she was a witch therefore the proper "vessel" for Moloch to rise

Then they would have found another witch, or used a different method.

 

then why did he wait for the right moment

Because he's a drama queen who wanted to rub his parents' noses in it.

 

the Crane Family drama would never have existed, with prevents the two Horseman from rising and ushering forth the Apocalypse

It would have prevented those two avatars of the Horsemen from rising, but the Horsemen would still exist and pursue their goal.  I'm sure Abbie would have tried to kill them, although her success cannot be taken for granted.  The kind of weapons she's good with are not the kind of weapons that seem to have much success against Horsemen.

 

How do we know there would have been a Headless to go after

Moloch was unperturbed by the loss of Abraham, saying there had been others before him and would be others since.  It's not like Moloch woke up one morning and said, "I'm going to mess with that Crane fellow, and handily enough, that leads to the apocalypse."  The apocalypse was the goal; messing with Crane was a perk.

 

that would not mean his services would be needed in the 18th century

His services were needed in the 18th century; that's why he was sent to find the Hessian during the war.  It's just that the apocalypse got put on hold for a while -- in part due to Katrina.  Otherwise, things would have come to a head 200 years earlier and Abbie wouldn't have been needed as a Witness.

 

The reason Death targeted Ichabod on the battlefield that day (per Abraham's words) was because of Ichabod's betrayal of Abraham.

Regardless of whether Death targeted Ichabod, Ichabod targeted Death.  That was his assignment.

[phoenics]

I think the show was going somewhere with that, before they decided they wanted to make  the wig-stand viable and sympathetic via the CFD. Too bad it had the opposite effect on many viewers. I think if they'd allowed her to be a darker, more complex character there would not have been quite the same antipathy towards her there is. Of course, I think part of that was they planned to make her a more limited presence too.

They should have stuck with that original plan for her to be a limited presence.

Or they should have done as you were suggesting and made Katrina more complex - and not gone for the "epic love" angle and the Crane Family Drama angle, I think this all could have worked for the show. Unfortunately they played it straight with Katrina and dragged it out - so even if they plan to go the shady/complex route - well - it's too late.

At this point the only option they have now is to make her openly shady right before killing her off.

[phoenics]

Regardless of whether Death targeted Ichabod, Ichabod targeted Death.  That was his assignment.

Maybe this belongs in the Crane thread?

To bring it back to Katrina - if Katrina hadn't "saved" Ichabod then, well then Death would have died on the battlefield - because - as you said, Crane was supposed to meet Death (whoever it was) on the battlefield.

If Katrina had simply let Crane die (not saying this would have been an easy choice), then the Horseman wouldn't have been tied to him and able to rise again with the blood tie to Crane. Then Katrina wouldn't have been kicked out of her coven - and she could have raised Henry - thus preventing him from becoming the Horseman of War...

Basically - I really think that my comment earlier comes into play here - a LOT of the Apocalypse has been fueled by Crane Family Drama and by decisions that Katrina herself made. I really - REALLY do wonder if she and Crane were never meant to be and she knew that - but pushed it anyway?

Even though it's probably true that other Horsemen could have been used - the point is that they weren't. Katrina's choices and the Ichabod+Katrina union led to the ones we have.

It's probably too late to save this character - I honestly believe that she needs to be killed off - but a fantastic send off would be to show that she knew all along that Ichabod+Katrina spelled doom - I actually theorized in my head that this made her the woman spoken of in Revelation (some woman sitting on a dragon or something - now I can't remember)... basically someone who would usher in the Anti-Christ via her actions...

But that's probably a reach, lol. Hey - it sounded good in my head.

[ChelseaNH]

then Death would have died on the battlefield

 

Would he?  Having his head cut off doesn't seem to have killed him so far.  Or it killed him (since he's now allergic to daylight) but didn't stop him from functioning as the Horseman.

[phoenics]

Moving to the Crane thread... trying to be a good little poster since it's nearly always my fault when we go off topic in threads, lol!

Edited December 9, 2014 by phoenics

[DJG1122]

(sung to the tune of "All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth")

 

All I want for Christmas is Katina gone

Katrina gone, Katrina gone.

Gee, if I could only have Katrina gone,

then I could wish you "Merry Christmas".

[jhlipton]

As anyone who's seen Banshee Chapter can attest, Katia Winter is an excellent actress.

I watched as much of Banshee Chapter as I could stand and I must respectfully disagree with this.  At least as far as this film is concerned, I see Katia Winter as a grade Z actress in a grade Z movie.  Nothing in her tone or voice made me want to watch more than a few scenes.

 

In short, exactly like her portrayal of Katrina.

Edited December 23, 2014 by jhlipton

[fantique]

One thing I will never forgive Katrina EVER... I can no longer name Melisandre AKA "the red bitch" (that's a GOT reference BTW) as the only crazy ginger I don't like. Super pissed. She was supposed to be my exception to the rule that gingers are awesome.

[TV Juriste]

Not yet, but they will. Hey, I admit to being a total ass, but it was so worth it....so worth it... just to introduce some (of my) reality...What can I say, like with Ichabod, Katrina brings out the worst in me. *grin*

Which forum, may I ask? IMDB?

[Mars477]

The only one I can think of that comes close is "Life" with Damian Lewis and Sarah Shahi. It wasn't really presented as an epic love thing though. Lewis's character had an ex-wife that he was still in love with and a burgeoning romantic interest in the female lawyer who got him out of jail. Still, neither of those storylines really worked (at least in the eyes of many vocal viewers), but TPTB seemed to really be against the idea of people shipping their leads and pushed the stories despite a distinct lack of chemistry with either woman. Then, in the second season, they glammed Shahi up and gave her a love interest who was also terrible (Donal Logue, who I normally love). The second season was also "fixed" by replacing the female captain with the aforementioned Logue and making more stand alone episodes, which of course made the whole show worse. It was cancelled at the end of the second season. In the finale, Lewis and Shahi's hands briefly touched making the whole thing really bittersweet. They had great chemistry and that hand brush was hotter than any sex scene with their supposed lovers.

So no, I guess I can't think of a single instance where a character like Katrina worked.

So, I've been catching up with the show from Season 1.  Man has it gone off the rails.  Hence the necropost.

 

I just wanted to point out that the very first episode of Life has Charlie (Lewis) haul Reese (Shahi) into a shower and strip her (down to a white tank top) while she pleads in gasps for him to move faster.  Yeah.

 

(It actually makes sense in context.  There are drugs involved.)

 

So it was pretty clear from the outset that Ravich and company still had something planned for the two of them couple-wise down the line.  They just never got around to it because the show was canceled to make room for Jay Leno.  The ex-wife and the lawyer both are resolved and disappear from the show.

[Yolapukka]

I am still open to not despising the former Miss Van Tassel for breathing, I think if the writing was to opt for quality over quantity I might be more inclined to find her presence acceptable. They need to give more thought to defining her character and less to contriving reasons to put her in more scenes. If not shady, she at least has a very different set of motivations than the witnesses. Her actions do not reveal someone who is solidly behind team witness, even if her words assert that position. There is very little there, there when it comes to the wig-stand and what little character she has is woefully inconsistent, there is very little about her that adds up to credibility or really anything at all.

[DeLurker]

I think they modeled Katrina's witchy powers after Aunt Clara on Bewitched.

[Actionmage]

There's another consideration as well.  Previously, Katrina has been stifled and constrained.  By culture and convention.  By a need for secrecy.  Even by mystical interference.  That's all mostly gone now.  As a woman in the modern USA, she need not bow to the concerns of her culture and family.  Her coven is long dead, the last of them wiped out by her son's golem protector.  Within the modern world magic is disbelieved.  The closest a witch will come to being burned here is paying for overpriced Henna ink at Hot Topic.  Meanwhile, Abraham maintains his twisted devotion to her and has always been more of a follower than a leader.  He'll make an excellent Knight Errant for her cause.  It also probably wouldn't be too difficult to use her magic to obtain control over her distant relative's billion dollar assets, giving her great material resources to do what she needs to do.  Without no more real constraints on her power and a few necessary moral compromises for the greater good, Katrina can find herself in the unique position to make the world a better place.

 

Whether it wants to be or not.

 

(italics mine; words by johntfs)

 

IA with johntfs and yuggapukka, that Katrina isn't entirely unsalvageable. Yes, a great portion of folks do think/feel strongly that she is, but it's the writing that is hurting Katrina's potential.

 

Where I sort of differ from john, if I may call you that, is that she doesn't have to go "bad". What Katrina could do is just truly want to aid the world, now that she's truly free on so many levels. But first? She's going to indulge herself. She's not evil, but she thinks she's overdue to look after herself. Ichabod's not too keen on her right now- with reason. Abbie seems to have turned away from being interested in her to outright distrust- not without some reasonable thinking, even Katrina must know how she comes across.

 

Yet, now that Henry is not there and Abraham can be moderated, she is a very pinstripe suit-gray. She has no problems with helping the Witnesses, just don't call her cell when she's at the day spa. Stop Abraham from rampaging? Fine; Abe's gonna not enjoy disrupting her time at the boutique where she was trying on this fabulous pair of boots (price tag still attached), so don't bleed on them. If the problem of the week is like a Sandman or  the chupacabra or whathaveyou, she'll blow them off. They handled menaces like that fine without her help. A put-out Katrina helping the Witnesses defeat the bigger bads, like Orion, would keep her power and involvement scaled and play a bit into how she is perceived-- through the on-screen  acting and dialogue.

 

Maybe Ichabod can't deal with Katrina being hedonistic and they are separated- her in a fabulous loft and Team Witness back in Corbin's cabin. (Katrina is selfish, but I don't think that if she decides to loosen up her scruples some, that she'd choose a rustic cabin over a modern house of some sort.)

 

As yaggapukka stated, Katrina should have different motivations from Abbie and Ichabod.  Just like Hawley does and just like PoorDeadAndy and Henry and Orion and MIA Captain Reyes. Let her be Katrina, not just "the witch that married Ichabod" and "the ex-fiancée of The Horseman of Death" and "the mother of the Horseman of War".

[Yolapukka]

 

IA with johntfs and yuggapukka, that Katrina isn't entirely unsalvageable. Yes, a great portion of folks do think/feel strongly that she is, but it's the writing that is hurting Katrina's potential.

 

Honestly, it's a fine line for me and I often swerve onto the side of getting rid of her entirely. She's not a lead, is barely tolerable as a peripheral character and yet there has been too much time spent on accommodating her presence. The writers seem to think that having other characters make unsupportable pronouncements about her is enough to establish her character, rather than letting it be reflected in her actions. I also think, regardless of shipping, that making her Ichabod's wife was a huge error, made worse by the fact that both KW and TM have much better chemistry with damn near anyone else. Maybe that's deliberate, but I've come to be skeptical about what it means for the long term. I don't see an easy fix for that if she remains. She's a mess and a disruption, maybe the audience and the show would all be better off if the show cut their losses and wrote her out. They've had plenty of time to write something workable for her and yet it hasn't happened. I do know that whether they have her go dark or firmly stress her allegiance to the side of good that  her presence needs to be diminished. She's definitely an example of less is more. 

[johntfs]

I'm going to start complaining about Katrina as well, but since everyone else has already covered her actual problems in every way possible, I'm going with fictional complaints.

 

I haven't wanted to talk about it for now, because complaining about women's physical looks can be misogynist.  However, I'm really starting to get distracted by the second head that Katia Winter is growing.  When it was just eyes on her shoulder, that was one thing, but it's the size of a baseball now and it's really hard to ignore, especially when it tries to talk.  That squeaky wordless tone is just... kind of creepy.

[chrisvee]

If tonight's episode didn't prove that the character and the actress are killing this show, nothing will.

[TV Juriste]

She sucks the life out of scenes.

 

I'm supposed to write a recap of the episode for my site, but I got completely distracted during the A plot, involving the painting. I lost track of the whole thing. I'll have to watch it again to recap it. But, I'm dreading rewatching . . . Unbelievable that I'm reluctant to re-watch my formerly favorite network show. I'll watch tomorrow . . . Cleansing my palate w/ South Park and Daily Show.

Edited January 20, 2015 by TV Juriste

[DeLurker]

 

I'll watch tomorrow . . . Cleansing my palate w/ South Park and Daily Show.

That does sound like a good idea.  Along with drinking - lots and lots of drinking.

 

Perhaps a game of Which is Worse?

Katrina or Root Canal by Dr. Marquis De Sade?

[HalcyonDays]

She sucks the life out of scenes.

 

I'm supposed to write a recap of the episode for my site, but I got completely distracted during the A plot, involving the painting. I lost track of the whole thing. I'll have to watch it again to recap it. But, I'm dreading rewatching . . . Unbelievable that I'm reluctant to re-watch my formerly favorite network show. I'll watch tomorrow . . . Cleansing my palate w/ South Park and Daily Show.

 

I feel bad for you, TV Juriste, having to rewatch the episode for the recap *grin*. Make sure to include the blatent LIE about Katrina knowing she was preggers AND the fact that her and Ichabod have zero chemistry or any modicum of passion at all. Ichabod has more passion ranting about modern day injustices than his own bloody wife. You can quote me on that!!

 

Hee. The South Park made me laugh. The Daily Show I love. Good choices.

[DeLurker]

She sucks the life out of scenes.

 

I'm supposed to write a recap of the episode for my site, but I got completely distracted during the A plot, involving the painting. I lost track of the whole thing. I'll have to watch it again to recap it. But, I'm dreading rewatching . . . Unbelievable that I'm reluctant to re-watch my formerly favorite network show. I'll watch tomorrow . . . Cleansing my palate w/ South Park and Daily Show.

Hmmm...and it still is not up.  I feel your pain.  I would suggest focusing on the B plot, which should have been the A plot anyway.  And then summarize the A plot as a compelling MotW who gets taken out with a bunch of hand waving.  And show a picture of Katrina in her fine dress wear and her décolletage because that really was the point.

[Yolapukka]

As much as I'd like to believe they gave it that much thought I think it's more likely they just wanted to show off more skin.  That's another thing that bothered me.  Seeing Crane dressed up and talking about date night at a historical event--I thought that finally Katrina would be in an old fashion dress that she belongs in instead of that stupid corset.  And when she appeared in the slip-dress...that's when I started fast-forwarding.

 

The costuming is really off for this character. It just underlines how little they try to incorporate her origins into her persona other than having her speaking with a trace more formality than modern Americans. I think if they tried to replicate what a woman of her time might put together in order to feel comfortable in modern times, they would have to abandon jamming her into skin-tight revealing outfits, not what they want when the character's main point seems to be boobaliscious, heavily painted eye-candy. Instead she'd be wearing maxie dresses, wraps, tailored outfits, plain blouses, full skirts etc. She would look elegant. High heels are problematic too, Katia is unusually tall for a woman of Katrina's time and sticking her in shoes that add to her height just adds to the impression that she is a modern woman, not someone out of time at all. She never really registers much more than mild surprise at the conventions of the modern day, so unlike Ichabod, she seems to require little in the way of adjusting to the world. The main grounds I have for seeing her as a woman from long ago, is the show tells me she is.

Edited January 21, 2015 by yuggapukka

[TV Juriste]

Hmmm...and it still is not up.  I feel your pain.  I would suggest focusing on the B plot, which should have been the A plot anyway.  And then summarize the A plot as a compelling MotW who gets taken out with a bunch of hand waving.  And show a picture of Katrina in her fine dress wear and her décolletage because that really was the point.

I'm having mac problems. Took it in today for diagnosis; taking my little buddy back to be fixed tomorrow. I can't type the letter "e." Apparently, I won't get it back until Monday or Tuesday! FRUSTRATING!

 

Hmph, I'd blame the witch, but . . . you know she could never accomplish a keyboard jamming spell.  

[evilmindatwork]

The problem is that she was never supposed to be a fully fleshed out character. Period. She was supposed to die in the pilot - the ONLY reason she was kept on this show is because the showrunners thought (I'm just going to say it) that a black female lead couldn't carry the show with her white costar - and that fans needed a "safety net" against Ichabbie happening.

 

They totally ignored what both the critics and fans loved about Sleepy Hollow in the first season. The chemistry between NB and TM. The fact that many loved that NB, a talented woman of color, was the lead in a genre show. 

 

I am glad that the ratings dropped. I am glad their racism bit them in the ass. I am not saying that they're card carrying racists, I am sure they're perfectly nice progressive people. But they're the type of people who patronizingly think that OTHERS are so racist that a black female lead won't be able to carry a show (proved wrong, NB carried the show last season).

 

As soon as they tried to make the pretty, blonde lady the lead all the fans left. They suck. They suck as writers and probably as human beings. 

[Criminey]

My thoughts on SH have been expressed by most people on this site and myself in other threads. 

 

I'm neither Ichabbie nor Ickatrina when it comes to romance and future relationships. But I love the Ichabod/Abbie partnership and if anything else comes out of it, I will like that too.

But I do think KW has been ill-served by the writers, showrunners and directors of this show.  IMO,  wide eyes and then even wider wide eyes is not a good acting technique especially when surrounded by other actors whose body language, gestures and facial expressions added layers to their characterizations.

The scripts gave her very little to do but make statements which was probably okay while she was in Purgatory.  Giving her more screen time should have resulted in more direction than -- okay here's your line. Action!  There was some action in the last episode; but it was awkward.   That’s all in how she was directed.

I can't imagine what's been going on BTS; but like others, I’d really like to know!

[DeLurker]

My thoughts on SH have been expressed by most people on this site and myself in other threads. 

 

I'm neither Ichabbie nor Ickatrina when it comes to romance and future relationships. But I love the Ichabod/Abbie partnership and if anything else comes out of it, I will like that too.

But I do think KW has been ill-served by the writers, showrunners and directors of this show.  IMO,  wide eyes and then even wider wide eyes is not a good acting technique especially when surrounded by other actors whose body language, gestures and facial expressions added layers to their characterizations.

The scripts gave her very little to do but make statements which was probably okay while she was in Purgatory.  Giving her more screen time should have resulted in more direction than -- okay here's your line. Action!  There was some action in the last episode; but it was awkward.   That’s all in how she was directed.

I can't imagine what's been going on BTS; but like others, I’d really like to know!

I agree that KW has probably been caught up in the madness around the show and a lot of the Katrina distaste goes back to the writing; however, I am not inclined to attribute all the acting choices to the direction.  I have a hard time to believe they direct her to restrain almost all emotion, especially after there's been months of criticism about how limited she is.  AFAIK, there's usually a collaboration between the actor and the director in most things, but often the starting point comes from the actor's understanding of the character.  The director refines that projection to meet the needs of the scene or story.  In KW's case, I'm guessing she is not bringing a whole lot for them to refine.  On top of that, she currently works on a show where her being pretty is deemed to be a sufficient contribution to any scene she is in.