ReadMeLattice

I don't like Nathan because he has that similar Jenelle's World tendency of blaming everything on everyone else. "The brat always get what she wants." Wellllll, maybe, but your continued arrests for violence and disruption and your ongoing addiction *might* play a role in the judge's decision, perhaps? Especially since both you and Jenelle have ANOTHER kid that you don't have any custody of? Personally I can't ever have any love for him-- anybody who abuses their partners and doesn't come out and own up to it and work on it actively is a piece of shit, man or woman. Hence my ongoing hatred for Amber, Kail, & David as well. I took it as she just wasn't ready to discuss it with producers yet? Which is ultra stupid because it was so incredibly obvious? Personally I didn't see anything wrong with how C/C handled Aubree. She is a cute, sweet kid, but she is spoiled (at least partly Chelsea's fault) and sometimes bratty.

Yeah, I really don't get the point of her on this show and I'm still wondering what exactly she adds. She's another not-very-bright bad decision maker. Let's go home from The Club and do it raw? Who does that in 2017? And why should I care about either one of those people? I just feel bad for the baby. She did seem a little serious about adoption and that likely would have been a better choice.

@Linny, 100% everything! Kail needs to quit being so extra. Every moment with her would just be EXHAUSTING. She is literally mad all. the. time. I did feel a tiny bit bad for Brianna just because realizing you made that *dumb* of a decision while you're pregnant and the guy, who made just as dumb of a decision, can just walk away if he wants, would suck. Biology is unfair. Also I'm 38 weeks pregnant and fucking over it so I feel bad for all other pregnant women. lol. The fight over Kaiser between Jenelle and Nathan is like watching two rabid dogs fight over a chipmunk. Whoever gets it will destroy it. When I watch Barb and Jenelle fight over Jace, I have some degree of satisfaction knowing that with one of those two he'll be safe. Not the case here. I already know not to get excited about Leah's school for even a moment because she's dropped out.

Especially when your relationship is based entirely on shared trauma and bad decisions. They did a lot of drugs way too early, had a lot of sex way too early, had abusive, toxic, and neglectful homes, and then had a child they placed for adoption. Those are the foundational realities of their relationship. They have zero shared interests or values, no chemistry, and no shared goals. They don't even seem like good friends or like they have fun together. Whether you get together in 7th grade or in your 40s, there has to be something binding you together besides "we've seen some shit." Unfortunately it basically traps them together, as does the show. What would either of them do with another person who didn't just want to sit around talking about goals they won't ever achieve, their past trauma, and Carly all the damn time?

I would honestly rather someone just posed in a bikini and was obviously showing off. It's the weird trying to pretend that's NOT what you're doing that bugs me. Just show off your stomach if you want to show off your stomach!

Whatever her motives, I thought it was really positive that Isaac still has a relationship with Javi. As much of a dick as he was to Jo, Javi loves Isaac and I'm glad they continue to have a relationship. Kailyn's motives are probably selfish but whatever is best for the kids. Let's just hope she doesn't change her mind the next time she decides to manipulate in some other way. I was really afraid that she would try to keep Isaac from Javi, so if she wants to dump him off to screw other dudes or lay around or whatever, I'm happy.

Oo, are we playing this game? I call Amber or Adam, if they can't hit back. I have what I think is an unhealthy hatred for Amber. I really, really hated Adam ever since the "little mistake" text too.

Yeah, I've always found Jenelle's body quite cute, both when chubbier and thinner. She makes her face look hard with the way she does her makeup. It would be better if she was hideous because she wouldn't attract so many dudes. Kailyn has a tall, boxy, could-look-athletic body for sure. I think those kinds of bodies can totally be attractive. She just dresses as if she's Jessica Rabbit or a slip of a thing instead, and then plants those curvaceous implants on herself like they'll make her look girly and bodacious! It would be so much better for her to just work out and get muscle tone, to look thick and natural and athletic and dress for that body type. She looks completely ridiculous now. The TM2 girls as a whole are more attractive, I think, than the TM girls. None of them are stunning beauties or anything. Leah, though she's rail thin, cleans up well when she's not on drugs, Chelsea is attractive, and Kailyn and Jenelle both have their moments IMO (or did before surgery). I find Catelynn, Maci, Amber, and Farrah all exceedingly unattractive. I thought Farrah was quite pretty, even beautiful, before her surgeries, but now she often looks like a caricature.

Jet skiing is a common activity. Are they not ever supposed to go to dinner either? Or to the movies? Kail and Javi went to Chili's so now every time he goes to Chili's it's just because he loves her? lololol Also, that girl is a definite physical upgrade. Let's hope she's a personality upgrade too. He should say under her pregnant photo, "Wow, reminds me of the time I got you pregnant and we had a baby!"

Whoa, excuse me, it's "hatters." Javi already has a really cute girlfriend. Hope she's nice.

Whether or not she was edited unfairly, he still came off as a jerk to me at the time, but that's JMO. So did she. Idk, they were 16. Cheating accusations went both ways. He's gotten his act together since then but even his mom seemed to know, and tell him often, that he wasn't acting right. It doesn't mean Kailyn wasn't a jerk too or she was his "victim," it just seemed like (as someone else said) they were always on the verge of a breakup. A dramatic teen relationship between kids who had no business having a child.

See, I'd buy this (except that NPD and BPD are a lot less similar and BPD women actually are quite likely to truly have been severely and repeatedly abused, so I don't think Kail qualifies--she's the abuser, not the victim), but she *never* seemed sweet or cute at all with Jordan, Jo, or Javi to me. Jordan was just sort of dumb, but nice; Javi was the best thus far; and Jo was a dick as a teen just like she was, so they were well matched at the time. She's gotten worse over the years but except for when we very first met Kail as a young teen, she actually pretty much always seems the same, not like some codependent seducer reenacting her various traumas through messed up men. Women with serious disorders would likely be picking men to abuse and abandon them. Instead, she's just grouchy and belligerent. Idk, except for the possibility that her bipolar diagnosis is correct, she doesn't seem all that "disordered" or mentally ill to me. Just a self-centered jerk who really likes to get her way.

Oh, I totally agree. I hope the tell-all is just a smokescreen money-making venture and not an actual tell-all. I still think it's weird that the military is allowing the silliness to continue, but I'd be tempted to do the same thing if I was him because Kailyn is the fucking worst. The best thing would be for him to get therapy and move on, of course--take it as a lesson to be more careful about the partners you pick in the future, and not to let TV or other shallow stuff blind you--but he is definitely still emotionally immature in some ways.

I agree. I don't HATE Javi or anything. I think he could be a kind, devoted dad and husband. I think the tell-all book thing is gross given that it's the mom of his child he's "exposing," and he needs to grow up. Really wish he wasn't doing that because I think he'll regret it sooner rather than later. I don't care about Kail's feelings much but Lincoln is going to see and probably read the book.

Seriously, I hope he's just a fame whore, otherwise he has some even bigger issues to work out.

Oh god, if she's considered "hotter" than Jenelle I don't want to know what nasty things she'll say and do to her.

I know. If watching this show has taught me one thing, it is that I am going to hell. OMG THIS IS AMAZING! For some reason this made me think of couples' therapy with Kail and Javi, when they were both asked to write something nice about the other person. Javi isn't my favorite, but he was being really sweet and genuine. I don't remember what compliment he gave her, but I think it was something about her intelligence or drive with college. SHE COULD NOT EVEN ACCEPT THE FUCKING COMPLIMENT. She yelled that he should just call her a good mom. Frankly, if I was in couples' therapy and the only compliment my husband could think to give me *in a conversation about our personal relationship* was that I was a good parent, I would be hurt and think maybe he didn't think of me in a romantic or coupley way anymore. Javi was probably trying to be respectful and think about her as a person/human being, not just as a mom (which many women get reduced to). It made me wonder how the fuck they ever got together and how the initial "romancing" happened. Did he say romantic things and she'd yell at him or just say "k whatever, when can you get a better job?" And why was he so smitten and into marrying her?! What was the attraction? I get that maybe he was a virgin before her but holy shit, you don't jump from some fun sex to marriage and parenthood unless you are really religious or something is really off.

Jenelle wants to ignore Kaiser entirely and sees him as a nuisance and burden. Since she's narcissistic, she could easily see a girl as 1) a mini version of her who must emulate her, and woe to her daughter if she doesn't, or 2) competition for men. She would 100% allow a daughter (or son, of course) to be sexually abused and do nothing about it if it was her current forever soulmate doing it.

Right, and this was partly because they never even had a real visitation schedule previously to my knowledge. Jenelle never bothered to fight for one.

I don't know that Ensley will be loved. She might get a bit more doting as an infant while Jenelle dresses her up and thinks of her as a tiny extension of herself. She will eventually act like a human baby and toddler, and then like a person with her own thoughts and feelings, and Jenelle won't stand for that. She *might* get more attention from her mom, but Jenelle's brand of "attention" might be even worse than neglect. I could see her being jealous of a daughter for having a father, or being jealous of David's relationship with her and trying to sabotage it. Also trying to compete with the daughter when she's older.

To my understanding they are very different issues. CPS has first off never been involved. But if you sign over custody, it is far far harder to get it back from the existing parent than it would be to get a child taken away from you if you already have them. The courts are often reluctant to take a child away from the family they already have. For Jace, that is Barb. For Kaiser, that is Jenelle and a dash of Nathan. Jace is with Barb not because Jenelle is necessarily seen as wholly unfit or abusive, but because she gave him up, didn't really ever fight for him until recently, and left him with the same parent for many years of his life. Barb is now not Jace's temporary guardian, she is the only mom he's ever had. If Jenelle had fought earlier, even with her many issues, she likely would have been far more successful. My assumption would be that her apparent apathy for so many years and Barb's positive presence in Jace's life play more of a role in the court's decision than Jenelle's drug issues or legal problems. Also, to my knowledge she DID get more custody with him as of the last hearing? Not complete, Barb is still primary, but it was changed? I could be wrong about that.

I'm laughing really hard because I thought the same thing! We really have to watch poor Bentley talk about why he doesn't like to poop at school and watch Leah's little girl not brush her teeth? And then watch her drive TO AND FROM school? Like...ok? Besides the weird invasion of their children's privacy, I was thinking...YOU GET PAID 300K FOR THIS?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! Damn, what if one of them did something somewhat interesting, besides child/spousal/domestic abuse of course? Would they start getting paid millions? I often think about the fact that this show is now totally unrelated to being a teen mom. It's just like...twenty-somethings with children, making bad to mediocre/decent life decisions. Oh, and they're sort of famous or something, so the parties they have are nicer than ours, they drive expensive cars, there are a lot of arrests and vacations, pretty much no one has a regular job, and they move a lot. Like wtf are we watching? What am I doing with my life? I teach college and I'm about to be a mom and I am passionately commenting about Kailyn's ugly photo shoots and Jenelle's moving day antics and have no shame about it at all. lolololol

Depends on what we are calling "welfare" as some people mean any assistance, including SSDI and disability benefits, while others are just referring to food stamps, etc., so it's hard to reach a consensus on this. These were the latest stats I could find for SNAP--40.2% white (right now 63% of the population), 25% black (14% of the population), 10.3% Hispanic (17% of the population). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/28/food-stamp-demographics_n_6771938.html Most of these households include children, disabled people, and elderly folks. People of color are also likelier than whites to be disabled/ill and around 50% of children under 5 are nonwhite, so that shifts the numbers somewhat. Would love to see any more recent stats anyone can find as I found it rather difficult.

Ohhh, I was thinking it was Kylie.

This was after the baby was born for Kail. But omg, I think Farrah did date while pregnant...yes? As a hugely pregnant person I can say that I barely want my own husband to touch me right now, lol. Everything hurts. And for the record, if my husband told me to go to a hotel room and sit around and watch TV while he moved stuff I'd be out that damn door so fast, lol!!! I definitely wouldn't beg him to let me stay in our mold ridden home.