tessathereaper

And considering he'd not long before found out that once again Sam had just ditched him, didn't even try to find out what happened when he went to Purgatory and abandoned Kevin as well, honest it's pretty easy to see why Dean wouldn't have overcome it in 8.06. :)

Apparently one of the writers they hired(can't remember his name) used to work on Fringe and I believe that show involved alternate timelines, and all sorts of weird stuff. I think they are going to make full use of a lot of that stuff.

He basically turns around and does the same to Ryan. So the cycle continues. I mean it's obviously beyond what Mallory just said, because it's due to his father and how he was raised but it's interesting how she insulted him about his father then Butcher turned around and did something similar to Ryan. I agree, he was raging, but I also think it's because he's insecure. Most toxic masculinity is underscored by insecurity. Men who are actually secure generally aren't toxic. Insecurity isn't an excuse for those actions, just a reason behind them.

Well Robbie is one, I can't remember his name but a writer from Fringe is also part of it now, so if this going to have any sort of multiple reality/time travel/changed history shenanigans, he probably has experience(I guess? I never watched Fringe but I seem to recall it did some trippy stuff)

The trailer has over a million views, lots of people know about it, a few fans at conventions asking questions is not going to affect the ratings. Jensen has answered the questions about Canon, he's not going to give the details because it's literally spoiling the plot of the show to do so. If they choose not to believe him when he says they will be sticking with canon, that canon will not be affected, him repeating it again and again isn't going to change anything.

Oh my GOD!!! That is THE story I always wanted. Literally, my dream ending, I've talked about it a bunch of times. I always knew there was a reason I liked Edlund(I mean besides his being a great writer of course LOL). And it made sense too.

I feel like we basically did, they showed Kimiko just breaking his arm for no reason(and I think we see him getting blasted by Starlight too). Everyone was guessing it had something to do with the testing the Temp V healing powers, but I wonder if that's ALL he got. (Please, no "Son of Love Sausage" LOL)

Jensen Ackles brought a good energy to it. Yeah Beau Arlen fit right in. I'm sure we'll find there is some less than noble reason for this next season at some point, but until then I liked the "Three Tequilateers" at the end. And again I feel like it's a way they can actually highlight Jenny and Cassie's relationship rather than take away from it. When it comes to the writing of the show, I kind of feel like sometime you just have to accept that a show is not going to be realistic and go with the flow. Big Sky has pretty much been like this for most of it's run, so things are going to happen that would never fly in real life. Yes it's got lots of bad people and weird situations and people die left and right, but sometimes the "unreality" is comforting, in a similar way procedurals can be.

Oh I agree, IMO that whole "anger" thing was basically made up out of nowhere and forced on the character near the end of the show but what I'm saying is THAT is actually an explanation for that supposed anger, they claimed he felt. If he feels angry? Well dammit I cannot blame him. It's the anger of frustration, disappointment, impossible expectations no one else is expected to meet, etc, etc. 5.14, I'm pretty sure that IS why Famine told Dean that, Dean gave everything to others, he didn't even feel he deserved anything, so that's why he didn't hunger.

I sometimes think this show was some sort of massive social experiment. And what it showed is unfortunately not good. IE Many people have few critical thinking skills and simply believe what they are told, even when their own eyes and the situation says something different. Because throughout much of the show we have Dean doing something, behaving a certain and being painted in the wrong by the narrative when he's not. He's lied to, he's betrayed, HE is treated as being in the wrong for being upset about it, for trying to set ANY boundaries. He's even painted as being at fault for THEM treating him badly and made to apologize for either imaginary or very minor in comparison reasons for causing THEIR behavior. Dean behaves in a certain way, we're TOLD it's the opposite. Throughout the show, we see Dean function, if not perfectly fine, then at least not too badly all things considered, on his own, in new situations, with new people. He actually makes friends pretty easily. He's a natural leader. But we are TOLD "he can't be alone, he can't function alone" etc etc. Meanwhile Sam and others, who have totally unreasonable expectations of behavior from Dean(and only Dean) are treated as sympathetic and right for demanding Dean behave how THEY want him to, which is always to their own benefit, and almost never Dean's. We see Sam and others who can't seem to function well without Dean in their lives and we're told they are fine and somehow it's Dean's fault for their behavior. They can have the most unreasonable "boundaries" and it's fine, but Dean isn't allowed to have ANY. He must at all times forgive any of their transgressions against him, immediately and without any lingering effects, as if those transgressions had never happened. He is in the wrong for not immediately putting aside all his own trauma and focusing on them, and even when he is, this is used against him as he is called "weak" for it. Or as mentioned above, Dean was never shown to self-pitying and yet he was constantly called out for it by other characters or the writers. Sam was frequently shown to be self-pitying. Now in the end they COULD have used it, this they COULD have made it at least slightly worthwhile - Chuck wrote all this right? THIS was his game, making up=down and right=left, etc. Because hell why not? He could do what he wanted, let's see how far he could take it. It became worse as time went by because as we know he really wanted to break Dean and Dean damn him kept finding a way out. Dean's angry and he doesn't know why? Well THIS is why. ANYONE would be angry being forced to live the way Dean has, with the unreasonable expectations put upon when he can plainly see that other people are not held to the same. But of course that isn't what Dabb wanted and by the end he had writers who had all drunk the Dabb Kool Aid most of whom had barely watched the show.

I don't think so, he's told that story and jokes about it. Sure it was a little uncomfortable, new set, new crew, new cast - first scene he filmed after meeting everyone, but he laughs about it. So i don't think that was it. And they've said repeatedly it had nothing to do with the orgy so it probably didn't have anything to do with sex. I really think it had to either with extreme violence or degradation and who it was directed towards. It's also important to point out he DID the scene, but some adjustments were made to it so it was probably less graphic or perhaps some change in dialogue.

Yes he did. I'm pretty sure his ending was Dean and Sam both going into the pit. That changed because they got a season 6 and Sera Gamble the new showrunner wanted the ending we got to Season 5 to set up her Season 6.

I've always felt like this happened. Jensen possibly broached the subject of an SPN spinoff(and he was constantly talking about it during the interviews for the finale episodes, how he wanted more, etc) and Jared was so caught up in Walker and his new thing, he even called it his passion project in a way SPN never was in at least one interview, that he kind of blew it off in a well "yeah sure maybe some day" kind of way. I mean The Winchesters may have come as a surprise but IMO the fact that Jensen used his new production company to make an SPN show didn't actually seem to be that big a shock to most Jensen fans I know precisely because he was talking about it all the time in interviews. In which case it's pretty easy to see why he'd go his own way without him, maybe figuring "Well once I get all the work done of getting the rights, getting it all in place, etc, I'll tell him and maybe he'll be more excited about being part of it, but I'll do it in such a way that if he doesn't want to do it, the show can still work". I really think he was just planning on it being a surprise, a nice surprise for Jared, but then the leak happened when they'd only just tied up the rights and gotten permission to write a script. The leak happened as soon as they had reached the first step in the actual official creative process. Everything prior to that was just business, getting the rights to characters, setting up financing, etc. At that point the show was purely hypothetical, all of the previous work is basically for nothing if the network says "nope we don't authorize a first script to look at to potentially developing into a pilot". More likely than not Jensen was planning on telling Jared very soon after that, when he had a couple hours of downtime to really talk to him about their ideas, etc, had the leak not happened. Jensen has said as much, he wanted to get all that in place and then tell Jared and find out what he wanted his involvement to be, if any. No just because Jared played a character does not mean he therefore gets a stake in OTHER people's creative projects in the universe. As for Robbie's involvement, Et Tu Brute is a bit much when at most Robbie would have been a writer on Walker doing a few episodes a year, which doesn't exactly seem to be on a subject matter where his interests lie anyway(nearly all his writing is in genre whether TV show or comic book). Robbie has a right to take any job he wants, it's not disloyal to want to work on something that interests you. And we don't even know if that is the case, there is no particular reason to believe Robbie was asked to write for Walker but again, if he had been, why would he want to? There is nothing about the premise that would appear to be in the areas of his interest. Does that therefore mean he can't work on any other projects with any other SPN people?

As I recall Kripke's original plans for Swan Song was that BOTH brothers end up trapped in the cage as their respective angel vessels. There was no happy ending for anyone. BUT it did actually leave the door open to potential sequels, you know somehow the Winchesters figure a way out of their dilemna, or someone else does and gets them out, that sort of thing.

haha Good, I hope so. I hate that kid(not the actor, nothing to do with the actor). Literary symmetry doesn't necessarily mean "exactly the same thing". Even if the opposite happens it's still symmetrical - the symmetry of say Dean expecting to die early in the first season as compared to Dean looking for living for years to come is still symmetry. Or if Sam had died, Dean being unwilling to live with Sam dead(as opposed to not being able to live without him) as compared to Dean accepting it and still living a fullfilling life, that also would have been symmetry. If you'd seen the first couple episodes and then the finale, and that's it, the characters would have shown zero growth or experience, it would be like "yeah that makes sense" but only because you don't know about the 15 seasons worth of episodes in between.. Maybe it made some sort of sense for where the characters were in Season 1 but it didn't for Season 15. You know that's an interesting idea, we could potentially see them.

If Swan Song had been the end then Dean would have been Michael, Sam would have been Lucifer then I think BOTH would have jumped in the cage, or one would have dragged the other into the cage with him. Adam would have been a non-entity, he wouldn't have been part of it, he'd have been a footnote like *Season 4 episode Jump The Shark Dean and Sam discover they have a half brother, but he was killed by ghouls". The End.

Well many of the same issues facing Dean and Sam face John and Mary. Under it all the reason Dean and Sam's lives were so fucked up is because they were Chuck's "endgame", for his story, his apocalypse, John and Mary were also needed for that endgame, so they too would be the victims of various strategems(by angels, demons, and anything else or anyone else Chuck wanted to use) to make sure that Dean and Sam were in place. Just like with Dean and Sam, loving each other doesn't necessarily mean it's perfect. And I really like the idea people are going with that John wasn't really suited to hunting, his temperament, etc and it started to change him in unhealthy ways.

Basically this. Unfortunately I doubt we'll get a change in the finale but may make it seem less finale if we can have knowledge that Dean is still fighting the good fight. I really only expect the mission to be a framing device, a reason for telling John and Mary's story, but Dean will have a purpose. The thing is I think originally it was supposed to take place between 15.19 and 15.20, while Dean was still alive so if they changed that then the context changes a bit too and actually I like the idea kind of better if this is him after 15.20 because again, Dean is existing and doing things, not just aimlessly driving around Heaven.

I think it's mainly because Homelander is clean shaven and has very blond hair and Antony has dark hair and sometimes, facial hair. LOL Plus proving that Clark Kent COULD have disguised himself just by wearing glasses. :)

At SXSW Kripke said the scene didn't have to do with Herogasm. I have a feeling it was probably more violence related and who the violence was against, maybe a child or something.

Sure but I mean lots of single mothers deal with that so hopefully they will not leave her son with relatives next season too that's all I mean. Simply because they don't want to deal basically with her being a mother.

I can't remember the exactly words he used but he did basically say he wanted to make it virtually impossible for the show to have anywhere to go in the future.

Right? It looked good. How does AFTER Mary's death help with understanding his parents relationship? She's dead, there is no relationship. Dean KNOWS about what John turned into, he lived it, he experienced first hand and he suffered for it. Yes when it was happening at first he was too little to fully understand but he could look back on it and do so. And given that Sam was going down much the same obsessed path at one point in relationship to Jessica's death, except Dean was there to point it out, clearly simply knowing about the supernatural does not therefore mean you'll deal with things in a good way. And don't even mention the abomination that is Dean 2(no blame on the actor of course), it felt like Dabb was using the excuse of naming kids after relatives as a way to erase Dean. He figured the only way to do a new show was with another character named Dean Winchester to replace our Dean after he purposely tried to make sure there was no possible way forward(which he said he wanted to make it as hard as possible to do another show, he wanted to make sure HE had the last word, which he certainly didn't deserve). I have little doubt he did it as an insult. Now as for changing Dean's story? If this takes place after 15.20 and before Sam gets there that right there will change Dean's story - he actually isn't just driving a highway waiting for Sam. That's something that actually is helpful because I know I had a problem with "Oh Dean just drives waiting for Sam, it won't take long heaven time but yeah he doesn't do anything, he doesn't visit anyone, his life in heaven won't even start until Sam shows up". ETA: That picture of Jensen and Drake was cute. A lot of people are like that with eyedrops, they need someone else to put them in. All I know is that these young actors seem really sweet and very excited.

I remember in the episode Cassie came back(was it 2.15?) she mentioned something about her son staying with someone, I guess it was relatives? Does seem weird but typical TV to think it's A-OK to chuck a kid off to relatives when a major loss has happened in their lives, because that's such a good way to make them feel secure. Let's hope next season they remember she has a son and bring him back at the start(without any SORAS happening - soap opera rapid aging syndrome, kid goes away for summer camp, comes back 10 years older). That said I still really have enjoyed the show and am looking forward to finishing up the eps I still haven't seen to fill in some of the blanks and to next season.