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I just pulled up an episode Cas wasn't in because I wanted to make sure as I usually don't pay any attention to credits. Misha does not show on the credits so I WAS WRONG. SORRY!! Even if he doesn't, his agent sure should. Plus, credits affect future jobs and future pay so I hope Jensen cares. He seems pretty career savy.

When your a regular, your name appears in the credits whether you are in the episode or not. Anyway, that's what I've seen. It's guest stars or reoccurring characters that are only listed in episodes they are in I thought.

This I never noticed this so I looked it up. According to everything I found, the "and" gives Misha top billing over Jensen. Can I throw a temper tantrum now?

I really really really hope that isn't the case. I really really really don't want this to be a result of problems between cast members. :-(

Ahhh!!

Showrunner and writers. The showrunner is responsible for guiding the storyline and the quality of the writing. IMO

Such a wasted opportunity. Wish you could have given them writing tips.

Ahhh.OK. I would have liked it to continue but not with Demon Dean being a joke.

If that were the case Mark S would have come right out and said it instead of letting the fan animosity start over a false premise so, IMO, not a chance. Possible but not probable. He could have been hired after the original blowup, whatever that was, with Mark S. IMO, not a chance. They may not want him to go ( make that probably) but if there wasn't a whole lot of tension between Mark and the powers that be, IMO, they would have commented publicly if even just to be polite. Stars normally comment when a high profile costar leaves just for their personal PR whether they like the person or not. Agreed that we don't know what happened but we do know it wasn't exactly friendly.

Creative writing could have kept DemonDean in fanfiction without making HIM a joke. They could have kept the storyline if they wanted. We have seen the gymnastics TPTB go through to keep something they want. It was obvious they had absolutely no desire to keep the storyline.

Not interested in a Jody and Donna spinoff in the slightest. When J2 hangs it up, I'm done too.

Bad writing explains it all :-)

If that was the case, there wouldn't be the undercurrent of animosity.

Ackles announce twins and everybody decides they can't get left behind. LOL

And they had made Mick (IMO) AN interesting character that could have been utilized. Instead, they killed him off just like every other character that shows promise. I can't stand the corporate America no personality theme for demons and angels. It is possible to write the boys physically not together without viewers feeling like they are. Separate..not separated if that makes sense. Probably not. I am too and always will be. It would be nice if the showrunner/writers had some original thoughts.

LOL

I thought Dabb said something preseason about toning it down and said you couldn't go bigger than God and his sister. I must be remembering wrong because we got Lucifer back and now his all powerful son.

This!

If the intent was an apology to Dean then it should/would have been written into the bunker scene. Instead Sam does the I was afraid to lead nonsense. In other words, IMO, the speech had nothing to do with Sam apologizing to Dean. Also, none of the bad that the BMoL did was a result of Sam working with them. Mary yes, but she was in their camp before Sam. Sam didn't have anything to apologize to the hunters about. It was just a convoluted speech, iMO, written to demonstrate the redemption of the flawed hero so he could lead the hunters to save the day. Unfortunately, these writers, under Dabb just aren't that good at redemptive arc. Just look at Mary.

Same here unfortunately.

I only put that because there was some discussion on the content (to much how Mary's deal affected Sam instead of Dean) but it was a much better written speech for sure.

I have to laugh because I'm sure both Berens and Dabb couldn't wait for Sam to deliver what they thought would be the climax of the episode (including the raid on the BMoL). Instead, a lot of Sam fans are like "WHAT?" And Jensen's delivery (not necessarily content) of the Mary dream speech seemed to be the biggest hit ( judging by social media) and Berens/ Dabb were left sitting there wondering what in the heck happened. Don't these stupid fans understand anything. Of course, this is just how I see it and I kind of need a laugh with all the behind the scenes drama right now

I have only been here four years. I don't remember it ever being quite this bad with so many fans during that period but I could easily be wrong. I just see a difference between the previous being unhappy and the outright anger right now.

Dean fans are furious. Cas fans are furious. Crowley fans are furious. Rowena and Eileen fans are furious. Only ones not ready to riot are Sam fans although some of them aren't real happy. Way to go Dabb/Singer.