T Summer

Yes, very good catch! I heard Sierra James and didn't even relate it to E.J. If grown up Eddie is E.J., what would be his connection to Joanie? Even if Helen ends up caring for Eddie or just stays in his life as Sierra's friend, I highly doubt she'd talk to him extensively about Alison and doubt even more she'd talk to him about the Lockhearts. She might remember Cole's name (and obviously Scotty's) and possibly Cherry's since she was at her house over the Whitney Scotty thing. Beyond that, I don't think she could name the other family members (the two other brothers... I know I can't). Nor does she know that the father committed suicide or about the Grandpa Silas baby curse etc. I don't think she'll talk to Eddie about Alison, her fragile state of mind when she slept at Helen's and Vic's California compound post air-arrest, or her having (apparently) committed suicide. 1. because Noah broke the family apart to be with Alison 2. because she doesn't know Alison and her inner conflicts like that. I'd be surprised if Helen even knew about Gabriel's death. It was never discussed with her on the show? So how would E.J. (if he's Eddie) become interested in Joanie or Cole Lockheart, Cole's former wife Alison who committed suicide or anything about the family? He didn't have Ben in his sights until he saw Ben's pic among Cole's possessions in ep 6. I wrote extensively on that thread about how absurd the whole Joanie-E.J. meet up was... including him spewing facts relating to Joanie's mom's death faster than he does movie trivia. Facts she would have never known or acted on (confronting Ben). Still hoping everything involving E.J. and Ben in 6 +7 were Joanie's hallucinations.

Same here. I recognized only her voice.

It was shown in ep 7 too. Noah saw it in the local paper at the bridal shop while Whitney was changing. Maybe Noah acts on it and gets the police to further investigate Ben's role in Alison's death? Of course for that to happen all that horrid E.J. - Joanie trash in 6 and 7 would have to turn out to be her hallucinations... which I'm pulling for!

I enjoyed this Joaniefree episode but also agree they're flinging too much stuff at the wall. Too many unrelated story lines with minor characters that can't possibly be sewn up in what, four more episodes.? Or maybe they want more seasons for all these dilemmas to play out? Oh dear God, no! Not from this team of writers. Is Gottlieb the ONLY attorney in Montauk? Amazing! He handles family, criminal and entertainment law. In the real world Priya would be helping out with Eddie taking the pressure off Sierra. She'd be over the moon doing it too! No doubt Eddie would be in her care whenever Sierra was working on the film. Sierra would have a cleaning person come in and a babysitter if she still needed it. How in the world did the writers turn one rich adult lady with a baby into this morass? I think maybe Helen had a rare smile for Noah at her door because Whitney said he'd been so helpful to her with all the wedding plans.

I get the frustration with different viewpoints, however is it really up in the air as far as what happened to Alison? In the ep where Alison died in the 1st viewpoint (both hers) Alison did not jump to her death off the jetty. We didn't see anything like that. It ends with her cutting her finger at the sink. Some want to ignore what Sara Treem said off the show that she was killed... fair enough. However on the show in the second viewpoint we see Ben overpower Alison as she tries to get out the door, he shoves her and she hits her head and looses consciousness. He then carries out and drops her seemingly lifeless body into the water. Except for sparing her that last part, it was just as Ben described to Joanie in this episode (7). Did anyone see something different? The only place confusion can come from that I can see is when we hear this in Alison's voice (played over the scene where he carried her out and dropped her and as she floated down in the water). "What are you going to do Ben, kill me? You think that scares me? My son died, he died in my fucking arms! So what in God's name do you think you can to do to me that I haven't already done to myself, a million times? I've been in pain my entire life.... " I never thought for one instant that Alison would commit suicide and leave Joanie, leave work that she felt a calling to do and leave Cole. She did tell him she loved him when he said he loved her (when Cole was being held overnight at the police station after Noah's was "attack"). Just because he was trying to make a go of it with Luisa there is no way I believe the character Alison thought she and Cole would never ever be together again. Even if she was getting on with her life and dating others. They had a conversation at her place about how he could fulfill his vows to Luisa and appear a good guy or be with her and risk being seen as flawed like everyone else. This was before he went walkabout to figure things out. She had friends, money and good health as well. Who ends it at 35 with that kind of life? ... and I don't believe for one minute she'd be allowed to counsel people who'd just lost children if she herself had unmitigated depression. No doubt along with whatever training they required, she had to undergo psychological testing before being given access to Woodhaven's patients.

I was rewatching this drivel (God knows why) and I heard something I didn't in previous views; in the scene at the Police Station E.J. said "The Lockhearts are like my Windsors". Whaaat? I suppose E.J. could be a kid Oscar had after little O? He could have died after the birth of that son. I don't think it will turn out that way but he's the only one who's shown any interest in the Lockheart's saga and didn't the Hodges figure into it somehow? I remember Oscar saying he gave Noah "gold" as far as background info for his novel. I even told him about the feud between our families, he said. Also in season 4 didn't they make a point of showing a growing friendship between Cole and Oscar when Cole was working on building his new house? Oscar was the only one Cole confided in about sleeping with Alison while he was with Luisa. Does this freaking scientist dude know any other words besides "resilient"? I know you sometimes have to suspend disbelief in implausible occurrences to watch continuing dramas but this Joanie ep. I cannot! The meet up with E.J. was hokey to begin with. It was filled start to finish with ridiculous happenings, especially for such a major plot point to turn on. This is what we've been waiting for? We're to believe Joanie would have never questioned whether her mother actually committed suicide if she hadn't run into E.J .the epigeneticist at the cemetery? She was visiting her Dad's grave. What was E.J. doing there? Surely his research already included any info such as names and dates that could be gleaned by looking at Cole's, Gabriel's and various Lockheart family members' headstone?. E.J., who just happened to be studying the possibility of inter-generational trauma and specifically it's effect on HER family the Lockhearts. Because a man who is a scientist would be studying what else when the planet is quickly dying???? Then her attempt to remove herself from the secluded area where a stranger was trying to chat her up was thwarted by not one but two flat bicycle tires. They were fine and got her to the cemetery. though, no problem. ...and years before the flooded police station was abandoned and sensitive materials like crime records were left for the taking at a time when E.J. just happened to come along so he could scoop them up for his research. Of course the elements didn't damage the specific ones relating to Alison's death or crimes involving the Lockhearts. All so he could work the revelation that her mother died on the jetty into complementing her "resilience". If he'd simply said she was young and pretty to be a scientist (which seems much more like something a socially awkward guy like that might say), she'd have never known? After a brief conversation when he dropped her home at her dad's he just happened to see and ask for that box of Cole's which Joanie apparently never looked through that contained newspaper clippings and photos of Ben. The box and photos were now clearly visible despite the fact Joanie gathered them up in trash bags when she dismantled the shrine at her dad's house. Oh yes, that was explained. Raccoons. After she went all self-destructive and blew up her home life she traveled all the way BACK to Montauk (or wherever E.J .lives) straight into the arms of the wisecracking, movie trivia spewing stranger she just met. Not to Luisa's or a friend's place to see if her husband Paul might have a change of heart the next day and want to talk. Of course, because if she wasn't at E.J.'s he couldn't show her the photos of the young marine he thought might be Cole's secret love he found in the box. Ben, who she recognizes having seen at 7. For that to happen Alison had to have Cole (who she'd fairly recently told she loved) picking Joanie up just when Ben was dropping by for a date [which she did]. Right. Because divorced ex's with small children do this kind of thing all the time. Also one wonders how E.J. found Joanie's cell number to call her to see the super moon with him that first night in Montauk, having only her first name to go on? She was like the 5th Joanie he called, he said. She not only remembers there being a super moon the night her mother died but now she uses technology to see there wasn't deep enough water to drown in. It never ever ends. Joanie revealed she questioned the E.M.T 's quite closely about whether her father would have made it if someone was there to help him access his heart medications. He was crawling to his meds, she said. Yet nobody asked questions at the time of Alison's death about whether she had water in her lungs to indicate drowning? or no water to indicate being thrown / placed in after death? Not Cole, Athena, Noah, Cherry, her SIL, Cole's other brothers, Oscar, James, co-workers at the psych facility, waitress friend from the LR,, singer friend Phoebe, No one? The cut(s) on her head were discussed and said by Lt. Jeffries to have come from her head hitting rocks in the water. Why did it all stop there? Remember Lt. Jeffries? who didn't give up until he found Noah's cancelled garage appointment when investigating Scotty's death? (or was the inn reservation?) anyway HE never delved that far into Alison's cause of death (nor did any other police). Why?

I don't know if I'd use the word dreamlike as several others have, but this mess definitely had a surreal quality to it. I'd love to find out that what occurred last week and this week involving E.J. and Ben were all Joanie's hallucinations. I can't really add much that hasn't already been said about the absurdity of Ben having laid this super flimsy trap for grown up Joanie that was 30 years in the making, but I have HUGE problems with how she came by all this new info she's acting on (via E.J.)! As I see it, that's when we went from a favorite show gone way off the rails to this dumpster fire we're witnessing now. It's been what, 8 episodes since Alison was found in the water dead and this ep was the first mention of whether she had water in her lungs? We learn she did, which indicates she drowned and wasn't dead when Ben threw an injured unconscious Alison into the water. He could've felt for signs of a pulse or breathing and gotten her help. Since he didn't I hope Noah acts on seeing Ben's assault charge in the paper and is instrumental in bringing him to justice. For that to happen the E.J. and Ben stuff would have to have been Joanie's hallucinations in 6+7, though. It's a bit late in the day with just a few episodes left to be taking up time with dream sequences, so we're probably stuck with this mess. back in Montauk... Who was Noah to be saying "the wedding's happening here, Margaret!" I know when Margaret was in Helen's kitchen he heard about Bruce's dementia and their financial reverses. Even if Whitney always imagined getting married at her grandparents house, it's time for a reality check. Plus they've been living in California. Are the family and all of Whitney and Colin's friends expected to schlep across the country to a place where the Solloways vacationed to attend their wedding? Whitney says lets see what they've done to the Lobster Roll, it'll be hilarious! Really? The place her dad met and got involved with Alison? Something she's still hurting over (his up and leaving her mother and siblings to start another family... in her eyes). What was with her seemingly annoyed reaction to Noah saying he didn't have a speech prepared after she'd replied yes she wanted to ask him about why he left? That seemed odd, as do so many things. Noah said to Luisa I can't believe you got Cole to move to the city. Cole was living in NYC with Luisa when he met up with Alison at a bar after she called him concerned about Scotty's mental state. All four of them were living in the city then, remember writers? I know Helen went to accompany Margaret and Noah was there because Alison was there working, but still it was pretty strange for Luisa to be so curt with Noah who'd attended her wedding. He was surprised to hear of the split and wished her well. Damn, that was a lot of hostility for no reason and I agree she's a character not known for it. If Whitney had shopped for a dress in the city where she lived so she could run back and forth to have any changes or alterations done (as most normal people would), then daddy Noah couldn't have read about Ben's aggravated assault charge in the local Montauk newspaper while waiting for her to model wedding gowns. Same as if mom had accompanied her. I won't even get started on what was wrong with that bridal shop scene! When Noah said to Whitney (who'd just confessed to cheating on Colin) is he likely to find out? I had to laugh. She says no despite the fact Furcat was all over her at exhibit of his work. Plenty of people witnessed him hugging up on her, groveling at her feet demanding she forgive him and showing her those goofy heart laden kaleidoscope photos of her. Do they know any of the same people, asks Noah? No, only the whole L.A art world! About Noah f'ing Solloway, his women and the Eden allegations... "Eden Ellery". If that doesn't sound like a 4th grade girl made it up. Near the end of season 2 episode 8 at a hotel on the book tour Eden knocked on Noah's door saying "how about you never do this again?" She was showing him a cell phone recording of him drunk and taking a swing at Ernest Shiftbaum at the bookstore. He put the moves on her pulling her into the room and she said "uh-uh, bad idea" . They were making out and she stopped in the middle saying "I don't mix business with this kind of pleasure". That was before they were about to go in a guest room at the Hollywood guy's party. Then as we all know Noah ran out after realizing one of the two women he was watching making out by the pool was Whitney! Eden and Noah's tryst is also shown in the intro to s2 ep 9, which makes me wonder if they planned on revisiting this all along? Eden traveled with him on the book tour, made the travel arrangements, booked his appearances and just generally seemed to be controlling his every interaction with the public and press (and even Alison's)... not to mention texting him whenever she wasn't at his side. She was at his book party and their first Thanksgiving together, both at their NYC apartment. Are all writers' publicists quite this intrusive? Thinking back to the tour, Noah asked Helen if she liked his book and she was very encouraging and said "well, I can't read it without crying". Now this season she told Sasha she doesn't think it's a very good book and only not so smart people like it. When Noah took that girl Daisy's number on the sly that night (which Helen saw and demanded he hand over saying tell Alison she owes me one), I thought it was being inferred he was having such dalliances left and right, now that he was really feeling himself as a big time author? I see Noah as a womanizer who doesn't much care what kind of experience the women are having. As far back as s1 ep10 he was shown flirting with a brunette at his gym's pool, next thing they're asking each other's names whilst having sex. Then he's going at it with a blonde. Then he's with another brunette. (Helen said the detective her mother hired had all the women's names). The last scene in the ep before that was him telling Alison at the train station "I did it, I left Helen". This was before his agent set him up at the writers' retreat in Cold Springs where he had Alison staying with him. When Noah stayed for the therapy session that Alison didn't show up for in s2 ep10 he confessed he wanted to sleep with his best student, 26 yr old Lucy. Then he told the therapist about how he'd been ready to cheat with Eden at that party. "She'd been after me for months. I was ready to do it, she went to find us a room". That led into telling her how the shock of having seen his own daughter there made him panic and run out. Noah finished the session by saying he wanted to go to France for 2 years to write about that General and bed whatever women he wanted to without having to lie about it. All this while he was about to marry a very pregnant Alison. His relationship with her always seemed a usurious one to me. Yet we're to believe meeting Alison the waitress in a small town was so transformative that he went from a faithful husband of 25 years to this smug Lothario we see today who can never seem to achieve one bit of personal growth? Without their viewpoints we'll never know if any of those women felt pressured into sleeping with Noah. As far as what we have been shown, if anyone was going to accuse him of coercive sex it should have been Alison way back when over that strangely aggressive sex act by the tree at that retreat. I found it uncomfortable to watch. On whole a separate train of thought... What a contrast to that intimate scene between Cole and Alison (the one where she had the child's band aid on her finger) shown in s1 ep1 and shown again when Cole was cradling her urn at the cemetery remembering. I don't so much miss Alison as I always found the character to be a very poorly drawn one. The only reason I wish she'd stayed was to see she and Cole get back together. He seemed to love her so, and he was the only one she trusted and felt truly valued by. Cole's being gone has definitely lessened my enjoyment of the show; he was my favorite character followed by Helen. The four principals and late comer Omar Metwally all deserve some sort of acting award the industry has yet to invent for doing their best to breathe life into this shoddy material and try and make make it believable. I really liked The Affair in the beginning but feel the quality of the writing took a nosedive. I'd rather see Helen get her happy ending with Sasha than end up back with Noah, though that's not looking like the road we're on.