MV007

I know who has the best Ass! Oh wait... maybe this isn't a good idea.

They passed it on because Tony had another set and Hannah/Tony threatened to release the second set to everyone if the tapes weren't passed along. It's one thing to be shamed in front of one person, it's another to be shamed in front of the whole school and community.

Bringing back Hope or Trip makes little sense unless you're looking for a one or two episode fall out. I don't think Mack is going anywhere so sticking him with a kid just isn't going to happen. If anybody on this show has a family it will stay off screen. Otherwise the kid will be an albatross. As for Trip, I know the internet portion of the fandom seems to love him. But I think he's pretty forgettable to any regular viewer of the show that is not obsessed online. My 60+ yr old mother enjoys the show and if 2 months ago, I told her Trip was coming back, she would've said "Who?" And if I then showed her a picture of Trip she would've said "Who?" Meanwhile Ward coming back has far reaching ramifications for all of our characters and is well known to the entire audience. And I don't even know if I think they're bringing Ward back. Just that if they are going to bring someone from the framework he makes the most narrative sense imo.

I agree. I resigned myself to the inevitable the second they gave us cliffhangers like Tyler's weapons cache and Alex's gunshot wound. I was still holding on to the hope that someone would think better of it and not go for the money grab.

It was difficult to judge Clay's social standing. But I don't get the sense that he was a nerd. He wasn't like Tyler (an outcast). Everyone seemed to like him, he just didn't socialize much outside of school. I also think his personality is something that gets appreciated the older you get. I'm sure Clay will have no problems in college.

Terrible Terrible news for me. Not that I care about his recasting on Riverdale. But I am vehemently opposed to this show returning. I think the only acceptable return would be a 2 hour movie wrapping everything up.

I honestly know very little about this sort thing but I don't think the show is trying to portray this Juice company as a Facebook or Snapchat level company. I would think its some regional juice store with some nice buzz.

Lara has been shown to have friends as well. Her brother is a cop. I'm also not sure the cops would do anything inside 24 hours where its clearly a domestic dispute. Not accounting for Axe's billions opening doors for him, I would think in most situations the cops would say come back to us in another 24 hours if she doesn't come home unless you have a real reason why she may have run off permanently.

I disagree with the notion that Hannah dealt with things most kids deal with. Her situation was extreme. She was bullied and raped and involved with a few incidents where I'm sure the guilt ate her up (Jeff's death and Jessica's rape). That was a lot of shit to deal with. Obviously I don't think she should've killed herself but I can understand why someone who dealt with all that would feel hopelessness.

Right. I feel like once he realized that she wasn't going to go to the cops then the ultimate end goal is to help her move on and get on with her life. But that takes years of healing if you ever truly do get on with it. In that moment, his goal should've been to find a way for her to seek further help. I'm assuming he's not a therapist so he could encourage her to talk to one. Or to talk to her parents. Hell, he could've called her parents and told them he just had a very disturbing talk with her. But presenting the situation as you can do one of two things, go to the cops or accept what happened and move on seems like a major no-no.

My biggest fear is that this gets a second season and he and Jessica eventually reconcile.

I thought Mr. Porter was doing ok until he started talking about moving on. I just can't imagine telling a young girl who is opening up for the first time about a sexual assault that she only has two options and that one of them is to just move on.

I feel like Justin's shitty home life is getting him off the hook on these rankings. I don't believe its because he's a good looking bad boy who needs to be saved but the thought has crossed my mind. Regardless, his inaction and silence on Jessica's rape far outweighs whatever rumors Courtney started and her stubbornness to come clean in my opinion. I've got Bryce at 1 , Marcus at 2, Justin at 3 and then everyone else. For me every other action or inaction could be recovered from. But sexual assault is a step up in evil and far more damaging then dealing with an undeserved reputation.

I think all these kids should feel guilty. They did some fucked up shit to Hannah. And I have to wonder if without the tapes if they would've gone on living blissfully unaware that their actions have consequences. I think the majority of them would have. In this case, I think Zach would've felt guilt regardless and this would eat him up either way. But a lot of the kids needed to hear this imo.

I thought the book did a much better job explaining Hannah's state of mind when it came to her inaction regarding Jessica's rape.

Two things. First, this show desperately needs Caleb back full time. Second, I hope the show doesn't actually hook Shelby and Clay up. Its kind of disgusting at this point that she would legitimately fall for two brothers and their father.

I think that was perfectly illustrated in this episode when she pushed Clay away and told him on the tape that she would ruin him. Unfortunately she probably ruined him far worse with this action.

Is it possible we're falling into the same trap that other posters have blamed Hannah for? I've seen multiple people bring up that the one tape for each sin balances them all out equally. When in reality, I would guess her rape and Jessica's rape far outweighed the others in her decision making process. So while I can see what your saying regarding this confident, gorgeous, outgoing girl must surely be able to find people she can rely on, I also think that at some point these things might not matter when you've had such a traumatic experience.

I don't think the point of the show is to tell us Hannah is better then these people. We can all have differing opinions on what kind of person Hannah was. But in the end, she didn't deserve any of the crap she got and for me, thats what this is about. If people really thought about their actions before doing them, especially if the action is mean-spirited then maybe at the very least they'd think twice.

Well, when you put it like that... Oh wait thats the truth. I think these kids were clearly aholes to Hannah. That doesn't make them all terrible terrible people. It means that they engaged in terrible behavior at an age when many people do and are just not mature enough to recognize it as being super destructive. Hence the need for this book and show imo.

We can agree to disagree about Justin. Yes he didn't literally do nothing. But he knew what was happening and he didn't do enough to stop it. Which in my opinion makes him worse then everyone except Bryce and possibly Marcus. Thats my only point.

I don't think thats how everyone sees Clay. I think we're supposed to see that everyone likes Clay. But that he is a bit of an outcast by his own doing. He doesn't socialize despite everyone seemingly liking him. I think he's supposed to be awkward but endearing to his peers.

For me, Justin is right behind Bryce in the pecking order. Maybe tied with Marcus. He chose not to stop Bryce. That is a pretty horrific decision. I can put myself in Alex's shoes and say to myself, maybe I would've done that. Even Courtney, I have no idea what it's like to be gay so I won't condemn someone acting that way over possibly being outed. But Justin? I can't see that. I know he's been screwed by his family situation but there is no excuse for what he did.

I don't think the "rape culture" has anything to do with these characters not wanting to come forward. This is about self-preservation. They are deeply embarrassed by their actions and don't want anyone to know about it. Also, Justin and Jessica have denied it happened throughout the series.

So, I just finished the show and I was a little caught by surprise with Bryce's rape of Hannah. Am I misremembering the scene in the books? I didn't think it played as that explicitly rapey in the book. I remember she cried but she also made it clear that she didn't tell him no and she didn't push back and she didn't make an effort to stop him. Like, I felt like she painted a picture where Bryce was a douche who took advantage of her but that this wasn't necessarily rape. As opposed to the show where there is no ambiguity.