PAForrest

I don't know, I really like Curtis Armstrong! 😍

I honestly don't even believe they were "invited" to this pitch. I think the Js thought they'd have a chance to have some input - they literally talked about that after the announcement - and probably asked for the meeting. Since they were allowed no input at all - and that's really height of disrespect to the leads of a 15 year show - I have to assume Drabb used the opportunity to just tell them the broadstrokes of his not so grand finale. There may have been some details, but would Drabb have told Jensen outright he was going to make his character look ridiculous in his death? Possibly. When Jensen says they were told take it or leave it, given the fact that Jared loved it and apparently didn't care that Jensen didn't, I suspect that line was directed solely at Jensen. Would Jensen have been as upset as he was simply just to hear that Dean dies like days after it looked they won, regardless of how it happened? Yes, I really do, because it is a sucky ending for his character - finally free, except not you, Dean. Neener neener.

I can't watch it again either - I still have it on the dvr, but I really can't bring myself to watch it. But when I do, at least it's packaged to where I can FF and simply ignore Samantha's porn star wigged life. It has nothing to do with Dean, so I don't have to give a damn anymore - and I don't. What's weird is how frankly depressing Sam's life was. I personally don't think we're supposed to believe he ever hooked up with Eileen again. He doesn't mention her in 19 or 20. No, I think what happened, given the blatant Walker promo insert (also annoying AF) and Sam going to Austin, is that he hooked up with some rando broodmare - because that's literally all she was - so he could get a little Dean. The kid seemed to be all he cared about, when he cared about anything. The broodmare is never given a face and isn't by his bedside when he dies, and he doesn't go to her in Heaven if we're supposed to assume she's not there because she died first. Either way, she's irrelevant to us and obviously even more so to Sam. Wow, what a happy life. Yes, it's a Wincester's wet dream (gag me), but in the real world it's just pathetic. However, I had an epiphany about Dean's "heaven" last night after reading a fix-it fic - because now that's what I have to do to find a decent ending for Dean, since Drabb refused to give him one. And it dawned on me after reading this one fic why Dean's heaven scenes didn't work either - aside from being given no thought by the "writer". Every born again Drabb devotee is claiming Dean was at peace, except that's not how Jensen played it at all, which is interesting. Dean didn't even look especially happy to see Bobby, and when he's sitting on the porch with him he actually looked bored AF. The only time he perks up is when he sees heaven Baby, and decides to go for a drive. And again, because Drabb refused to put even an ounce of thought into Dean's heaven, all we see is the guy driving around - not taking the opportunity everyone claims he always wanted to visit family or friends. No, literally all he does is drive. Why? It finally struck me that driving Baby is the closest thing Dean knows to life as he remembers it. Driving Baby feels like living - because he really does want more life. Dean does not look happy or content in heaven, except in the car and finally reuniting with Sam at the end. But for Dean, heaven regardless of whether it's a prison cell or an open garden is still not life. It is not the peace when he is done everyone promised. For Dean Winchester, heaven is purposeless and boring.

Honestly, the way the last two episodes looked and felt - very off, very unreal, VERY one-dimensional - I think it might be a whole lot easier to do a 6-episode fix-it after all.

Absolutely way too soon! Especially since, dude, you deserved a million times better than you got. Oh Jensen, always trying to make the best of a bad situation - and in this case, a suck ass script. But that attitude will serve him well in the future. Thanks for being that guy, Jensen, and the one I will follow hereafter.

I really needed this today! Thanks!

Is the site working now? Geez. Yeah, dying on a rusty nail, in possibly the most stupid way a writer could end Dean Winchester, is bad enough. But having to expend all his dying breath blowing smoke up Sam's ass was just cruel. And then, naturally, Samantha can't muster up even one compliment - to his FREAKING DYING BROTHER. Not one. He's definitely Mary's son. I still say Dean ain't. You did Samantha no favors whatsoever with me, Drabb. Shame on you. eta: Or what gonzosgirrl said. I think we posted at the same time. LOL! But seriously, you're right, Drabb killed the "us" for "you" (aka Samantha). Wow, nothing but low blows.

Jensen is way too self-deprecating, especially when it comes to JP, like he feels he has to be. Hopefully with everyone moving on in their separate lives he'll stop doing that sooner than later. Because without Jensen Ackles giving everything to a script that wasn't good enough for him and quite blatantly did not do right by his 15 year iconic character, as he always felt it didn't, this episode would have really sucked.

Yeah, I agree. There's really no way of bringing the brothers back again for one more ride.

On the upside, Jensen Ackles continued to the bitter end to be so much better than the scripts deserved, especially those of the Drabb era. I hope he will enjoy the recognition that is truly due him in everything he does from this point on. But it's crystal clear to me what he didn't like about this ending - Dean dying an inglorious stupid death, complete with Sam being all concussed, yet again, but still managing to get up and take out all the vamps all by himself. I think Dean got one before he was completely taken over as if he'd never fought before in his entire life. Pure Dabb to the end - and that is no compliment. So I can't blame Jensen - his character deserved a much better send-off, even without the COVID changes. I feel bad for him being so very disappointed with how his character ended. It was petty. But he sold it like a champ and Jensen being Jensen is quite literally the only thing that made the scene work - that and Sam's grief. At least that felt genuine, and it did look like Sam really didn't enjoy his life as much as he should have with Dean being gone. The bad wigs certainly didn't help matters. Woof. I wonder if Misha will spill this weekend as to if there were changes that eliminated him from even appearing in a cameo. At least we heard that Queen Gack bothered to save him from the Empty and bring him back to Heaven to help restructure the place. So that plot point was addressed. Still nothing as to if the Empty was eliminated or changed, but Heaven was the more important fix that had to happen. And we didn't have to endure actually seeing Gack again, which I appreciated. I liked the scene between Dean and Original Recipe Bobby. I really hope Dean did more with his time in heaven than drive around until Sam died. The final scene between the brothers was lovely, though, I admit. I'll have to watch this again. Not overly satisfying, but I didn't think it would be. It was pretty by-the-numbers, almost exactly as many fans predicted. But there were some well-acted scenes, and it was sweet that Dean adopted Miracle. Too bad he couldn't enjoy his company longer than he did. I think that was the saddest part of all.

Yeah, I perked up at that line too. Fingers crossed!

Oh Jensen. 😭😭😭😭

I think the pie in the face may be an adlib. If you look off to Jensen's left, you see Bob Singer a couple times - blurry, but it's him. And he's laughing about the pie in the face, so I think it was an adlib. I hope this is Sam's hallucination, because Dean being so blase about Cas dying for him - AFTER he told him he loved him - makes no sense at all. If it isn't a hallucination, looks petty on the part of the writer. And no, you wouldn't be human if you didn't want to lick Dean's eyelashes - or his entire face! LOL! There's definitely going to be death, and probably both - but at what point and how is the question.

A good strong finale can help to mitigate the sadness of a beloved series ending. This season has not been that, unfortunately, so the last 42 minutes of this show have a tall order I fear they couldn't meet under the best of circumstances - i.e., having a good showrunner and good writers who really cared. We didn't have those and haven't for years. And I certainly didn't appreciate hearing from Jensen's most recent interview with EW that Dabb and Co. showed the Js heavy disrespect when they had their first and last meeting with the writers and were told, essentially, 'suck it up, princesses - this is what we're doing whether you like it or not.' Seriously, why did they even invite the Js to the meeting if they were going to have no input? Petty to the end, and that's not a good look. So I'm not at all confident. And yet, I still hope the finale is at least not disrespectful. Because I am going to miss the characters. Not the show so much, because it's been an endless stream of frustration for years - so much storytelling potential squandered. But no matter what I will miss the characters, and especially my beloved Dean. I love these guys and regardless of what Dabb does, that won't change. Yeah, I'm going to miss them a lot - and it's going to hurt a lot to let them go. I'm already sad.

Now that is pretty cool!

There's still conflicting information as to whether Misha was in Vancouver and shot for 20 or not. At this point we obviously just have to wait until tomorrow. Thematically, no, it makes zero sense that Cas doesn't appear again, or that Queen Gack is too much of poop head to bother to save him. Only makes that character more unlikable than he already was. And the COVID excuse doesn't fly either since Eugenie was certainly able to drag Pellegrino back for one more lame cameo. Obviously Jake Abel and Rob Benedict were brought in to quarantine, as well as the chick who played Two Minute Death Betty - unless she's a Canuck (I don't know). And we know Jim Beaver came to Vancouver to shoot 20, and chances are his part is only a cameo. So there is quite literally no good reason they couldn't bring Misha back for the episode. If he was supposed to be in 20 originally, absolutely nothing had to change. The man lives in Bellingham - he was closer to the border than Pellegrino, Beaver, Benedict, and Abel. He could have started quarantining immediately - or even before they shot 19. Again, wait and see.

Honestly, that was kind of my thinking - that the last song would have to be more melodious, less hard rock. So a ballad version of Carry On would ironically work.

That's interesting. Yeah, we know they'll use Carry On because they always have. It's the signature song. But will they play it not just in the opening montage but again at the end? Or will they use another classic song, assuming they could even afford it?

I think he said it was for Amazon Prime, and I believe the project is his friend Darius's - so I'm guessing that's the movie he was referring to.

Probably as good a guess as any. Honestly, I assume the only reason the last episode is focusing on the Winchesters at all - when the entire season didn't and the mytharc had little to do with them - is because it was a stipulation of the WB/CW. I'm sure there will be death - one or both, at this point it really doesn't even matter anymore. But I feel like whatever happens is purposely going to be very mundane. Watching them go through the day, doing a hunt, yada, yada. Maybe someone dies. BM moment or two. The end. Oh, and another obligatory montage at the beginning of the episode, because that's usually where it's placed in the last episode of every season.

Drabb talked to his actor insert - apparently everyone got talked to by someone about what would happen this year except for Jensen. But Drabb told Alex upfront what his story was going to be, they always knew Gack would be crowned Queen. Maybe he didn't know the details of how much the two leads were going to get pushed to the background. But sorry, Alex knew it was his character's story. My point is, he should have kept his mouth shut instead of trying to spin it, because now it feels like rubbing salt in the wound. He didn't write the scripts, but he knew the general endgame - and that endgame was not his character supporting the Winchesters, it was exactly the other way around.

I don't remember now who said it in one of the other threads, but the poster nailed it. Drabb took Kripke's show and used it as the foundation for his own spin-off for the glory of his Mary Sues. That's what we've been forced to watch the last four years, with he and his producers outright telling us over and over again that the Winchesters were worthless without Chuck, did nothing on their own, only mattered because Chuck mattered at the time. All this denigration of the Js' 15-year-long devotion to the show culminated with Drabb's own narcissistic insert scorching the earth of everything that was Kripke's and crowning himself Queen Gack of the Universe instead. It's actually really embarrassing. I sincerely do want a damn fix-it, because this is crap. I know we probably will never get one, but that's what I'm taking away from the end of the show - a desire for a do-over. I walked away from this last episode absolutely loathing the character of Jack/Gack - where before I was just indifferent because he was a boring chore. More than that, though, it made me resent the actor too. Alex outright lied last year when he claimed that his character and everyone else was just there to support the Winchesters - which I know he said on the heels of seeing online complaints that the show had turned into Jacknatural, 'cuz it had. But as we've seen this year, that claim about supporting the Winchesters wasn't even a little bit true. He knew perfectly well then that he was Drabb's insert and that the only story being pushed forward was his, and that Jack was going to be pathetically held up as the lone hero of the universe Drabb stole for himself and his ego.

No question whatsoever that was the saddest strongest written character death in the history of this show. I would say Dean being torn apart by Hell Hounds and dragged to Hell - you know, back when it was legit a terrifying fate - stands up as the second most gut-wrenching death of the series. But yeah, I actually cried when Ellen and Jo died. The again, these deaths happened in excellent scripts written by really good strong writers. Something we were simply not fortunate enough to enjoy the last few years, and especially in this last season. Castiel's death was beautiful and sad in the moment. But what is sadder is how after the last four years it was mostly unearned and out of nowhere, with no build up to his confession of love. Certainly it's the best thing Berens has written in his entire tenure under Drabb, but those 10 minutes are too little too late, much as I may have loved the scene in and of itself. It will never not be painfully sad that the show is limping out this way, with the real heroes of the show reduced to useless as tits on a bull side characters, forced to try and sell an unearned guest star's tale of raging narcissism instead.

Oh, there are other holes. Like when Ruby informed Cas that the Empty was actually mental torture porn - not a nothing sleep at all. So if Drabb's little pissant insert Gack can't be bothered to at least save Cas, the guy who spent the last four years caring almost solely about Gack - and at this point there's no reason to believe Gack cares, because he made it clear he didn't care to be involved - then what a truly crappy ending for one fan favorite. Then there's the announcement early in the season by the 6 angels who were left that Heaven was dying because there weren't enough angels to keep it running, and when there were no more, Heaven is no more - and thus all the souls go nowhere. Again, another horrible ending for one or both of the Winchesters if there isn't even a reward of peace in Heaven. And Heaven itself needs to be restructured from the locked door memorex cages. This is where I thought the Garden in the Occultum was going to come into play - but have we heard word one about any of that? Nope. We weren't told if everyone who went poof - Eileen, Donna, the AU crowd, etc., etc. - were returned. Sam didn't seem especially concerned if they did. Maybe we'll know next week, because it makes zero sense that they were among the "everyone we lost" montage. It can't just be the people in Hastings that Gack bothered to return and no one else.

No, standing/laying there allowing yourself to be pummeled is not "active" at all. It wasn't in Suck Song, it isn't here, and you're not going to sell it that way. They were essentially turtles on their backs flailing away. And for all their "sacrifice", the smug brat doesn't even thank them. Just takes his shiny power toys and walks away.