T Summer

Yes outside the funeral home in s2 is what I meant when he saw them and she saw them too and and asked "friends of yours?" Then he saw them when he walked her out at Marguerite's. Started thinking about Shadow's mom and whether she could be Native American and then thinking about their ages and trying to figure out what the connection is. I really don't recall if those are the only times he saw the firey orbs? Driving along in her vehicle in s2 Sam BlackCrow mentioned her dual nature and the Moon / silver coin Zorya lady said something to Shadow about following two paths, his nature being half in shadow half in light. That he's intrigued with Wednesday's war of the gods BS and at the same time he says he want to break free... words to that effect. I can't remember now if he's seen them other times?

I'm rewatching earlier episodes and it's really bothering me that when Shadow sees his wife Laura back from the dead and they're talking there is absolutely no mention of her saving him from being lynched by leaping up and breaking the rope he's hanging from, then using her super strength to dispatch 6 or 8 guys. Shadow talks about his being lynched to Wednesday and Wednesday mentions the marks on Shadow's neck.

Does anyone know what the flurry of little orbs of light that Shadow sometimes sees are? In the episode from s2 where Sam BlackCrow gives him a ride back to Cairo, he sees them when she drops him off and she sees them too, and asks "friends of yours?" Didn't he see them outside Marguerite's when he was saying goodbye to her after dinner? Now I'm trying to remember the other times he saw them? In the convo in Sam Blackcrow's truck she said something about her dual nature and I would almost be asking if she could be his twin (obviously not identical), except she's younger. [the actress who plays Sam BlackCrow is 12 years younger than the actor who plays Shadow Moon]

That's one of the things I'm wondering. Didn't he also see a peacock on a magazine cover, and peacock pictures in the hall way on the way into Bilquis' place and then once inside he noticed those peacock feathers with what looked like metal claws attached? They may have even been near the blood on the floor... have to rewatch that episode to be sure.

^This, I agree with wholeheartedly.

Neither have I been able to find confirmation. I understand that spoilers belong on the media or book threads and I'm not sure if pure speculation or chat about future episodes is the same and needs to be kept off episode threads, but to be safe I'm going to speculate about the future behind a spoiler tag. I have not read the book.

Thank you again. That would indeed be a long life! I guess I took it to mean in human terms, aging along the way and all. Not necessarily so, I guess.as things sure are different in the world of American Gods.

Yes, thank you. I caught it when I watched the second time which made me feel better. Do you (or anyone) think the proprietor of the hotel Toni looking the same age as she did in the opening vignette from 1951 holds any significance? Is she a god? The young man she hid in the vignette said he'd been looking for a new temple for over a hundred years then he said I am Tu Er Shen the rabbit god, telling the story in the third person of how he became a god and protector of homosexual love. Toni seemed to disbelieve him and wonder if he hit his head too hard, until he proclaimed her establishment a temple and blew butterfly kisses that reassembled as a peacock marquee.

I'm going to watch it again and may experience it differently, but I didn't like this episode especially as the 8th out of a series of 10. I liked it because Laura Moon getting Odin's spear figured prominantly, but what else was there, really? I'd already had enough of Odin and Tyr and as you stated Lamatilda, the Yohan coming at Tyr and Tyr yelling his name does not figure if Tyr was the one on the killing spree. I don't think Shadow is done with Marguerite, he's doing something FOR her, as I stated in my post upthread. Yes, just rewound and it's in the previews. Sam BlackCrow telling Shadow if he (Sandy, Marguerite's older son) was with his Dad in Fla., she would have heard from him. She also said Marguerite's son leaving and going to his Dad's really broke her heart. Even I don't think Laura and Shadow will be reuniting, My whole point about Laura and Sweeney not being some epic romance came down to where Sweeney's heart was wide open for Laura, hers already belonged to another. In a way that is her habit she's not thinking she destroyed her marriage to Shadow, but rather that Wednesday did. Wednesday stole him away, and this last part is likely 100% true... that Wednesday means him no good. If he gets his battle, unlike in tonight's one on one, I doubt his focus will be on whether Shadow is in danger. As a matter of fact I'm worried when this battle comes, our favorite pairings will be on opposing sides. If it leaves off that way, I'm going to be big mad! I don't like her alliance with Mr World / The New Gods. If Laura had turned all those feelings inward, she'd be moping somewhere depressed. Instead she's marrying those feelings to an action and now has a fire in her belly to do the seemingly impossible, kill Wednesday. It's this singleness of purpose and not having grieved her marriage properly that hasn't left her open to seeing how Sweeney's feelings changed over their time spent together, much less questioning whether she returned those feelings, the way I see it. I do wonder why she keeps saying she got him killed though. Is that just because he took the assignment to kill Laura from Wednesday? During this downtime trying to find the spear she's seemingly struggling with all these questions. Thinking of the way she got to the other Leprechaun and his story he relayed, why would Wednesday have asked him to kill Laura Moon when he had one so heavily indebted to him already in his pocket? I remember Sweeney saying I don't do his (Wednesday's) bidding because I want to, I do it because I f'ing owe him. Liam said Wednesday stole his lucky coin from him, so that indicates he had no other leverage over him.

Marguerite's son Sandy's whereabouts are unknown. Sam Blackcrow said something about it to Shadow the night she was at her sister's for dinner and he walked her out and they talked. If he was in Jacksonville he'd have been in touch or she'd know it? something like that. When Shadow was talking to Marguerite handing her a homemade CD that was in the car he rented earlier in the season to get to Chicago(her son older Sandy's car), he then asked what the boy was studying? and she was super abrupt and didn't answer him and went off saying if you need me, you know where to find me. As for your first point, YES! Salim being an observant Muslim (for most of the series) who doesn't think God discriminates where love is concerned, doesn't preclude him from getting to know someone before bedding them. I'm sure every gay man doesn't do that. ...and what's up with not even asking the man's name?

One thing I'm a little unclear on is when they showed the vignettes of Mad Sweeney traveling with his wife and child and when he was imprisoned with Essie Mcgowan and when he said he was a king, those were all those things the character we know lived through? or were they past lives? When Brigette asked are you sure that's the only reason you want to find this Leprechaun? Laura goes Ew, no revenge is the only itch I got to scratch (paraphrasing). In purgatory when a lady asked a question like that, Laura reacted similarly. When she had potion in hand she was all where the f' am I going to find that (meaning the missing ingredient)? It didn't even occur to her Sweeney loved her, much less her returning th`ose feelings. That was what, the last time they were together? Bent on killing Wednesday as she was, I think she would have extracted the drops of blood from him herself, if she even suspected they'd do the trick. I know I know, it's all on a subconscious level for her at that point. That is why I don't think of it as some epic romance that greatly eclipses her proclaimed love for Shadow. That plus one truth that pretty much affects everyone eventually... just because you love someone doesn't mean they have to love you back. I trimmed a few things from my post on the e6 thread where we discussed this. One because I thought it was enough already(on my part) and and the second thing I prefaced by saying it was a bit silly and trite... 1. One reason I see it the way I do is her marriage to Shadow predates her budding whatever with Sweeney. I get that the writers are showing not exactly a love/hate but maybe need/hate thing turning into something else. Laura's starting to question if she laments Sweeney's death for more reasons than just that he could turn over the spear. That, and what Ibis and Salim have tried to prod her into realizing; the profoundness of her having been loved by him and resurrected for real this time, by that love. Thoughts + feelings of who Sweeney was to her are creeping up on her while still laser focused on killing Wednesday and avenging her death and (what she perceives as) the ruining of her marriage. In the case of Shadow, Laura coming back to save him from peril with no thought to her own well being was the result of her will to do so plus the coin's magic they way I see it. Not something one would or could do to right a wrong or make amends. Shadow has a whole parent who mouths the words you're my son and he pulls him in when he needs him for a con or his stupid battle and doesn't lift a finger when he's troubled or even in physical danger. Different kind of love, parental vs romantic love but still... Laura Moon would do anything to save Shadow even when it seems doubtful she'll ever get her happy ending with him. Loving feelings, caring about someone's well being, desire and willingness to put the other person first practically defines love the way I think of it... if love could ever be defined. Cynical jaded people like Laura Moon love, too. 2. IDK if you've ever been to New Orleans, but I wouldn't trust what happened one night there to define anyone's reality. lol

Interesting you mention reddit. I never go there but on 2 seperate evenings I was looking for info on the song Laura kept hearing in pergatory, Schweiger's Requiem of Baldr because I couldn't find a version to listen to anywhere and landed there. The first time I was shocked by how much hate was being expressed toward Laura Moon and then yesterday (I think?) there were posts questioning "why so much airtime for Bilquis? ... the Bilquis scenes are boring" terrible place! I'm never going back. Though I did enjoy Laura and Sweeney's scenes together, I just do not think of them as having some great romance for all the reasons I stated over on the e 6 thread. I think she had just enough affection or whatever for him to spare him the same fate she wishes upon Wednesday, being he actually caused her accident + death albeit on Wednesday's orders. Her wanting to end Wednesday so badly is based on him being responsible for ruining her marriage to Shadow and stealing him away. Plus she feels Wednesday is going to harm Shadow getting him involved in his BS. That's how it came across to me watching it anyway. Even as she reflects on Sweeney's love for her and the miracle it brought about with her being back among the living, this time fully alive, I don't see it replacing the love she felt for Shadow. Mad Sweeney may have been amusing to watch at times, but what was there to fall in love with, really ? How many times did he call her 'the c word' ? When we meet him he's pretty much a drunken brawler working for an arrogant a-hole he's indebted to. To me all the romanticized versions of Sweeney are in the glimpses ofhis past lives. He teased Laura Moon about smelling dead, attracting flies and being maggoty in front of Shadow Moon. If she had feelings for him I think they'd be just beginning to seep into her consciousness. Her mind has been and continues to be on avenging her death and loss of Shadow by skewering Wednesday. I could have it wrong in that I see it fundamentally different from the way you do, and they may have it play out as some great romance tragically snuffed out before it could be fully realized. Time will tell.

It's getting pretty late in the season with ep 8 about to air and all. Shouldn't we have heard something about if there will be more? (or have I missed it?)

OK, you convinced me! I was only going by when we were awaiting the start of the new season and discussing the 3 new additions I know I read a few posts by people who'd watched interviews with the actor who plays Mad Sweeney saying he said no, he's not returning. I suppose anything is possible, including having Pablo Schriever really downplay it if the writers are planning a big surprise at the end. Ohhhho. I'm going to have to go rewatch s2 e7!

As you stated Lamatilda I totally don't get the cryptic language of the Midwife to Bilquis "you must find the other". WTH? The only other she'd know about is a twin, wouldn't she just say that? And I agree with the second part that Shadow and Laura have been depicted as moving farther and farther apart (I don't like it, but I see it. lol) Where exactly do you suppose one takes a meeting with the Technical Gods? I wondered why Laura Moon told Mr World to eat a dick, but then I started thinking why would she trust him or go anywhere with him in the first place? No doubt Shadow would have mentioned to her that Technical Boy had him lynched? And I don't remember exactly what subdued the Technical Gods at Easter's house in s 1, but it does seem they were up to no good. Plus she killed one of their own! The other thing is now that Laura Moon no longer has super strength why doesn't anyone: Shadow, Mr Ibis, Salim or even Mr World ask her why she imagines she's going to get anywhere near a thousand year old god (with blackbird messengers, yet) and slay him? Re: the paragraph about Sweeney being depicted as a debased version of the sun god Lugh. I looked him up and I still don't really understand much more than before. When Shadow's stargazing lady friend, what was her name? Anyway, back when she was gave him "the moon" that silver coin, she said something about him already having been given the sun and letting it slip through his hands. I took it to mean Sweeney's coin he "gave" Laura. It's odd they didn't make it more clear exactly who and what Sweeney was if there was more to it. Just a Leprechaun who lamented this land has no time for magic, no place for faeries and such folk? He said he had been a king? Brigette said he had God energy? That coin must have carried powerful magic to allow Laura to escape death and come back to earth and carry out her mission to watch over and protect Shadow! Yet Sweeney when alive had to do Wednesday's bidding because he was indebted to him? It's all rather puzzling. Despite the fact that he kept saying you owe me a battle Grimnor, it doesn't appear Mad Sweeney is coming back.

It's not that I find Shadow dickish, but I must say I don't understand the Shadow / Marguerite thing. His character has been hard to get a sense of in the past couple of seasons, though this year the writers have done more to show though capable of working minor cons, he's a decent friendly guy who tries to do the right thing by the people in his life. I've never seen him as someone so insecure and messed up he'd go after a woman who was as nasty to him as Marguerite was in the beginning. I don't think he'd see it as some sort of challenge, those people tend to be unwell.. we'll say the rifle to the head was understandable when he was trying to get in the house when his apt. lock was jammed, however... asked her name, she said "property manager works" she made him sleep in an apartment without heat in winter for no reason, the heat worked just fine. she charged him $150 extra to get her car he was already paying $100 to rent, cleaned up. she also threw the keys at him! She was inappropriately cold and rude to him. When he got back from Chicago with her car (actually her son Sandy's car) she somewhat apologized and said seems we got off on the wrong foot. It was then she fired up the heat which worked just fine, she'd had it turned off to save money!Then while handing her a homemade CD from the car he thought her son might like back Shadow was asking about what he was studying and again she doesn't answer and leaves with if you need something you know where to find me. Like she couldn't sustain 5 minutes of civility. Next thing we know while off on the business of trying to save Bilquis and helping out Dad, there's Shadow calling Marguerite and checking in like one would do with a significant other. That's quite a transition that occurred! Now their skating date ends in hot tub sex? How did we get here? *on that recording Marguerite reminded Sandy to pick up Leon. Who is Leon?

First off, I so enjoy reading others' viewpoints even the ones I don't completely share! Maybe especially those. I just wrote a whole long thing on the ep 7 thread about how much it bugs me that Laura doesn't feel the need to keep Sweeney's coin close to her, as in on her person. Whether wanting to keep the only possession of someone you loved and lost close... ...or on the basis of it's magical nature. It, infused with Laura's will let her escape death and going into nothingness! So she could go on with her purpose of warning and protecting Shadow from Wednesday as well as trying to get him back. Even after it appeared Shadow would most likely never get back with Laura she said she'd always protect him and watch out for him. Also, the coin was powerful enough to change Sweeney's fate when he gave it away by mistake, so how is she not even curious to see what it would do for hers? especially when she's preparing to go up against a thousand year old god and try and slay him? anyway, I guess I've beaten that horse dead. dead. The scene in season 1 where the ice cream truck overturned and Laura / Dead Wife was laying in the road in pieces, coin visable where her torso was split open left me with little doubt that Sweeney loved her, after he picked her up and put her pieces back together. Also in New Orleans when Baron Samedi said the potion needed 2 drops of the blood of someone who loved her to complete it the writers certainly got it across whose blood it would be, even if not the when and how of it. I've tried to hold out hope she might get her desire fulfilled to get back with Shadow (despite much evidence to the contrary that it would ever happen), because of the extent it appeared she'd have to really love him to want to to always keep him(his light) in sight, protect him and get him out from Wednesday's evil clutches with practically no thought to her own troubles (like coming apart at the seams) or the danger she was in. She already knew Wednesday is a god that had her smited. Wednesday went blithley on about his business when Mr. Town was torturing Shadow Moon on the train, and he's dude's FATHER. To quote that guy in the movie Ray "That's cold." It's for this reason I don't view Laura as not knowing what love is. Anyone can proclaim their love and even feel romantic loving feelings all bound up with strong desire but thinking of someone else first and more importantly doing for someone one else with no regard for one's own well being is a whole other level IMHO. When she appeared on the stool next to him in the pasty shop and Shadow recognized her voice, she seemed to almost blush and be coy and self aware which seemed the opposite of platonic to me. When they hugged it seemed like she had been aching for that for the longest time. It seemed like the first moment Shadow's mind wasn't necessarily on her betrayal of him with his best friend. I'm not contesting anything about your view... just stating how it came across to me watching it. ...but I must say it confused me when she said Shadow acts like xyz when he's in love, to Marguerite. That was practically like casting him off to another. WTF? That seemed very out of character. I didn't think about whether Laura loved Sweeney until she learned from Shadow "Sweeney died last night" as she tried to appear unmoved and then last thing as she carried his body off in search of a miracle from the Baron. Before that it came across as just enough affection or understanding or whatever to spare him the same blind rage she views Wednesday with, the being bent on his destruction to where she can think of little else. ...but romantic love? IDK.

As I never watch with captioning on I kept thinking Odin was being referred to as the "Old Father". I Googled an apparently they're saying All Father? "Odin, the one-eyed Norse god of war and the battlefield was revered by Berserkers, frenzied Viking warriors who fought ferociously without armor and felt no wounds. But Odin was a complex character who also had domain over wisdom and poetry. Norse mythology, also called Teutonic mythology, consists of the myths and legends of Scandinaviaand Germany. The foremost god in the Norse pantheon, Odin was father to many of the Aesir (Norse race of gods), including Thor and Balder, and a father-figure to others such as Loki. For this reason, Odin was often known as “Allfather.” you can read more here, it also references the spear and the ravens who bring him news: https://www.worldbook.com/behind-the-headlines/Mythic-Monday-Odin-the-Allfather

Now I'm going to have to go watch this damn thing again! When he was looking down and saw that gold elephant head ... I thought Ganesh (only because I did not know the word Ganapati) anyway, then he sees that coin roll over by the tire of the car on the ice. I remember wondering why he didn't go over and try to pick it up? You know to see if it was real or he was seeing things. Did I miss that?

hnygrl, Forgive me if I'm being obtuse, I haven't slept more than an hour. What is the car reveal? Are you suggesting it was Shadow's twin in the car with Tyr? or something different? I wondered that at first, but then noted he was dressed and groomed the same way we've seen Shadow this season.So IDK?

Thank you! How could I forget Leonard Cohen? just because he's no longer with us. I was wondering if these were new songs.

Yes, I too am confused by what I just watched. Going to watch again. Previouslies suggest Wednesday is looking for Yohan (leader of Blooddeath)? A burning body falls to ground and they show a Blooddeath featuring Mr. Wednesday poster and flash to a man being killed and engulfed in fire. I first thought it was Yohan, but apparently not, as later on on the way into the slaughterhouse Wednesday stated he was looking for Yohan and might just kill him. Looks like Laura agreed too quickly to Mr. World's terms. Laura Moon comes back from the dead to keep Shadow from obliviously falling into Wednesday's clutches, to warn Shadow Wednesday means him no good. Yet she nonshalantly accepts the terms if you fail to kill Wednesday, you will die and your friends will die. Also, why did Salim ask for only 24 hours of protection for Laura afterwards? I didn't get that. What exactly draws Shadow to Marguerite? She was cold and nasty to him in the beginning. She relaxes enough to behave somewhat like a normal human being and Shadow is willing to give Laura the brush off and start something with her, when he's still feeling out this new town and not sure how long he'll stay. I don't get that either. The only one I could have forgiven Shadow for falling under the spell of is Bilquist.... because Bilquist! When Wednesday is explaining to Shadow Cordelia's showing up mid freakout, he said lately someone has taken to slaughtering my followers. So it seems the plummeting burning body was a follower. The old woman Bilquist talks to reveals things about Shadow Moon as she midwifed him into this world. She tells Bilquist "only you have the power to find the other. Shadow Moon is only one half. He can not lead the people, the we... alone. You must find the other. If you do not, the people can never come together and these will be our last days." I couldn't read what was on the paper on the corpse in the Dentist's chair? [On the rewatch: Odin, come and find me at the Wolf Den with the son you hold most dear] Before we saw that, Tyr was startled by a snarling fiend he addressed as Yohan? [ETA: Was the corpse in the dentist's chair Yohan? dispatched by Tyr?] Right after, it looked like Shadow riding in the car Tyr was driving. What was up with that? Oh... It was Yohan who was doing the slaughtering! So likely he killed his band mates a few episodes back, too? I guess that didn't register at first because we were told Marilyn Manson was being written out of the show, so I wasn't checking for him in any more episodes. That could be why they didn't show the singer's face, only a flash of some inhuman fiend on a rampage. Funniest line of the episode for me was Cordelia: "partly cloudy with a chance of human remains". Who is this singing on the soundtracks to several episodes that sounds like Tom Waites light?

No need to apologize for the lengthy posts! I for one am very interested to read other people's perspective, particularly on Laura Moon's trajectory. It's one of the most enjoyable elements of the series for me. If it weren't for that and every single second Bilquist is on screen, I don't think I'd still be watching. I've wondered, did Laura love Sweeney? I don't necessarily think if Laura Moon were to see him alive when she was blasted back to earth and found herself in the tomb... she'd hug him the way she hugged Shadow. I don't think if she saw Sweeney it would have deterred her for more than a few moments from going after Wednesday who she perceives as having ruined her relationship with Shadow. She'd just be making sure he could bring the sword from his hoard. On the other hand we were shown at least one scene where they'd been alive and in each other's orbit before. I'm remembering the jail scene where they were talking to each other through the bars. Stopped right here to rewatch the episode s1 e7, A Prayer For Mad Sweeney. Basically in the telling of Essie McGowan's story (as written by Ibis) it is she who brings a certain Leprechaun and former King to the new world. Essie McGowan believed in all kinds of magical creatures, especially Leprechauns. She kept belief in them alive through her storytelling over her lifetime and though she hadn't ever seen one, she never stopped leaving them offerings of cream and bread and at one point a gold coin she'd been given by a lover. Days before her death sitting on the porch of the farm she'd inherited from her husband, Mad Sweeney walked up and said it was she who brought him here. She and a few others like her. He's doing tricks with his gold coin and lamenting this land has no time for magic; no place for faeries and such folk. That's a short version, but they acknowledge the good they'd done for one another. She'd been an indentured servant and from England to the new world and back and forth again and in trouble for thieving (at one point almost executed) and had to survive doing sexual favors before marrying and ultimately becoming the proprietor of the farm. Getting back to this juncture: When Ibis and Salim talked about Sweeney's love for her ultimately facilitating her journey back to life by completing Baron Samedi's potion, IDK if it was romantic love she was feeling like she feels for Shadow? Maybe more gratitude and regret that the opportunity to express it was gone forever? Maybe not even that. I keep remembering Sweeney calling her the c-word over and over and IIRC it was he who caused the car accident (and possibly Shadow being caught executing Laura's perfect plan to grift the casino and being put in jail), all on Wednesday's orders. She's still driven by the rage she feels for Wednesday having had her killed and ruining her marriage, so IDK if she feels that much forgiveness for Sweeney just because he was fulfilling a debt he owed Wednesday when he acted. I forget which episode it was, possibly also in season one where Laura Moon expressed her disillusionment with life when one gets past their formative years and learns there is no Santa Claws, no Easter Bunny and no farm where old dogs go? She may not be able to slay Wednesday in the literal sense as a regular girl back among the living, but isn't it legions of non-beleivers like her that threaten The Old Gods right out of existence?

Reading your post and remarks about Laura and Shadow made me think, I guess Laura Moon's super strength went with her back from the dead (but not really alive) status? So how is this hundred pound girl planning on killing Wednesday? The only one she has on her teem is another mere mortal, Salim. An aside: Most exciting scene to date for me was in S2 when Bilquist said to Laura Moon about her bloodlust for Wednesday, you better bring power when you go against that one. Laura said you seem pretty powerful, do you want to help me [kill him]? Bilquist said Thank you for the offer, it is a very tempting one. It ended with Bilquist saying I know how to find you. Most interested I've been in the whole series. Second thought whirling around in my head... how does she just let that gold coin that used to be inside her keeping her here "alive" back on earth connected to Shadow (she could always see his light), just sit in a cardboard box? A Leprechaun who used to be a king's coin? I'd keep it on my person. I think Laura was only too happy to take any opportunity to see and talk to Shadow, he being the only one she could ask about his whereabouts... definetely not a fuck you, IMO. Once again, I hated the way Shadow threw her off when Marguerite was coming through the door. Their embrace seemed so sweet before that. After she asked Ibis, IDK who that leaves that might know where Wednesday is? Bilquist knows how to reach Laura Moon but I doubt that it works both ways.

It looked to me like after agreeing to leave the retreat with Wednesday Demeter said her goodbyes to her friends then went outside and changed form while he watched from inside. IDK of course, but I doubt she's dead and can't reform and come back if she wants to. Even though I reacted to Tennisgurl's spoiler above, I haven't read the book so I'm guessing. IDK what the different gods' (and godesses) capabilities are.