JenE4

I am loving that we finally have an all-new cast of characters. (Though I guess we get that with “During” unless someone is trying with another partner.) This guy Rob who has a full-on surveillance system from his cell is a walking red flag, but cracking me up that the COs turn a blind eye because they know if something goes down on cell block D, he can call over to C for backup! Andrew’s friend is supportive about his inmate relationship? This is highly unusual. He’s at least slightly skeptical that Andrew is setting up Candace in an apartment out of state. Either anesthesiologist or stripper. Surely there was some middle ground on a career choice. Did she say $600 a night? Proceed. Though we saw that lap dances for $30 sign and Wilkes-Barre PA isn’t exactly a Mecca for high rollers, so I think Ayonna might be exaggerating. It looked like she was counting six ones, so maybe I misheard her. This middle-aged man living with his parents for a decade! (Oh, it’s the meth! I got thrown off by the partner on the outside being troubled too.) “I mean, should I get another credit card?” This guy is the new Chance. Damn, Candace is mad that Andrew potentially saw someone who might advise he limit spending money on her. the irony is Jamahl gets out and Ayonna goes in. On the bright side, you can milk an extra season out of this!

I’m not sure how MAFS works, but if it’s anything like Bravo, it’s a cycle of a year and the reunion for the current season is filmed after the break, as the current season is airing, right before they start picking up filming for the next season. So, for example, Vanderpump Rules is currently airing and the season should be ending soon. They filmed the reunion March 16, and the filming for the season was June through September 2023. This is why it’s odd to viewers when something comes out at the reunion and they’re “still fighting about it a year later” by the time we see that next season, but to the cast, it’s still a fresh topic because it was only 3 months ago between filming the reunion and the next season. But MAFS timelines, I don’t know. Just when we think the season is over, they pull out MORE episodes! I’m wondering whether this post-marriage show we get this week was filmed after the reunion rather than soon after the divorces. Based on the previews, it seems so. I’m guessing after that debacle of a reunion, some producer is like we can still milk this vitriol!

I’m a little late to the show, so I think everything there is to be said has been covered. But I think if you just wanted to give someone a 4-minute clip that summarizes the entire four hours, I would go with Kevin asking Cameron what the double-date accusation was all about. Cameron says, “So we went to Union Station” and Emily and Clare immediately start hysterically crying(?!?!). Cam just stops for a bit and then asks whether he should continue, and Clare starts screaming that he’s lying. At this point he’s only said Union Station—so is he lying that they were at a different bar? Then as Emily and Clare are crying and yelling about the purported lies, Cam and Brennan calmly point out that the girls admitted to XYZ and Clare just yells back that’s besides the point and it doesn’t matter. So every single “lie” turns out to be a lie or embellishment on the girls’ behalf—though they keep doubling down that everything the guys have ever said is a lie. It was just mind-boggling. The guys all gave thoughtful and reflective apologies to the experts, while the girls (really just Emily and Clare) vacillated between crying and yelling but never once letting up that everything was 100% the men’s fault. No accountability whatsoever for the part they played in going along with the optics plan. Like, okay, maybe you were following the men’s lead, but you still did it, too. They were just so proud of themselves for hyping each other up backstage to keep fighting and not let up for a second. It was like Barbie meets Lord of the Flies up on that stage. This was just way too much. I can almost understand Emily acting like a teenager with a broken heart because this is the longest relationship she’s ever had. But Clare, a grown-ass therapist with a dating history, should not be this worked up over someone she had a few week relationship with. She should also be better at explaining her feelings and perspective. Who’s going to want to be her patient?!

Fair point! He told us all along that he wasn’t looking for someone to live with! Are we surprised he didn’t move?!

Golden Bachelor 's Gerry Turner and Theresa Nist are getting a divorce three months after their on-air nuptials in January. Read in E! News: https://apple.news/A2SvsD-TaRP-YxmeaZf4Zxg

Totally agree with you. And, you know what, I think they were both telling “their truth” (to quote Clare). They even did seem to validate the other in a “yes, but” way. So from what I gather, Clare did admit that she initially told Cam that they needed a plan for “optics,” and asked for his help. Cam then took the ball and orchestrated the optics plan, and every other couple ended up following suit in this optics pact. So, it is both true that it was originally Clare’s idea AND that the plan was Cam’s—neither is “wrong” per se by trying to pin the whole optics concept back on the other one. Cam did agree that he explained physically what he asked for—and Clare admitted that she “filled in the blanks” on that meaning he wasn’t attracted to her. But Cam was very much attracted to her—and she’s just unable to let go of her interpretation of his actual words in answering a specific question that wasn’t really about her. (For instance, if you asked me beforehand to describe the kind of guy I usually went for, I wouldn’t describe my husband, even though I went gaga for him as soon as I met him.) Clare then went and told the girls “her version” of what Cam said, and Emily in particular seems to still be angry about Cam “telling Clare he’s not attracted to her,” which never actually happened though Clare feels like it did. The Kens didn’t know what hit them when the Barbies came fully united with corroborated stories (and a bespoke dance). I feel like this was almost to the women’s detriment because it seemed almost “too coincidental” that they all had the exact same experience and somehow Emily specifically chimed in on every detail on everyone else’s marriages and conversations. Like, they could have taken it down a notch. The guys’ reactions backstage were priceless! It was like they were defeated in the trenches realizing the other side brought out the heavy artillery and a coordinated plan of attack. Sounded like the guys barely even kept in touch (aside from Austin and Michael). Guess they forgot about aligning on optics for the reunion. I thought Kevin did a really good job “speaking for the people” by pointing out when certain things didn’t add up and stopping the pile-ons and letting people speak for themselves. Likewise, Michael and Chloe had looks of shock, and I like how they were both all, I’m glad we didn’t end up like that, and I have the utmost respect for you. Though, I think the most surprising part of the episode to me was that Michael didn’t cite the foster kiddos and animal sanctuary as being the reason for saying no. Anyhoo, I thought these 2 hours were action-packed, and they barely scratched the surface on actual events and conversations, so I’m surprisingly looking forward to the next 2 hours—especially when Kevin sets a boundary that makes Emily run sobbing temper tantrum style from the stage.

Kristin’s “friends” really don’t like her! Now, I’m not naive to Bravo “friendships” and how even new cast members who come on as a “friend of” oftentimes have a tenuous acquaintanceship at best. However, all of these people keep going on and on about how much they love each other and how they’ve been friends for a decade or whatever, so I tend to think they are telling the truth and that was almost like original recipe Vanderpump Rules casting (with Scheana as the only outlier to the actual friend group). Have they always hated Kristin? Have they put up with her because of her Bravolebrity? Or maybe they were really just friends with Brittany and Jax, and Kristin just got dragged along as that one person in the group you have to put up with but wish you didn’t. Though, there does seem to be a strong division between the married parents as a core group, and Kristin and the two other singles as their separate little friend team.

Wow. This is wild! And we are only 12 minutes in.

Not angry, but upset as in sad and hurt.

Yeah, I recall Sandoval being really upset about Ariana and Lala hooking up when he told Jax, Schwartz, and James. James specifically was all hyped up about it and Jax was all it’s no big deal, but Sandoval was upset that Ariana just jumped right into the backseat and let Lala go down on her with him right there. He felt like he couldn’t even say anything in the moment. I saw this scene last season when they were replaying all of the episodes for the Scandoval Extravaganza.

That was Ariana. It was even one of Sandoval’s “justifications” for secretly fucking Raquel for 8 months—because you, Ariana, fucked LaLa right in front of me (or technically behind him since he was driving) in the car.

Re Schwartz being too harsh to Jo: I think he had to be blunt. We’ve seen him say before that he doesn’t want a relationship despite also saying how much he cares about Jo and how great they are together as friends (with benefits). But Jo seriously does think they are in a “secret relationship.” She even said that I have to get along with these girls if “I’m going to be in Tom’s life forever.” She truly believes that he’s just taking it slow because of Katie and ultimately they’re going to get married. I feel for her because she obviously believes they are soulmates. I think Tom has fun with her and likes that they are goofy together, but I tend to think she’s too goofy and awkward even for Tom to ultimately settle down with. She’s trying too hard to be all Three Stooges, Abbott and Costello, and at least 2 or 3 of the Marx Brothers all at the same time. Trying to have a “normal” conversation with her is like being in the front row of a Carrot Top or Gallagher show. I hate to say it, but I can kind of see why she feels that Tom keeps her hidden away. I don’t think it’s to spare Katie’s feelings. I think he likes laughing with her in private but knows “group dynamics” isn’t her strong suit—as evidenced by every group event she’s attended this season. Also if she’s possibly on the autism spectrum or some neuro atypical or behavioral health issues, she may already be having a difficult time reading social cues, and it’s even worse for her that Tom’s words and actions aren’t aligned. Hell, most people in love are going to just see what they want to see and ignore the red flags. Tom has apparently been leading her on for a year and a half with these “mixed signals” of fucking her, saying how great they are together—but also saying he doesn’t want a relationship. It’s understandable that in her mind this “situationship” means more to her than it does to him. It was apparently long overdue that Tom very clearly lay out his intentions—or lack thereof.

All about Ann! Plus she reveals that an air-conditioning repairman went in Ariana’s room! Granted, Ann says she doesn’t know who ultimately closed the door. But Ariana made it seem like Tom just went into her room to snoop or sabotage her dog. Even though Tom said to fix the air conditioning, I’m not sure why he didn’t reiterate that the repairman needed access to her room—that it wasn’t just him fiddling with the air as an excuse to go in there. Plus, learn more about Ann… Tom Sandoval's Assistant Ann Tells All on Her Job and Clarifies 3 Major Things: "The Truth Is..." Ann Maddox spilled on what it's like to work for Tom Sandoval, why she eventually turned to Ariana Madix for a job, and more in an exclusive chat with The Daily Dish. Read in Bravo https://apple.news/AAu3JpmMITFSZ7L5jxv3uhA

Yikes! That’s really sad.

I’ve only seen Jaime and Doug and Aris’s seasons out of this group. But even though I have no idea who these people are or what they experienced, I’m still engaged. Paige’s husband had a pregnant fiancé pop up?!? Wow!! What season was that?! I just posted earlier in the other thread that I was hesitant to stream earlier seasons because the amount of content seems daunting, but I would tune in to see that fallout.

I’ve only watched a handful of seasons, so the other day I was looking at streaming some other seasons, but the ones I clicked on were all 21+ episodes that are 1.5 to 2 hours long. I just can’t bring myself to start streaming. It’s one thing if they pull me in for 2 hours a week and the next thing you know autumn has turned to winter and winter has thawed to spring, but seeing more than 40 hours of streaming ahead of you is just daunting. I will, however, make an attempt if there’s a specific season or two worth watching.

Definitely not judging her for hooking up with Daniel. I was responding to the comment that we don’t know how serious or sexual the relationship is and how she probably wanted to take it slow. I was providing context on what she told us about the relationship. I’m not positive, but didn’t Schwartz claim to be pre-med in college?! Despite that, you’re probably right. Lol.

We do know how she felt about Daniel at the time of filming. In either the very first episode of the season or at least an early episode, Ariana was gushing about how she’s going to make babies with Daniel, even though she never wanted kids before. She fucked him when she met him at her friend’s wedding, even though she never wanted to have sex with Sandoval. She was going on and on about how he’s a better man than Tom in every way. I can’t give specific quotes, but that was the general vibe. The baby thing she definitely said because Lala (or one of the girls) nearly fell out of her chair in shock that Ariana wants babies with this new man even though Tom couldn’t convince her beyond freezing eggs in a decade. Granted, she’s just been a moping sad sack or angry scorned woman in every scene we’ve seen of her since then, so she is certainly not acting like she’s moved on. But she did establish that she and Daniel were serious. Granted, they live on different coasts, and we haven’t “met” him so I’m not sure whether they went this whole season of filming without seeing each other. Though his feelings for her must be genuine if he’s not taken the opportunity to be on television.

Yeah, but Ariana already had a serious boyfriend at this time. She started dating him within like 2 weeks of the break-up (and she’s still with him). So hearing about Sandoval having a date shouldn’t be some knife to the heart. What’s Daniel (the boyfriend) to think about how Ariana feels about him if she’s acting so unhinged over her ex? The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference.

And to think, this was filmed 8 months ago and Ariana just bought a new home. Ariana really spent an entire year spewing vitriol at Tom? This was four months in and everyone was already over how uncomfortable this was. Yes, she was hurt and her feeling are valid. But the way she was even yelling at all of the guys for not putting Tom in his place was just absurd. Both events Tom wasn’t doing anything or saying anything about her. She was the one constantly talking smack about him and trying to incite arguments. Lala and Scheana both (accurately) said how Tom cheating on Ariana was the best thing that’s ever happened to her. She never would have gotten all of the endorsements and work she did otherwise. And, frankly, any sponsors seeing her behavior now might have a change of heart. She might be upset about Tom having a “redemption tour,” but she’s really making it hard for viewers or her friends/castmates to take her side. Aside from all that, what’s with the outdoor bathtub at Scheana’s house? Is that “a thing”?

Yeah, Pastor Cal was really backpeddling there saying how we asked you to share your hopes and dreams, and it wasn’t meant to be a prescription of your future, and Chloe was suddenly chiming in that she doesn’t really expect to have 5 kiddos and 500+ (and once 7,240) animals. But everything we saw all season was Michael trying to compromise on 2 kiddos and a handful of animals, but she was really steadfast and adamant about sticking with her numbers. He was taking the avenue of if we stay married, here’s how I can see us compromising. And she never once participated in that conversation—even like, okay, what about 3 kiddos and 100 animals, or would you be willing to start with 2 and we’ll discuss from there whether we feel equipt to take on more kiddos? So if Chloe agrees that her future vision was a Me not a We endeavor, why would she expect that Michael would accept her Me as their We? Look at this man! Do you see him shoveling shit in these outfits?! I can almost see why they could work in that they had great chemistry and attraction and really great communication. If any of that meant more to Chloe to pursue and put aside her Me vision to develop a We vision together, we didn’t see it. She says that Michael changed near the end because he was all in earlier, but maybe he started to panic not because he wasn’t truly in it to get married, but he realized Chloe was not going to budge on the house with land, animals, and kiddos. Even when he said he wasn’t ready for that, she still insisted on looking at houses with enough property for a sanctuary right away. And granted, maybe it was prompted by the show, but it provided yet another venue for her to gush about her Me and not compromising with Michael on a We. ETA: You know what? Now I’m going to backpedal. After typing that all out, their communication wasn’t as great as it seemed. I think they’re both very polite and are smart enough to know the “right” things to say and way to behave during a disagreement. But they obviously were never able to scratch the surface of really digging into where they disagreed and compromising on a future they could both be happy with. Did Michael ever find out WHY this is so important to her? Maybe that part is an “off camera” conversation because I’m thinking there could be some trauma at the root of saving all of the unwanted animals and kiddos, but the “crunching the numbers” compromise talk seems to have never occurred other than them both just stating their preferred numbers, blinking at each other, then talking about something else.

This is exactly what I was going to post. Presumably the filming contract was for X date through X date. The show decides to drag this out an extra month to throw in an extra couple, that’s on you (show). Plus, it sounds like he already got “medical leave” for his surgeries, so there is no benefit for this man to show up. Everyone else who did go is just extending their 15 minutes of fame and making one last valiant effort to prove why they are right and their partner is wrong. I think Cam, Clare, and Brennan were the only ones who made the right decision not to go and relive the pizza party from hell. If this was under the guise of celebrating Chloe and Michael and bestowing them with warm wishes going into decision day, well, that really backfired. Orion and Lauren didn’t even last a week. Why are they pretending like these many end-of-journey parties are making them reconsider? The whole cast has said everything they need to say to their failed matches. We viewers have been thoroughly subjected to the protection gaslighting litigation. Enough already. Much respect to those cast members who are done. You did your after shows, we got a reunion coming up that no doubt will be more of the same. I have no doubt we’ll be seeing Becca and Emily for years on these reunion/reaction shows like we’re getting next week. I don’t think we’ll ever see Brennan or Cam again. And, frankly, who do you think is “here for the wrong reasons” (ie, reality TV fame and the opportunity to become a social media influencer) vs the “right reasons” (ie, to find love), as popularized by the Bachelor franchise? The people who take every opportunity to be on TV or the people who just want to get off the show and move on with their lives? ETA: Just to clarify, of course I think Emily and Becca were both genuinely here to find love. I just meant it’s “a good sign” for someone’s sincerity that they choose to forgo more filming opportunities and just want to move on with their lives. So I respect Cam, Brennan, and Clare for not showing up—despite any other red flag behavior they may have displayed throughout the rest of the experience.

Anyone can start threads for the episodes, cast, etc., in this forum. Oddly, for some reason the forum refuses to show up in my shows view even though I’ve followed it, and I think it was initially cross-linked to the thread, not the forum. Not to mention that it was accidentally called Van Der Pump Valley, not The Valley. However, if you go “one step back” from this thread (linked below) you can see the full Valley forum where you can create the separate threads, rather than continuing to put all show commentary in this one thread (and/or the one created in the Vanderpump Rules forum). Thoroughly confused yet? 😆 https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/8695-the-valley/

Was this the first time in a decade that Lala and Schwartz even had a conversation let alone a one-on-one filming?! Then when Lala also met up one-on-one with Sandy I realized girlfriend is just doing her part to stay on this show. At least she and Sandoval had some “history” of hating each other all these years that it almost made sense to have a big reconciliation talk. But Lala and Schwartz were like two coworkers from different departments who never go to the same meetings, but you’re aware that’s Chazz from Accounting happened to walk into the same juice bar and it’s like do I say hello or pretend I didn’t see him, but before you can decide Chazz walks up and starts in with the awkward small talk and now you have to pretend you care that Linda from Sales needed to get an emergency appendectomy.

I don’t have a source for this—my daughter said she “saw it all over social media” but apparently they offered it to Daisy and Maria and maybe even others but they all turned it down. And so they ended up going with Jen just the day before and that’s why she was so “unpolished” in that little announcement interview because she didn’t yet have any media training. Which, okay, fair—she was acting like a shots girl promoting a bar’s two-for-one special. But if that’s true, what the heck is going on behind the scenes that more than one woman turned it down?!? I also am dying to know what (and to whom) Rachel was ranting when Jesse said it’s time to have the Bachelorette conversation and called Daisy out. She was pissed! Was she the only one they didn’t ask to star?! Anyone see any of this speculation?