T Summer

I agree the writing is crap. I didn't see Helen being hostile to Priya, she just seemed overwhelmed by the events unfolding and she did smile and say thank you to her. You many have interpreted the scene different;y Scoobie Doobs which does happen. I'm just glad they finally got Priya and baby Eddie together! As I think we've all been shouting at our TV's for weeks... What about Priya? My hat is off to Maura Tierny continuing to act this crap script at the same level where she began five years ago. It has to be a challenge! I agree wholeheartedly about this different generation malarkey that Eden was spewing and I was shocked to find this overblown character Busy Phillips was a real person! I've managed to avoid coming across her on the internet so far. Does anyone understand why cell phone coverage was affected by the fires? All the running around to see that family members were ok was necessary, because they couldn't be reached, yet everyone was seeing the V.F. article and the subsequent media alerts online? So does that mean the internet was unaffected? Couldn't they all FaceTime on their Macs? I'm confused.

I'm not wild about extracting fragments out of whole posts, but please forgive me this time, because this is hilarious StormyWeather!

I couldn't recall where I'd read this, so I Googled and apparently American Gods will be back. No date yet, probably spring 2020. Yay, More Dead Wife and Mad Sweeney! Yes, he's dead but apparently it's not serious because he's listed on IMBD as being on the show in 2020.

A few people have asked about Martin. So for those of you who can't get enough of every single Solloway kid, charmers that they are... He was at Vik's funeral s5 ep1 pt1. He was openly hostile to Noah when he approached offering a ride to the grave site, ...and munchies. What the heck was with that? Martin said to Janelle: We're waiting for our mom, then we're going over to the grave site to bury him Then he said to Noah: Look dad, why don't you just head back. We'll see you at the house.

I know many here are sick of seeing Noah shunned and blamed but I didn't mind. I actually really liked this episode. Who gave Sierra a brain? Maybe her postpardom depression gave her brain fog and it suddenly lifted. We know Eden acting afraid of Noah at the bookstore last week was total BS, but to truly know if Noah pressured her into anything we'd have to have seen her POV contrasted with Noah's back then. I'm going with No, because she was overbearing and intrusive to the point of ridiculousness. These writers can't do subtlety to save their souls. He was ready to get a room with Eden at the producer's party though (confirmed in the therapy session with Marilyn), before the sight of his own daughter freaked him out. I didn't see orgies going on there, but when the sight of two young women making out caught his eye it looked like it could've even been Eden before the one girl turned her head revealing herself to be Whitney! Hearing Audrey's POV she 100% described what her professor did. Noah shouldn't have taken a teaching position if he hadn't worked through his own trauma over having been incarcerated. It isn't right to invalidate a student's writing aspirations, just because HE thinks a young college age woman wouldn't have anything to say that he would want to read or that would rise to the level of serious literature to him. Wasn't he lamenting being branded a pulp novelist? That's why she was studying literature and creative writing in school, as Noah did decades prior. Didn't hear him say anything like that to any of his male students. Quite the opposite. I think of the lengths he went to to draw Anton out and get him engaged. Everything Audrey said Whitney 100% got and had experienced on the way to the freaking plane, yet! Treem and team make their points with all the subtlety of an anvil to the head, as has been pointed out again and again on this board. She spared poor Whit the part where he not only put a scene that could be interpreted as rape in his book, but he discussed it with students saying a woman need not consent to sex to enjoy it. The sex with the student teacher was an abuse of power, that one he admitted to. In the s2 ep where we see him in the rubber room he's with a few other women who possibly are students; for sure they were half his age. In reality no real person would be this one dimensional and never ever grow, but that's how Noah is written. He can even speak the words to Whitney he's trying to protect her from men like him and go right on checking for women his daughter's age. Just as Furcat could never get over on someone his own age, Noah continually makes use of the same dynamic; his being a skilled practiced liar and manipulator vs their inexperience. Also, Noah never ever admits to the truth "this isn't turning into some kind of me too story, is it?" until he's completely boxed in and can do nothing else. He told Ariel he examined why he does what he does in the book Jack Hunter, yet he hasn't changed one iota. His comments like the one to the V.F. writer "come on you're an intelligent woman" revealed that. I don't think Noah is a rapist, but he is a self-centered user who fundamentally doesn't respect women. Throw in emotional tyrant too. I'm sick of Noah blaming Helen for him going to jail! 1.That night Helen said she couldn't drive because she'd had too much to drink and Noah insisted 2. Alison pushed Scotty into the road 3. Noah picked then to touch Helen's arm and look into her eyes while she was driving 4. Helen paid for a whole defense lawyer but Noah never listens to anyone. Even though Helen shouldn't have driven, I'd say a large share of the responsibility was his and some was Alison's too. When Helen blurted out I killed Scott Lockheart! to Vik. Well, that wasn't the whole truth. He continues to use this I went to jail for a crime I didn't commit line with Helen even now. (Plus he never told Helen of Alison's involvement, she had to learn it from her). ...and now he blames Helen drinking and getting him drunk for Eden ending up in his room? What a loathsome individual. He can be all that and still care about his own offspring, though. Why did Trevor and Stacy's phones go to voice mail, not allowing Helen or Noah to reach them? Nothing in this ep has warmed me the forshadowed Noah / Helen reunion. Run Helen!

I do! thanks. I can't believe I'm just learning this now! (thanks to you, Misfit) I incorrectly thought that new episodes didn't go up on on-demand until after they'd been broadcast on Showtime.

I haven't seen ep9 yet. I asked on the ep8 thread if anyone knows how one can watch the new ep b4 it's broadcast on Showtime. I went to the Showtime website and I didn't see how, of course it won't let me log in either. Yes, I saw the photo on page one of this thread of Noah in age accelerated make up with the actress who plays Whitney. It's interesting that E.J. will be back on ep11. [ and why is the series 11 episodes? seems odd] I would love to find out E.J is someone other than Eddie James, but it seems highly unlikely.

As above, per IMBD Joanie will be in ep9, 10 +11 Sierra and Sasha are only listed on IMBD for one more appearance each, ep9 Eden Riegel will appear in ep9. doesn't say who she will play Wyatt Hinz ep9 Bro Alex J. Joseph ep9 Bro # 1 Shaw Jones ep9 traffic cop McCristol Harris ep9 Midwestern guy Eden will be in ep9 Colin will be in ep9+10 Donal Lardner Ward appears in ep10 as Firefighter Dan Lizzie Prestel will play Suzie in ep10 Synopsis of ep10 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9255724/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_2 Janelle will be back in ep9+11 E.J. will be in ep11 Kate Greer plays Alina Murphy in ep11 Geofry Arend will play Leif Devland in ep 11 as he did in ep5. Sierra's director on Madame Bovary. If he's coming back in ep 11 it could be a mistake on IMBD that Sierra is done after ep9 ? synopsis of ep11 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10438246/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_i66 There may be other mistakes because Furcat is in the ep9 promo and his last ep is listed on IMBD as ep4. Also they don't list any more appearances for Bruce, Margaret or baby Eddie.

IMBD shows Anna Pacquin who plays Joanie will be on s5 eps 9, 10 +11 https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001593/

[sorry, haven't gotten the hang of multi-quotes yet] When I said this... Now? after Noah has been seemingly nothing more than an irritant to Helen AND the kids. It was meant as an indictment of the writers, rather than a judgment against Noah. I went and looked for a thread discussing Noah's character and didn't see one. There are threads like that for Helen, Cole and Alison.

This mess has never made sense to me. After this ^ which occurred with no cut on Noah's neck in s3 ep9 pt2 Noah's POV... They then showed more of Noah's hallucinations in jail, at his dad's place and then in front of his sink... where he envisioned cutting his own neck. So if Noah's neck was never cut, and he was never addicted to painkillers, Why would he be in such a terrible state that Helen was hiding him in the basement? If that never happened... How could Vik have found out, gotten angry and left because of it? In s3 ep 9 pt1 Helen's POV concludes w/ her tracking Vik down, confessing she hid Noah in the basement because she felt she owed him and not because she still loved him. S3 ep10 pt 1Juliette's POV begins with uninjured Noah in her bed in Paris. Can anyone explain why Vik left and that whole Helen-Vik conversation took place if it (Noah's neck injury-painkillers- being hidden in basement) was all in Noah's mind?

Interesting. It would be cool if Noah acts on having seen Ben's photo with assault arrest caption in the paper at the bridal shop and gets the authorities on young Ben! Of course for that to happen all that older Ben having lived to a ripe old age without having to atone stuff from ep7 would have to have never happened. I hated the E.J. revelations in ep6 and Joanie acting on them in ep7 so I was rooting for all of that being Joanie's hallucinations ...but it's not looking that. way. 😞

😊

right? I really hated s3 and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like s5 when it's all said and done. If Noah and Helen were ever going to get back together it should have happened after that talk they had outside the hospital in s4 where Noah said the person he would most want to be with when he died was Helen. (after a respectable amount of time spent mourning Vik, of course). Now? after Noah has been seemingly nothing more than an irritant to Helen AND the kids. The kids absolutely shunned him at Vik's funeral. Basically since he moved out to California. Stacy uttered her first kind word toward him the night of Sasha's costume party. Now she's all the way to writing stories about them being on a course back to each other? Helen has NOT been checking for Noah like that! What was it last ep 8? or 7? where he came to where she was working on someone's house to plead for her back, and she had zero interest. She was completely put off. Don't ruin this too, she said. Helen only had a smile for Noah the day of her birthday because Whitney said he helped so much with the wedding plans. So naturally Treem and the team are going to put them back together. Makes no sense. Some times I think about listing characters and plot lines from most to least cared about, but honestly I can't be bothered.

I don't care for the upcoming theme of Noah and Helen reuniting that seems to be where we're headed. What, Helen backs Noah when Sasha campaigns to keep his name off the movie? (Sasha already got Noah banned from the film lot and gave himself screen writing credit by ep5). Sasha may have gone too far by urging Helen to keep the kids away from Noah in light of Eden's and Audrey's allegations (in upcoming scenes from ep9} and that ends that. Looks like mom and dad will be picking up the pieces of a distraught Whitney when her relationship with Colin implodes. If they all trek back to Montauk to help out Bruce and Margaret... either plus one Solomander in little E.J. or not... If that's it... ...and Joanie and E.J. (who DOES turn out to be Sierra's son) put their heads together and contact the Police with their info on Ben and proof Joanie was not in-patient at his clinic... or worse, they go out to Ben's together as some sort of crime fighting duo! and he's finally brought to justice for Alison's murder I WILL THROW SOMETHING AT THE TV! Let's hope the writers have something very clever and surprising in store, or they will have trouble living this trash down!

I very much agree with what you've written here, as well as in your post quoted above that where you point out Eddie's grandparents having no involvement is a glaring oversight on the part of the writers. In ep1 s2 during the time he's working on Desent in the rubber room we see Noah being with woman after woman, and they all seem to be half his age. I think it's the one where they try to give their marriage another try and it comes out Helen's mother's P.I. compiled a dossier of all the women he'd been sleeping with. Now this episode we learned he was there in the first place because he was being punished for his "liaison" with a student teacher. When he took young Daisy's number on the book tour it seemed he was taking advantage of opportunities his newfound success with Desent afforded him. Near the end of s2 he told the therapist (when Alison didn't show) that he wanted to sleep with his best student Lucy. So there's that element that Noah, a man around 50 was perpetually going after women he had 30+ years life experience on. Doesn't make him a rapist, but it does make him kind of creepy. The only age appropriate women we saw him with were the French professor and Janelle. That age difference was one of the objections Helen and Noah had to Furcat being with Whitney and Scotty before that. Eden was very intrusive and overbearing in her role as his publicist whether we were seeing Noah's, Alison's or Helen's point of view. So this act of hers where she's suddenly frightened by the very sight of Noah is total BS! When he pulled her into his hotel room and starting kissing her even though it went into making out on the floor (her on top), he stopped when she objected. If something different happened with Eden or if Noah was coercing or pressuring any of those other women into sex, then the writers needed to show that by including their viewpoints. In this ep we learned Noah even wrote about overpowering Alison by the tree at that retreat in his book and discussed it with his students. Noah told them he didn't consider it to be a scene of rape, and that "sex didn't need to be consensual in order for a woman to enjoy it"! Audrey was horrified at the time, and she's even written about it in her novel that's coming out amid the Eden allegations. Gottlieb said these matters are decided in the court of public opinion, so he's screwed. It looks as if it's going to be used as the reason for Sasha (and the studio?) to demand that Noah's name not be attached to the movie. Will he still be paid? He's been looking to this movie version of Desent to improve his precarious financial position. Could this, and whether Helen will support Noah really be the whole point of introducing these sexual misconduct allegations at this late date when the series is almost over? What are the chances of the Whitney Furcat interactions in a very public place getting back to Colin? [sarcasm] The scene from next ep they showed between Whitney and Furcat looks quite cringeworthy, doesn't it? It will be interesting to see how fold the long list extraneous characters and unresolved story lines into just 3 more episodes.

After writing that post it occurred to me E.J. could have been interested in the fact that his mom's friend and neighbor's ex husband wrote a book and that there was a movie based on it. Car54 suggested it too, about the book As you say, he would be even more interested if Noah was in the picture as he was growing up. My biggest problem with the writing and the thing I think was a giant leap, was when we were at the point where we met grown up Joanie who thought her mother committed suicide by drowning and we had to get to the point where she began to suspect she was murdered instead and had Ben in her sights as the culprit. That chance meeting with E.J. in ep 6 and all that information he imparted to Joanie was what I personally found totally implausible. YMMV. Did you find any of this problematic? E.J. was at the cemetery, why? Does he live in Montauk? If he'd been researching the Lockhearts for years as he said no doubt he'd already have any info like names, dates, birth places found on head stones. She was uncomfortable in that remote setting w/ a stranger and trying to get away from E.J.. Her bike tires went flat so she couldn't extricate herself. Giving her a ride home they stop at the beach where hard working Joanie is planting nano-sensors or something when E.J. says you're so resilient to be calmly working here when your mother drowned off this jetty. Total revelation to Joanie! He shows her he has police records relating to Alison's death and crimes involving the Lockhearts going way back. He acquired them from the flooded Montauk police precinct. Really? Official police records just left for the taking? At a time when he happened by so he could take them for his research? Some records he has are badly damaged (he said), but not the ones relating to Alison's death apparently. At her Dad's house he saw and asked if he could have a discarded box that had been Cole's. Visable now because raccoons had torn off the bags Joanie put them in. Why didn't she care what happened to it or who had it? Later that night he calls her cell phone(how?.. he said you're like the 5th Joanie I called) to show her something; the super moon. Seeing it she remembered there was a super moon the night her mother died and checks the tides and finds out the water was very low at the time her mother was said to have drowned. Joanie returns home and obliterates her marriage and her husband tells her to leave. Where does she go? To E.J.'s place. Not a friend's nearby or Luisa's to see if she can talk to her husband Paul the next day, but to E.J.'s. Of course, because how else can E.J. show her that news paper clipping w/ Ben's photo that he found in her Dad Cole's box? She sees Ben's photo and remembers having seen him, someone her mom dated when she was 7.

Yes! Just thought of that while in the shower, the only place I get a quiet moment to think. Maybe E.J. read the book or saw the movie Descent because the author was his mom's friend and neighbor Helen's ex. [She could be his adoptive mom by then to if Sierra doesn't straighten up.] Helen could have said the story was based on real people Lana was Alison and the Lockhearts were (I forget) the Cartrights or Heartwells? Cole said it at that Thanksgiving dinner that he brought the book to and talked about it. That much she would know.

Yes, very good catch! I heard Sierra James and didn't even relate it to E.J. If grown up Eddie is E.J., what would be his connection to Joanie? Even if Helen ends up caring for Eddie or just stays in his life as Sierra's friend, I highly doubt she'd talk to him extensively about Alison and doubt even more she'd talk to him about the Lockhearts. She might remember Cole's name (and obviously Scotty's) and possibly Cherry's since she was at her house over the Whitney Scotty thing. Beyond that, I don't think she could name the other family members (the two other brothers... I know I can't). Nor does she know that the father committed suicide or about the Grandpa Silas baby curse etc. I don't think she'll talk to Eddie about Alison, her fragile state of mind when she slept at Helen's and Vic's California compound post air-arrest, or her having (apparently) committed suicide. 1. because Noah broke the family apart to be with Alison 2. because she doesn't know Alison and her inner conflicts like that. I'd be surprised if Helen even knew about Gabriel's death. It was never discussed with her on the show? So how would E.J. (if he's Eddie) become interested in Joanie or Cole Lockheart, Cole's former wife Alison who committed suicide or anything about the family? He didn't have Ben in his sights until he saw Ben's pic among Cole's possessions in ep 6. I wrote extensively on that thread about how absurd the whole Joanie-E.J. meet up was... including him spewing facts relating to Joanie's mom's death faster than he does movie trivia. Facts she would have never known or acted on (confronting Ben). Still hoping everything involving E.J. and Ben in 6 +7 were Joanie's hallucinations.

Same here. I recognized only her voice.

It was shown in ep 7 too. Noah saw it in the local paper at the bridal shop while Whitney was changing. Maybe Noah acts on it and gets the police to further investigate Ben's role in Alison's death? Of course for that to happen all that horrid E.J. - Joanie trash in 6 and 7 would have to turn out to be her hallucinations... which I'm pulling for!

I enjoyed this Joaniefree episode but also agree they're flinging too much stuff at the wall. Too many unrelated story lines with minor characters that can't possibly be sewn up in what, four more episodes.? Or maybe they want more seasons for all these dilemmas to play out? Oh dear God, no! Not from this team of writers. Is Gottlieb the ONLY attorney in Montauk? Amazing! He handles family, criminal and entertainment law. In the real world Priya would be helping out with Eddie taking the pressure off Sierra. She'd be over the moon doing it too! No doubt Eddie would be in her care whenever Sierra was working on the film. Sierra would have a cleaning person come in and a babysitter if she still needed it. How in the world did the writers turn one rich adult lady with a baby into this morass? I think maybe Helen had a rare smile for Noah at her door because Whitney said he'd been so helpful to her with all the wedding plans.

I get the frustration with different viewpoints, however is it really up in the air as far as what happened to Alison? In the ep where Alison died in the 1st viewpoint (both hers) Alison did not jump to her death off the jetty. We didn't see anything like that. It ends with her cutting her finger at the sink. Some want to ignore what Sara Treem said off the show that she was killed... fair enough. However on the show in the second viewpoint we see Ben overpower Alison as she tries to get out the door, he shoves her and she hits her head and looses consciousness. He then carries out and drops her seemingly lifeless body into the water. Except for sparing her that last part, it was just as Ben described to Joanie in this episode (7). Did anyone see something different? The only place confusion can come from that I can see is when we hear this in Alison's voice (played over the scene where he carried her out and dropped her and as she floated down in the water). "What are you going to do Ben, kill me? You think that scares me? My son died, he died in my fucking arms! So what in God's name do you think you can to do to me that I haven't already done to myself, a million times? I've been in pain my entire life.... " I never thought for one instant that Alison would commit suicide and leave Joanie, leave work that she felt a calling to do and leave Cole. She did tell him she loved him when he said he loved her (when Cole was being held overnight at the police station after Noah's was "attack"). Just because he was trying to make a go of it with Luisa there is no way I believe the character Alison thought she and Cole would never ever be together again. Even if she was getting on with her life and dating others. They had a conversation at her place about how he could fulfill his vows to Luisa and appear a good guy or be with her and risk being seen as flawed like everyone else. This was before he went walkabout to figure things out. She had friends, money and good health as well. Who ends it at 35 with that kind of life? ... and I don't believe for one minute she'd be allowed to counsel people who'd just lost children if she herself had unmitigated depression. No doubt along with whatever training they required, she had to undergo psychological testing before being given access to Woodhaven's patients.

I was rewatching this drivel (God knows why) and I heard something I didn't in previous views; in the scene at the Police Station E.J. said "The Lockhearts are like my Windsors". Whaaat? I suppose E.J. could be a kid Oscar had after little O? He could have died after the birth of that son. I don't think it will turn out that way but he's the only one who's shown any interest in the Lockheart's saga and didn't the Hodges figure into it somehow? I remember Oscar saying he gave Noah "gold" as far as background info for his novel. I even told him about the feud between our families, he said. Also in season 4 didn't they make a point of showing a growing friendship between Cole and Oscar when Cole was working on building his new house? Oscar was the only one Cole confided in about sleeping with Alison while he was with Luisa. Does this freaking scientist dude know any other words besides "resilient"? I know you sometimes have to suspend disbelief in implausible occurrences to watch continuing dramas but this Joanie ep. I cannot! The meet up with E.J. was hokey to begin with. It was filled start to finish with ridiculous happenings, especially for such a major plot point to turn on. This is what we've been waiting for? We're to believe Joanie would have never questioned whether her mother actually committed suicide if she hadn't run into E.J .the epigeneticist at the cemetery? She was visiting her Dad's grave. What was E.J. doing there? Surely his research already included any info such as names and dates that could be gleaned by looking at Cole's, Gabriel's and various Lockheart family members' headstone?. E.J., who just happened to be studying the possibility of inter-generational trauma and specifically it's effect on HER family the Lockhearts. Because a man who is a scientist would be studying what else when the planet is quickly dying???? Then her attempt to remove herself from the secluded area where a stranger was trying to chat her up was thwarted by not one but two flat bicycle tires. They were fine and got her to the cemetery. though, no problem. ...and years before the flooded police station was abandoned and sensitive materials like crime records were left for the taking at a time when E.J. just happened to come along so he could scoop them up for his research. Of course the elements didn't damage the specific ones relating to Alison's death or crimes involving the Lockhearts. All so he could work the revelation that her mother died on the jetty into complementing her "resilience". If he'd simply said she was young and pretty to be a scientist (which seems much more like something a socially awkward guy like that might say), she'd have never known? After a brief conversation when he dropped her home at her dad's he just happened to see and ask for that box of Cole's which Joanie apparently never looked through that contained newspaper clippings and photos of Ben. The box and photos were now clearly visible despite the fact Joanie gathered them up in trash bags when she dismantled the shrine at her dad's house. Oh yes, that was explained. Raccoons. After she went all self-destructive and blew up her home life she traveled all the way BACK to Montauk (or wherever E.J .lives) straight into the arms of the wisecracking, movie trivia spewing stranger she just met. Not to Luisa's or a friend's place to see if her husband Paul might have a change of heart the next day and want to talk. Of course, because if she wasn't at E.J.'s he couldn't show her the photos of the young marine he thought might be Cole's secret love he found in the box. Ben, who she recognizes having seen at 7. For that to happen Alison had to have Cole (who she'd fairly recently told she loved) picking Joanie up just when Ben was dropping by for a date [which she did]. Right. Because divorced ex's with small children do this kind of thing all the time. Also one wonders how E.J. found Joanie's cell number to call her to see the super moon with him that first night in Montauk, having only her first name to go on? She was like the 5th Joanie he called, he said. She not only remembers there being a super moon the night her mother died but now she uses technology to see there wasn't deep enough water to drown in. It never ever ends. Joanie revealed she questioned the E.M.T 's quite closely about whether her father would have made it if someone was there to help him access his heart medications. He was crawling to his meds, she said. Yet nobody asked questions at the time of Alison's death about whether she had water in her lungs to indicate drowning? or no water to indicate being thrown / placed in after death? Not Cole, Athena, Noah, Cherry, her SIL, Cole's other brothers, Oscar, James, co-workers at the psych facility, waitress friend from the LR,, singer friend Phoebe, No one? The cut(s) on her head were discussed and said by Lt. Jeffries to have come from her head hitting rocks in the water. Why did it all stop there? Remember Lt. Jeffries? who didn't give up until he found Noah's cancelled garage appointment when investigating Scotty's death? (or was the inn reservation?) anyway HE never delved that far into Alison's cause of death (nor did any other police). Why?

I don't know if I'd use the word dreamlike as several others have, but this mess definitely had a surreal quality to it. I'd love to find out that what occurred last week and this week involving E.J. and Ben were all Joanie's hallucinations. I can't really add much that hasn't already been said about the absurdity of Ben having laid this super flimsy trap for grown up Joanie that was 30 years in the making, but I have HUGE problems with how she came by all this new info she's acting on (via E.J.)! As I see it, that's when we went from a favorite show gone way off the rails to this dumpster fire we're witnessing now. It's been what, 8 episodes since Alison was found in the water dead and this ep was the first mention of whether she had water in her lungs? We learn she did, which indicates she drowned and wasn't dead when Ben threw an injured unconscious Alison into the water. He could've felt for signs of a pulse or breathing and gotten her help. Since he didn't I hope Noah acts on seeing Ben's assault charge in the paper and is instrumental in bringing him to justice. For that to happen the E.J. and Ben stuff would have to have been Joanie's hallucinations in 6+7, though. It's a bit late in the day with just a few episodes left to be taking up time with dream sequences, so we're probably stuck with this mess. back in Montauk... Who was Noah to be saying "the wedding's happening here, Margaret!" I know when Margaret was in Helen's kitchen he heard about Bruce's dementia and their financial reverses. Even if Whitney always imagined getting married at her grandparents house, it's time for a reality check. Plus they've been living in California. Are the family and all of Whitney and Colin's friends expected to schlep across the country to a place where the Solloways vacationed to attend their wedding? Whitney says lets see what they've done to the Lobster Roll, it'll be hilarious! Really? The place her dad met and got involved with Alison? Something she's still hurting over (his up and leaving her mother and siblings to start another family... in her eyes). What was with her seemingly annoyed reaction to Noah saying he didn't have a speech prepared after she'd replied yes she wanted to ask him about why he left? That seemed odd, as do so many things. Noah said to Luisa I can't believe you got Cole to move to the city. Cole was living in NYC with Luisa when he met up with Alison at a bar after she called him concerned about Scotty's mental state. All four of them were living in the city then, remember writers? I know Helen went to accompany Margaret and Noah was there because Alison was there working, but still it was pretty strange for Luisa to be so curt with Noah who'd attended her wedding. He was surprised to hear of the split and wished her well. Damn, that was a lot of hostility for no reason and I agree she's a character not known for it. If Whitney had shopped for a dress in the city where she lived so she could run back and forth to have any changes or alterations done (as most normal people would), then daddy Noah couldn't have read about Ben's aggravated assault charge in the local Montauk newspaper while waiting for her to model wedding gowns. Same as if mom had accompanied her. I won't even get started on what was wrong with that bridal shop scene! When Noah said to Whitney (who'd just confessed to cheating on Colin) is he likely to find out? I had to laugh. She says no despite the fact Furcat was all over her at exhibit of his work. Plenty of people witnessed him hugging up on her, groveling at her feet demanding she forgive him and showing her those goofy heart laden kaleidoscope photos of her. Do they know any of the same people, asks Noah? No, only the whole L.A art world! About Noah f'ing Solloway, his women and the Eden allegations... "Eden Ellery". If that doesn't sound like a 4th grade girl made it up. Near the end of season 2 episode 8 at a hotel on the book tour Eden knocked on Noah's door saying "how about you never do this again?" She was showing him a cell phone recording of him drunk and taking a swing at Ernest Shiftbaum at the bookstore. He put the moves on her pulling her into the room and she said "uh-uh, bad idea" . They were making out and she stopped in the middle saying "I don't mix business with this kind of pleasure". That was before they were about to go in a guest room at the Hollywood guy's party. Then as we all know Noah ran out after realizing one of the two women he was watching making out by the pool was Whitney! Eden and Noah's tryst is also shown in the intro to s2 ep 9, which makes me wonder if they planned on revisiting this all along? Eden traveled with him on the book tour, made the travel arrangements, booked his appearances and just generally seemed to be controlling his every interaction with the public and press (and even Alison's)... not to mention texting him whenever she wasn't at his side. She was at his book party and their first Thanksgiving together, both at their NYC apartment. Are all writers' publicists quite this intrusive? Thinking back to the tour, Noah asked Helen if she liked his book and she was very encouraging and said "well, I can't read it without crying". Now this season she told Sasha she doesn't think it's a very good book and only not so smart people like it. When Noah took that girl Daisy's number on the sly that night (which Helen saw and demanded he hand over saying tell Alison she owes me one), I thought it was being inferred he was having such dalliances left and right, now that he was really feeling himself as a big time author? I see Noah as a womanizer who doesn't much care what kind of experience the women are having. As far back as s1 ep10 he was shown flirting with a brunette at his gym's pool, next thing they're asking each other's names whilst having sex. Then he's going at it with a blonde. Then he's with another brunette. (Helen said the detective her mother hired had all the women's names). The last scene in the ep before that was him telling Alison at the train station "I did it, I left Helen". This was before his agent set him up at the writers' retreat in Cold Springs where he had Alison staying with him. When Noah stayed for the therapy session that Alison didn't show up for in s2 ep10 he confessed he wanted to sleep with his best student, 26 yr old Lucy. Then he told the therapist about how he'd been ready to cheat with Eden at that party. "She'd been after me for months. I was ready to do it, she went to find us a room". That led into telling her how the shock of having seen his own daughter there made him panic and run out. Noah finished the session by saying he wanted to go to France for 2 years to write about that General and bed whatever women he wanted to without having to lie about it. All this while he was about to marry a very pregnant Alison. His relationship with her always seemed a usurious one to me. Yet we're to believe meeting Alison the waitress in a small town was so transformative that he went from a faithful husband of 25 years to this smug Lothario we see today who can never seem to achieve one bit of personal growth? Without their viewpoints we'll never know if any of those women felt pressured into sleeping with Noah. As far as what we have been shown, if anyone was going to accuse him of coercive sex it should have been Alison way back when over that strangely aggressive sex act by the tree at that retreat. I found it uncomfortable to watch. On whole a separate train of thought... What a contrast to that intimate scene between Cole and Alison (the one where she had the child's band aid on her finger) shown in s1 ep1 and shown again when Cole was cradling her urn at the cemetery remembering. I don't so much miss Alison as I always found the character to be a very poorly drawn one. The only reason I wish she'd stayed was to see she and Cole get back together. He seemed to love her so, and he was the only one she trusted and felt truly valued by. Cole's being gone has definitely lessened my enjoyment of the show; he was my favorite character followed by Helen. The four principals and late comer Omar Metwally all deserve some sort of acting award the industry has yet to invent for doing their best to breathe life into this shoddy material and try and make make it believable. I really liked The Affair in the beginning but feel the quality of the writing took a nosedive. I'd rather see Helen get her happy ending with Sasha than end up back with Noah, though that's not looking like the road we're on.