S03.E09: Imbroglio

[Scarlett45]

On 12/4/2019 at 10:06 AM, peace355 said:

I agree with other that characters this season seem to be inconsistent but I did enjoy this episode, probably one of my favorites this season and I think the reason for that is it was much more of an ensemble episode. We got time with the Queen and PM and the coal miner strike, Prince Edwards funeral briefly, Camilla and Charles with Mountbatton and Queen Mother's scheming and of course Ann being brilliant and witty.

I've found too many episodes focused on just one character this season and honestly those "poor rich me, no one understands me" episodes get rather annoying (Phillip, Lord Mountbatton, Prince Edward and Margaret in particular, the Charles episode was okay)

I don't expect historical accuracy from this show, so I expect liberties, but I would like to see the cast interact with each other and the world more, I felt this episode had a better balance of that.

I like the more ensemble feel to this episode as well. They felt like a "family" interacting with each other in a group, rather than just the 1x1 relationships. I can believe from the actors portrayals that Camilla did start out with Prince Charles to make Andrew jealous but developed feelings for him even knowing there was no "future" together. I loved the elders bringing Princess Anne in the room "give us the real tea please'- SUCH a thing I have seen in my family, when elders want to know what's going on, you ask the closest sibling, cousin or the bff for the truth. 

I can also believe Prince Charles was deeply in love with Camilla and wanted to believe she felt the same. Yes he was the Prince of Wales but he wasn't popular or dashing like Andrew. Him crying on the ship, seemed very much like a sensitive young man who got his heart broken, in a culture that has no space for male sensitivity. 

[ruby24]

I didn't think this episode shed much light on Charles and Camila's relationship. We don't really get to know her at all or exactly WHY he felt that she was the "one."

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I didn't think this episode shed much light on Charles and Camila's relationship. We don't really get to know her at all or exactly WHY he felt that she was the "one."

No we really didn't. 

[Kath94]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:38 AM, SeanC said:

I had never heard of the power cuts caused by the 1974 miners’ strike, and was baffled that any government would think that such a catastrophic disruption to everyday life would ever work out for them electorally.

My husband is British & he's enjoying the story lines as reliving his childhood.  He was barely a teen in 1974 & remembers the power outages & the news report of people retrieving old heaters from the attic made him laugh in recognition.  I asked him if the Palace really was affected like they showed, and he confirmed that they "suffered" as well.

I asked if there were any deaths associated with these outages, knowing that there have been reports of Americans dying of carbon monoxide poisoning from running generators in their houses or using outdoor grills to heat their homes.  He wasn't aware of any.

On 11/20/2019 at 2:25 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

So PM Heath was frightened of the Queen’s cute little corgies? OK, then. Lord Mountbatten and Tywin Lannister have a lot in common. 

<SNIP>

I know very little of British history, but now with Harold Wilson & Edward Heath, every time he's on screen I hum The Beatles "Taxman." 

"Taxman, Mr. Wilson; Taxman, Mr. Heath!"

Edited December 13, 2019 by Kath94

[mmecorday]

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P.S. I didn't see The Favorite, but Olivia Coleman's expression when the queen gives a brief, mirthless smile is exactly like Carol Burnett's when she sends up the queen.

OMG, while watching this season, I have thought the same thing!

[merylinkid]

PM Heath really was that out of touch.   He really believed that THOSE people should accept what their "Betters" were offering them and be darn grateful they were getting anything at all.   The miners continuing to strike really surprised him.   In his meeting with the Queen he genuinely believed that the government had made great offers and the miners were just being stubborn.   

I can believe Wallis told Charles she and Edward were a great love story.   That was how they officially portrayed themselves.   She told the lie so often it was natural.   And a way to mess with an impressionable young man.   She HATED the Royal Family for never giving her the HRH, let alone not allowing her to be Queen.   She latched onto David to become Queen.   When he abdicated for "true love" she was stuck marrying him without the perks which were the whole reason she got with him in the first place.   But because he abdicated to be with the woman he loved, they had to go with that story in order to stay in the good graces of the media and get $$$$.   If they had admitted they came to loathe each other, there would go all the freebies.

Anne was spot on.   When she said "As opposed to the hysterical person I normally am?" and looked sidewide, she was looking at Philip.   Who responded with a sigh.    So his daughter.    Then when she said she was sleeping with Andrew Parker Bowles, he said "spare me"   He did NOT want to know about his daughter's love life.

Camilla really was in love with Andrew and "like" with Charles.    She wanted him and only him.   So her looking pensive at her wedding was more than a little liberty.   She would have been thrilled to finally have landed him.   

[Milburn Stone]

On 12/28/2019 at 8:37 AM, merylinkid said:

I can believe Wallis told Charles she and Edward were a great love story.   That was how they officially portrayed themselves.   She told the lie so often it was natural.   And a way to mess with an impressionable young man. 

I can believe all that too. The problem is that the show--the writing and the performances--is intent this season on making us believe that she and her husband were truthful. That shot of her looking at David's photograph--that was in private, so her tears were genuine. Her warning to Charles was portrayed to the audience as entirely well-meant, with not a hint of agenda. It's clear this season that the show not only wants us to understand how show-Charles myopically perceived the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, but to actually buy them as wonderful people.

The other thing that's troubling me is that the show's Prince Charles matches up so poorly with the Prince Charles I've known (from a distance) all my life. I understand that IRL I only see the public Prince Charles. Still, that public Prince Charles is a man who stands up straight, has a dry, self-deprecating wit that comes from a position of confidence (not self-pity), and interests himself in public works while enduring a "career situation" that would challenge the best of us. The simpering, self-obsessed fool of the show doesn't match this at all. Either Peter Morgan really knows something about Charles that no one else knows, or he's being exceedingly unfair if not malicious.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Milburn Stone

[Pallas]

On 1/13/2020 at 8:17 AM, Milburn Stone said:

Still, that public Prince Charles is a man who stands up straight, has a dry, self-deprecating wit that comes from a position of confidence (not self-pity), and interests himself in public works while enduring a "career situation" that would challenge the best of us

Responding in Season 3 History. 

 

 

[Wordsworth]

On 11/25/2019 at 2:20 PM, MaggieG said:

 

I laughed when Elizabeth tried to ring her bell to dismiss Heath, realized the power was out and had to pick up an actual bell and ring it.

This.

Mr. Wordsworth and I giggled through this.  It helped that Elizabeth was really angry at Heath and, for once, really let it show in a way she hasn't since dressing down Churchill.

The dry wit of Princess Anne just killed us this time around.  The actress is a good fit for her.


 

[sugarbaker design]

On 11/22/2019 at 2:23 AM, Cheezwiz said:

They've kind of done an about-face on Edward & Wallis, and seem to have dropped any nuance in the Queen's reactions.

I just don't see the writer making an about face concerning the D&DofW.  In seasons 1 and 2 they were portrayed as shallow, vain, bitter, vicious Nazi-loving parasites.  Virtually the most accurate portrayal of those two in film or TV.  In season 3 they're portrayed as shallow, vain, bitter, vicious Nazi-loving parasites trying to rehabilitate their image with the next generation of Windsors.  Of course they focus their PR on the most gullible.

Edited June 11, 2020 by sugarbaker design

[doodlebug]

On 6/10/2020 at 9:07 PM, sugarbaker design said:

I just don't see the writer making an about face concerning the D&DofW.  In seasons 1 and 2 they were portrayed as shallow, vain, bitter, vicious Nazi-loving parasites.  Virtually the most accurate portrayal of those two in film or TV.  In season 3 they're portrayed as shallow, vain, bitter, vicious Nazi-loving parasites trying to rehabilitate their image with the next generation of Windsors.  Of course they focus their PR on the most gullible.

I agree, I think the show presented them as they were including their attempts to manipulate Prince Charles who wasn't even born when they went into exile and only had a vague, sanitized picture of the reasons behind the abdication and exile.   I think the show probably took some liberty with the extent of the relationship and Charles' feelings about his great Uncle David in order to draw parallels with his relationship with Camilla (parallels that weren't really true, IMO); but I don't doubt that Uncle David reached out to Charles as he got older, knowing that he would need Charles' support should Elizabeth die unexpectedly and, also, because he and the Duchess really wanted to worm their way back into British society and be recognized as important members of the royal family-Wallis lusted after that HRH-and figured Charles, not having known his grandfather well or his great uncle at all, would be a good conduit to provide that entree.

[Camera One]

I agree as others said above, that it was nice to see more interactions between members of this family.  Finally, after eight episodes.  

Though, as with most stories like this, the meddlesome family members should have just left the undesirable relationship to run its course.  All Dickie had to do was to reveal that Camilla was still seeing Andrew behind Charles' back.  Instead, all the maneuvering meant that Charles blamed his family instead of Camilla for choosing someone else.

The Queen Mother smiled sweetly in the background for 8 episodes and suddenly woke up and took charge?  It felt unnatural.

I don't get why Elizabeth doesn't show Charles that she supports him, since we only see her defending him to other people, whether her believing that he liked being at Cambridge, or thinking that Charles could add to his speech in the Wales episode, or feeling that Charles should be able to choose who he wants to marry.  There's no reason given for this, so instead, we get frustrating misunderstandings driving conflict that feels manufactured.

I wasn't happy to see the invented stuff about Charles and Uncle David continue on in this episode, and being such a driver of his character.  It's distracting to have major character development be built on pure fiction.

[Spartan Girl]

I’m sorry but when Charles was yammering to Camilla about David being shut out of the family because of his “individuality”, all I could think was: ”HE WAS A FUCKING NAZI SYMPATHIZER, CHARLES!”

Edited February 7, 2021 by Spartan Girl