T Summer

Yes! THIS^ Which s5 development was most egregious to you? For me besides Helen + Noah almost certainly reuniting after she wishes dying of cancer and perishing in a house fire on him... and characters like Colin changing completely from one week to another... The WORST had to be E.J. the answer man just happening to be loitering by Joanie's father's grave site, her trying to escape this weirdo stranger the way she came in (on her bicycle), then her tires go flat necessitating taking a ride from said weird stranger. AND their time spent together resulting in E.J. rapid fire blurting out the answers to mysteries that have swirled around in Joanie's mind for the past 3 decades in between movie references and complimenting her "resilience". 🙄

For all my snarking about the writing, the veering so far off course and the addition of extraneous characters... I'll miss it! The acting has always made it totally worthwhile.

Thank you Pallas, Seems I'm / we're not the only ones with some issues with the writing and time line issues. I recalled all that above about Noah extorting Alison to spend one more day with him b4 signing and all that... ... but I had forgotten it was Joanie turning 4 that set Alison off and ultimately landed her in-patient at Woodlawn. I guess she turned 5 at the pony ride nut allergy cake b'day party? eh, as long as they're not taking her from barely 2 to 7 in a year or two I guess I'll reluctantly deal and follow along where they're going until the end, but it's still some mad sloppy writing.(IMO) ...and it will really be extra maddening if they now try and create some super close relationship between Noah and Joanie out of: see ya later Noah I'd hoped you'd bring Joanie with you I'm going to see if I can say goodbye to Joanie When Cole and Luisa ranted (justifiably) about how hard it was to sooth Joanie's terrors over Alison having just disappeared one day, they made no mention of Noah seemingly dropping out of her life too. Nor did they show Joanie asking where her 1st daddy went. I guess we now know why adult Joanie is a little...off.

thank you Pallas I think I so cannot deal with s3 that I continually block it! We were discussing what E.J. might be doing in the finale, and then of course there's that photo of Joanie holding the gun... Someone suggested older Noah and 38 year old Joanie might have a talk where she learns a lot about the circumstances that surrounded her mother's death. So I was trying to figure out who Noah is/was to Joanie and when she would have last seen him with any regularity. If she were 2 when he went to prison and 5 when he came out and Noah spent time in Paris, then on a book tour and then moved to Ca., did he have visits with her between ages 5 and 7? They never showed that or discussions of such, IIRC. With Joanie having to deal with calling Cole daddy, staying with Cole and Luisa, not seeing her mother for 6 mos and then her popping back up and dealing with split visitation... I could see dealing with Noah seeing her not being a priority, especially if he was traveling a lot. When Noah came to see Alison at the apartment she was fixing up for a visit w/ Joanie and she wanted him to sign divorce papers absolutely no mention was made of Noah seeing Joanie. If he didn't stay in her life and see her with regularity, I cannot see adult Joanie looking him up. Was he only known to Joanie as a friend of her mother's they said hello to over facetime occaisionlly?

Razzberry, you're too kind to call it a stretch! Once a woman in Helen's situation has said things to her ex like "Why did it have to he him[Vik]. Why wasn't it you? or "I hope you burn!" There is no coming back from that. Not to mention her response when Noah came to her client's house begging for a 7th chance. Ridiculous. The acting is great though! To me this is just bad writing (storytelling). You cannot reunite exes where you have scorched earth like this and not have most of your audience rolling their eyes. Its a shame, because it appeared they were very possibly poised for a reunion where s4 left off.

I know what you mean, Milburn Stone. The apartment scene and the talk about finances with broody useless Colin AND Whitney working in a gallery was giving me NYC., too. I had to remind myself that the whole family moved out to L.A.. I guess a lot of the Helen and Vik's* and then Helen 's home scenes have shown only Trevor and Stacy because the Whitney and Martin were away at school. *RIP Vik

Yes, that's what I thought I remembered, one convo shown over the computer. However Noah didn't seem to factor in when Cole + Luisa were working out how to re-establish visitation with Alison. They showed no time together and only this one convo that I can recall. Was he already in Ca.? I put Joanie at 5 or 6 there, what do you think? How did she go from a baby under 2 at the time of Cole and Luisa's wedding to 5 or 6 when Alison (missing 6 mos) came out of Woodlawn? She already looked 5 or 6 at the B'day party and that was soon after. Alison decided she wanted to do counseling instead of devoting her time to the Lobster Roll just after she came out, something that frustrated Cole. Then she met Ben at a seminar and started seeing him. So it seems like they aged Joanie 3-4 years in that 6 mos Alison was in-patient. IDK?

Oh, I get it. I think someone had asked if she'd ever been shown differently. I'm quite sure no one ever saw poor Whitney being so overburdened and so exploited ...but Whitney!

How well would Joanie remember Noah? Would she be looking for him? As usual there is something messed up with the show's timeline🙄 When Alison told Noah he might not be Joanie's father at Cole and Luisa's wedding, how old was she... pretty little right? Noah came from their NYC apartment to the wedding. Not long before that Noah was complaining about washing so many dishes and changing so many diapers in the therapy session with Marilyn and to his agent who wanted him to pump out a quick sequel to Desent. So Joanie would've been under 2 then, no? Then there was Scotty's remark about Joanie that Oscar overheard at the wedding "that's our baby". He'd been in NYC and seen Alison with Joanie, a baby in a stroller shortly before Alison and Cole bought the Lobster Roll and just before Cole and Luisa's wedding. Plus at the wedding Margaret asked Noah to see his baby pictures. He showed Alison a video where Joanie was barely trying to walk, still wobbly. When Alison came out of Woodlawn after no one knew where she'd been for six months how old was Joanie supposed to be then? Cole and Luisa had been caring for her and dealt with her crying for Alison, and they were left to run the Lobster Roll. No mention of Noah comforting Joanie during that time. When all that Cole + Luisa / Alison visitation talk went on, we heard no mention of Noah ever visiting with Joanie. She appeared around 5 or 6 years old at the birthday party where she rode the pony. That came up pretty soon after Alison surfaced and begged to see Joanie. I'm not sure if I even remember Noah saying hello to Joanie over the computer one time? Maybe once. We heard Noah say to Alison I'd hoped you'd bring Joanie with you when she showed up in California. That as supposed to be shortly before Alison's death, right? Joanie was 7 when Alison died. Did Joanie do all the aging Stacy never did?

IMBD's info isn't always 100% accurate but this photo was in with the other 7 where that one of Joanie with the gun can be found. Above the photo it reads s5 ep11. Do you think E.J. will appear in the finale? This looks like a scene from s5 ep6 at Cole's house. Same clothes and all, except I just looked at that ep and E.J. appeared to be wearing dark blue jeans where his pants in this photo appear gray.

😯

Is You Tube media? This lady just couldn't stick it out, like we have. 😄

Amen! Especially to that last part! Helen knows Whitney's a bitch. Remember that s4 ep when she came home for Thanksgiving with Colin? Things weren't as she expected with Vik dying and all and she started shrieking at Helen for not telling her. Helen said could you just... NOT? Not what? asked Whitney Be a bitch! Wasn't it weird when we saw her being so industrious and so docile at the art gallery, with her ultra-demanding boss Andrea looking on? I think it was the day Furkat came in and maybe one other time when she came home to wine that she dare not drink in front of Colin and no coffee. Maybe it was the same ep? Her shoulders were slumped and more and more criticism and menial tasks kept being heaped upon them, yet Whitney wasn't shrieking at Andrea! She just dutifully fixed what was wrong while wearing herself to a frazzle... but it was all in a day's work. I call major BS!

Did they do something to make Noah look really rough this ep / lately? All this time I thought Maura Tierney was probably 47-51 and Dominic West was 56, 57. He's only 45 and she's 54!

Re: Helen concluding Noah's only in hot water in the press because of a remark she made to Sasha at that party and explaining to the family she was wrong to say she thought Eden and Noah were sleeping together on the book tour... therefor everything that's happening is her fault: There's an article on this very site,"The Affair Refresher eight story lines to remember" that states Noah was sleeping with his publicist! https://www.primetimer.com/features/catching-up-with-the-affair-what-you-need-to-know-ahead-of-season-5 It's under the heading Joanie's parentage, oddly enough "Joanie's Parentage Joanie is Alison and Cole's daughter, but for the first two years of her life, Noah thought he was her father. Noah was also sleeping with his publicist when Alison was pregnant (when he thought it was his baby). This dude really can't keep it in his pants. The repercussions of grief is a big theme of The Affair, and the cyclical nature of the Lockhart family trauma will be a focus. Now that Joanie is the same age her mother was when she died, will she learn the truth of what happened that night?" - quoted from the article The Affair Refresher eight story lines to remember by Emma Fraser

If you go to Anna Pacquin's IMBD and click on episode 11 under The Affair it gives the synopsis of the ep and underneath there are 5 photos. If you click see all photos it expands to 8, of which this is one.

ScoobyDoobs, Did you notice in the previouslies they showed some scenes from early in s1 and they called each other friend? In that couples therapy session where Alison never showed Noah decided to stay and talk to Marilyn (Cynthia Nixon) and he said he was a faithful husband for 25 years until he made ONE mistake... He then stammered and tried to save face and said not that I'm saying my relationship with Alison was a mistake.

To me the draw of this show has been the acting. I've watched it in spite of the writing which has been so simplistic seemingly giving us characters who are all bad like Noah or all good like Helen. No real person is like that.. except maybe Whitney 🥁Now this year they've taken to having characters be one way in one episode then having them act completely differently one or two on. Colin leaps to mind. First we meet him at Thanksgiving and he's sweet and kind and funny and takes all Whitney's moods and outbursts in stride and assures everyone he can take it... for a lifetime. Next hard working overburdened Whitney🙄 is living with him pussy-footing around like she dare not pour a glass of wine or complain about no coffee because there's someone Ike Turnerlike lurking just beneath the surface. Now he's back to being a great understanding guy who doesn't even get bent out of shape when Whitney confesses to sleeping with Furcat. Helen? Cheated on Vik 3 times? I can only recall Max the college chum. I always rooted for Helen and Cole and thought Noah and Alison were just not very good people. If you take away her personal tragedy of having lost a 4 year old child, there's not much to warm to about Alison in my eyes anyway. The mot poorly written character of the four principals by miles. Alison sometimes let herself by taken advantage of and at other times she more than stood up for herself. When Cherry thought she could keep Alison in line by threatening to tell Cole about her indiscretion with Noah, Alison gave as good as she got and threatened Cherry with telling the boys the ranch was nearly worthless. Our last look(s) at Alison were completely ridiculous. Armed with the info her new boyfriend Ben was married and pretty annoyed by his having lied about it she was 100% planning to call him on it. Someone who works in the mental health field could definetely figure out that would be better handled in a public place, especially if you know he has/had PTSD and you recently saw him tackle a guy in your office. She was never any self effacing shrinking violet with Noah, Oscar, the dude she was giving P.T. in Cold Springs (Yvonne's husband), and what about that scene in the courthouse hall with atty. Gottleif "any decisions about my husband's defense GO THROUGH ME!" Puh-lease!🙄 I liked Cole's character quite a bit more than you did and people have to keep reminding me about the coke dealing. Once Alison told him no, I don't want to forget Gabriel... I want to forget about you, he had ALL my sympathy. Other than the illegal coke dealing I don't see what people have against Cole? He was so gallant and protective of Alison even after he found out she'd been with another man. I'm remembering when he went to NYC to find her and stopped her from sitting on the curb lest she get dirty. Didn't he put something down for her to sit on? Then there was the way he was with Whitney who'd been chasing after Scotty, when he drove her all the way back to her father's apartment in NYC. She was all... but I love him! He said ok, so? Just because you love someone, does not mean they have to love you back. 😪 When Alison surfaced from Woodlawn after 6 months and they had him being so short with her during the visitation with Joanie discussions, it really didn't sound like Cole's character from the 3 seasons before. He probably quit the show when he got his pages for season 5. 🎬lol People have said Cole was awful to Luisa but again I think his character's arc suffered from bad writing. There he was assuring Alison in this uberplatonic conversation just before the ceremony how sure he was that he loved Luisa and wanted to marry her, and then 6 months later Alison surfaces and they're back in bed together and back in love with each other. Cole's character up until that point never struck me as not knowing his own mind and his own convictions. Plus, all of a sudden Cole's reminding Alison of Gabriel is no longer a deal breaker; it's no longer traumatizing to Alison. He vowed to do the right thing and not hurt Luisa and then of course came the conflict when Luisa wanted him to declare Alison an unfit mother to help her immigration case, his refusal to do so and Cherry suggesting he go away and take stock of his priorities. It was hard for me, but I was hoping Cole would make it back to reunite with Alison because it's what HE wanted. Who did Oscar cheat with? When he was newly married and had a son he referred to as Little O, they showed a budding friendship between former enemies Cole and Oscar. When they were talking at Cole's new house building site, Oscar surmised Cole was once again sleeping with Alison. Cole as much as confirmed his suspicions and Oscar said something like don't let Luisa find out, but I don't remember anything about him cheating? Do tell. lol

He wrote about the rape scene with Alison up against the tree at the retreat in his book and discussed it w/ POSF and students saying "a woman need not consent to sex to enjoy it". By concluding that Audrey had nothing of interest to say and on the other hand going all out to make sure Anton didn't fail to stay engaged and take advantage of every possible educational opportunity... that tells me how little regard Noah has for young women he doesn't deem (and I'll be PG here) doable.

Last night I watched the ep and it made me emotional thinking of the way Helen and Noah were in early s1. I was thinking it would be a little easier to stomach watching the inevitable reunion of the two. 🙄After watching a second time I'm so angry at Noah! After all this worthless POS has put Helen through he has the gall to say to her, when she's trying to get him to leave his house and not burn in it... I think Whitney is right Helen, you have this weird codependency or obsession with me. You shouldn't be here. I'm not your husband anymore ????? WOW! When they set off and left the car and got to the ridge Helen should have had Noah point out the way to the beach access road and threw him off of it instead of that rock! Then she should have climbed down stepped over his broken bones 👣and walked out to safety. Not talking to that lowlife asshat she could have watched out for dangers like holes, rattlesnakes and mountain lions. During the walk and talk... "No you didn't" (have my back and stand up against Bruce and Margaret) said Noah. What an awful awful person! She absolutely DID tell her mother to stop trying to provoke her husband when Margaret said Noah accepted their help with the kids private school tuition while he spoke out about the evils of capitalism, egalitarian ideals and the like . In their united front it's you and me against the world days in the very early episodes Helen made fun of her parents pomposity and told Noah to ignore them, like when Bruce recited that old adage they say everyone has one good book in them almost no one has two; insinuating Noah was talentless or a slacker. Helen allowed Noah to escape living a lower middle class lifestyle and live an affluent one, and to have NO financial worries. Helen had a store and supported him. Even if he taught, he was free to work on his writing most of the time. Try that with a year round job or two, you worthless user. She had 4 children like he wanted, where she only wanted 2.He also encouraged her to abort the 1st one when they weren't ready, IIRC. They continued to have an active sex life after 4 kids and she flattered him and built up his ego. Helen believed in Noah as a writer and encouraged him. Being connected to Bruce did help Noah get to a better editor and publishers than he would have on his own and helped him achieve his dreams. She offered to take him back after he'd been out collecting STD's, and she promised SHE"D change! @&%#$? OMG!!!! WHAT ELSE DID HE WANT? THEN he said (about Alison) "You're right, I did love her. I was crazy about her." 1. it didn't seem so... for so many reasons 2. Does Helen really need to hear that? Hey Noah, ever hear the expression Discretion is the better part of valor? Oh, how I HATE N.F.S.! 😡 Hey Noah, you didn't need to nurse hurt feweengs for 25+ years thinking Helen threw away your love letter. You could have asked 25 years ago did you mean to throw this out?

I know. I've pointed out a few times she shouldn't be lumped in with the others alleging sexual impropriety. Do you think it should stop him from being allowed to teach?

I know you meant Scotty. Cole would never!

Agreed. Helen should have called the police and said she was involved in an accident. However, there was no guy in the road to be hit until Alison pushed Scotty into it. Noah can get some blame too, because Helen said she'd had too much to drink to drive and Noah insisted. So does he sit back in his seat and chill? No, he picks just then to touch Helen's arm and look her in the eyes.

Audrey didn't accuse Noah of any kind of attempted seduction or sexual impropriety. Confusion may come from Petra at Vanity Fair and Ariel Noah's college friend lumping Audrey in with the others who did. Audrey being an aspiring writer herself, was excited to have Noah a successful novelist as her professor at Livingston college. That was Noah's return to teaching after his incarceration. He was completely dismissive of her and made it clear he didn't think she had anything to say. His exact words to her in front of the class were "Unfortunately, all that Audrey has revealed here today is how shocking unoriginal her inner life actually is". Not exactly something she can use to improve the quality of her writing. Audrey told Whitney she went to her Dean who dismissed her concerns and told her to grow a thicker skin. She dropped the class.. she stopped writing and may have even changed her major and she went through a period of depression. Can't help thinking about what happened when Noah began his teaching job on the west coast and met Anton. Anton didn't want to participate in class and was angry (no doubt because the principal, his mother was making him repeat an entire year of school), but Noah didn't know why Anton was so angry and sullen. So Noah does anything and everything to reach this young man which is the start of a relationship between the two. He's encouraging, he's supportive, he gives him his advice and counsel. Noah even goes to his house! Even though Anton has two whole parents, one or both in education. He makes sure Anton doesn't fail by not trying or lose out on any educational opportunities. WHY? What was the difference? If Audrey had been Lucy Koskov the student Noah discussed in the counseling session Alison missed s2 ep10, he said would come see him with her work during his office hours... That she'd made it clear she'd sleep with him. He told Marilyn the therapist "I wish she'd just quit talking metaphors so I could take off all her clothes and bend her over my desk". Something tells me in order to get what he wanted, Noah would be able to squeeze out a few kind words and useful insights about writing for Lucy.