Alexander Pope

Chloe won this whole season! the queen among the guys! However much she can irritate me, I love to see it, since she got the last word. The other women must be furious. Re Emily--I have heard that narcissists are very hard to treat in therapy, almost impossible. And that scene we saw, if it was real, was evidence of how that works. Therapy is not just about feeling fantastic about yourself.

Like everyone else, I am sick of all these people but here are my few additional thoughts: 1. While Brennan has many faults, I so appreciated his often scathing BREVITY during the reunion. 2. Claire is more into Emily than she was ever into Cam. And if Cam masterminded the OPTICS for the group, I think Claire thinks she is the girl-boss of the women.

I too wasn't sure about the slow pace at first, but ultimately it really won me over. Partly because as many have pointed out, it was so beautifully shot. The architecture, the constant shots of sculpture (so expressive and mute), the stairs, the majestic and cold public spaces of train stations and banks, the many encounters with desk clerks (each of whom were compelling in their own right), were as important as the main characters. This resonated for me with what it feels like to read Highsmith (I have been reading a lot of her recently)--her leads are often hiding in public, being pursued, and her narration is somehow both mundane and compelling at once--her lead characters have interiority but it's conveyed through a lot of seemingly banal detail. This series really captured that IMO. On the subject of Marge--I think she didn't try too hard to help them find Dickie because as the last couple episodes made clear, his tragedy was helping her literary reputation. His death allowed her to make Vogue and get her book published. It has really haunted me after finishing it--something I can say about few other shows.

I always appreciate your careful thinking and eloquence, even when I don't always agree. And I respect your feminism! I am not surprised you earned that A.

The fact that Chloe consistently refers to her foster kids as "kiddos" tells me all I need to do about her fitness as a foster parent. I think she calls their pets kiddos too!

I like Lauren a lot better than Orion and I sympathized with her frustration at constantly being interrupted when they fought at the bar. But maybe if you don't want to be interrupted, talk less!! I thought Lauren was the biggest blowhard but then came Michael at decision day--omg!!!! how many words can one man say without saying anything!!

Sometimes--but he often chooses suit colors that are unfortunate. The brown suit on WTA was a hard no for me. Another time he wore a maroon suit that made him look like a concierge at a hotel. Jenn has always seemed flat and dull to me, especially on WTA, where everything she said was predictable. She is drop dead gorgeous but I think she would be a very boring bachelorette.

To flesh out the Emily cheating story--she made out with an Australian guy she met at a bar. Make of this what you will. Not sure why it was important that he was Australian, but it was amusing that it seemed to be. I don't know if this is what Brennan thought would "ruin" her, but it certainly gives more weight to concerns about her drinking. Chloe's weeping over the disabled cow was either her most over the top performance or her only sincere moment--I honestly can't tell which! And it seemed like she was almost equating fostering senior animals and fostering older "kiddos," which I found lowkey offensive, and completely clueless. What a narcissist!

She did have a necklace---a very delicate one Clay gave her (?). It didn't stand up to the dress. Agree that the slit was a bit too high. On another note, if I never have to hear Clay speak again, I will be a happy woman. What a load of hot air and cliches come out of his mouth on a regular basis--he was clearly nervous and so upped the chatting, but with all those words he was saying NOTHING. Just platitudes. Then Dad arrived and I saw where this trait came from--how many empty words is it possible for one man to say? all these meaningless affirmations when the real elephant in the room was his cheating made my head explode That's another reason why Clay's mom confronting him with plain and direct and well-chosen words was so intimate and powerful.

Brennan is no prize, and we are well rid of both of them. But I completely agree with the Jake/Hailey comparison. All that wiping away of Emily's tears at the end and treating her like a victim, along with Dr. Pia's obvious rage at Brennan was really gross, and I actually think it was sexist. At least Pepper offered Brennan support as well. I did however give Emily credit for going over to Brennan at the mean girl rooftop party, showing him some affection, and taking some accountability. She got major points from me for that.

As was I! I'm waiting for one of them to appear in a LOVE IS BLIND-style boob sling! I also found it odd that Claire decided to wear a strapless dress for D Day when there was obviously snow on the ground. Aren't they cold?? ETA: I see Kristen111 made the same observation. But the LIB boob sling is the final frontier when it come to revenge-motivated boobage display.

Did I miss something, or did Jimmy not explicitly say to Jess, "you're still my number one"? Is this not grounds for doubting Jimmy's commitment to Chelsea completely? Also, the other women like Laura because mean girls know how to command female allegiance. Laura was not particularly nice to Chelsea in the pods as I recall, but she is good at appearing concerned while also wanting to dominate. Jess is also mean.

I loved Jeramey's mom but continue to wonder why she chose to spell her son's name so oddly. I dislike Laura and her permanent snark/stank face/pissy superior attitude so much that I almost wanted to side with Jeramey on their last fight--but alas she was completely right. Laura's parents do seem to have her number.

I think she actually said to one of them, "you haven't proposed yet," as in, I won't know how I feel until you do it. Trevor is a smart dude and knows her well. She would have been so much better off with him.

The editing made me think that the conversation with his friend was the reason Austin packed up and left!

I agree that both Emily and Brennan are awful. And neither have any self awareness. But Emily wins on the lack of self awareness score. Her negativity came through loud and clear at the after party, every week. Trashing every other husband, filled with bitterness, getting in everyone's business. Of course she may have been post-divorce at time of filming, but the person who we have seen in those segments was deeply negative and unaware of how she comes off.

I give the editors special points for the dramatic CRACK the log in the fireplace made during the tensest moment in the rose ceremony! No notes!!

Austin needs to listen to Yoda. Chloe walked into the boxing gym like she expected a standing ovation! I think the boxing coach was amused. She is not all that!

yes it makes them both look a bit robotic/artificial IMO.

No, I think we are all on the same page. Maria is gorgeous but different and these mean girls, none of whom are sexy in the slightest, don't like it. We see it, they can't/won't.

Maria is not just gorgeous but sexy, and the latter is the problem. Jess is the odd one out and is definitely not in the same league as the others.

I remember he had a very mean uncle! but that's about it!

I agree with your take on Maria and would also add that "ladies" do not talk with their hands. By which I mean that I recognize her as a fellow ethnic NYer who would be similarly out of place in a group of sorority girls.

Couldn't agree more with all of this!! I also thought Sydney looked unwell throughout the date--she literally made herself sick over this! Her dinner dress didn't flatter her and made me wish she had actually eaten her dinner. Apparently "perspectivize" is a real word, and I think this makes me like Lea even less!!

Claire can cut a rug! I was surprised to see her really moving on the dance floor. And I admired her complete obliviousness as she chowed down while Lauren and Orion were "chatting."