S02.E07: Bruce Wayne

[MarkHB]

Quote

Tensions are running high at Titans Tower after their most recent encounter with Deathstroke. Kory attempts to learn more about Conner Kent, and Rose tries to help Jason cope with his near-death experience, while the old Titans keep getting mysterious reminders of a past they’d rather forget. As Dick sets out alone to track down Deathstroke, a familiar voice begins to haunt him – taunting him and attempting to guide him back to being the leader the Titans need. With all the strange ongoing happenings and Dick’s continuing to keep the team in the dark, both Jason and the Titans reach a potential breaking point.

[Jenniferbug]

Oh, Dick. Baby. You're spiraling. 

This episode was definitely not what I was expecting when I saw the title, but I thought it was really interesting. Iain Glen looked like he was having a lot of fun with it! I still want to see him interact with Jason because I just don't get how that team dynamic worked, but I also can kind of see why he sent him to Dick thinking he would be better able to reach him.

Also- WTF with everyone hanging up on Jason at the end?! That was actually horrifying to me. He's a kid who has been through a very traumatic experience and they're accusing him of messing with them? When has it ever been in his MO to mess with people like that instead of run his mouth to someone's face? I thought Dawn would be the voice of reason for a minute but no. Too bad Starfire was with Conner so she wasn't available to knock sense into their heads. Gar was absent too, likely for the same reason (though he was absent basically all episode which sucks!). I don't get why Rose wouldn't be the more obvious (to them) perpetrator? 

Yay for Krypto being free and at the tower!!!

Ok so I don't know a lot about comics, but 

Spoiler

Jericho can possess people with his mind, right? Is it possible he's still around somehow possessing them? Jason seemed really off even for a trauma victim and Dick hallucinating Bruce berating him and trying to get him to confess he killed Jericho seems pretty mentally unhealthy. While Dick isn't a paragon of sanity, it felt like there was an agenda to push him to that confession at the end. He would know how to mess with the original Titans and was definitely in the tower (possibly living in Jason's old room at one point?). But I don't know that he could possess both Jason and Dick. Is that something he can do? And if so, where has he been hanging out (at least mentally) all this time? Can he survive as a body less conciousness? Maybe Rose? I have more questions about this than answers LOL

[Sakura12]

Krypto can fly. I'm happy the Titans have a dog now they could use one, especially a super hero one. Also did Kory burn off his pants or did they strip him naked to take out bullets from his chest? In 2 episode Connor's ass can be another character. Lol 

Poor Jason, he's been through a trauma and none of them care. Kory was too busy taking care of her newest kid who was dying. She probably would've been like wtf guys, jason doesn't know anything about what happened and wouldn't know about Donna's favorite drink or about Rachel's crosses. 

 

In the comics Jericho survived by jumping into his father's body and was dormant until he heard about one of the titans dying. So in this it could be the Titans reforming and Jericho jumped into Jason's body to get back to the Titans tower. He's probably jumping back between Gar and Jason and using them to mess with the Titans. He needs them unconscious to take over. Gar was sleeping and Jason kept standing around in a trance. 

It could actually have been Jericho talking about Dick taking kids and turning them weapons. That was his thing in the comics too he wanted to stop Dick from doing that. 

[Cthulhudrew]

Ugh to the "Bruce Wayne as imaginary conscience" story technique. At least I can write off the odd characterization of Bruce by Iain Glenn as Dick's mental reconstruction rather than any interpretation of the character.

I think this story moved too slowly, took us way too long to walk through Dick's psyche to get to a point that we already pretty much saw coming (and I don't for a second believe the "I killed Deathstroke's son" is literal; I'm 100% certain it's just "I as much as killed him because I brought him into the Titans where xxx killed him.")

I thought the other character arc- Jason's- was much better, and would have preferred there to be a more direct parallel between him and Dick. I also would have liked to see more of the other characters. Connor's reunion with his mom and Krypto was touching, and I like seeing Kory continue to show her badassery, but everyone else is just window dressing right now. (And I forget who mentioned it last week, but it really is criminal just how little Ryan Potter is being used even by the standards of the rest of the cast right now).

Let's hope they never use "imaginary Bruce" again. 

ETA: I hadn't considered that "Bruce" might somehow be Jericho. That's a pretty clever idea, and if it turns out to be true, I may need to re-evaluate that aspect of this episode.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Cthulhudrew

[MarkHB]

I had two very strong reactions to this episode:

OMG SHE FLEW OFF ON KRYPTO!!!

OMG IMAGINARY BRUCE IS DOING THE BATUSI!!!

And then, the idea that Dick was blaming Bruce for his getting so dark all of last season when it was his own guilt driving him that way. If it's a retcon at least they put some effort into it.

[Lyanna19]

I really really don't like Iain Glen as Bruce Wayne. I really really hate it.

(there! I said it. I can rest now. Or not, why oh why didn't they think of Henry Cavill or someone like Henry for Bruce?)

I really really like Brenton Thwaites for Dick  though, he's awesome! 

(Overdid it with reallys )

Spoiler

Anyways, they episode did touch on the relationship between Dick and Bruce tho, albeit maybe a bit over the top...I always thought those two did respect each other even when on opposing sides, even when Dick moved to Bludhaven to be on his own, I always got the respect to Bruce and vice versa, except when he refused to wear the Batman cowl, but that's not here or now 

Spoiler

Quote

Edited October 19, 2019 by Lyanna19
Can't get rid of the second spoiler tag

[MarkHB]

This is an episode thread; please take the spoiler-tagged sidebar to the new Unspoiled Speculation thread.  Book-based discussion is explicitly allowed there.

[paulvdb]

I'm not an animal person so I could do without the dog. And especially the fact that he's another character getting more screentime than Gar who was only in one random scene this episode.

[Lyanna19]

@paulvdb well your post made me laugh, don't mind the dog, but I agree where was Gar? I even forgot about Raven until she made an appearance! 

[Cthulhudrew]

On 10/19/2019 at 1:49 PM, paulvdb said:

I'm not an animal person so I could do without the dog. And especially the fact that he's another character getting more screentime than Gar who was only in one random scene this episode.

Maybe we can get an all Gar and Krypto episode where Gar has to stay in animal shape the entire time. Like a Titans version of "Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey."

[Primal Slayer]

This show needs a new showrunner. I can enjoy each episode for the most part but it takes us 5 episodes to get through 24 hours and the constant pause on the main storyline to focus on a character is starting to get to me. 

Ian was an interesting choice for Bruce so ti get an entire episode of him as a goofy illusion did not make me enjoy this version of Bruce. I just can't imagine him as Batman. 

[Sakura12]

This show has serious pacing issues. They have good story ideas, they just don't seem to know how to tell the story. So I agree they need a show runner. 

As for the character focused episodes, it seems only some get an actual focused episode while for other getting a title named after them just means they are in the episode. 

[Linderhill]

44 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

This show needs a new showrunner. I can enjoy each episode for the most part but it takes us 5 episodes to get through 24 hours and the constant pause on the main storyline to focus on a character is starting to get to me. 

Ian was an interesting choice for Bruce so ti get an entire episode of him as a goofy illusion did not make me enjoy this version of Bruce. I just can't imagine him as Batman. 

I agree about the Bruce illusion.  About half way thru I was yelling at the screen telling him to just shut-up, shut-up, shut-up. So annoying.  Krypto was the best part of the episode and it was nice that Kori actually got to do something. I've seen it proposed that Jason was brainwashed by Deathstroke.

[phoenics]

I - don't know what I think about this episode.

I figured Jason was brainwashed by Slade/Deathstroke - remember he had him with headphones on while he was captured?  I feel like that was some kind of brainwashing device after I saw Jason in the trances during this episode.  I'm unhappy with how everyone turned on Jason.  

One thing I noticed:  all of the pictures Dick saw in the church?  They were from that same day.  And all of them could have been taken from the main control room.  DS doesn't need to be there to get them - he could've just hacked their system.  Or maybe Jason did it.

I am beginning to wonder if Jericho is still "alive".  

Gar is still criminally underused.  I'm actually not hating the idea for him to have an episode as a dog, hanging with Krypto, lol.  At least he'd get some focus.  That's really sad though.

I love how smart Krypto is - can he understand human language?  Seems like it.

Kory is such a badass mama.  I love her rescuing Conner.  And that scene of her burning like the sun and Rachel containing it was beautiful.  Wow.

I did not like Ian's interpretation of !PsychicIllusionBruce.  It just wasn't Bruce Wayne.  At all.  I can't even imagine Dick imagining a Bruce that acts like that.  Just ... no.

ETA:  Just read a comparison of !PsychicIllusionBruce dancing to 60s tv show Batman.  I see that I guess.  But I don't want that, lol.

Oh Dick.  I actually DO think he killed Jericho.  Literally killed Jericho.  Otherwise, why would he be so desperate to keep the team from finding out what he did?  They all already believe they used Jericho to get to DS... it sounds like they don't know what happened and think DS killed Jericho, just like Rose thinks DS killed Jericho.  Dick killing Jericho and being eaten up with guilt over it explains everything.  Leaving Bruce.  Being so angry about what he did that he projects all of it onto Bruce... everything.  Dick went too far.

I guess this could all still be true even if Dick didn't literally kill Jericho - maybe it was an accident or something - or Dick thinks he killed him?

I dunno.

The show has pacing issues though - it feels like a car struggling to get over 55 mph... it keeps approaching that speed and then a random stoplight pops up and destroys the momentum.

When everyone was accusing Jason and then Dick came in and !PsychicIllusionBruce says "someone's missing" and Dick goes "Jason", why didn't Dick realize Rose wasn't there either?

Edited October 21, 2019 by phoenics

[Katsullivan]

12 hours ago, phoenics said:

I'm unhappy with how everyone turned on Jason.

I thought everyone was being brainwashed in this episode. Even Dick's ghost!Bruce seemed like a manipulated hallucination. 

That said, even Krypto got more screentime than Gar this episode. 😬

[phoenics]

On 10/21/2019 at 12:35 PM, Katsullivan said:

That said, even Krypto got more screentime than Gar this episode. 😬

This is sooo sad.

Although now that I think about it - Gar was "asleep" when all hell was breaking loose... and Gar is the one in the tower with the tech expertise.  Although Donna can do stuff too based on the Garth episode... those pictures DS had could definitely have come from the tech control room.

But seriously - where did Rose go?

Edited October 22, 2019 by phoenics

[Quark]

The scene with Krypto and Eve flying out of Cadmus was absolutely hysterical. I couldn't stop laughing.

The momentum of this show is very weird.

[Bruinsfan]

When Krypto took off with Eve hanging around his neck I had a brief moment of thinking she was going to be scraped off like a barnacle when he went through a metal or concrete wall, then the camera view changed to show them flying away through that comically big and unlikely picture window in a top secret lab.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Bruinsfan

[blackwing]

On 10/18/2019 at 11:58 PM, Lyanna19 said:

I really really don't like Iain Glen as Bruce Wayne. I really really hate it.

(there! I said it. I can rest now. Or not, why oh why didn't they think of Henry Cavill or someone like Henry for Bruce?)

I really really like Brenton Thwaites for Dick  though, he's awesome! 

(Overdid it with reallys )

  Reveal spoiler

Anyways, they episode did touch on the relationship between Dick and Bruce tho, albeit maybe a bit over the top...I always thought those two did respect each other even when on opposing sides, even when Dick moved to Bludhaven to be on his own, I always got the respect to Bruce and vice versa, except when he refused to wear the Batman cowl, but that's not here or now 

  Reveal spoiler

Fully agree.  I despise Iain Glen to begin with, and I had no idea it was possible to despise him even more, but I truly despise him as Bruce Wayne.  Worst incarnation of Bruce Wayne ever.  Huge disservice to the character.

The idea of a 60 year old Batman on the streets of Gotham and fighting alongside a 15 year old Robin is just ridiculously absurd. Whoever cast Iain Glen as Bruce Wayne should be fired.

Edited February 7, 2021 by blackwing

[Affogato]

Okay, I have the unpopular opinion. I think Iain Glen is doing a great job and I kind of look forward to finding out more about the character when he gets out of Dick's head.

(I'm not hugely judgemental about accents.)

I'm really enjoying Dick using headBruce as a hair shirt and flail, while also using him to focus his thinking constructively. Sounds like the bruce-dick dynamic to me.

Clearly he needed to get a new Robin right away because he is getting older. I think he is aged where he needs to be.