MV007

I can't remember how the tapes started. But are we jumping to conclusions by saying the tapes blame the kids for her suicide? I can't remember if Hannah explicitly says something like that. Or is it more, this is the story of how I got here. These are the shitty things that happened to me that brought me to this dark place?

This explains the Isabelle I saw at the beginning of the series and part of the reason why I stopped watching.

This show is baffling to me. At the end of the day, I probably bounced early on because I think the actress who plays Isabelle is atrocious and Isabelle is my favorite character. But I tend to check in every now and again because I really did enjoy the books, but wow. We're half way through a second season and Clary/Simon is still a thing? I understand they probably want to keep Jace/Clary apart for a long period of time because this is a TV show but tying Simon up with Clary really slows down any potential arc with Isabelle. And really that is one of the three most important relationships in the books. It seems like thats a really slow burn on the show.

I don't think Graffiti being there for plot reasons is all that egregious. In the end everything is there for plot. They're telling a story after all. And graffiti in a high school bathroom as absolutely common place. And I think this was just further proof of how terrible this administration is that they let it get that out of control. I didn't have a hard time believing that was possible.

I'm not interested in picking apart Nora's story to find some logical inconsistency to prove she's lying. I believe her. I want to the believe her and thus I do. Such is life.

I don't think she's Elliot from Mr. Robot but this is definitely her truth

Not sure thats being fair so much as the exception proving the rule. Just think that the two most prominent nurses you could think of were around for what a total of 4 episodes? And were played for a joke or as the worst foil ever for MerDer

But why are they all doctors? Why has the show consistently ignored nurses?

I'm sure there is and I have no problem with them exploring that. My only issue is when it's all encompassing as it appears to be with Hunt.

I thought Riggs initial reaction was one of disbelief and shock. And once he realized it was really happening he became happy. On the other hand, I can buy Hunt's initial reaction as shock but then he goes into this self-blame thing and there was never really a moment where I remember him being happy she's alive. At least not in any way beyond being cursory. And honestly, it didn't really jump out of me until we saw Riggs and I started to think to myself, why the eff was Hunt not happier?

This is my problem too. And I love these two together but everything is just happening way too fast for me.

I thought this was a really good episode if you don't really care about Jackson and his romantic entanglements. That's me. I can easily dismiss those scenes because I don't care. Now, thats how I have always felt about Stephanie too. I've never cared about her character. But I thought Jerrika was really great tonight. I don't know if it was her performance or the fact that she was saving Chloe, the worlds greatest DJ but I was thoroughly engaged in her story line for the first time. I also thought The actor who plays Riggs gave a great performance in that scene where he first finds out she's alive and even when he's on cloud nine he was great. It seemed real to me. As opposed to Hunt's reaction which seemed to be all about him and I can't even tell if he wants her to be alive.

My recommendation would be to read the book then watch the show. I found myself really looking forward to seeing how the relationships and characters expanded outside the few hundred pages of the book. If you love reading then I would recommend the book because it's good. But I thought the TV show was really well done so I don't think you're missing too much.

I think if you knock over a stop sign you should call the police immediately. It's a pretty shitty thing to do to knock one over and just leave. Even if you don't contemplate someone dying, you definitely can foresee an accident which could cause serious damage to the cars and varying degrees of injuries.

I don't know the answers either. I just wonder if you go down the road of showing mental illness then will that be viewed as the overriding factor for Hannah's suicide? It's very easy to dismiss things when you can blame brain chemistry. For example, I think a large portion of the intended demographic would say oh, that was just boys being boys, and she only killed herself because she was mentally unstable. I'm obviously not talking incidents at the end of the show. But more, the Alex, Tyler, Marcus incidents. They may be dismissed. I was also speaking more to the intention of the author of the book. There wasn't a lot of mental health talk in the book but it was hinted at ever so slightly. And I think that was intentional. I'm not saying it's not possible to show both but I don't think it was the author's intention to go down that road.

That seems like a very delicate tight rope to walk. I think the main purpose of the show is to shine a light on how we treat other people and the effect our seemingly small or innocuous or sometimes mean actions can have on another person. If you start showing Hannah as erratic or bitchy or something else then it could lead someone to believe that she deserved some of what she got. Honest question, does everyone who commits suicide suffer from a debilitating mental illness? Aside from say depression?

I really loved this episode up until the final scene where Chuck and Wendy are back together. That was kind of annoying. Wendy is way too good for anyone on this show never mind the the sleazeball she's married too. Also, Chuck and George have a nice chemistry and I'd love to see her own him. One thing that I really love is that no matter what happens between Axe and Chuck, Wendy seems to come out ahead. Getting in on the short and reaping those rewards is sweet justice while both of those two take themselves down.

I have to be honest, that first fake out with Alex scared the shit out of me. I was about to stop watching the show completely. Thankfully it ended without him doing anything. And I know the actress who plays Jo was pregnant in real life but the show has done a shit job with keeping her involved on any kind of level. It's been obvious for awhile that we would go down this ex rabbit hole so they should've used the few scenes the actress was available for to further that storyline or build it up somehow. On the contrary it seems like she was used for throwaway crap and the one scene where she lets Deluca down easy.

I think a lot of people felt sympathy for Zach in that moment. I certainly did. But there is a difference between feeling sympathy for Zach in that moment and then giving him a pass for taking out her compliments from the compliment bag. Essentially, he was rejected. It was painful to watch that happen to someone who was seemingly sincere. But that doesn't mean he should retaliate and do something painful in return. He knew what he was doing. She made him feel bad and he didn't want her to feel any better. Nevermind that he eventually found out she was in deep deep pain and did nothing about it.

I don't need Clay to have a romantic interest but I wonder if Jessica could ever be a possibility. She deserves a good guy imo. And I think those are the two best kid actors whose characters are still alive. I think the Skye character and the moment at the end played far better in the book.

That's true. I forgot about that line from Clay. I will also say that this show has made me think back to my high school days and some of the reputations of some girls in my class. I can specifically remember one or two girls having just terribly slutty reputations and I just kind of believed it. I never thought about it too much and it was just kind of accepted. I can't come up with any excuses for believing it. And I don't know that they weren't true but I wish I now had the perspective I do now. And I could tell my younger self that these girls weren't what their reputations said they were. I also couldn't say for certain that a show like this would necessarily open up my eyes at that time. I think as an adult I am just much more self-reflective.

I think the issue is that this show wants to be taken seriously. It's not relying on some hot thirty something sexing up the 17 yr old landscaper.

I think this show and the young cast benefited greatly from Clay and Hannah being the lead characters. I thought all of the actors did a great job but I'm not sure how many of them could carry having much more screen time. I think the girl who played Jessica could carry more but I'm not sure about anyone else. I also agree with the notion that TPTB will try their hardest to keep Katherine Langford involved. But it will probably be to the show's detriment. I've never done this with a show I liked but I'm seriously considering not giving it a chance because if Hannah is involved, I think it will take away from the weight of the first season.

Not having Caleb on this show permanently continues to baffle me. I'll probably stick with the show through this season but if there is no Caleb next season then I'm probably out. If it even comes back. The Clay/Shelby thing continues to annoy the shit out of me. It's beyond disgusting that she would continue to go after the Haas men. Nevermind that I'm not even sure why these two would even like each other. Aside from making some good looking Hitler approved aryan babies

I don't know you so please don't take this the wrong way. Is it possible a kid would tell their parent that the teens in this show aren't realistic because they don't want their parents to see how truly terrible some kids can be?