Criminey January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 On top of that, she currently works on a show where her being pretty is deemed to be a sufficient contribution to any scene she is in. Yes! That’s the missing part of my critique. But to me that still points to direction. The fact that they (show runners, directors, etc) did not demand more from her than the Pretty did the actress a great disservice. And most of all ruined the show. Link to comment
pcta January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 And I ask is the truly creepy whisper voice an acting or directorial choice? I am inclined to believe acting. 2 Link to comment
phoenics January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I agree that KW has probably been caught up in the madness around the show and a lot of the Katrina distaste goes back to the writing; however, I am not inclined to attribute all the acting choices to the direction. I have a hard time to believe they direct her to restrain almost all emotion, especially after there's been months of criticism about how limited she is. AFAIK, there's usually a collaboration between the actor and the director in most things, but often the starting point comes from the actor's understanding of the character. The director refines that projection to meet the needs of the scene or story. In KW's case, I'm guessing she is not bringing a whole lot for them to refine. On top of that, she currently works on a show where her being pretty is deemed to be a sufficient contribution to any scene she is in. I think KW's poor acting skills are limiting what they can do with her on the show and I think the direction is lowering itself to her skills, not the other way around. 1 Link to comment
Yolapukka January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 (edited) I flip-flop on whether this character can be salvaged. The writing is bad, the conception is weak, the actress is at best, ill-suited to to the role and after watching Michelle Trachtenberg display similarly, mannered, wooden acting, I think there may be an issue with the direction KW is receiving on some level. I do think it's quite possible that she has received instructions on how the character is to be portrayed that have undermined her ability to bring the part to life. However what is left, even if one of those factors improves, is something that isn't working at all well on several levels. Further, she's not a character that is necessary to the original concept of this particular TV show. She was created to have a limited run and it shows. The writers keep taking the lazy route of telling instead of showing for her and can't seem to remember what they have written. I find it an incredibly empty character. Edited January 24, 2015 by yuggapukka 1 Link to comment
cynic January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 (edited) I think KW's poor acting skills are limiting what they can do with her on the show and I think the direction is lowering itself to her skills, not the other way around. I tend to agree with this. I could write off certain emotional responses or the fact that she comes across as shady as directorial choices, but her lack of acting skills goes far beyond that. I remember being struck in a first season flashback by how she acted in an entire scene without moving her upper body at all. It was incredibly unnatural. The scene in the last episode when she ran in, took cover for a moment, and then helped lower the body using the rope was just laughably bad and all that really required was some pantomime. Edited January 24, 2015 by cynic Link to comment
phoenics January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 Agree. Maybe they have to rein everyone else in when they're around her, too...lowest common denominator. She definitely dragged Tom Mison down into the boring depths with her - the only spark of life he showed the whole episode was when Nicole Beharie entered the scene... 1 Link to comment
phoenics February 9, 2015 Share February 9, 2015 Oh, that's very good @phoenics! Yep she fails the test… (Thanks for that link!) Continuing from the "What do you think will happen" thread... This test solidified for me one of the most egregious problems with this character/actress. You cannot tell WHAT on earth she's thinking on the inside. There is a thread on tumblr right now where they've taken various screenshots of KW emoting as Katrina, but they all look primarily the same... you cannot really tell from looking what she's trying to say... you can't tell what she's thinking.... she's CONSTANTLY trying to "smell the fart" so she always seems to look shady even when that's not the point. When she was with Irving and declared him "clean" she LOOKED shady, but she's looked that way before (remember that scene with Orion?) - there is NO ability to tell with her what is going through her mind. It's so frustrating. But take NB or TM or LG or OJ. You can TELL what they are thinking - unless the scene calls for them to be impassive. Abbie's expressions are priceless... Ichabod's too... and I just love Jenny when she gets that look on her face... and of course OJ is the king of trolling expressions on the show. The show cast KW first and I think that was a huge mistake - although maybe I should thank the show for that - if they'd cast a better actress they might have succeeded in shoving NB off the canvas. That still angers me. That they tried. 4 Link to comment
Yolapukka February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) I don't think Katia is particularly adroit in her acting choices. However the sheer awfulness of the final scene that featured her in What Lies Beneath also underlined how some of the issue with the character she plays is down to the production's vision for Katrina. Yes it absolutely is her doing that she reacted with all that silent movie eye-bugging and exagerrated gasping but I'm giving side-eye to the notion that this was the best take. I think it was the take that gave them the best version of the reductive vision they have had for this character. They've given us a woman who is constantly being spirited away against her wishes, menaced in ways that have sexual inferences, who is ever in danger of swooning, has little agency beyond what she is allowed by men and can't exercise her abilities without embracing profound corruption. Frankly the whole thing is really creepy. Edited February 14, 2015 by yuggapukka 5 Link to comment
DeLurker February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Ignoring all aspects of KW's acting, Katrina fails as a character to generate any level of interest. Don't know all the literary terms, but there's gaps and inconsistency with what they tell about her. In the hands of capable writers this could have been a deliberate choice to create ambiguity, but that's not the case here. It's just bad half assed writing which ends up being creepy as yuggapukka notes. KW's acting did nothing to elevate bad material, rather it just made it more apparent. I can't think of an actress that could have salvaged the character as written, although there are a lot who could have given us a nuanced or layered performance. 3 Link to comment
phoenics February 15, 2015 Share February 15, 2015 But I think the way they wrote the character was done on purpose. They wrote to the level of the actress they had. Barely. Link to comment
phoenics February 15, 2015 Share February 15, 2015 Hey, these other shows are further in and STILL don't realize it. One is four seasons in and is upping its snowflake quotient. We should consider ourselves lucky they figured it out by S2. Well - considering Katia's convo with someone that we'll hear about on Monday where she's excited about Katrina's future (apparently in S3), have they figured it out... really? 1 Link to comment
phoenics February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 Good point SweetTooth. My hope is that they have changed direction (permanently), but as KW might be staying onboard, we're not out of the woods. Because that just means Goffman would just add more of her when he thinks the heat is off. That's why some of us preferred her being killed off rather than turned evil. Link to comment
phoenics February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 But if she's killed off, then we have to have episode upon episode of Crane WALLOWING and wailing and blaming himself for her death. As it is, I'm telling you, the words "We must save Katrina" will be uttered at least once, so it's only a little bit better. If Katrina does go darkside, I hope she stays there. Because I'm not looking forward to "The Rehabilitation of Katrina Crane" clogging up my Sleepy Hollow. This is why I want her killed off... and if she goes dark side before begin killed off, then I think we'll get more of Crane being angry at her and wondering who the hell he married rather than blaming himself. Ta daaaaa!! I feel rather pleased with myself to come up with that, btw, lol. 3 Link to comment
cynic February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 But if she's killed off, then we have to have episode upon episode of Crane WALLOWING and wailing and blaming himself for her death. As it is, I'm telling you, the words "We must save Katrina" will be uttered at least once, so it's only a little bit better. If Katrina does go darkside, I hope she stays there. Because I'm not looking forward to "The Rehabilitation of Katrina Crane" clogging up my Sleepy Hollow. I had been fervently hoping that one day Katrina would be revealed as having been evil all along and this is one of the reasons why. Link to comment
DeLurker February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 But didn't they show both Jenny and Abbie having some witchy powers? Abbie is the Witness, but Jenny could be the new witch in residence...please please please! Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 Either way, we're going to have Crane self-flagellation. I just think it will be worse if she dies. And let's face it, if a *cough* powerful *cough* witch like Katrina dies, how long do you think it would be before she was resurrected? They have the witch outlet, and I doubt they'd let go of that. Well, considering we've had Crane leaving his wife in the cabin while he goes gets drinks with Abbie, playing video games while the wifey is being "held" by Headless and Henry, and two separate individuals have commented that they didn't know Crane had a wife because he never mentioned her, I'm not worried. If she's killed off at the end of the season, and there is a season 2, he can do his mourning "during the break" then when season 3 resumes,have some comment that indicates that he's found closure and accepted her fate and that he can now move on. Done. But didn't they show both Jenny and Abbie having some witchy powers? Abbie is the Witness, but Jenny could be the new witch in residence...please please please! That was always the funnt thing - both Jenny (in Mama) and Abbie (in two episodes) did magic. So why do we need Katrina? We don't. And I would LOVE it if Jenny has some latent witchy powers. Yes! Abbie too, but she already is a Witness, so Jenny's can be developed. 2 Link to comment
DeLurker February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 (edited) Maybe Katrina can use her powerful magic to take over Jenny's body and then LG can be Katrina. And KW can be free to go work on her friend's movie or whatnot. An Evil Jenny joining forces with an Evil Frank would make me clap my hands in childish glee. Edited February 16, 2015 by DeLurker Link to comment
Yolapukka February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 I want her to go completely evil before they get rid of her. She's more interesting and significant as an idea than actual character. End the life of the character permanently and end all talk of her wondrous virtues. She is horrible. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 Halcyon those are wonderful examples, if we literally didn't have an acronym for the Cranes and their mess of a relationship. The reason Crane was able to go off and leave Katrina, is because he feels his "powerful" witch wife can take care of herself/knows what she's doing. If this show does in the future what it's done in the past, there's zero chance we'd get a Crane who healed up during the break and way more of a chance we'd get a hand-wringing, teeth-gnashing Crane, bemoaning his beloved's fate and blaming himself for what happened. Otherwise the show might feel that all of this "beloved" talk was for nothing, if Crane just dusts himself off and goes on. And like I said, if they resurrected Frank, they will resurrect Katrina. So while I'd rejoice her death, I would bet cash money she'd only miss a few episodes before coming back. Shhh....Don't say that....!!!! If the writers come here and read this, you may give them ideas... I know what you are saying, re: CFD, but that was part of the problem. One week, Ichabod is all good and barely mentions the wife, or seems barely concerned. Next week, he's an idiot fool disrupting the misson and coming off as someone whose blood flow migrated to the wrong brain. I can see the show pulling a "Morales." i.e. he's gone, no one knows what happened to him (in this case, we would know), and Abbie doesn't waste her time mourning for him. Which is why I could see a simple comment or discussion and that's it. In the Media thread, there is a link to an EW article with a poll. The poll asks what you prefer. Good Katrina, Evil Katrina, or NO Katrina. Currently, 89% of the people want NO KATRINA (which one of you has been multi-voting!! Ha!) Point being - if the show gets a season 3 and wants to get decent ratings, there is only one answer. NO KATRINA. 3 Link to comment
phoenics February 16, 2015 Share February 16, 2015 Now it's at 90.7% No Katrina. Heh. I only voted once! 4 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 There have been some fabulous tumblr posts by fans out there regarding Katrina. Since it's not professional media and focuses on solely on her, I'll throw them in there. They are well-written, analytical and quite insightful. Thought I'd share those links. Katrina Crane is the Ultimate Soccer Mom Katrina = Sociopath/Psychopath 3 Link to comment
DeLurker February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Both of those are really interesting. I think the viewing audience has spent more time trying to make sense of Katrina and the storylines than the writers ever did. Sad too, because she could have been interesting. 2 Link to comment
evilmindatwork February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I understand that, based on interviews and her IMDB profile, Katia Winter is an in demand actress. Wasn't she just in a movie with Christian Bale? Is it just because she's pretty? Because she's so stiff and one note in Sleepy Hollow. I am in no way a performer but I imagine if I was forced to perform on camera, I would make the choices she makes (this is not a good thing because I HATE being the center of attention). Is it just because she's so pretty? I still don't get it because there are many pretty women in Hollywood. Maybe she's better in her native Swedish... 1 Link to comment
DeLurker February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 There's been some prior discussion of her work in this thread, but I think only a couple of posters had seen her work previously. The Christian Bale thing was unscripted from what I read about it so more of a performance piece I think. I don't know how prominent a role KW had in it because the cast includes some pretty big names. Link to comment
Captain Asshat February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) I never minded Katrina that much, as long as I kept the original "Legend of Sleepy Hollow" in mind. In the short story, Katrina does wind up with Abraham after she rebuffs Ichabod. It seemed as though, in S2, she was drifting from Ichabod and toward Abraham/Headless, and that was a bit of a parallel to the original. This does not equate with my liking of the character in the show, however. It simply means my assumption was the the overall arch of the show was sticking with the central plot points of the short story, so it kind of made sense. It was even believable that 200 years in Purgatory would leave her witchy powers weakened, but I think they dragged out that weakness and ineffectiveness too long. Every time Crane would say, "We need Katrina," my eyes would roll harder than Abbie's. Basically, I believe they had a character with great potential. Sadly, the choice of actress and the way the character was written/developed just killed it. What I'm hoping for, with this timeline you know will be altered, is a nod to the original: Katrina will move away from Ichabod and toward Abraham/Headless. Without being in Purgatory, she knows exactly who he is, what he is, and why he is. She can talk to him and convince him to work with her. Later, she won't preserve (or will attempt not to preserve) Ichabod after the fight with Headless. I'm going to guess Abbie, Grace, or the Gorgon achieve that somehow. Either way, we'll have Katrina dead, or tucked away with Headless, or just written and acted better. Seriously, if we're saddled with her in S3, I'll overlook past transgressions as long as she's acted and written better. Edited February 18, 2015 by Captain Asshat Link to comment
DeLurker February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 It was even believable that 200 years in Purgatory would leave her witchy powers weakened, but I think they dragged out that weakness and ineffectiveness too long. Every time Crane would say, "We need Katrina," my eyes would roll harder than Abbie's. Basically, I believe they had a character with great potential. Sadly, the choice of actress and the way the character was written/developed just killed it. That is some serious eye rollin'! If they get a S3, best to see an optometrist just in case. 1 Link to comment
Captain Asshat February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 That is some serious eye rollin'! If they get a S3, best to see an optometrist just in case. Considering some of the other shows I watch, these eyes get a pretty decent "rollin'" workout. I think they'll be OK, but I'll Eye Masters on speed dial. ;) 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I never minded Katrina that much, as long as I kept the original "Legend of Sleepy Hollow" in mind. One of my personal favourite Abbie Mills Eye Roll moments were schooling a few Ichatrina lovers over the original story. They first stated that "OMG, Ichatrina is canon because it's in the original story!!" and they were gushing about the love story and I was like...."uh...you do know that Katrina Van Tassel married Brom Bones, right? You DO know that Ichabod was only interested in Katrina because of her father's farm and family wealth, right?" The fact that Katrina was a young "bloomin' lass" was of course the icing on the cake for Book!Ichabod, but they really thought that the actual Washington Irving story featured a true love scenario. And I'm like...Uh, no. Crane wanted her for her money and family farm. Katrina flirted with Ichabod but only to make Brom jealous. I just thought it amusing. 4 Link to comment
Dobian February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) I've been comparing Katrina to Juliette from Grimm for a long time. Both actresses are limited, the writing for both characters turned them into wet blankets. Then the writers on Grimm did something surprising, they came up with a story arc that actually made Juliette interesting and changed her character. Now I am waiting for the same thing to happen with Katrina, but I won't hold my breath (which would make me breathless like Katrina). I look forward to Katrina breathlessly darting around colonial Sleepy Hollow in her quest to change history so Henry can still be alive in 2015 and they can re-activate their coven, for which she waits with breathless anticipation. Plus she can have a son for awhile who doesn't look like a 65 year old John Noble. But if she's killed off, then we have to have episode upon episode of Crane WALLOWING and wailing and blaming himself for her death. What will make it perfect is Katrina whispering breathlessly to Ichabod from beyond the grave. Edited February 18, 2015 by Dobian Link to comment
phoenics February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Please God no, lol. Let's either kill her off or leave her back there, never to be heard from again until we look at her tombstone which says "Burned at the Stake" and KNOW it's for real this time. 1 Link to comment
evilmindatwork February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 I've been comparing Katrina to Juliette from Grimm for a long time. Both actresses are limited, the writing for both characters turned them into wet blankets. Then the writers on Grimm did something surprising, they came up with a story arc that actually made Juliette interesting and changed her character. Honestly though, unlike Katrina and Sleepy Hollow I think the viewers of Grimm were equally divided between those who enjoyed Juliette and those who just didn't (I think both camps had valid reasons for their like or dislike). I was one who liked Juliette from the beginning. Juliette always had redeeming characteristics such as loyalty, transparency, and independence but many viewers just didn't feel was well integrated into the Grimm universe. However, Juliette was written very consistently from the beginning so no one doubted where she stood within the scheme of the show-- she wasn't a shady character, just an unexciting one. Katrina, in comparison is just written so unclearly. She's been shady from the start but the writers kept urging us to support and stand by her. We were told to feel certain things for her but those urgings did not fit into the context of her character within the Sleepy Hollow universe. Not sure if I am being clear but I just think the problem with Katrina (besides Katia's acting) is that her actions happen in a vacuum because no one knows what her mission is or her stance on issues. 2 Link to comment
Yolapukka February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Buh-bye. I will not miss this character. She rarely entertained me. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 This thread should change it's name to "She's a (Not so) Good Witch". You know what - as much as I am celebrating her death right now - having her go "baddie" earlier this season would have been AWESOME! Winter can do it acting wise, and it would have given some major angst and drama and action. Stupid fucking writers who blew that opportunity. And I'm an Ichabbie shipper. 4 Link to comment
AmandaPanda February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 I would much rather have seen an Evil!Katrina for half the season instead of BlindMom!Katrina. 2 Link to comment
Luciano February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 (edited) This thread should change it's name to "She's a (Not so) Good Witch"."She was a (Not So) Good Witch."I really wonder if this is where they were heading all season (a bad and dead Katrina) or if they made major changes as a result of fan reaction. Killing a character off is such a big thing (especially if they have the future seasons already planned out) and if they did it because of external pressure, wow. (Either way, good choice.) Edited February 24, 2015 by Luciano 1 Link to comment
Watermelon February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 I feel like dead Katrina was plan G. They knew she wasn't REALLY vibing with the audience, but I think they thought Crane date night could turn the tide for her. They really didn't do right by the character or Katia, because this evil turn should have been ramped up since Henry's disappearance at Moloch's death. 2 Link to comment
tennisgurl February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Yeah, the evil turn was so hilariously abrupt. Maybe evil Katrina was always in the works, but I feel like it would have been more gradual and tragic, not just "Oh, ok, she`s evil now. Its ok to kill her." That being said... Nanana. Nanana. Hey Hey Hey. Good Bye.... 1 Link to comment
phoenics February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 I do kinda wish Grace had asked Abbie how she got her hair so straight, lol... I know that wasn't a thing back then though.. but it would have been funny. 2 Link to comment
RiddleyWalker February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 OMG! Hair again! Love you, Phoenics. ;) Link to comment
phoenics February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 OMG! Hair again! Love you, Phoenics. ;) LOL! I can't help it, lol! 1 Link to comment
Sparkling Beth February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 This thread should change it's name to "She's a (Not so) Good Witch". Or how about "Katrina Crane: She's a Dead Witch!" 2 Link to comment
DeLurker February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Or how about "Katrina Crane: She's a Dead Witch!" Katrina Crane: She's a Dead Witch. Good! 5 Link to comment
Dizzychickstar February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Lol! Anytime's a good time to discuss hair. Even in the heat of battle. 1 Link to comment
AmandaPanda February 25, 2015 Share February 25, 2015 Love it. I'll change it to Dead Witch in a couple days, just in case anyone hasn't watched the show yet. I don't want to accidentally spoil anyone. Link to comment
jhlipton February 25, 2015 Share February 25, 2015 This thread should change it's name to "She's a (Not so) Good Witch". Love "She's a Dead Witch"! LOL I do kinda wish Grace had asked Abbie how she got her hair so straight, lol... I know that wasn't a thing back then though.. but it would have been funny. "You put what on your head??? Girl, we use lye for a lot of weird shit, but that is just crazy-talk!" LOL 2 Link to comment
HalcyonDays February 25, 2015 Share February 25, 2015 Love "She's a Dead Witch"! LOL Awww. that's terrible...but funny....but terrible...but really funny....! Ha! I like it!! I put this in media, but it also belongs here. Why Katrina Had to Die. So so true... 3 Link to comment
Badsamaritan February 25, 2015 Share February 25, 2015 Or how about "Katrina Crane: She's a Dead Witch!" LOVE it, change approved! Link to comment
Sparkling Beth February 25, 2015 Share February 25, 2015 Did Katrina leave ashes when she disintegrated? If so, they could sprinkle her ashes on the beach and then she'd be a Sand Witch. (I am so sorry. Please forgive me.) 12 Link to comment
BigEasygirl March 1, 2015 Share March 1, 2015 This is from Tumblr where there's absolutely no chill. lol 7 Link to comment
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