statsgirl

Yes, in theory. In reality, I think Oliver Queen is only interesting to the EPs when he's in manpain.

Laurel and Roy sound completely pathetic with the "You have failed this city." Is this a metastatement for the new team? Also, way to SWM/SWF Oliver's fight for your own. Get your own crusade and logo, guys. While I can accommodate some changes, I just can't with Team Arrow being a democracy. Some people should get more vote than others, and twits who have just joined because they put on their sisters' clothes should have minimal vote. I asked him on twitter if since 3x09 was a '9', if 3x12 is a '10' does that mean there's sex? No one's surprise, he didn't answer. I really hope Oliver and Felicity fight over Merlyn helping, and that Felicity is on the "no, never going to happen" side. But if they do fight about a wounded Oliver going back into battle, hopefully that means she won't be hooking up with Ray because to go from being mad that Oliver is fighting to helping Ray fight and then date him would make her the biggest hypocrite ever. Not that this show wouldn't do that to make Laurel look better but I hope it doesn't. Who do I need to kill to keep any more good characters dying to prop Laurel. I wonder if there is a wall of pictures in the production office, one side those who have already died, next side those who are targeted next. Yes, it's all about making Laurel happen. And there are enough people who are happy with the Black Canary finally showing up that the EPs will be high fiving each other for it. It seems like Laurel is the special snowflake of the show (like 13 was on House) and all the rules for other characters go flying out the door for her. It's not going to be a true ensemble because already Laurel has more story time than Diggle much less Roy. And they'll never address everything that is wrong about Laurel because they'd have to get rid of the character. For her, killing is character growth. We'll be lucky if we get any retribution for fooling Quentin. I don't object to an ensemble show, there's plenty of them that I've loved, like Farscape and ER. I object to so much time spent on Laurel and Ray.

I think they told her to play it ambiguous. The EPs want to push this to be a O/E/R triangle so while they don't want her overtly encouraging Ray, they still want the Raylicity shippers (and there are quite a few on MG's tumblr and other boards) to be shipping. In my head canon, and possibly MG's, she's still so stunned by Oliver's death that she didn't take it as Ray caring for her romantically. Remember, this is the woman who last year said that finally a man takes an interest in her and then he ends up in a coma.

I think the EPs really want to sell it as romantic, hence AK saying that Felicity has two guys she can choose from. Will it work? For me, only if it's unreciprocated on Felicity's part. I'm fine with Palmer having a case of unrequited feelings for her because she's just that remarkable.

Oliver Queen is so impressive and SA so approachable that people tend to forget that he's really just a guy who likes sports and can lose his temper. If people keep sending him the clip, I understand him going "Why don't you just read before you send???" His point was that Oliver Queen needs more skills than just archery to he can't be as good as this guy. He could have made it better but it's still a valid point. I was playing around on youtube yesterday and came across a clip of SA and Cassandra leaving a hockey game and the pap coming up and asking if his abs were real or airbrushed. He joked around for a while which would have made a nice clip but the guy would stop it so finally he took his wife's hand and walked away. He's got more tolerance for idiots than I have.

I think the best things about this episode were the Maseo/Tatsu/Oliver scenes, and coming from someone who generally doesn't like the flashbacks, that's saying a lot. Or maybe it's saying little about what's going on in Starling City. I re-watched the Ray/Felicity "I realized I want to save you" scene. Ray is still selling it as kind of romantic, which is okay but too soon, but Felicity is more downplayed so you can read into it romantic or stunned as you want. It was never really brought up except I think once when Oliver told Laurel to tell her father and she said no. I think SA said in an interview that while Oliver feels that Quentin should be told, it's Laurel's decision. (Huh??? This isn't like she overate one night and then stuck her fingers down her throat so she may or may not be bulemic. ). It's never come up before in terms of the rest of the characters other than Dinah guessing two episodes ago.

The problem is that most show write triangles to delay the OTP, not to explore the characters themselves and see them grow. The Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle at the end of s1 was to up the angst for Tommy's death. The Oliver/Sara/Felicity and Oliver/Felicity/Ray ones are to delay Olicity. Maybe I wouldn't have the idea of Raylicity so much if I could believe that both Felicity's and Ray's characters would grow and learn during it rather than it being constructed for more of Oliver's manpain.. But really, with MG and AK helming what are the odds?

Orion, I love your whole post. But especially this part because I never quite thought of it that way before. The show has spent 2 1/2 building up these characters. We know that Oliver can be douchey and controlling but he has a good heart and he's determined to do right by his father and by his city. Diggle sees himself as a protector and he's the one responsible for the people around him; he even said last episode that he still saw himself as Oliver's bodyguard and failed. Thea is gutsy but is still rebelling and that makes her bitchy at times. Quentin Lance is a man of few world but deep beliefs which take a lot to change, and love for his family. If Ray suddenly started becoming the Boundary King, that would be out of character for him. "Out of character" means just that, the action is out of the character that the show has established the person to be. So when Diggle tells Laurel she's not a good enough fighter but then stays behind and lets Laurel and Roy go off on their own, that's out of character for him. When Felicity helps Laurel lie to her father, that's out of character for her. Because in order for there to be an "out", there must first be an "in". I think at this point, so soon after Oliver's death, for Felicity to go right into a romantic relationship with Ray just because he said he cared about her (words similar to Oliver's), it would be out of character for her. I don't mind the phone ping-ing because Felicity tends to take people at face value. At least, she has so far. Laurel spend 2 seasons barely noticing Diggle's and Felicity's existence, even inviting only Oliver to the end of the Anti-vigilante task squad and not them. This sudden BFF with Diggle and knowing about his brother, and the scenes with Felicity, seem out of character to me, although I can see why she likes Roy, he's young, can be intimidated (she thinks) and has a cool suit like her.

A scene I never want to see On the other hand The elevator scene was very cute. (I just have to block from my memory that Oliver went sex Laurel up right after.) He probably loved the scene in the mansion because it drove the audience crazy. I know he's really been pushing the 3x12 scene, saying it's a '10'. The goodbye in 3x09 was good although not as good as he promoted (he said it was a '9' because there was no sex). I'm just trying to wrap my mind around how could it be as horrible as I imagine it's going to be, and he still thinks it's a '10'.

But the EPs have always thought that the back-stabbing, lying incompetence are positives in her character. Look at MG saying that when we saw the deleted scene from 1x23, we would be sympathetic to Laurel staying behind at CNRI when everyone was telling her to leave. He was wrong, she looked like an incompetent idiot who couldn't think far enough ahead to have back-up copies, or enough sense to leave when she should so Tommy ended up dying unnecessarily. MG probably thought it was noble that she blamed The Hood for it.. Remember when Moira, as soon as she heard Malcolm say "Nanda Parbat" found out where it was and what it was and who Ra's al Ghul was and she offered him the location of Malcolm to keep him off her back? Truly an awesome, clever, gutsy woman, Starling City wouldn't be the same today if she were still alive.

I think it's too late for the 'comfort for a loved one's death' sex. Maybe immediately after she found out Oliver was dead (and I am so thankful we didn't get that), maybe when she's in a state of shock at the loss, but it's been two or more weeks now and she seems to be functioning just fine both at work and in the Arrow cave. So if she had sex with Ray at this point, it would be because she wanted to have sex with him. I agree she will be called names, it's already starting. But I disagree that Laurel was called horrible because she slept with Oliver after Tommy broke up with her. She cried all night when he did, she went to Oliver for advice on how to get him back and when Oliver told her to fight for him, she went to Tommy to do so. Oliver himself went to Tommy and told her to get back together with Laurel. But the first chance they got, Laurel and Oliver slept together in spite of all her protestations that she loved Tommy and his that Tommy was his best friend. And for that, both Oliver and Laurel were horrible imo. I think both Felicity and Diggle are being written OOC to make LaurelBC and Ray happen. The Diggle of s1 would never have stayed behind and let a newbie almost get killed in the field; the Felicity of s1 and 2 would never have condoned Laurel lying to Quentin much less helped her do it. (And again, why didn't Felicity just ask him for the information herself like she's always done before?) Because they are so popular, MG may be thinking that Felicity and Diggle are on stone solid ground. But it's not true, in TV, everyone is on quicksand. What I don't understand is why no one is saying "Look guys, we want an Atom spin-off here. Having Ray break up the one of the most popular ships on TV is not going to get us an audience."

Chronically single seems to me to describe someone who doesn't get into relationships, for whatever reason. I presume it wasn't because of her father because she was in a successful relationship with Cooper till the FBI stepped in. It's not because of her looks because she's gorgeous even when she's a geek, or her manners or a lack of intelligence or wit and desire for sex. So for whatever reason, that line told me that Felicity hasn't had any relationships that Donna would deem worthy of being called a relationship. In relationships you make your own luck. You may not find the perfect soulmate but you can have a decent relationship with someone nice, someone to go out with and watch movies with, to cuddle when you feel lonely, with a little effort and a little desire. If Felicity has been chronically single since her relationship with Cooper ended, it's because she's wanted to be single, and what happened to Cooper seems to me to be a reason for it.

Felicity told her mother "I'm sorry I'm chronically single" (or something like that) when they were having their fight so the imnpression was that even if she had dated, there wasn't a serious relationship since Cooper.

Wouldn't Felicity still have been at MIT 5 years ago, finishing up her degrees? Apparently not too distracted to flirt with Ray though. Or was she in a fugue state in that scene?

This. I don't mind Ray existing, I actually think I'd like him in a platonic friendship with Felicity, two science nerds working together on his suit, Ray still too much in love with Anna to even think about moving on to someone else. It's just the writers going to the sleaziest, old tropes in the world, Oliver seeing the kiss, Felicity almost kissing Ray when the tears are barely dry on her cheeks, that's what kills it for me. Ray realizing he wants to fight to protect the living and Felicity changing her mind and going back to Team Arrow would have been even stronger if they had a deep friendship and he wanted to protect his good friend, as Roy would. It's the love interest B.S. that kills Ray and the Olicity storyline for me. And kills Felicity's character even more. She stayed single for 5 years because of Cooper but she's moved on from Oliver in a week? Show, what are you doing to Felicity? And STFU Diggle if you're going to take sides. (See, even Diggle suffers from this Ray LI crap.)

Malcolm Merlyn commentary on Team Arrow is a show I would watch (more than this one we're seeing). I bet he would have lots to say about the shirtless parts. Perfect solution. She adds "I don't want to be a woman you love because I've already been loved by someone who wants to save the city, and frankly, it sucks."

SoundonSight review Arrow Ep. 3.11 “Midnight City” proves its secondary players aren’t quite ready for prime-time

MG's interview at assignmenttx (slightly spoilery till Wednesday) Translation: If you're like me and want the show to centre around O/D/F again, you're SOOL. It may be fun for him; it's painful for me to see what they're doing to Diggle and Felicity.

That was hilarious, and so true. Well worth reading.

True. But I think that stems from not realizing that fans were already upset that she hadn't told Lance. If you're feeling she's right for not telling him, it's not such a big step to appearing as Sara in front of him. But if you're already thinking what she's doing is wrong, then showing up like that is going to get you incensed.

That makes sense. Or if would but .... MG said on tumblr that he was surprised people were unhappy that Laurel hadn't told her father yet. So it seems like it's a "poor Laurel, she loves her father so much" thing and not "what a dumbass".

The last episode showed me that there is nothing they won't do to make Ray and Laurel happen. I think MG has left enough hints that right now they're going Oliver and Felicity in the end, partly because they won't want to tie Ray down if they're going to try for his own show, but he can do a lot of damage to Felicity's character before they get there. or Ugh. Are they really going to try to pull that off? ETA: I just looked at the sneak peek again and noticed 2 things: 1. Laurel asks how they did this for so long and Roy replies "We had Oliver." That doesn't fit with Diggle telling Oliver that he has to step back because they can do this without him now. 2. Felicity, looking for "doors we can kick down, I mean you can kick down" (ugh, enough with the 'Laurel is now a badass' propping), finds that the gun Brick used to kill the alderman is the same as the one that shot Rebecca. If the police have already done ballistics on the bullet and put it into their data base, why didn't they figure out it was the same one already? I pretty much couldn't watch Midnight City. Did Roy and Laurel pick up the gun as they were jumping out the window? How did the police get it then, because I think Brick would have taken it with him if he could.

I'm trying to understand why the writing picked Laurel to pretend to be Sara to get the info on Brick from Lance. It would have made much more sense for Felicity to call him directly because he knows she's the Arrow's tech person, he even asked her why the Arrow wasn't around in this episode. And even ADA Laurel could have got the info from him because nominally at least she's on the side of the law. All this makes no sense at all. Were we supposed to feel sorry for Laurel that she's so upset to be lying to her father?

I'm afraid Felicity will give her seal of approval too. Because all of Team Arrow is stupid this season.

True, Lance would have told Felicity. He might even have told Laurel as an ADA. There was NO REASON to fake Sara's voice. This at the same time that MG is saying in interviews that Felicity is the Team's moral centre. They should have just gone making Laurel evil, or at least dark grey. It would have worked for the story, it would have worked for the character, and it would have worked for KC's acting.