catrox14

Which is completely unusual for Jensen. He makes deliberate choices for Dean so if he is not disengaged, then I wonder if he decided to play Dean as detached because Michael didn't fully leave Dean? Left some of his grace behind? Or at least another back door. I mean other then Dabb just deciding to scuttle Michael in the most unceremonious manner, why wouldn't Michael still use Dean as his spy especially if he wanted to corrupt Jack? The is just no reason for this aside from trying turn this into his Nougatnaural spinoff.

Sadly, I think it will be Steve Yockey

Hers what I don't understand. Jack's soul is supposed to be gone so how can there be a battle for it? Will it be discovered there is a holding place for Jack's soul? Sam could be re ensouled in S6 because Dean went to Death to help, the huge difference being Sam's soul was still intact. By all account, Jack's like Lily's, was being burned off as in destroyed....and I just realized that is another lift from early seasons SPN when being in hell burned off your soul making you a demon. So really, if using angel magic burns off the human soul, shouldn't they turn into a demon? How much you wanna bet that's what they are going to do. Make Jack part demon, part angel and then he kills Lucifer for reals this time and Jack is the new big bad for s15. I am so tired of Nougatnatural.

At this point, would they really call Lucifer or Nick an "old friend". I wonder if it's going to be Donatello coming back to help Jack. Claire is possible. I just can't with the "PR" for this show. It's garbage.

My wildass spec is they are going to do something with the box and don't want Jack to figure it out so they are acting cagey which is stupid in and of itself if Jack already knows about the box which maybe he doesn't?

This was stupid. I don't fault Michonne at all for killing those kids.

It's online open vote to all. Should only be one vote per IP address during the final rounds. I can tell you I voted for only two categories this time. I thought it was weird that Alex who is Canadian, didn't even get a nom for Jack. My guess is that Lucifer, Jack, and Gabriel fans came out for that episode. Scoobynatural seemed like a shoo in so I didn't bother to vote. Whoops

I was actually agreeing that Mitch did a good job making Grampy Campbell an asshole. Sorry if my comment seemed to be 'splaining. Wasn't my intention.

Stephen Amell decided to leave thus Arrow will end. I don't think the ratings had anything to do with the episode order for s8. I think that had more to do with what SA was willing to do.

I think we were supposed to hate him and as such I think Mitch played it well.

JFC, is there anything this guy can't do?? He's amazing!

My point was more that Sam's attachment to Amelia even after learning her husband was back, he still chose for a little while at least to stay with her. I didn't have the impression it was a day or so that he decided but that he stayed with her for at least a few more weeks, essentially until Amelia gave him an ultimatum. Thus, for me, the current crop under Dabb (save Yockey) could easily throw in some way for Sam to be love with Cassie in an instant and then she dumps him fast...and it wouldn't be wildly outside of Sam's wheelhouse IMO. And would be another big thing for Dean that is redone and reduced via doing it for Sam. As an aside, I would like for the show to take one iconic Sam moment and hand it to Dean, to have it reduced in the same way. Although, given Jensen's fantastic playing between what's on the page, he might elevate it further than intended HEH. u

Sam did choose to stick with Amelia for awhile after her husband came back from being KIA....

Sorry, if my post seemed to be in opposition to your comment. That wasn't my intention. I was basically agreeing with you and adding on. Sorry if that wasn't clear. That would require that assistant writer having watched s1 through s3 other than whilst in the background cleaning...so we might avoid that! LOL

Or the mayor pinged on what his victims yearn for on some level,so his ability to control them was made easier because they were happier there than facing whatever trauma befell them. And I think Sam still wants out of the life and he can't admit it to himself. If Dabb is trying to undo Carver's era, and take Sam back to who he seems to interpret him as, then he has to return Sam to only hunting because of his family dragged him back into it vs what his heart really wants. Maybe they should find another magic pearl and find out Sam's true heart...

And Dabb wrote that episode and his assistant just lifted that and put it in her episode. even in that side by side with comparison, there is so much history of Dean getting to the point that he would take out Castiel in s10 and the context is so completely different. Yet if one only sees it on the surface level it will look the same but it's not. There was passion (not romantic) in the Prisoner because of Dean's awful situation and real fear that he would kill Cas.makes me wonder if Dabb actually wrote the Prisoner! So totally different.

Not quite the same. The point of Sam being out in The End was to show Dean an alternative future that centered around Sam and Lucifer. Dean/Jensen had the heavy lifting time wise in that and Jared had a major scene playing Lucifer for the first time. And In the Beginning, Sam's absence was again to show Dean something important about Sam's life and what Dean had to do to help Sam which was Central to the episode. Sam was still key to Optimism. Jack seeing Donatello could have been done by Castiel or Sam even better who was you know, actually soulless. Sam and Cas hunting together doesn't mesh for me. They gave Cas lines that sounded like Dean especially the Scanners quip. Of course, this just fuels my ongoing headcanon that they are going to kill off Dean for real and the pairing of Sam and Cas is to get the auidence used to that pairing vs Dean and Cas. The only instory reason I can see for Dean to be the one to talk to Jack is setting up Dean to kill him later when and if he goes medium dark side. And worse, it was weird that Dean suddenly had trouble talking to Jack about being soulless when he had no trouble talking to him about other things. The awkwardness of that convo fit Cas way more than Dean. Its almost like they filpped Dean and Cas parts on this story but didn't change the lines to fit the characters. Now, if Jensen had to be written out, I can't see it being solely about the Mardi Gras King thing. So, maybe, there is something else... Much bigger than that he was doing. That's my story and sticking to it.

Ugh, if they kill Donna, I will throw things. She is my fav

I'm wondering if Michael is actually not dead and lurking inside Jack and he's making Jack kill the snake leading to killing those around Dean. I would love it if Dean ends up as Michael's vessel again because he pops out of Jack powered up with some of Jack's own grace and he tells Dean he will resurrect everyone if Dean says yes (a laMary) and because Michael will think he has broken Dean to his core and Dean says yes, but this time, he is still strong enough to lock Michael away, and he puts himself into the box. Of course, given "Jack in the box" is coming up, maybe Jack asks Dean to put him in the box because he's become a threat to all humanity. Sam and Cas could reject Dean because he did what Jack asked and that is why Dean is in the woods alone, crying. Because the two people he counted on, abandoned him at his hour of need because Dean wasn willing to find another way. Wishlist is Michael takes Dean again because if Dean loses everyone that could leave Dean feeling so bereft that Michael has a chance to get him again. And Michael uses Dean to go after Chuck. I just don't want to believe that Michael is really dead and his goal of finding Chuck is pointless. Other than Jensen, the only other actor I want to see play Michael is Christian Keyes. Hmmm, maybe will get Christian!Michael fighting Nickifer... for Jack? And the fight to the death, means both die in their long term vessels. Maybe Christian Keyes vessel wants Michael back...

I think you are on to something here. So basically Jack is going to do bad things for what he thinks is a good reason thus keeping his precious NougatSue status intact. And it's a redux of the angel in s9 who thought he was helping by killing them.

FTR, I wasn't joking. She lost her thumb during a motorcycle collision.

That moment was the highlight of the episode for me. That is the deft comic timing that Jensen does so well. His reaction shiftt from talking to Jack, seeing the food box, and opening only to see rats was perfect. Not OTT nor too broad. Impeccable timing and voice control.

This episode reminds me that Sam and Cas together don't work for me, at least not an entire episode. I don't think they have the same chemistry as Dean and Cas. (YMMV). I also don't think Cas had a good story here. He was basically the exposition mouthpiece explaining the entire thing. And what he can force people to confess other than Donatello? And that's now a thing for him....but he couldn't figure out that Michael left a peephole behind with Dean? I never want to see Sam wear a bun. He looked awful with that hairstyle. There is zero continuity in this show...except for dredging up Dabb's old script with Dean being scared of things. This could have been okay if it had any pacing and any logic. And Jack...well...I just kind of could tolerate him but not anymore. I am not here for NougatNatural. UGH

Except for someone who lost their thumb like my friend did... 😉

IMO, it's plot driven now for the most part which is why characterization goes out the window. And then at the last minute they try to shove in bullet point characterization to salve the holes that the plot drives through character.