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Couldn't agree with you more. +a zillion I expect them to unfortunately. However, I keep hoping that after the disasters this year either Dabb will learn or Pedowitz will step in. I don't think there is hope for Singer. He has the option of just retiring.

All the apparent behind the scenes drama right now makes me sad. TPTB getting caught spinning absolute falsehoods to the fans when they kill off characters is disheartening to say the least. With the Js talk of 6 or 8 episode seasons, I wouldn't be surprised if season 13 is 13 episodes.

Hmmm..just sort of rewatched 22. Only watched what I liked: Grenade launcher, Dean/Jody, Dean Mary, Dean/Ketch fight. Didn't take very long.

I think even the simple tweet like your talking about would ignite a deluge of anti Dabb/ Michaels tweets on J2Ms timelines. This is one case IMO it's better to publically leave it alone for now. I suspect they will say something at the next con.

I could be snarky and say something about how the PTB are already not writing for Jensen so there isn't anything new they could really do to him if he spoke up a little. Jared on the other hand has more to lose getting them mad at him. JMO. Actually, I'm assuming they spoke to Mark privately and I'm upset at Dabb, not J2M. I think if J2M said anything on Twitter, the fan meltdown in their timelines would be epic and just make things worse than they are. The fans wouldn't rip J2M much I don't think but there would be an avalanche coming at Dabb and Company.

That does suck.

Kind of sad that I don't watch SPN for the actors looks. However, if I want company to watch an episode with me, all I have to say is "Have you ever seen Jensen Ackles on a 120" screen?" Never had anyone turn me down yet. :-) I thought Amazon counts on the + viewers. Netflix is a whole different ballgame as SPN gets their money from the contract for mass viewing instead of each time someone watches an episode. I may be totally wrong though.

When the Blu-ray comes out hasn't changed has it? They usually don't come out until a few weeks before the new season so that gives you a long wait @Wayward Son

I will do that and let you know what I think.

I purchase each season on Amazon so I can stream each episode the next morning with no commercials (on a 120" screen. Yes I'm blessed). I find I see so much more of the facial acting on a big screen and it's easier to notice all the little things. Episodes flow much better without the commercials. I always like them a little better to a lot better when they aren't broken up so bad by commercials.

I forgot they were paired next year. Makes sense. I think that's a good pairing too. Does that mean I should watch the last two episodes of Arrow? They have been sitting on my DVR (along with the last two of Flash) and I had been considering just deleting them.

So if I do a rewatch of season 12, which is the appropriate thread to comment?

4 in finale but 5 for the year. I actually expect Arrow to lose more steam. Whether it falls below SpN depends on what kind of a disaster Dabb gives us and how far SPN falls next year.

I thought Arrow had 1.7 million but I could be wrong. I forgot about legends. SPN may have been 5th then.

Did I hear correctly that SPN finished behind Flash, Supergirl, and Arrow in finale ratings?

I think I understood that. Maybe there is hope for me. :-)

Let's just agree I'm kind of dense sometimes and tend more to concrete thing. Sometimes the more abstract confuses me a little. I've read this several times and am just not finding anything specific that helps me to better understand where you are coming from. How about we just accept that we have differing ideas on this one and that we both feel we have sound reasons for our opinions. Thank you for taking the time to try and explain your thought process to me. Its obvious you carefully considered my question along with your answer and I really appreciate it. I'm sure there will be other things about SPN we will want to discuss. :-)

I found this. http://www.kens5.com/mb/news/local/texas/actor-jared-padalecki-advocates-for-davids-law-at-texas-capitol/443326065

Or Jensen spins gold out of straw.

I much prefer John. I always found him very interesting and thought JDM was excellent.

And IMO, you give the writers a lot of credit which I doubt they earned. I personally don't think a writing staff that pretty much has trouble keeping even the mytharc stuff straight is capable of this kind of nuance and long term planning. And Dabb has already demonstrated, IMO, that he isn't that interested in Dean's storyline anyway so I don't look for him to have put this kind of thought into it. What over the past two seasons have you seen that display this depth of forethought and planning on an emotional arc? Just curious. I am trying to understand where you get the confidence in the writers you have.

We were never given any indication of that on screen. In fact, I would argue we were shown more of the opposite. But we were never shown she could get into his head that well. If she understood his thoughts and feelings we wouldn't have seen her confused by Dean and his reactions. I don't give the writers that much credit. I usually go with the obvious, not the convoluted concerning their character development. They usually aren't nuanced in the writing IMO. They like anvils when they have something specific. And it could be what your saying. I just lean the other way. Actually, I do agree that's overthinking it. I really doubt the writers think about it that much. Unfortunately I doubt we'll ever know. Even if they came out and said something now, there would be tons of well deserved speculation that they were just trying to take undeserved credit for a happy accident. Man, you just condensed everything I said into two sentences and even simplified it more. I really suck at this.

I understand your just speculating and anything is possible. I wish they hadn't. :-(

I would be really surprised. I don't think even Dabb is crazy enough to want to face the absolute firestorm that would cause. I like Cas but am not a super fan and even I recognize how badly Dabb would be stepping in it. :-)

Possibly being demoted to reoccurring instead of regular. Speculation there too.