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I have an unpopular opinion in that I adore Ashley. Don't get me wrong, I think she's a horrible human being, but a complete sociopath with a bank account is great tv. I don't even hate Johnny like I used to, but I'll fully admit, I was rooting for Ashley to pull off the coup. She just makes me laugh. What can I say? I'm a horrible person, lol. Speaking of Johnny, I'm enjoying the romance with Wes. It's fun to change it up, and somewhere along the line, I became a huge Wes fan. I couldn't tell you when or why it happened - I don't think I have ever hated anyone as much as I hate Wes on his Austin RW season. But now? I kinda love him. They really telegraphed that CT was going to lose. I was hoping they were trying to fake me out, but alas. First they are stuck in this awful bunker instead of a sunny locale, and now my favorite eye candy is gone. *sigh*

I was never a fan of Kara's but of course I still find this heartbreaking, and I think her post shows a lot of grace and class in what is the worst time of her life. To use such a sadness to promote life-giving donations is certainly a testament to who she is as a woman. I'm so sorry for her loss, and admire her for trying to find positiveness in it.

I enjoyed the heck out of both of those seasons. I didn't remember Cutthroat to the point I'm almost convinced I've never seen it before. Not quite convinced, but I'm not 100% sure I had truly seen that whole season. I had a few thoughts: I don't think I ever knew/remembered that Camila came in off of some rando season. I actually felt badly for her her rookie season and was impressed again at what a good competitor she was. Too bad she was such a trash human being - she really could have gone far with the franchise. Theresa - not only did I forget how much I disliked her, I forgot she existed! Does anyone know why Laurel was so hellbent against Mandi coming into Cutthroat? I know they would end up on different points of a CT triangle later on, but when Mandi went off with Chet (also forgot about his dumb ass! Mandi as well!), Laurel was going hard about what a whore Mandi was. I've always had a thing for CT, and I'm glad he was able to redeem himself, but honestly, he never should have been allowed back, and they NEVER should have had his redemption arc depend on Adam. It was great storytelling, and it all worked out in the end, but as much as I love CT, he was Adam's abuser, and MTV had no right to put him in that situation. That said, it was pretty rich to hear Kenny and Evan talk about what a scumbag CT was. Like, HELLO, until he rapes someone with a toothbrush, you can shut it. Speaking of, it was really weird seeing them one last time knowing what they had done. And I know how this is going to sound, but I'm gonna go there anyway. I think Kenny was the lesser of two enormous evils. I think Kenny is a misogynistic douchebag who doesn't see women has having inherent value, especially if they aren't sexually appealing to him. So I think he saw no regard for Tanya and what he did to her. It was just another dumb prank in his book, perhaps turned up because Tanya "deserves" a worse "prank." Now Evan? There's something about him that just says to me that he ENJOYED it, like I think he got off on it and was secretly very excited to have a "sanctioned" opportunity to do something like this. That said, this is based on absolutely nothing. And don't think I view things they way I described how I think Kenny views them. I don't see this as just an overblown prank - I think it was a sexual assault, period, hard stop. Getting to see Banana Backpack in all it's glory again was awesome. And I will have to say, Johnny actually took a humiliating defeat with surprising grace and good humor. And wow, the years have been kind to him. He is a far better looking man today than he was ten years ago. I enjoyed Exes I too. I never liked Diem, which I feel bad about saying, but I think it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise. I didn't like her, but I certainly was sad she died. I never thought she was a bad person, but I think she was overly invested in her Good Girl image, and I do think she let CT down when his brother died and yet still played the victim with him. But it did make me sad to see her, and know she ended up dying so young. I know this is true of anyone, but it just made me wonder if she had know she would die so early, would she have made the same choices? Again, I know you can live to 97 and look back and wish you made different choices, but it just made me super sad to see her and CT together. Sad, sad, sad. Still stuck on like episode four of Battle of the Seasons II.

I am just not digging this season. It's the same problem a lot of other people are having - the aesthetic and the timing of it. Normally, I almost resent the beautiful places and homes these idiots stay, and if the world were normal, I would probably enjoy watching these assholes be stuck underground in dismal surroundings. But right now? No. I've been watching past seasons on MTV Hits, and seeing them out by the pool is what my soul needs. They went on a booze cruise in an episode I watched recently, and I honestly teared up. I wish this place was some place sunny and warm with a big giant pool and all these morons would run around in swimsuits and just let me soak it all in. It's the wrong time for a bunker season (not blaming MTV, how the heck could they have known? I'd rather have a bunker season than no season, but damn, could the timing have been worse?

I signed up for a month of MTV Hits, which has Challenge seasons 20-30. I'll be damned if I can find 1-19 for anything less than $2 an episode, which...let's see how long this quarantine lasts first. (Unless someone knows where I can find them...that's really what I want to see.) I watched 20 (Cutthroat), 21 (Rivals I), and 22 (Exes I) in about a day each. Now I'm on 23 (Battle of the Seasons II) and it's taken me about 4 days to get through 3 episodes. Should I keep going? I remember who wins and some of the details, but not the whole thing. I've seen every season (though I didn't remember much of Cutthroat AT ALL), but I can't remember - are there anymore seasons after 23 worth watching? I honestly just want the earlier season - wah, poor me, lol.

Honestly, I couldn't find anything that actually confirmed they were even filming, and they definitely should have been if there was going to be a season two in the first place. If they do have footage, I hope they'll put something together and give it to us. I know everyone is all about Tiger King right now (and I get it! I saw with my mouth hanging ope too!), but I think this is the show everyone should be watching. It's heartwarming and uplifting, and all the "characters" are, well, cheer-worthy.

I would have preferred to be wrong.

I think we have lost Season Two to Corona, if they ever even filmed. Unless they want to try again with new characters.

That's interesting, I hadn't even thought about that angle, duh. I hope this plays out in an interesting way, and it should, I think. You've got to get into an elimination and win it yourself, and you also want to try to keep your biggest competitors stay out of it. I think the alliances will really come into play when it comes to choosing when you go into elimination and who you go against. I honestly hope a super strong competitor like Jordan gets iced out of elimination and can't go the final. Why? Because I'm the kind of asshole who would find that funny. It's maddeningly unfair, and that makes me want it so badly!

But he didn't actually go up against Phoenix; he wasn't nominated.

Man, what a season! OK, Karen. Jeebus, this woman. I left season two wondering if she was mentally ill and therefore I couldn't enjoy laughing at her. Now I realize she's just regular delusional, and laughing is just fine. Of course I was saddened to hear about the death of both of her parents, what a huge loss, especially back to back like that. But DAMMIT I wanted answers! Mostly, I was so upset they didn't ask her at all at the reunion about how much money was donated after her charity event. That shit seemed sooooooooo shady!!! And I really wanted to know definitely where she lives! Argh! That said, I liked her level of crazy this season. Her fighting her wig gave me life. Gizelle - she's a horrible person at least half the time, and I love her for it. She is so beautiful, but she looks like a cartoon to me. I truly felt for her over the Sherman situation. It seemed like she was genuinely happy with him. Ashley - I didn't think it was a good look for her to sell out Monique over how many drinks she had. But Ashley ain't keeping her mouth shut about anything, that much is for damn sure. We definitely saw a different side of her mom this season. Michael was soooooooo gross with the I don't know if you would be a good mother to my children bullshit. That was a deep, deep cut. Robyn - meh. Just not a lot going on, but DAYUM her short hair looked good on her. She truly is just a striking woman. Monique - man, I loved her season two, but she was so damn messy this season. She should have stayed away from the Kendyll nonsense. That was embarrassing for everyone involved. And girl, alcohol makes you sleepier. If you drank at lunch, and then fell asleep/passed out while driving, you can't pretend the alcohol was irrelevant. I'm not saying she wasn't exhausted, maybe she was. But alcohol is going to make that worse. But I will FIGHT YOU if you try to take her off my tv, just because her kids are so damn cute! Candiace - holy crap. No. Just no. Her mother is so horrible, just truly, truly awful, but it's so easy - stop living on her money! Problem fucking solved! And last but not least - Matt. Y'all. I would never have guessed a weird random white man was what this show needed, but my god, he makes me laugh. He does so low key hilarious shit, but you got to be paying attention. At the fragrance discovery party or whatever it was, when all hell starts breaking loose, the weird white woman leans back to tell Matt to get the situation under control. He leaned forward to hear what she was saying, and then once he did, he promptly sat his ass right back down, like, bitch, I bet I do get up in that mix! I was howling already, and then a few minutes later, he's seen slipping out while CARRYING KAREN'S PURSE! I completely lost it. Finally, I was so excited to get to season four so I could hop in the episode threads here, only to discover they don't start until mid-way through the season. I've been hoodwinked! I'm sure it was Karen!

I hope y'all don't mind me sharing the sweetest picture of the two sweetest boys I've ever known. This is the day they met each other. Drew is the white one on the left, and Doug is the tuxie with his arm around him. They absolutely adored each other from the moment they met, but I found out right after I adopted him that Drew had a heart condition that was going to cut his life short. They told me he wouldn't make it to a year, and he made it to just over three, and Doug and I were grateful for every day we got with him. Tomorrow will be the one year anniversary since he passed away. I appreciate you letting me share.

I agree with both of the above. I've probably been the most vocal defender of Kenya against Marc, and I don't retract a single word of it, but my mouth was left open at they way she came for Cynthia about the wine. I truly don't like Kenya. I have no problem watching her get her comeuppance, just not at the hands of her asshole husband. Portia did sell Cynthia out the hardest at the end of the day, but I don't think she was being intentionally shady. She wanted to make sure we, the audience, knew how out of control Kenya's behavior was, and she's just not bright enough to realize she's making it worse.

I think anytime someone points to Naomi Campbell as the way we should do something, you can be assured they are joking.

LOL, I'll be 46 later this year, and really should have top-of-the-line tampons on me at all times. It's hard to believe that over 30 years of this nonsense and I still get caught unawares waaaaaay more often than I admit. But Tampax are mid-grade. There are all kinds of all organic, non bleached, fancy pants tampons. I'm just happy to have A tampon.

This is so interesting to me, because I would say the exact same thing, but opposite! Though I do think I started out thinking Charrisse was worse.

Did realize the second season was only 14 total episodes, so I knocked out the rest of it last night. OK, after watching this season as well, is Karen mentally ill? I'm asking very seriously. I spent the better part of two seasons enjoying watching her delusional ass get what was coming to her. Karen is my least favorite kind of person, I think. She's painfully and excruciatingly insecure, and covers that with superiority and self-importance. I just don't understand her as a person. Even the people I truly don't like in other franchises, like Kenya or Vicki, I still feel like they are real people. They are people I don't like, but they seem like real people to me. Almost every ho'wife seems to me like they would be fun to have a drink with, or might make a good neighbor. I feel like Karen is insufferable ALL THE TIME. But I'm starting to notice more and more that she doesn't fully seem in touch with reality, and it's starting to make me uncomfortable. Also...is there something slightly off about her daughter?? Charrisse - omg, I hate it when people refer to themselves in the third person, and you can times that by 100 when they refer to themselves as a third person alter ego. If she wants to go by Chacha as a nickname, I have no problem with that. But please stop talking about Chacha like it's a whole new person. Ashley - good golly is she messy! I still like her overall, but it's easy to look good when you are living high on life, which she was in season one. Now that shit isn't so fun, she isn't as fun either. Sometimes I sided with her, sometimes I didn't, but girl was so damn messy! Monique- I liked her and her husband! They actually seemed like real people, and while maybe she might have a golddigger side (I could never fully decide), she clearly thought she had a role to play in her marriage as well. Robyn - I swear at the beginning of the season she talked about doing dna testing or an ancestry search or something, and then nothing came of it? I'm kinda meh on her storyline. I know some spoilers about her and Juan (are they spoilers if it's real life??), but it wasn't until the reunion that I got the idea that he is putting wanting to be a good father over everything else - and I don't actually mean that in a good way. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but it's the first time I truly realized they might not be on the same page in a way that is detrimental to her. Other than that, she just seems like a regular person, and I'm not really turning the tv to watch that. I will say that I think she is absolutely gorgeous, even among a truly beautiful cast. Gizelle -still crazy, still messy, still has me coming back for more.

I really enjoyed season one, but it might have helped I got to binge it and it was commercial free. I can tell you, I did try to start it when it first came on, and for whatever reason, it just fizzled for me. One of the things that has been fascinating to me is all the racial discussions. It was one of the main reasons I wanted to find archived conversations about it. I would love to be able to be a fly in the corner and see what people had to say without having to ask ignorant questions and possibly offending people. So, since another poster forgot Katie, let's talk about Katie! So pretty! LOL, that's about all I've got on the positive. I don't know why she denied being on drugs at that party she completely made out with her boyfriend. I am WAY more embarrassed for her if she truly hadn't slipped some ex or something, because, DAMN that shit was inappropriate! And then that janky ass proposal that didn't even make it to the reunion. But I was disappointed when she wasn't on Season Two. Does anyone know the story behind that? Especially when I think she is back in a later season?

I just started a thread for a season one rehash. I'll start one for season two when I finish it, if someone doesn't before me.

And Katie!

I'm VERY late to the party, but I have been been watching this on Hulu. I'm already about halfway through season two, so I'm going to TRY to just focus on my feelings at the end of season one. No way I can break this down by episode, so if this is all out of order, please excuse. Soooo, just to pick a place to start: I mostly thought Ashley was a mostly harmless little puppy. She always looked like a little girl playing dress up to me. She interested me, because I have trouble believing she just genuinely loved Michael exactly for who he is, but she also doesn't seem to come off as completely money hungry, so I couldn't figure it out. I thought he was wrong to show up at the Girls' Weekend, but not at all for the reasons stated. It does change the mood, having a guy there, but my ex-husband (whom I adore, though not quite Robin/Juan levels) was the WORST for crashing girls' nights. It wasn't that he found that many women titillating, or he wanted to catch us wearing skimpy things, or because he missed me so very much. He just had the WORST case of FOMO you've ever seen in your life, lol. Mostly our nights would end up like theirs did, playing beer pong and it not being that big of a deal. That said, by the end of the season, I wondered how long it would be before Ashley started outgrowing Michael. Because, (most not all) men who are into MUCH younger women, it's not really because they have great bodies and perfect skin and nothing sags anywhere, although it obviously doesn't hurt. In my experience, it's more because a mediocre man can feel worldly, and smart, and powerful next to a younger, inexperienced woman. They get off on introducing the younger woman to so many things, and having her be in awe of him. But you can only introduce someone to see urchin so many times, and young, inexperienced woman usually grow up into mature independent women who are no longer impressed by the old guy, and no longer want to go along with everything he says. And then he resents her for it, and tries to put her down to get her back into her place where he likes her. I'll go for the two ends of the spectrum for this first post, so next up is Karen. Holy Jeebus. What a smug, self-important, DELUSIONAL woman. She absolutely infuriated me so many damn times. I would admittedly be annoyed if someone's husband crashed our girls' weekend (although as mentioned it was MY damn husband always doing the crashing), but for her to clutch her pearls that she would have to sleep under the same roof as a man while her husband wasn't present? Um...what? And then when Ray said that he didn't want Michael there because Karen would be wearing skimpy things? My god. OK, first, if this wasn't a television show, couldn't KAREN be responsible for putting on some damn sweat pants if it was that big of a deal? And really, it is a tv show! There was a camera crew there looking at your wife. Editors, looking at your wife. And then ME! ME! I'm a damn stranger on my couch at home looking at your wife! Absolutely absurd. But then, I've never been one for what is "appropriate" and "proper" especially when it's coming from someone like Karen who is just using etiquette as a bludgeoning tool to try to make herself seem elevated while putting other people down. I found her absolutely insufferable, and I couldn't get a read on why she is the way she is. I have so much more, but I'm having trouble remembering things, so I hope anyone else will chime in and give me something to riff off of. I will say, the one things that really sticks out to me right now, and oh, how it made me laugh: At the reunion, Ashley is going on and on about something being a "moot point", and Charrisse finally, quietly, says, "mute. It's a mute point." Andy obviously heard her and gave her the funniest "Oh...dear" look that I burst out. I normally don't like Andy's condescension towards Ho'Wives, but I have to admit I died.

Dang. I can't find anything anywhere. Here or anywhere on the internet, and I know there is simply no way this was the only site talking about them back then. I hate when my google-fu fails me.

I've just started watching Potomac and am currently halfway through season two. I can't find forums, here or anywhere else, for these seasons. Even the catch-all thread here starts later, in 2019. The only recaps I can find are on Vulture, and it requires a subscription. Can anyone help me? I'll be super excited to join you guys once I get to season four, but right now I'm all alone!

Alright, y'all. I'll cop to it. I've called out the other woman. It was stupid and dumb and embarrassing and all I can say is you do stupid and dumb and embarrassing things when you are hurting. The only other thing I'll say in my defense is that The Other Woman knew he was in a committed relationship with me, so I do think she did something dirty too. The worst part was once I "sobered up" from my hurt and anger, I forced myself to apologize to her. Trust me, there have been few things in my life that sucked as much as realizing I owed an apology to the woman my guy was fucking on the side, especially since she felt I deserved it and let me know exactly that. And I had to fucking apologize. UGH. THIS IS WHY YOU CONTROL YOUR TEMPER AT ALL COSTS. Someone said above that Marc was likely a controlling asshole from the start. I'd be willing to bet he wasn't, or at least it was mixed in with him building her up, making her feel like she's the best and only woman in the world. He likely put her on a pedestal and then blamed her when she couldn't keep up his illusion. I don't envy her for what she is goring through. That said, I've got no time for her being all sad the other women aren't as supportive as she would like. THAT is karma to me, not her being abused by her husband. Additionally, I both felt bad for Nene and thought she was a jerk at the same time too. Sometimes I think they should rename this show The Damaged Assholes of Atlanta.

FWIW, I've known lots of Laura who say it like I do, including the other poster. And believe me, I wish it were as easy as saying "pretend my name is spelled lara" to get the correct pronunciation. And some of the Lauras you know may pronounce it the same way I do and are like me in that they don't bother correcting people over it. I also don't bother to capitalize my name, which is also "wrong" but I don't care. My cursive upper case Ls are crap. Weirdly enough, now I am questioning how to say Lauren Bacall and I don't know how to find video of her saying her own name.