KBrownie

But she was A-Okay before with Xander playing daddy to the baby when she knows about all his other crimes. Why are his crimes okay and he's good to play daddy and deny other people their children but Kristen isn't? Sarah is a hypocrite like so many others. She was throwing out all the names of Kristen's victims to Rex, but it went clear over her head that those same people are also victims of Xander. Who she didn't have much of a problem with until it affected her. No one gets to just decide that someone isn't a good parent and steal someone else's kid. Sarah and Xander had no right to do it to Eric. They don't get to make that decision about Kristen. Like it or not, there are lots of shitty people who have children. No one has the right to go around deciding that people aren't good enough and take someone else's child.

I wonder how Max will twist this latest arrest into somehow being all Jessica's fault.

There were parts of this I liked, but overall I feel disappointed. I guessed a while back that it was probably Rosalind that killed Katy because of how she'd been treated by her family, but like it has been mentioned, her being some kind of evil, mastermind I didn't really buy. I was thinking some kind of sudden, mental break where she snaps and kills Katy because she resented that Katy was about to get to leave and get a chance at life while she was stuck. And her whole thing with Rob and Cassie at the end? I didn't really get where all that was coming from. Yeah, Rob rejected her advances, but he was trying to sincerely help her I thought. I still say too much time was spent on the Lexie plot that really didn't end up meaning all that much. Cassie didn't really go into how Lexie really came into existence. I would have liked to have seen more of the fallout with Jonathan Devlin's statement about the rape and what happened to poor Shane. I wanted to see Sandra Sculley get her justice finally. And did Margaret and Jonathan feel any regret for how they treated Rosalind? It wasn't her fault they were irresponsible and married when they didn't want to. So much more could have been done than the pointless roommates plot. I knew it was coming, but I wanted more Rob and Cassie. I hate that's that how they ended and that they teased the reconciliation between Cassie and O'Neil(?). For anyone who has read the books, do they actually never see each other again and Cassie ends up back with the ex? They really were the only ones who were ever going to get each other, but I understood Cassie's point about them needing to deal with what had happened to them both. Too bad they couldn't do it together. That opening scene with them was great. Overall, I loved the chem between the leads and the Irish scenery, but the story could have been better. Also, I wanted to know what happened to Jamie and Peter damn it! None of this "we raised a darkness" business. I did notice they referred to this as a "season" finale. Are there any plans for more episodes?

And this will always make Gabi look eternally stupid. She still hates Abigail even after supposedly getting her revenge, but Stefan? Bygones. Crying over his death like they had the greatest love of a lifetime? Stupid. I think Gabi hates Abigail so much because she's jealous. She wants to be a Horton. She wants that unconditional love and support that Abby has from her parents, sibling, etc. She can't stand that Abigail has all that. It's not Abigail's fault that Gabi doesn't have the family/support system that she wants. Gabi will cry "Unfair!" when she gets her deserved comeuppance from the Hortons over what's she done regarding Eli and Julie and not think she did anything wrong in assaulting Julie and threatening Lani because it was all done in the name of Stefan. Her greatest love. But she can't get over Abigail. Who was being manipulated by Stefan. It makes no sense on her part. And she's supposed to be so cunning and shrewd. Whatevs.

I'm interested in the Lexie/Cassie angle and how Lexie became a real actual person and how Cassie created her to deal with the trauma of losing her parents. I am NOT interested the Lexie/roommates story however. I don't care one bit about any of the four of them. I like the focus more on the Katy/Adam story. Was Katy payback for Jonathan's role in whatever happened in the woods? I mean, other than him helping to facilitate a rape. I also wonder if the show is going to provide some real answers about what happened to Peter/Jamie/Adam and why Adam came back and not the others. There is a lot to cover with only two episodes left. And it's too bad they pulled the trigger so quick on Rob/Cassie. They really are the only ones who can begin to understand the other without judgment or fear. Despite the very first scene of the series with Cassie telling Rob they won't see each other again, I hope they are able to work something out. As for Katy's murderer, I totally think Rosalind might have snapped and killed her. Katy was getting to leave their dysfunctional family and have an actual life. Something Rosalind has been denied her whole life. I've enjoyed the series so far, except for the latest focus on Lexie and the four roommates. I might have to check out the books. I've never heard of them before now.

Yes, but Eric is the child's father. This is what separates him from Xander in this entire discussion. Despite all the protests to the contrary, they are not the same. Eric is Makenzie's father. A father who was denied his child for no legitimate reason. He has rights and most judges aren't going to sever a child from it's parent when the parent has shown no potential harm to the child, no matter what their past may be. And as has been pointed out several times, no one is perfect. NOTHING Eric has ever done disqualifies him from being a parent to his child. And yeah, yeah, yeah, the same could be said about Xander. But it's not his kid, is it? Who is Xander in this whole thing? He isn't married to Sarah. Even if he was, it means nothing when it comes to Mackenzie as long as her father is in the picture. He also participated in the coverup and lie about the child's paternity. A judge might not look too fondly on that. So did Sarah. But she is the child's mother. That carries the same weight as Eric being her father. Xander is nothing that counts in this situation. Not legally anyway. So he should just step back and keep quiet when it comes to Eric. If poor, little Sarah has to take a bit of heat so be it. It's not his place.

Okay, so Eric is just as bad as everyone else. So why is it okay for Xander to play daddy to someone else's kid and somehow Eric shouldn't get that opportunity in favor of Xander? If they're the same, then Eric's actual biological tie to the child wins out and gives him certain rights that Xander, nor Sarah, get to arbitrarily decide to take away from him. And how is Eric trying to control Sarah's every move? He doesn't want the sociopath around his child. The man who has on multiple occasions deliberately decided to harm and kill other people. It ain't about Sarah. And even if it were true Eric was trying to control Sarah, wasn't Xander doing the same when he tried to get rid of her link to Eric so he'd have a better chance with her when he let Kristen and Rolf try to take her baby from her womb? If it's okay for Xander to do that and he's viable as a partner for Sarah and daddy to Mackenzie, then Eric should be cool if neither is any different than the other.

Anything subsequent the baby's birth really would NOT have been at Sarah's discretion alone. As soon as that child was born and no longer a part of Sarah's body, if Sarah wasn't a lying liar who lies and Eric was rightfully and legally established as Makenzie's father, he would have had just as much discretion to what happened with her as Sarah. And speaking of bodily autonomy, it's interesting how there's not much issue with Xander's willingness to violate Sarah's autonomy over her body when he was going to help Kristen and Rolf take her baby from her womb without her consent. Yeah, she considered an abortion, but she didn't agree for Kristen to take her kid from her womb. Hate Eric and/or like Xander all one wants, but this constant elevation of Xander as somehow better than Eric because of personality and the erasure of Xander's wrongdoings is perplexing to me. Nothing Eric has ever done is worse than Xander, but somehow Xander is a better dad for Eric's child just because. Being mopey, judgmental, self-righteous, or whatever else Eric is accused of being isn't a disqualifier from being a father. As soon as Sarah decided to have her child, she needed to accept that she had to deal with Eric. But she's such a simpering coward with no spine, she let Xander make it easy for her. Her and Xander waxing poetic about how he's such a great dad when they deliberately kept Eric from being one is some next level hypocritical and delusional bullshit. Is Sarah even aware of all that Xander's done? If she is, someone should question her parenting skills for allowing someone like that to be a father figure to her child. And yes "But Eric . . . ", but talk to me when Eric has deliberately set out to and actually did harm and torture anyone. The show would do better to acknowledge all this rather than present it as Eric simply being jealous and petulant about Xander around his kid. It's way more complicated than that and they know it.

This is all spot on! I don’t see how somehow any fault can be laid at Eric’s feet with Eric vs. Xander here. Xander should have just kept quiet and stayed out of the way during that entire confrontation. The jig was up so to speak, and here’s Xander still trying cause trouble and somehow act as if he has any say or dog in this fight. Personal preference between the two put aside, Xander is in no way the hero here. He should just shut up. It was particularly galling of him to stand there and lecture Eric about how he was Mickey’s dad and he delivered her, and he’s been there. He was acting like Eric was a deadbeat dad who chose to miss all those moments and is just now showing up. News flash Xander, you sociopath, you and Sarah deliberately denied him all those moments, so you can’t now try and hold that against him stupid. He just needs to keep his mouth shut when it comes to Eric. Coddle Sarah all he wants, but he has NOTHING to say to Eric. It’s not his kid. He has no rights. If his feelings are hurt about Mickey, and I don’t believe they are, he’s worried Sarah will want Eric again, he shouldn’t go around playing Daddy to kids that aren’t his. Just because Sarah let him do it doesn’t make it right or smart. And the “well, everyone’s a criminal” argument doesn’t work for me as there’s NO comparison between Xander and Eric. And even if there was, Xander’s actions here tips the scales in his favor. Never mind the fact that had Kristen not ended up pregnant with her own baby, Prince Xander would have been an active and willing participant in stealing Sarah’s baby straight from her body. And never mind whatever he’s covering up now. But, but, Eric accidentally killed someone. The fact that Xander was willing to so grossly violate Sarah’s bodily autonomy in that way would disqualify him as potential partner for her if I was fan. I wonder if she’ll ever be able to find that out. Or are the viewers just supposed to forget so he can be super daddy. As for Eric being judgmental, that is not a disqualification for being a parent to one’s child. Nor is not being present for birth. Also, the judgmental charge is especially perplexing since HE is the one who was judged ineligible, for absolutely no logical reason, to be a father to his child. I swear, it’s like Eric should just hand his child over to Xander. Just because. Nope. If Eric wants to parent, the only person he needs to consider is Sarah. Sarah, pathetic and simpering as she is, had the best reaction. She knew it was over. Stop lying, let him hold the baby, and move on. We’ll see if she continues to be smart and keep Xander out of her co-parenting with Eric as he has NO place. If she wants his support for her personal benefit, fine. But he has no seat at the co- parenting table. Neither does any significant other of Eric’s. If Sarah doesn’t get that, then she’s just as stupid and selfish as Xander.

And Gabi can join them for her latest round of criminal activities. That were all done in the name of Stefan ironically.

This is my thing as well. Why would Abigail care about her? She got her revenge supposedly. Shouldn't the whole thing be done now. Gabi sure as hell doesn't care about any of the pain she goes around inflicting for stupid reasons. Her blaming Lani for Stefan choosing to jump in front of a bullet is ridiculous, but the Stefan stuff is particularly puzzling. Like you say, he was the mastermind behind all the stuff she's mad at Abigail about. The whole thing should be bygones at this point since Gabi married and considers the person most responsible for all of it some great love of hers. Gabi having an attitude with Abigail, but crying buckets and declaring vengeance over Stefan just makes her look stupid. And I can't wait for Eli to realize that he's been dragged into her stupid and is getting played. I wonder how he's going to feel when Gabi's next misdirected revenge plot is aimed at him because of course Gabi will blame him for hurting her when the Lani stuff comes out.

But that's not what she's doing at the moment though, is it? She's using one man as a replacement for her daughter's actual father. She has no right to do that. Eric isn't objecting to a "step-parent figure," he's objecting to another man actively claiming to be the father of his child. Courts don't look too kindly on deliberate parent alienation. Especially when Sarah has NO excuse other than "I got dumped for someone else." I mean, I don't get how Eric is in the wrong here, like him or not. He is this child's father. He does have rights. He hasn't done anything to show himself to be a harm to his child, so Sarah doesn't get to just deny him his child. Too bad, so sad if that's inconvenient for Sarah and Xander.

Good. I hope he judges the hell out of them and then some. Nicole too. They kept him from his child for absolutely no reason other than their own selfish interests. They deserved to be judged. Eric is right to go to the courts because Sarah obviously isn't to be trusted to do the right thing. If anyone is "Judgey McJudgerson" it's her. And Xander. And Nicole. They are the ones going around making cowardly judgments and decisions about other people's lives that are only meant to serve themselves. And Xander can kick rocks. This isn't his kid. He gets no say or consideration. Eric never did anything to him other than be the one Sarah wanted instead of him to warrant him playing daddy to Eric's child. F- him. He was willing to stand back and do absolutely nothing and let Kristen snatch that same baby from Sarah's womb. What a prince. True love. I wonder if Sarah will still think he's daddy material if she ever finds out about all that. If he wants to be daddy to Sarah's baby, he can make his own. Mickey isn't going to suffer any from having him cut out of her life. She isn't going to remember him and she will have Eric. Her actual father.

I saw nothing wrong with Jennifer's reactions to Justin and Kayla. For her, it's literally like it was yesterday that Justin and Adrienne were happy, in love, and renewing their vows along with her and Jack. For Jennifer, it's not been months since Adrienne died and Justin and Kayla started connecting. It must understandably be a shock and difficult for her to process. Jennifer must also be experiencing her own trauma as a result of someone attempting to murder her, so hearing what happened to Adrienne is forcing her to deal with her own near-death experience and losing a year of her life. Her rational mind isn't what's driving her at the moment. It's still the trauma of her own experience coupled with the shock and devastation at losing someone she cared about. All understandable in my opinion. Not something that can simply be reduced to "ugh! she's so judgmental!" She'll likely come around once the shock of it wears off and she's had the same time to process everything that everyone else has had.

Agree. I'm not sure why I should be rooting for Xander and Sarah as a couple in all this. They are knowingly keeping Eric from his child for no good reason at all. Like him or not, Eric hasn't done anything to be denied the right to parent his child. It's really of ugly of Sarah to be doing this. I was pretty neutral about the character before, but this has pushed me to dislike her immensely. But Eric will somehow be in the wrong when he finds out and wants Xander and Sarah no where around him and his child. Xander was willing to let Kristen and Rolfe steal that child from Sarah, but I'm supposed to find them a cute couple. Nope. Uh uh. The fact that he was perfectly happy to stand by and let Rolfe and Kristen do that to her is extremely gross and troubling. Nicole is just as wrong, but you can at least clearly see her reasoning. She still will deserve everything she gets when it comes out though.

Well, there was no need for Joanie and Luisa to "develop" a relationship as they already had one. Alison didn't tell Cole that he was Joanie's father until after his marriage to Luisa when Joanie was between 2-3 years old. This means that from that point until Cole took her to Vermont or wherever, Luisa was as much as a caregiver to Joanie as her parents. This was pretty clearly established on screen. Certainly Cole had no problem leaving Joanie in Luisa's care as he did it pretty often. In their last scenes at the end of Season 4, Cole seemed to acknowledge and accept Luisa's place in Joanie's life when he said that Joanie couldn't lose Luisa too when she'd already lost Alison. There's no reason why she still couldn't have been an important part of Joanie's life even if Cole had her in Vermont. I'm sure he allowed her to spend time with people and family other than himself. Grown-up Joanie even mentions in passing to Luisa that Cole didn't move "with us" when they moved to wherever they lived. Joanie's daughters were clearly familiar and had a relationship with Luisa running to her and calling her "Grandma" and even Paul referred to her as Joanie's "mom." Luisa was obviously a significant part of adult Joanie's life, so she must have been there in some capacity when she was growing up. I don't see adult Joanie becoming close with her after not seeing her since she was seven. Not a big deal. It doesn't erase Alison as her mother in any way as Joanie was still very affected by the death of her mother as an adult. And Cole had his wedding pictures still up on the wall in his bedroom in the future*, the same bedroom that he shared with Luisa when they were together, so he must not have had any problems with her. And why would he? She never did anything to him except want him and him only and love and help take care of his child while he cheated and lied to her face. *No one said anything at the time, so I thought it was just me, but if you go back to episode 4 at the end when Joanie starts cleaning out Cole's closet you can see the pictures from Cole and Luisa's wedding reflected in the mirror on the wall when Joanie bends down in front of the mirror to pick something up.

Ditto. I mean, he admitted from jump that he wanted to get Chloe pregnant on purpose. Who would want that kind of person around their child? And I believe Max was given a fair chance to not be a jerk and he blew it. He was allowed to be around their house and hang out. They just wanted him to go home sometimes. Not unreasonable at all. Max just thought since he impregnated Chloe, he was entitled to become a full member of that family and has been pissed at Jessica ever since she refused to play along. I don't really blame Jessica. She has another child to think about. If Chloe wants to endanger herself and her child, that's her prerogative. Jessica doesn't have to like Max if she doesn't want to. Max isn't her responsibility. Chloe isn't anymore either, she just loves her daughter. Keep it civil and keep it moving. She does need to let Chloe sink or swim on her own. Let the know-it-all see for herself that she doesn't have all the answers and things are not just going to work out because she wants them to. I would have loved to see her and Max try to take care of themselves and Ava without any help. They wouldn't last a month. Max needs to get over it. People aren't always going to like you. Such is life. Move on. Yeah, it sucks that it's your girlfriend's mother, but it is what it is. He wouldn't have to deal with Jessica at all if he would grow up and take care of family he created. At the end of the day, Jessica's the one doing all that for him and Chloe. And they don't ever show the least bit of awareness or appreciation. I would be pissed too. But unlike Jessica, I would have washed my hands of it long time ago. Let them do them if they know so much.

The were no dates that were identical. There were no dates of death given on either headstone. The year they died was the same: 2051. Which means that they could have died any time in the 365 days of the year 2051. One's death didn't have to have anything to do with the other. Or maybe it did. Maybe it was the same day, maybe it wasn't. Helen could have died on January 1, 2051 and Margaret on December 31. Or anywhere in between. But there was nothing given to prove that they died on the same day, only in the same year.

I agree. It's so silly. And speaking of forgetting, did Gabi forget that Stefan died because he was interfering with a cop? This whole thing makes Gabi look so stupid in addition to spiteful and cruel. I don't care if she is supposedly grieving, messing around with someone's actual life and heart and smirking about is some next level psychopath stuff. She should have just said no to donating Stefan's heart and been done. Do the mature thing for once. But she gets off on mean, spiteful, and vengeance. She needs it to thrive. Maybe she should talk to someone about how she just bounces from one revenge target to the next. All of the rest of this kills any understanding I had for her situation. Especially since it makes no sense to be directing all this animosity towards Lani, even given their history. She's acting like Lani deliberately and intentionally sought out and murdered Stefan in cold blood when that's not what happened at all. Gabi is the one totally in the wrong here as her actions are intentional. And if she still is harboring ill will from her history with Lani, her actions are still wildly out of proportion to what went down. And after all this, people will still whine about the Hortons not liking her. Why the hell should they at this point? She's gone out of her way several times now to hurt people in that family. Yeah, they may have looked down on her and been judgmental before, but they will be absolutely right to shun her after this latest stunt. Yeah, yeah, she donated Stefan's heart to Julie, but now she's using that to torment people. I don't even get what she's so vengeful about here. No one murdered Stefan. No one was out to get Stefan. He made a choice and paid the price for it. Lani was well within her rights to shoot at Vivian after the latter pulled a gun on her and Lani knew she'd already shot and tried to kill Kate. If Stefan thought it was worth it to protect his crazy mother, then that's on him. He, and Gabi, were protecting a woman who'd just shot and buried someone alive and refusing to turn her over to Rafe complete with wacky hijinks at the mansion. They helped set in motion the events leading up to Stefan's death. Sure, they didn't know what would happen, but Lani didn't know either that Vivian was going to pull a gun on her. Lani was doing her job and also simply protecting herself from a woman who had already shot someone. I'm not seeing how she's in the wrong here and needs to be punished. And I find the Lani character just as boring as everyone else on most days.

Lol. Also, as far as she knows, Noah is still the guy that killed her at-the-time husband's loved little brother. As far as she knows Cole still despises him. Of course she has an attitude with him. She doesn't know Noah didn't kill Scott. And I don't think that Noah was treating the hired help's daughter like a BFF at any time in the past, so I don't get why some people had a problem with Luisa's attitude toward him.

What does one have to do with the other? Did Joshua Jackson state somewhere that his departure was related to whatever went down with Ruth Wilson? That he declined to participate in Season 5 as a form of protest? I like to think that he turned down another season because the writers never allowed his character to truly move on from the original affair and do anything other than chase after Alison, who, despite all Cole's longing, and chasing, and declarations of love, never showed anywhere near the same level of interest in him or anything he was interested in or doing. Also, I will forever be annoyed that we never got to see his reaction to finding out that Alison denied him his daughter for two years just because or that he never found out she participated in the cover-up of his brother's death. I may be in the minority, but I liked Luisa's small appearance. I like her character as well. She never got the development she should have. If minor, brand-new characters like Sierra, etc. can get a POV, it will always be ridiculous that Luisa never got one.

I noticed that Tyra and her sister didn't include themselves when they were discussing how many ways that they were going to split the rent. What exactly are they responsible for? Or is their only job to sit around and pop out more babies for someone else to provide for. Do they provide any financial assistance to the kids they knowingly brought into this world? And that one kid, I guess it was the sister's boyfriend . . . , didn't look like he knew where his $215 was coming from. These girls are just so painfully stupid. They talk all this tough talk about how the guy has to step up and provide while they just sit on their asses and tell them what to do. Stay with grandma Alex. You can still provide for your child without playing house with Tyra if that's not what you want to do. Tyra's mom needs to be able to take care of herself. If what she can afford isn't enough for her entitled daughters who want to play house, then they need to find a place of their own. The mom is stupid to be playing along like these teen boys can really go in equal with her 38 year old self on rent. She needs to tell her daughters to get a job and not expect to be able to do things like cheer when we can't pay rent without depending on teenage boys. I don't think Chloe or Max mentioned their daughter once in their concerns about Max going to rehab. It was all. about. prom. Delusional idiots. Prom is the least of their concerns when it comes to their shared ignorance, entitlement, and lack of respect for anyone who knows better than them.

According to whom? Tyra and no one else. I.e. Tyra's perspective has only been the one being considered when it comes to these other girls. Never mind the fact that she really shouldn't be looking to them for any real, heavy support during her pregnancy. She had her family and Alex. Those girls are not responsible or obligated to Tyra for anything. Did she reach out to them and they rebuffed her? We just don't know, but these poor teen girls are being painted with such a wide, negative brush for daring to live their own lives.

You're only looking at this from Tyra's biased perspective. And Tyra has shown herself to have a little trouble with the truth. You, and no one else, knows anything about why any of those girls didn't show up. Sure, it could be they don't want to be associated with Tyra, or it could be as simple as they had something else planned. It isn't the end of the world. Maybe Tyra is the kind of friend that wants you to show up for her, but doesn't show up for anyone else and that's why they didn't come. There's just not enough to determine that they aren't "ride or die" because of missing a baby shower. Tyra should just be thankful for who did come and what she got and move on. If she doesn't want to be friends anymore with whoever didn't come, then that's fine.

I personally am not saying she shouldn't have a baby shower, but it's not the responsibility of any other teenage girls to provide her with financial, material, or emotional support when they are all still dealing with their own trials and tribulations regarding adolescence. If they wanted to attend and bring a gift, fine. But, if they didn't for whatever reason, it's no mark against the type of people they are just because they didn't go to a baby shower.