ReadMeLattice

I've wondered how he was going to do pretty much everything while active duty military...I don't know why he's been permitted to continue the circus act. Who is this? Do you know?

I think I will like Javi a lot more this season, but he's still thirsty. He does love his 15 minutes! He also recently had an "author event" with his vanity publisher, 13th&Joan. Guess he's going through with the book and, shamefully, I am definitely going to read it.

Spill that tea, Simon! Seriously, he's such a douche and I don't even care. I will just eat it up.

Totally. I felt a little sick for finding David pretty reasonable in this episode. He seemed bewildered as to why she *needed* to be with him to leave the mold-ridden house when a hotel AND another rental home were both available. I also didn't understand the "oh, go stay in a hotel with Kaiser, that'll be so much fun" thing. First off, poor Kaiser, but also...every second of your life has to be fun? You're just moving. It's not supposed to be a daily amusement park visit. So you'll be bored in a hotel room with a toddler and a TV and McDonald's for a few hours. Cry me a freaking river.

I agree that she shouldn't have *been* dating, but yeah I guess it's a cultural thing because I have a hard time seeing her as a "moocher" or "free loader" at the time. Yes, it was Jo's family, but he impregnated someone he *knew* didn't have a support system, stable living situation, or money. They technically didn't have any responsibility towards her, but HE did, and since they were both minors I'm not sure what else was supposed to happen if he was going to fulfill any of those responsibilities. It's not like she was an adult they randomly allowed to waltz in and take free stuff...she was the less fortunate minor their minor impregnated. The Jo of back then certainly wasn't going to go to a shelter or the streets and help her every day. She wasn't their daughter but *their* minor son majorly fucked up, so I would personally feel some obligation in that situation. I personally would have a hard time being that mad that a 16-year-old who'd just given birth, had a bad breakup, and been rejected by her family for the umpteenth time sought comfort and validation from another guy through dating. Is it mature, no, but understandable? I think so. Anyway, onward from this subject because I feel like I might be ill if I have to say anything else kind about Kail. ;) I will admit that I don't know a lot about child development. He seemed behind to me. And of course children are going to develop at different rates regardless. But the poor kid just gets zero stimulation :( My newborn parenting classes taught a series of simple everyday things we could do to start activating our babies' brains. Can you imagine how little stimulation newborn Kaiser got? Just thrown in a crib and screamed at or around? And that's just when cameras were on.

I fell down an internet rabbit hole recently of birth mom forums and blogs about the evils of adoption, regretting placing your child for adoption, how young moms are exploited, etc. Some of the complaints are legit (i.e., predatory places like Bethany using Christianity as a smokescreen for profit) and some are absolutely insane. (For example, many of the authors refuse to believe any adoption is healthy, call themselves "real parents," refuse to admit that adoptive parents are parents, and believe that all adoptees will return to their "real" parents in the end). Catelynn and Tyler are featured frequently on these sites because their adoption is so clearly messed up. Obviously most of the sites think they should have kept Carly and think Brandon and Teresa are horrible people. However, what's interesting is that opinions on Tyler vary radically. Many hate him. Tyler has gotten into heated arguments with several of these sites in the past, defending adoption passionately. I wonder if he'd sing a different tune now.

Maybe that was part of it. I definitely remember Janet being very clear about her displeasure that it was someone other than "her son" and seeing it as a personal betrayal, though. "How can you date another guy," etc. That was the one time I really didn't agree with them. Frankly I felt it was none of their business, especially since it's not like Kailyn broke Jo's heart. He broke up with her in no uncertain terms. They were immature, obviously mismatched teens who were no longer in a relationship (and were co-parenting poorly and had already had quite a bit of relationship drama). Sort of weird to forbid her from going on dates with anyone else.

I honestly agree. Jo broke up with her and was a huge asshole at the time. The fact that they were letting her stay in their basement when *their son* impregnated her and her alcoholic abusive mom kicked her out was nice, but I fail to see how it meant that they could decide who she dated after, again, their son broke it off with her. He had every right to do so, but if he does, they don't own her dating life/body/personal choices that she isn't bringing into the home. She did not cheat on Jo with Jordan. Their relationship was over. I like Jo now, but he was a very different person at the time. Now Kail is the entitled one and a complete bitch. At the time, she was a hard worker and he was rather spoiled and demanding. Both were immature.

That was truly bizarre. She had to go to a freaking hotel and sit around with her child and relax while her fiance and friends moved all her stuff. As douchey as David is, that plan made the most sense--you're pregnant, get the kid out from underfoot, get the keys to the new place, and wait at a hotel. That sounds perfectly pleasant to me. Order food in and watch TV. Jesus Christ.

Yes, Chelsea played softball. She, like Leah, was a popular party girl in high school.

Seriously, I can't name an actual interest a single one of them has. And yes, exactly, I'm not talking just medical school or human rights law, I'm saying literally anything besides relationships. Like baking. Volunteering. ANYTHING. Now maybe MTV just doesn't show their interests, but their social media posts definitely don't either.

This is very true and a good point. While people mention CPS a lot, including me when I get frustrated at what I see, the purpose of CPS is really to keep families together if they can at all. Being a "bad parent" doesn't, and likely shouldn't, get your kids taken away...people grow and change and have various issues and they still have the right to their kids. I don't personally think Jenelle/Her Baby Daddies have that right, but that would be difficult to prove as long as he's eating, clean, and physically safe. CPS can't be subjective. You can't take a kid away from a parent for, for example, being dumb or racist. That would be a slippery slope to hundreds of thousands of kids being removed.

She learned later though: "Have fun sleepin in the street, with ya Booooyyyyfrrrieenddd" Can't think of Babs without that and "high, high, ya both high" and "well Jenelle, I seen ya with Kieffa"

Personally I think she's boring but not because she has a nice, drama free life or a nice family. I'm genuinely happy that she has those things, especially after the years of Adam crap. I just don't find her very interesting or compelling as a person. She's fine and likable. I just wish we could see *one* person in the series who had a personal passion or some intense drive. Not perfection, just some kind of... gumption? Deep interest in the world? Go get 'em attitude that doesn't result in an arrest? I had hope for Kailyn and Maci in those areas-- Kailyn, for all her flaws, was tough, hard working and determined at the start, and Maci was interested in journalism and a good parent. Now they've *totally* gone down the tubes massively and I can't stand them, more than many of the others in fact. Train wrecks like Briana, Jenelle, and Amber are fun to watch in very very small doses. Then it gets to the point of DV, child abuse, addiction, child after child, and animal abuse and it's just awful.

On a lighter note, my husband came in while I was watching a Chelsea scene and said "whoa, didn't expect that voice!" when he heard Cole. Sometimes it almost sounds like he's imitating Chelsea's voice.

I don't know why they make such a dramatic deal out of B&T's infertility, as if it's 1654, a cholera outbreak is imminent, they were sitting in a hut sobbing before C&T banged, and had they not gifted B&T their firstborn they would have had no chance of the warmth of a child's love? Something like 1 in 8 couples deals with infertility and B&T are a solid, affluent, educated couple. They would have been able to adopt another child or hire a surrogate if not for Carly. We don't even know their situation; maybe IVF would have worked for them but they preferred to spend the resources on an adoption. I'm not trying to make this sound flippant, as I'm sure they believe Carly was meant to be their daughter, but omg, the theatrics of C&T and their fans like B&T are supposed to grovel, beg and wail for the remainder of their lives because two troubled teens fucked and gave them a child they had no means of raising. Adoption is special but it is not uncommon. We get it, Tyler, you can ejaculate healthy sperm. Are you supposed to become a deity because of it?

Imagine being five months pregnant and still having to check who your baby's father is liking on Instagram.

You're right, he still has a chance to get adopted. I'm not holding my breath but that would be the best situation honestly. I do think Jenelle has a special talent of making even the biggest pieces of shit look relatively normal compared to her. Kieffer was trash but I was always on his side in their fights. Nathan is disgusting and sometimes I want him to win in their battles. David is horrible, but I found myself almost rooting for him in this argument. He was at least attempting to make some semblance of a rational decision about getting the keys, keeping Kaiser out of the way, etc. My husband doesn't have any of David's issues but if I had pulled what Jenelle did during that moving day he definitely would have expressed more impatience. Get the damn keys, Jenelle!

Jenelle is regularly emotionally abusive to Barb at this point. Both Nathan and David have gotten in her face and screamed like thugs. I don't blame her at all for not getting involved *except* that she should probably call CPS (for all we know she has previously). Beyond that there's nothing she can do. Jenelle should be ashamed of how she treats that little boy. I almost had tears in my eyes while watching it. She's disgusting. I have to say with two partner-chokings *that we know about,* no custody of his other child, and a history of crime, violence and serious substance abuse, I can't say that Nathan seems much better. Of course he seems better when he's actually with Kaiser, because he's sober or semi-sober for those *few* days, doesn't have to deal with daily frustrations, and wants to prove to Instagram that he's a good dad. Even if he shows him more affection when he sees him, I'm not trusting enough to believe his unpredictable rage would never erupt on his child or he wouldn't drive drunk or high with him in the car. He'd have custody of his other kid at least partially if he was better than David. He'd likely hug him more and engage him more in conversation and be better emotionally for the child when sober, but that won't keep Kaiser alive or safe the day he decides to take roids, get trashed and behind the wheel or get pissed off, which he's proven repeatedly he's going to keep doing. I'm not being flippant or harsh when I say that Kaiser really would be better off in state custody unless Nate's mother is willing to take him. And that's not true of many children.

Yes, I knew about the visitation plan. They must be off drugs and not drinking to visit the child, and apparently rarely are. Very sad.

I will say the photographer is talented, though. That's a nice shot.

Is David's ex ok? I know that Nathan's other baby mama is an addict, or was.

These people's situations are just fucking sad.

I have no doubt that living in that house growing up with constant fighting among the parents, anger (likely) towards the kids, and DV, was terrible. I absolutely believe her that things were awful and fights were a daily occurrence. She's giving her kids all that all over again and either doesn't see it or doesn't care.

Definitely...it's also obviously a matter of maturity. Sometimes it takes a while for people to realize they did have a messed up chaotic life. That's the first step, an important one, and it might take some time to work through it. Even years. You could have a lot of justified anger and depression about it before you're able to move forward and manage it and end the cycle. So during those years, don't have 6+ pregnancies and 3+ engagements? Just a thought. It would be fine for her in her early 20s to still be dealing with the aftermath of a messed up childhood and getting herself together. Except she's already well into giving multiple children messed up childhoods of their own that they will now have to spend lifetimes undoing! How does she not grasp that at all?