PAForrest

We're dumping our cable and going to a streaming service the end of the week, which means getting rid of the DVR we currently have. So the decision was made for me as to when to rewatch the finale off the DVR - now or never. And maybe because I anticipated watching it again with all the joy of going in for a colonoscopy, I ended up not hating it as much as I had the first time it aired - which upon re-reading my initial thoughts, was not as badly as I came to feel about it very shortly thereafter. It's still not a good enough finale for a 15 year show, and a lead playing the most iconic character is treated shabbily in favor of shoehorning in promo hints for a new CW show. Mark Pedowitz should be slapped repeatedly for including them. Too much is missing and unaddressed, and too much doesn't work. But a lot of what doesn't work actually leaves a wide open door for revisiting the Winchesters & Co. down the line. And I can see where the average viewer would be fine with the finale, except for probably wondering where Castiel or some of the other characters were. The biggest annoyance continues to be why Dean's life had to be cut short so soon after the events in 19. Why not indicate some time lapse? Costs nothing to do that in editing, and would make it less problematic even as to why Sam isn't with Eileen anymore. With a time lapse they simply could have grown apart. With barely a week or two having been, we assume, un-Thanos'ed, the question remains why she no longer factors in Sam's life? The dog, cute as he is with Dean, really doesn't make sense. Did Dean go back and steal Miracle from the owners he was clearly running toward in 19? But we never saw the dog in the car with the brothers or in the bunker at the end of 19 . Honestly, Miracle's appearance in 20 makes everything in that episode from the opening scene feel very off - like the entire thing is an AU version of Supernatural's end. And maybe it is? I missed this Easter egg the first time around, but this time I saw it - Castiel's trenchcoat in the trunk of Dean's car, which the camera clearly focuses on for a couple seconds before Dean opens the boot to take out the weapons for the vamp hunt in the barn. Obviously a nod to Misha who was screwed out of appearing in the finale, which I fully believe he was supposed to be in. And my feeling is this is a detail Jensen probably came up with, as he did with Misha for the hand-print in 18, and as he did back in season 7 with Dean keeping Cas's trenchcoat after Leviathan'ed Cas disappears under the water. It's a gesture, but also feels unreal given the way Cas was taken via the Empty. It shouldn't be there, but it is. The vamp fight in the barn is not as awful for Dean as it felt the first time around. Jensen gets the bulk of the stunt work because he's good at it - it's why Sam is rendered unconscious for a time. When that happens, Dean is overwhelmed because all the vamps focus on him. And after Sam pops up and kills Jenny - who no one needed to see again - Dean no longer has his weapon and is only fighting with his fists. So that explains why he doesn't get to lop off anymore heads. Jensen also gets all the dialog in Dean's death scene, which is only fair at that point, even if the dialog is to blow smoke up Sam's ass. Jared at least brings legit devastated emotion. There's still no reason not to have Sam say something to Dean, like "I love you" or "You were the best big brother a guy could ever have." But there's something about this damn Winchester family - they could almost never say anything nice to Dean to the bitter end. Annoying AF. We immediately see again that it's always been Sam who cannot live without Dean. It's also obvious he has not told anyone Dean is dead. Otherwise why does Donna suggest to the guy in Austin to call Agent Bon Jovi aka Dean on Dean's other phone? That's why no mourners at Dean's pyre. No one knows he's dead at that point. I've already suggested that the episode can be rewound to Dean's death scene as being a coma dream of everything that happens thereafter. Second time around it's obvious Dean's Heaven is just a soundless, flat, unpopulated TV/movie set. But in watching the episode again, I realized it's just as easy to go with the idea that Dean dies, but so does Sam on the werewolf hunt in Austin a week or two later; and that's why he appears in record time to Dean in Heaven looking like he did when Dean died. Sam is clearly leaving the bunker for good with Miracle to go to Austin, but the dog who already feels like an imagined component no longer appears in Sam's supposed blurry sad life; and he should have at least been alive and in the park with Sam and the Dean stand-in evidenced by the name blazoned on his Oshkosh. Aside from the blurry broodmare and the creepy picture shrine of no one except BTS shots of the Winchesters and one lone pic of Sam's supposed kid - his Dean stand-in - the other very unreal part of Sam's "life" is the house. It's very dark and old-fashioned - and it never changes from the time Sam is doing homework on the old dining table to the time he dies many years later in the even more dated livingroom. What's weirder is that the interior of the house looks almost identical to Bobby's house - and that would make sense if everything that happens is Sam's dying dream of a life he thinks Dean would have wanted him to live with a faceless "wife" he can't quite envision. Aside from the bunker, which isn't a house, the only home Dean and Sam would really know as a constant in their lives is Bobby's. What if on the way out to Austin, Sam makes a detour to give Jody or Donna the keys to the bunker and the dog. Then he goes to Austin, still grief-stricken and alone, and commits suicide by werewolf pack, even if it wasn't a conscious choice? Given the weird one-dimensional scenes of Sam's life, it works almost too easily. That was the biggest takeaway for me from the second viewing of this episode. The episode honestly doesn't feel real in terms of the universe the series is supposed to be set in. The whole 40 minutes feel like a fever dream.

Deets on the complete series set coming out in May.

Me too, and I noticed he sounded weirdly younger! Definitely lost his Dean voice. LOL! I love the instant dad mode - "tell me what hurts," while all the while he's the one hurting. Awwwwwwwww. Looks like they're all having fun.

The man can make anything work. He certainly doesn't have to worry about losing hair, for goodness sakes! Interesting tidbit from back in the day. Looks like he never lost that dream - maybe the ranch part, but a cabin in the CO mountains works just as well, if not better since I doubt the Ackles are ever going to be into ranching as a full time job. I do believe the idea of the mountain cabin was kickstarted again mostly due to COVID. Someone also pointed out to me that one can get a direct flight from Denver to Toronto, 3 hours. Can't do that from Austin. So if the border ever opens up and the quarantine rules are lifted, going back and forth between Denver and Toronto would be easy - assuming his work is extended in Toronto or something else comes up later that also films in Canada.

I gravitate back and forth between wanting Jensen to go back at some point and fix this shit, and OTOH hoping he never thinks about it again mostly because he's just too damn busy doing other better projects. But the last two episodes are really horrible the more I think about it - and I didn't think they were even a little good the first time around. I sincerely feel like the CW should have just ended it at 18, waited until a couple years post-pandemic, and did what they could at the time to get the band back together for a bigger 2-hour wrap-up movie where maybe they could have done it ... if not completely right, then better than the epic fail we got. There were too many dropped plot points and characters we should have seen again. None of it works. There were at least two comments on twitter by EMTs who bashed Sam for not calling an ambulance and said Dean could have been saved, no question. Which I too assumed at the time, and it certainly made me go out of the series hating Sam for failing Dean on such a grand scale. If that's not the take-away the CW wanted, whoops, too bad so sad. But the point being, they actually could quite easily rewind to that moment in the barn after Dean loses consciousness, then have Sam do the right thing by calling an ambulance, and everything else is Dean's coma fever dream. Given how one-dimensional and unreal things are portrayed after Dean's death, that's a super easy sell. It would almost be a crime if someone didn't rewrite everything from that point - and not just fan fiction writers. As for those pesky deets about angels and bloodlines being the reason Dean couldn't have one or two little Deans/Deannas running around, please, when has this show ever been completely on point with the deets - even back when the writing was actually good and not the crapfest we were dealt the last few years? Especially when it came to Dean? No, even at its absolute best, details slipped through the wide open cracks. So I say there could still be someone out there who is Dean's biological progeny. Given that it's Dean Winchester, it would a crying shame for humanity if there wasn't. Fever Dream Dean II was just another slap in the face of Dean fans. Like we were supposed to be so thrilled that they killed off this wildly popular iconic character less than 20 minutes into the last episode, write him completely out of another quarter of the episode, and instead try and replace him with some blurry broodmare's brat that Sam names Dean - because, gosh, that's not even a little tone deaf. Sorry, the brat II could never replace the REAL Dean Winchester. He only works as an hallucination.

Definitely. And I'm surprised - I guess the family won't be going after all, which is going to be lonely for Jensen. But he's definitely got his first SB look happening given what they asked him to do with the beard and the hair - at least for his first appearance. I'm assuming the look will change after that.

I honestly don't recall the part about Lisa DNA testing Ben from their introductory episode in season 3. All these years I came away with the impression that she was either lying to Dean or honestly didn't know who the father was. But let's assume she does know who the father is, and it wasn't Dean. I guess it makes sense as it's been pointed out how Lisa was a part-time yoga instructor living in a big ass expensive-looking house, so it is likely she'd been collecting child support from a guy who was willing to do the right thing financially, but still didn't appear to have any interest in being part of his child's life. However, I personally didn't like Gamble bringing Lisa back in at the end of season five and early season six - and that was her choice, not Kripke's - because doing so was part of her plan to sideline Dean and remove him from his role as Michael's vessel. Then there was that way off-base crap she thought she was going to pull in season six that Dawn Ostroff was on board with in supposedly turning Sam into Dean and vice versa. All that proved is that Gamble had zero idea who Dean Winchester was. Hell, for as in love with Jared and Sam as she was, she apparently had no idea who Sam Winchester was either. I think Dean cared for Lisa and Ben a lot, but he was never comfortable in his skin when he was with them. It wasn't the life he wanted at all. He may have thought it was something he wanted when Gamble and Kripke had him spout lines to that respect in season five to lay the groundwork for removing him from his role, but Jensen never bought it and he never played it as Dean buying into it either, because it's not what he wanted for Dean. When Lisa and Ben were one-offs, it was easier to head-canon that Ben may have been Dean's. But that idea crashed and burned during the year Dean was parked at their house. It's really not believable that Lisa would continue to lie if she was thinking they would possibly stay together. I do think Ben was very attached to Dean - and what young boy wouldn't be, especially one who never had a father figure before. But he wasn't biologically Dean's child. That being said, I also agree that for as sexually active as Dean clearly was all his life, chances are there's at least one child out there who is his that he never knew about - and of course never will. Screw you CW. This explanation is the only thing that works, and it's doable and possibly what Gamble had in mind anyway, because I remember discussions about how just removing Dean from their memories wouldn't protect them at all. It makes a lot more sense that Cas altered reality around them so that they never existed as part of Dean's life in the first place. They were simply some of the billions of people walking through life on this earth who never had anything to do with the Winchesters, therefore there would never be any reason for angels or demons to specifically target them.

And I actually agree with you. I honestly don't believe Jensen purposely gave a bad performance, because I don't think he meant to portray Dean as free from burden despite what I'm sure the script and the CW wanted, and that's kind of the point. He's too good an actor, and we know he all too often acted against the writing over the 15 years. So either he was freshly pissed about how bad the ending was for his favorite character in the universe, or more likely he purposely played Dean as being off and not exactly thrilled to be there. Dean didn't even act happy to see Bobby, and that's quite unlike Dean too. Maybe he was too busy thinking about how he could go back in five years and fix this hot mess.

There is a Walker forum. Looks like they have episode threads, just like here. I think there are a few posters from here over there too.

Absolutely! I hope Danneel will start posting more goodies here in 2021! If they didn't buy that place, then they probably signed a year lease that started in December. Yeah, one doesn't normally make changes to a rental. However, some landlords will allow you to paint if you want to. Knowing Danneel, any changes she did make to a rental would only improve the place. They certainly like adventures!

Exactly. Why the showrunners and an entire network would want to dismiss the fan base of their most popular character will never ever make sense. That's not the way it usually works on any other tv series. Chad is sweet, though. I saw him at the very last con I attended, and he was a really nice guy to everyone. He was the last person signing autographs on the day he was there because he wanted to talk to everyone in the line, and he wouldn't leave until everyone was signed. And it was running late that day. Having Harvell's roadside bar in Dean's heaven with absolutely no one there to greet Dean except crotchety old Bobby who wouldn't even get out of his chair is what made Dean's heaven so bleak and sad. COVID was a piss poor excuse for not even having Ellen there, whose bar it was - played by a Canadian who would have been happy to do it - and/or Ash, Jo ... or literally anyone else on the Canadian side, at least. Not when they turned around and crammed an entire production team shoulder to shoulder on that stupid bridge, no masks, no social distancing. I remember how fun it was to have Ash in Dark Side of the Moon. Ash was the original character who tore down heaven's walls before Jack and Cas got around to it. He certainly would have livened up such a dismal scene at the end. The roadhouse set was exactly that - a cheap set piece, nothing more. Memorex heaven. Did Jack and Cas really make any changes at all? It didn't look that way. I hope Dean got out. A friend wondered why they didn't at the very least have music coming out of the bar, had Dean open the door and everyone yelling his name? Something, anything? That would have cost them nothing to do. There was literally zero effort put into Dean's tiny part of the story. It was the final insult. Honestly, even Jensen looked like he couldn't get into it that day. If he was supposed to be selling a Dean who felt suddenly free of all burden, I have to say it's one of the few times I felt Jensen failed in his performance. 😭 I still miss the guy. I wonder what AU Dean is up to? Where were they - somewhere in South America?

Very bittersweet, and a lot of viewers are still really raw where it concerns how Dean was treated at the end. There's a lot of anger out there, and I don't think that's going away anytime soon, if ever. And in general a lot of people are simply missing the character badly. Again, maybe they wouldn't as much if the ending hadn't literally trashed him barely a week after their "win", stupid as it was, and gave him zero future just 'cuz. Bittersweet with heavy on the BITTER.

Kripke's birthday post to Dean.

I'm thinking second home. He did hashtag about moving the family. That may be how they could get into Canada much earlier than he needed to be for The Boys. Obviously with COVID restrictions there's no way to fly back and forth between Canada and Austin, and they're not going to want to be apart for 6-8 months. Sure, the border will probably open up within that time, but I'm guessing quarantine restrictions are likely to stay in place longer. And who knows, they may be thinking of projects via their production company that will be produced in Hollywood North - Toronto or Vancouver.

Good to know since I'd hate for the third season to look remarkably different from seasons 1 & 2 due to COVID restrictions that will hopefully lighten up as the numbers start going down again and the vaccines are being distributed.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAN WINCHESTER! I don't know what the hell the CW thought they were doing, but they were wrong. That wasn't your end. We know better. So have a great day with your toes in the sand and Miracle by your side! 🍺🐕🎉

That was a lovely vid. Given one of the things Jensen said about the individual continuing to fight, I wondered if it was something along the lines of a Make a Wish vid. I'm pretty positive at least once they had a Make a Wish participant at the set. Of course, with COVID these folks can't get set visits anymore, and that's a pretty popular wish. Very sad. But Jensen was so sweet, and you can see at the time a little verklempt himself that it's wrapping up. And yes, I too am very much looking forward to Jensen on The Boys! He may finally be in Toronto now. And he's going to be very busy there for most of the year, it sounds like. Hopefully we'll see a shot of the super suit soon! That is gorgeous. I still despise the finale and the crap ending Dean got, but that is a beautiful rendition of his arrival in Heaven.

That could explain it. I went to Amazon and the final season dvd hasn't been released yet, and there's no release date attached to it. At this point maybe they'll just give it up and not bother since it's already airing on TNT. There are a couple of sets that claim to be full series sets, but I didn't actually look closely at them to see if that's the case. Funny, I haven't bought any dvds since season five. The last couple of years, especially after the final season was announced, I thought to myself that I'd wait and see how the series ends. If it had a decent enough ending, I'd spring for a series set just to have it since I gave the damn thing 15 years of my life. Of course, the ending was shit, so the upside is I'm saving money I would have spent on a series set that I won't now. The finale is still sitting on my dvr too, mocking me every time I go to the dvr to watch something else I've recorded. I dvr'd it that night thinking if it was good I'd watch a few more times before deleting it. Again, since it wasn't good, I haven't watched it - or any Supernatural - since that night. I'm going to give it 6 months. If I haven't watched the damn thing in 6 months - or at this point 4 more months since it's already been 2 - then I'll delete it unwatched. Sad.

They were airing the last episodes on TNT? I haven't watched a second of SPN anywhere since the awful finale. I didn't realize TNT already had the rights to the last season. Yeah, there's a whole lot better they could have done. Almost anything else would have been better than that, certainly for Dean.

It's obvious Dean himself was looking beyond hunting - which is just thing #212 that makes Dean's death so tragic and awful for fans to deal with. Not a "success story". But Dean definitely wasn't telling Sam to never hunt again. Dean wasn't specifying at all what Sam should or should not do, though Dean did tell Sam he had the ability to carry on hunting without him. Dean also did not specify who Sam should or should not marry. We don't even know if Eileen was still hunting at that point - or if useless Gack ever brought her back. But the one thing season 15 canon tells us on multiple occasions is that Dean thought Eileen was a good match for Sam. I don't know why they didn't bring Eileen back in, or even just insinuate that Sam hooked up with her. It just feels like Dabb and/or the network made the decision that suddenly no one else in the entire SPN universe should exist anymore in the last episode.

This. Yes, it's like Jared remembers nothing at all from before the pandemic hiatus. Like the entire series is a blur for him. Maybe it is. Or maybe he just didn't want Sam paired up with Eileen, and that's a whole other argument. But this scene was re-posted on twitter yesterday in response to that tone deaf comment. And let's not forget in the Wood Nymph episode, which was - what, 15:14? - where Dean is literally not calling Sam for help because he wants him and Eileen to have sex. As far back as Last Call he's again encouraging Sam to stay in the bunker with Eileen and get it on. So Jared is about 90 kinds of wrong here. And that includes describing Dean's ridiculous petty death as a "success story". For the love of god, man, read the room. He maybe should just stop talking about SPN from here on out and focus on Walker, because he managed to piss off at least two fan groups yesterday in one fell swoop. I agree with Icarus about the chemistry thing - no, Sam and Eileen didn't have much chemistry. But Sam didn't have a lot of chemistry with anyone other than Dean and maybe somewhat with Ruby 2 because he and Gen were a real couple. But chemistry was a problem where it came to Sam over the years, so I chose to ignore that and still thought Eileen was a decent choice for Sam's endgame. Certainly better than the blurry broodmare who wasn't even with him at the end. That Walker cover should probably be posted in the Walker forum.

Seriously. How much more Dean hate could you possibly want than that? 😡

I remember the waning days of TWOP where pretty much 90-95% of Dean fans just left about a year or so before the whole site finally shut down because there was no point in staying. It got so you weren't allowed to say anything positive about Dean or Jensen even in the Dean/Jensen thread. I remember we all stopped posting at one point in the Dean/Jensen thread and one of the mods finally came in and said something like "why did you stop posting - don't stop posting." Talk about tone deaf. Of course, once Dean/Jensen fans stopped posting, the board started dying. D'oh. In fact, years before that, before the final Dean-fan purge, at least one poster created a forum just for Dean/Jensen fans because of the crap that was always happening to Dean fans on TWOP. So it's not like we weren't always targeted there. If you're that interested in Dean/Jensen hate, just go to twitter or tumblr.

Yes he is, and very PC. But that's part of why we love him - he's a genuinely good guy. And yes the hair is to die for! I also love his pet names for Misha and Danneel - Mish and Dee. Sweet.

OMG that tik-tok is all of us! 😍 And I would love-love-LOVE Jensen and Bradley to team up on something, anything, even a cameo appearance. Fandom worlds colliding!