S04.E08: Safe and Sound

[thewhiteowl]

Bull helps to defend an old college friend who is charged with negligent homicide.

[Grrarrggh]

Yet another episode where questions that should have been asked and investigated weren't until the dramatic storyline required it 🙄

[HurricaneVal]

The outcome of this case was telegraphed from the first moments.  The bad brother manipulated his good brother into leaving the room on a pretense that he thinks he heard his parents coming home.  Then you can hear the clinking clicking sounds that sounded, to me, like someone loading a gun.  So the bad brother purposely loading the gun and shooting the good brother was not at all a surprise to me.  I knew that from the first five minutes.

My favorite part, though, was the whole contagious yawn bit to test for empathic sensitivity, which the kid totally failed.

But the asshole prosecutor totally passed.

(True confession:  I am a terrible sympathetic yawner.  In person, on TV, across a crowd....if I see someone yawn, it is an absolute compulsion to yawn too.  I just have to hear the word, and I'll yawn.  I could barely watch the last fifteen minutes of the episode last night because my eyes kept closing with each jaw cracking yawn I was compelled to do.  Second true confession:  Apparently I just need to think about yawning, or type the word, because I've yawned at least ten times while making this post!)

[zoey1996]

I was a bit further in before I caught on that the younger brother was the culprit.  I was surprised that the bullet hadn't already been tested for fingerprints.  

Loved seeing Jack Gore (Timmy Cleary from The Kids Are Alright) and Sebastian Arcelus (Jay from Madam Secretary) as son and father tonight.

I just wish Bull and Izzy's baby storyline could turn out to be all a bad dream.  Just think it adds nothing to the show.

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, zoey1996 said:

I was a bit further in before I caught on that the younger brother was the culprit.  I was surprised that the bullet hadn't already been tested for fingerprints.  

For me it was obvious from the start that the younger brother killed the older brother. Why else would he have purposely had the older brother leave the room and then point the gun at him and shoot as soon as he returned. The actor playing the younger brother also did a good job of playing an emotionless kid.

The bullet was tested for fingerprints - it didn't yield any. Bull mad up the lie about sending it out of the country for testing to get the kid to confess. (Assuming that is what you mean about the bullet already being tested?). 

[zoey1996]

27 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

For me it was obvious from the start that the younger brother killed the older brother. Why else would he have purposely had the older brother leave the room and then point the gun at him and shoot as soon as he returned. The actor playing the younger brother also did a good job of playing an emotionless kid.

The bullet was tested for fingerprints - it didn't yield any. Bull mad up the lie about sending it out of the country for testing to get the kid to confess. (Assuming that is what you mean about the bullet already being tested?). 

No, I meant that they didn't test for fingerprints right away.  I knew the DNA thing was fake just to get the kid to confess.

[Bobbin]

7 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

The outcome of this case was telegraphed from the first moments.  The bad brother manipulated his good brother into leaving the room on a pretense that he thinks he heard his parents coming home.  Then you can hear the clinking clicking sounds that sounded, to me, like someone loading a gun.  So the bad brother purposely loading the gun and shooting the good brother was not at all a surprise to me.  I knew that from the first five minutes.

My favorite part, though, was the whole contagious yawn bit to test for empathic sensitivity, which the kid totally failed.

But the asshole prosecutor totally passed.

(True confession:  I am a terrible sympathetic yawner.  In person, on TV, across a crowd....if I see someone yawn, it is an absolute compulsion to yawn too.  I just have to hear the word, and I'll yawn.  I could barely watch the last fifteen minutes of the episode last night because my eyes kept closing with each jaw cracking yawn I was compelled to do.  Second true confession:  Apparently I just need to think about yawning, or type the word, because I've yawned at least ten times while making this post!)

LOL. I yawned just reading this!

[Dowel Jones]

So, now we know why Jay didn't follow Bess into the White House.

I agree about the telegraphing at the beginning.  Charlie pulled the trigger twice on empty cylinders before they started wrestling for the gun.  And I heard the clicks also.

Somehow I don't think TAC is going to get paid for either defense on this one.

Benny was the actual attorney this time.  I wish, just once, that a judge wouldn't issue stern statements like that, but actually throw the attorney in jail for a day or two.  None of this 'one more time and I'll...'  Do it.  Now.  Notice the ADA didn't even apologize, something Benny at least fakes in court.

I was watching Marissa explain to Charlie what TAC does, and waiting for him to ask "So, how does Dr. Bull know who the jurors are?" and Marissa to stumble and mumble "Ah, well, ah...moving on..."

[Netfoot]

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I was watching Marissa explain to Charlie what TAC does...

Something that Hollywood consistently gets wrong: if you are searching for something -- a fingerprint, a face -- it makes the search several thousand times slower, if you insist on displaying each item as you check it.  

[LuvMyShows]

There is absolutely no way on earth that the parents would not have had hundreds of clues already about their son having no empathy.  I kept waiting for one of the parents to say something like, "Yes, we've noticed so many unusual things like that with him, but just kept thinking it was due to circumstances, or Charlie being ill at the time...we just never wanted to admit that it could be true."  And then the other parent would protest a bit, but finally come around because they knew in their heart that it was true.

[Mama No Life]

21 hours ago, Bobbin said:

LOL. I yawned just reading this!

Me too!  And from your reply.

[Bobbin]

4 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

Me too!  And from your reply.

We must both be hyper empathetic.

On a serious note, not all children with that condition are intentionally homicidal by nature. Most just have no conscience, no fear of consequences and no impulse control. Our neighbor's child suffered brain damage in an accident and afterward had to be kept away from sharp ojects and always be watched. I met with another family once that was very much like the couple in this episode, the mother in particlular in denial that their son was capable of having killed his sibling on purpose -- but having spent a short time with him, I could believe it:  no remorse, no emotion at all.

[Netfoot]

If you are intent on killing your brother, why would you choose a method which (initially) requires you to try 10,000 combinations and then, once access has been gained, forces you to be the operator of the gun, taking at least some responsibility for it?

Why not have him fall out of a tree?  Trip down the stairs?  OD on drugs?  Set himself on fire?  No matter how you claim it wasn't your fault, if you pull the trigger you will get some side-eye.  

[HurricaneVal]

Mr. HV has taken some young firestarters forensic psychology courses at the National Fire Academy aimed at helping fire departments recognize and deal with these unique and dangerous young arsonists.  Part of that class includes visiting a youth incarceration facility where these very disturbed individuals are imprisoned and treated.  The students interview and talk with the kids/teens so they get a sense of what the personality type is like and maybe get some insights on behavior and motivations.  It is part of a larger study, because then the students are debriefed by doctors and researchers at the facility to see if any of the students teased out any new information from the perpetrators. 

My husband said that almost all the kids/teens there fit the sociopath type, with a few kids that just really, really, really like fire.  As for the sociopath types, they also fall into different degrees of sociopathy.  Some seemed almost normal, until you steered the conversation a certain way, then they'd take a turn to the creepy (the students were given hints for each subject).

But there was this one kid.  Who had committed horrific family and local murders when he was a kid, and was now a teen.  Mr. HV said after talking with him, he wanted to take a shower, and barricade himself in his room.  He said this kid knew exactly what he had done, and exactly what he was doing, and exactly what he wanted to do when he got out.  And yes, he will be released.  All the subjects are kept anonymous, and interviewed under fake names, but this kid's crimes were so heinous that Mr. HV did an internet search to see if he could find the details about who this kid really was and where he might return to after he was released.

Mr. HV found lots of cases like the one he was searching for.  Lots. 

Now try to sleep tonight....

[Bobbin]

On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 8:03 AM, Netfoot said:

Something that Hollywood consistently gets wrong: if you are searching for something -- a fingerprint, a face -- it makes the search several thousand times slower, if you insist on displaying each item as you check it.  

Very true. Even having the code window open slows down the procedure. Constantly refreshing the display is purely for show.

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 11:27 PM, Dowel Jones said:

I wish, just once, that a judge wouldn't issue stern statements like that, but actually throw the attorney in jail for a day or two.  None of this 'one more time and I'll...'  Do it.  Now.

Like on NCIS:LA when Marty rescued Kensi from a a terrorist. Terrorist: "Don't take another st...!" Marty: [Bang! Bang!]

[Kfir]

Obvious from the start that the younger brother was a sociopath, the urgent nature of why he had to see the gun. The distraction to get him out of the room. 

On the bright side at least they didn't mention any anti gun propaganda during the ep. Very rare for a tv show now to avoid the political angle.

[Sake614]

Okay I guess I just didn’t see the signs. I knew that Charlie was going to shoot his brother. That much was very clear from the moment theo opened the safe. As was the ADA turning around and charging the father with negligence (or negligent homicide). Regardless of his certainty that he fired all 6 bullets at the range, he was clearly too preoccupied with his cell phone conversation to double check the Weapon as EVERY sign instructed. But even without that scene, I thought it was conceivable that there was one bullet left in the chamber. What I did not catch was that it was intentional until Bull listened to the 911 recording. 

[Tony Dickson]

Not to mention the fact that a revolver doesn't eject the cartridge cases, and he would normally have opened the cylinder to eject the spent brass anyway.

[The Rambler]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:47 AM, HurricaneVal said:

"Mr. HV has taken some young firestarters forensic psychology courses at the National Fire Academy aimed at helping fire departments recognize and deal with these unique and dangerous young arsonists.  Part of that class includes visiting a youth incarceration facility where these very disturbed individuals are imprisoned and treated...

My husband said that almost all the kids/teens there fit the sociopath type, with a few kids that just really, really, really like fire. 

As for the sociopath types, they also fall into different degrees of sociopathy...

But there was this one kid.  Who had committed horrific family and local murders when he was a kid, and was now a teen.  Mr. HV said after talking with him, he wanted to take a shower, and barricade himself in his room.....

He said this kid knew exactly what he had done, and exactly what he was doing, and exactly what he wanted to do when he got out.  And yes, he will be released. 

Mr. HV found lots of cases like the one he was searching for.  Lots. 

Now try to sleep tonight...." 

<<Snipped from your comment

😱🔥🔥👹👺😈 That's some disturbing findings regarding these underage evildoers. Downright scary indeed!

Especially considering the horrific depraved crimes a lot of these youths have already committed at their ages! Imagine what's in store for some future innocent victims whose paths happen to cross these malevolent predators! 😳😱😮🤢👻👹Those monsters abhorrent behaviors will acerbate the older, harder, and darker these types become. 

Your post was quite informative and a real eye opener! Hopefully some clueless ones who don't think these corrupt type of minors should pay for the heinous crimes that they are capable of committing and cognitively aware of.

Wow!! Mr. HV has good reasons for his feelings and needing to "wash" away his encounters with such depraved, beyond evil, psychotically deranged monsters who make your "normal garden variety" psychopaths look like "choir boys", so to speak.

Can you imagine having to work in these type of facilities that house the worst of the worse malevolent predators!! Any staff that work in those types of high level security facilities on a daily basis, surely has burnout shortly afterwards.

No doubt there's a huge turnover in hiring new staff/ workers who are constantly coming and going. I can't blame them at all.

What a shame that these monsters not only exist, but that they live amongst us.😱😢🤯🥺

Like that sappy mother in Bull, whose creepy psychopathic son Charles killed his brother, the "good" son, she actually defended him and refused to heed Bull's professional observations and advice on how that monster is an extreme threat to her, and if the father Erik went to jail, she'd be alone and at the mercy of that murdering monster son of her's!!

That lunatic mother didn't believe Bull or else didn't care!? Then there's her equally nutty (martyred) husband Erik, joining in the madness  by enabling their monster son Charles' abhorrently henius psychopathic behaviors to continue and go unpunished!! 

Unbelievable that the both of them were mad at Bull for getting justice for the "good" son, while saving their lives with having that murdering monster Charles locked 🔐 away! 

No wonder Charles turned out to be such an evil monster.🤦

~The Rambler