S01.E09: Dex Education

[paigow]

9 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

Who played Dex's high school friend? She's familiar but I can't place her.

Lindy Booth...if Frances Fisher got de-aged, they could be twins.

[Tyro49]

15 hours ago, paigow said:

Lindy Booth...if Frances Fisher got de-aged, they could be twins.

Thank you. 😀

[UncleChuck]

On 12/17/2019 at 11:12 AM, Tyro49 said:

Who played Dex's high school friend? She's familiar but I can't place her.

That was Lindy Booth--the quirky math girl from "The Librarians".

 

[Clanstarling]

On 12/12/2019 at 3:01 PM, Bulldog said:

The thing that bothered me about the Liz reveal was that it seemed completely out of character for what we had seen of her up to this episode (either that, or there were clues along the way that I was too dense to catch). 

Hoping Grey gives Ansel the now open bartending job.

I thought Liz was sketchy from the get go, but I don't remember why. 

On 12/15/2019 at 9:05 PM, Court said:

That was Liz who said that, not Dex. Liz lied from the beginning. Dex didn't. She said it was a blur and was vague about it. 

So, being vague and leaving out important information... seems like lying to me. By omission, but still lying.

[Dowel Jones]

Only if she really did know what happened, I think.  While we're not in a court of law here, if Dex really couldn't remember what happened, then she isn't lying about saying so.  Additionally, absent any other actions or statements to the contrary, you pretty much have to take her at her word because large amounts of alcohol do have that effect.  All that being said, lying, for better or worse, is usually in the eyes, and ears, of the beholder.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

Only if she really did know what happened, I think.  While we're not in a court of law here, if Dex really couldn't remember what happened, then she isn't lying about saying so.  Additionally, absent any other actions or statements to the contrary, you pretty much have to take her at her word because large amounts of alcohol do have that effect.  All that being said, lying, for better or worse, is usually in the eyes, and ears, of the beholder.

That piece of information - what happened while she was drunk - absolutely, she's not lying by being vague about it. However, she was fully aware when she woke up with Liz naked beside her, and aware that there was a question of what happened physically. Leaving that out is maybe not lying, exactly, but also not telling the truth. Which under the circumstances, it's understandable that she doesn't  offer up that information, but it's still not exactly honest.

To be clear, Liz is the worst, and I am totally on Dex's side, but I don't see her as a bastion of honesty no matter how sympathetic I am toward her.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Clanstarling

[paigow]

Dex & Grey is like the pot calling the kettle a liar......

[jabRI]

I may likely be in the minority here, but I just need to say this. I've enjoyed the season and the story.  And I get that Dex is damaged due to her PTSD and other issues.  And I appreciate the honest portrayal of  veterans. 

But I'm having a hard time seeing why people want to hang out with her so much.  I've rarely seen her doing anything remotely warm to show her being a good friend, girlfriend, even sister (though she is protective of Ansel).

[possibilities]

I think Grey is the only one who really wants to hang out with her, and I think he is sympathetic due to his own damaged past. Miles doesn't really know her, other than the sex. And everyone else she meets she's  either swooping in as a hero to help them, or she's kicking their asses. Ansel loves her because she's his sister and she does take care of him, and is basically good to him when she's not flaking out-- but even then, she makes sure he's got back up from Grey.

[MissLucas]

On 12/17/2019 at 6:12 PM, Tyro49 said:

Who played Dex's high school friend? She's familiar but I can't place her.

Lindy Booth - she was in a ton of things but I remember her from 'The Librarians' where she played Cassandra Cillian. She was great and I think her scenes with Dex were the highlight of the episode. I wish the show would keep her as regular since she was a great foil for Dex - who is in desperate need of a female friend (Cosgrove and Sue Lynn are definitely more in the stern and often disapproving surrogate mother category).

It was a bit of a dick move by Grey to confront Dex right in front of Hoffman. Not too happy with this episode because it feels like the show wanted to have its cake and eat it i.e. break up all the relationships because Dex is a mess but ultimately she's not quite as much of a mess as we were led to believe. I would have preferred a non-evil Liz scenario if they really wanted to go there. 

As for Liz: her manipulative move came out of nowhere. Grey fell head-over-heels for her at their first meeting, they hooked up and he even gave her a job and was about to use the l-word. And yet she feels threatened by Dex? What makes this worse for me is that I've already seen this whole story starring Cobie Smulders as leading lady who keeps her platonic friends in such a tight grip that they can't have a romantic relationship (HIMYM).

Perfect Penny, Tookie, the score and Sue Lynn's advice about making your bed were the best things about this episode.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 12/16/2019 at 2:46 PM, joanne3482 said:

Ansel is probably also receiving SSDI in addition to whatever Grey pays him and would be eligible for a free bus pass. Portland has a great public transportation system so he could work without a car.

The clients I worked with at the group home received both an income from their job and SSDI and the SSDI paid for their actual room/board and the pay they received from their jobs paid for activities and things they wanted that were outside the standard (like a newer TV or one guy who wanted and saved for a fancy glass dining room table). In reality the group home model would be ideal for Ansel. We had some clients who just had a staff member come in for a couple hours in the evening but otherwise they were on their own. He needs additional support. I don't think he would be able to go from Dex & Grey looking out for him to living all by himself successfully. 

And this is the scenario I suggested many episodes ago, although I said that Dex should encourage Ansel to move into a group home so that he would be less reliant on her (including if at some point something happened to her, or if Grey were not available to help out).  I agree that Ansel shouldn't live completely on his own without some ongoing support. Plus, a group home would allow for the possibility of a social life.

Edited January 1, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[sinkwriter]

On 12/12/2019 at 5:01 PM, Bulldog said:

The thing that bothered me about the Liz reveal was that it seemed completely out of character for what we had seen of her up to this episode (either that, or there were clues along the way that I was too dense to catch). 

Didn't Liz first come into the bar doing something kind of sketchy, like giving fake tours or something? I vaguely remember Grey giving her a hard time about it, asking her to leave, and her asking him to just go along with it. Sorry! I can't remember the details of what she was doing. I remember thinking she was kind of suspect right from the start and may have had hidden motives that we'd find out later in the season.

With her setting up Dex and lying to Grey in this episode I felt like it was showing more of that sketchiness. I just didn't expect they'd wrap it up so quickly. I assumed they'd draw this out, and have her do all sorts of things in an attempt to isolate Grey from his former friends. I had no idea why she'd be doing that, but I figured they were going to make it agonizingly slow and annoying. So I'm just glad they didn't go that route and instead busted Liz right away.

On 12/30/2019 at 6:00 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

And this is the scenario I suggested many episodes ago, although I said that Dex should encourage Ansel to move into a group home so that he would be less reliant on her (including if at some point something happened to her, or if Grey were not available to help out).  I agree that Ansel shouldn't live completely on his own without some ongoing support. Plus, a group home would allow for the possibility of a social life.

I'm really worried about him now, mainly because they made such a point about him asking about how easy it is to get credit cards. Ansel, don't do it, man... that road can be dangerous.

(I just don't want to see him misunderstand how it works or something, and end up in massive debt that Dex will need to help him with. She's enough of a mess on her own.)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

Didn't Liz first come into the bar doing something kind of sketchy, like giving fake tours or something? I vaguely remember Grey giving her a hard time about it, asking her to leave, and her asking him to just go along with it. Sorry! I can't remember the details of what she was doing. I remember thinking she was kind of suspect right from the start and may have had hidden motives that we'd find out later in the season.

Yes, she was giving a tour of haunted bars in Portland. Grey told her that his bar wasn't haunted because it had just opened. She told him some ridiculous story about how it was a cannery 50 years ago and a fishmonger died in a sluicing accident and concluded with "Boom! Haunted!" He said not to tell the people on the tour that story because it was a lie. She told him to just go along with her made up story because she'd just brought him a bunch of people who would buy drinks aka paying customers.

[Nanrad]

On 12/13/2019 at 10:55 PM, Catfi9ht said:

Ugh. I generally like this show when Dex is using her cleverness to uncover or get out of a situation, but I thought this episode was terribly sexist.

I thought this episode was all about slut shaming Dex for something she wasn't even sure happened. Colby Smulders's facial expressions when Grey was confronting Dex about emotional trauma was really good.

Can we please have smarter writing than pitting two women against each other over a man? Thanks in advance!

Dex was never slut shamed. She was friend shamed. When Grey criticizes her sex life, it’s not she’s having sex, but who she has sex with and why.

In this case, he assumed he had sex with his girlfriend to implode his relationship with Liz and her own with Miles because she can only function in chaos. He’s criticizing her self destructive tendencies and toxic behavior.

On 12/13/2019 at 11:02 PM, shapeshifter said:

I want to argue against this, but I honestly can't. I don't get all worked up about "cheating" the way most folks do, but, yeah, in this episode it was Grey being all worked up about cheating that was running the plot, and possibly even motive for Ansel wanting to move out.  

The issue of cheating literally never came up for Grey. He was upset about Dex for “intentionally” ruining a good thing with his girlfriend (not cheating on Dex’s end) and trying to ruin her own relationship. He was then upset with Liz for lying to him and setting up Dex. Neither of these issues have anything to do with cheating, but very valid (at the time for dex) grievances with their actions.

On 12/14/2019 at 12:34 PM, Catfi9ht said:

I disagree. Dex said she didn't know if she slept with Liz and Liz said she did.

Grey believed a woman he barely knows who has been encroaching into his life very quickly over someone who he says is his best friend. When he confronted Dex about it, his rationale for not siding with her is because she sleeps around so she doesn't get emotionally connected to anyone.

To me, that's slut shaming because he automatically assumed Dex slept with Liz and then chastised Dex for her sexual history.

This isn’t exactly correct. Ansel was the one who led Grey to believe that they slept together and Liz stoked that fire.

We know that Dex is into a lot of casual hook ups AND that she drinks a lot. Dex not remembering in this case doesn’t mean, “well, she should automatically have the benefit of the doubt” because, most likely, there is a lot of stuff dex doesn’t remember due to drinking (that she did). Dex was also very hostile to Liz leading up to the event as well. Grey has known her long enough where dex being falsely accused of something does sound true. Dex didn’t say, “that doesn’t sound like something I’d do” or “you know me, I wouldn’t do something like that.”

she says she didn’t think she did it and went to check to tapes to see what happened because she honestly was unsure as well.

so, if dex is unsure, how is it wrong for Grey to believe she did it?

even then, he didn’t assume that because she slept around she had no emotional connections, he assumed that she slept with Liz to avoid stability and growing an even deeper emotional connection because it terrified her. 

Regardless, it’s not like Dex said anything to discount what Liz said. Liz was the only one who vaguely remembered anything, Dex didn’t know, and neither grey or dex thought what happened sounded out of character.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Nanrad

[Anela]

I've been catching up this afternoon/evening, and was pissed when Grey just unloaded on Dex, and believed this woman he's known for five minutes, over her. I was glad when he found out the truth, but I won't keep watching if they continue with this love triangle. I hate love triangles. 

And of course he did it in front of her sort-of boyfriend (unless Miles actually was her boyfriend, after Thanksgiving). 

[CooperTV]

5 hours ago, Anela said:

I hate love triangles. 

The show doesn't have any love triangles (outside of Liz's psychologically unstable brain).

[Anela]

10 hours ago, CooperTV said:

The show doesn't have any love triangles (outside of Liz's psychologically unstable brain).

They seemed to be pushing in that direction. Then I watched the newer episodes - although I will not put it past them to push that way again. 

[Jacks-Son]

On 12/30/2019 at 4:00 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

And this is the scenario I suggested many episodes ago, although I said that Dex should encourage Ansel to move into a group home so that he would be less reliant on her (including if at some point something happened to her, or if Grey were not available to help out).  I agree that Ansel shouldn't live completely on his own without some ongoing support. Plus, a group home would allow for the possibility of a social life.

I thought Dex's frustrated comment about not wanting Ansel to live with strangers covered the group home possibility.  Ansel said, he's going to be staying with people like him and that made an already furious Dex explode. C'mon, nobody likes a loved one to have to stay with strangers.  Think about placing your loved ones (e.g. parents, child) in a group home;  it's terrifying for all parties.  I understand that sometimes people have no choice, which actually makes the whole thing worse. Ansel is Central to Dex's life.  She has protected him ever since she arrived home from her tour and took Ansel in (which would make an interesting flashback). So she's afraid that if neither she nor Grey are around, Ansel can be abused by group home employees or other residents.  Proponents of group homes will probably make an excellent case for them, but it's not easy to let go of someone you've accepted as your responsibility, to be taken care of by others, even if it makes YOUR life easier.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Jacks-Son

[Clanstarling]

50 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

I thought Dex's frustrated comment about not wanting Ansel to live with strangers covered the group home possibility.  Ansel said, he's going to be staying with people like him and that made an already furious Dex explode. C'mon, nobody likes a loved one to have to stay with strangers.  Think about placing your loved ones (e.g. parents, child) in a group home;  it's terrifying for all parties.  I understand that sometimes people have no choice, which actually makes the whole thing worse. Ansel is Central to Dex's life.  She has protected him ever since she arrived home from her tour and took Ansel in (which would make an interesting flashback). So she's afraid that if neither she nor Grey are around, Ansel can be abused by group home employees or other residents.  Proponents of group homes will probably make an excellent case for them, but it's not easy to let go of someone you've accepted as your responsibility, to be taken care of by others, even if it makes YOUR life easier.

All of that is valid, to me at least. Plus it seems to me, at this point Dex needs Ansel more than Ansel needs Dex. So her own (probably unacknowledged) needs feed into that fear.

[Jacks-Son]

2 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

All of that is valid, to me at least. Plus it seems to me, at this point Dex needs Ansel more than Ansel needs Dex. So her own (probably unacknowledged) needs feed into that fear.

There's a certain strength one can gain by being responsible for someone other than yourself. The feeling of letting someone down and not letting them suffer through any kind of discomfort can bolster one's determination and courage.  Dex does need Ansel; he gives her purpose and though she can appear distracted at times, she does have Ansel's welfare at the forefront of her "Hot Mess".

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

There's a certain strength one can gain by being responsible for someone other than yourself. The feeling of letting someone down and not letting them suffer through any kind of discomfort can bolster one's determination and courage.  Dex does need Ansel; he gives her purpose and though she can appear distracted at times, she does have Ansel's welfare at the forefront of her "Hot Mess".

That doesn't mean it's best for Ansel. She should want what's best for him, and not use him as a crutch.

I think if he were being abused at a group home (which is highly speculative) he would let her know. He still works at Grey's bar-he's not going to lose contact with the outside world. A group home for adults with moderate cognitive impairment is not a nursing home or an orphanage.

Edited February 2, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

That doesn't mean it's best for Ansel. She should want what's best for him, and not use him as a crutch.

Accepting someone else as partly your responsibility and using that as motivation is not using them as a crutch. Parents accept responsibility and that is motivation enough.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

20 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Accepting someone else as partly your responsibility and using that as motivation is not using them as a crutch. Parents accept responsibility and that is motivation enough.

Sure, but a parent who resists letting an adult child move out to attend college or to attempt another, separate living condition that the child has given ample thought to is not doing what is best for said child, even though there is always a chance that the move will not be successful and that the child will have to return home for a while. With a parent and a child, we would consider that wrong.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Sure, but a parent who resists letting an adult child move out to attend college or to attempt another, separate living condition that the child has given ample thought to is not doing what is best for said child, even though there is always a chance that the move will not be successful and that the child will have to return home for a while. With a parent and a child, we would consider that wrong.

Of course. On the other hand, this is the story about a deeply flawed woman who has some pretty serious issues and is at this point, doing the best she can, who deeply loves her brother and feels guilty about not being there for him when his parents left. So I find it fairly easy to be compassionate even while acknowledging she doesn't have the healthiest responses in the world. In fact, Ansel may be the healthiest person emotionally on this show.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Clanstarling