KBrownie

Under normal circumstances, I would actually agree with this, but with this show, it's probably all we're going to get as far as consequences for the myriad of reprehensible deeds Gwen has committed, which include what I believe is attempted murder on Abigail's life, so I was cheering Abigail on. If I didn't think that Gwen is about to get a huge whitewash of everything she's done and that Abigail won't have any other opportunity to get even a small amount of justice for what Gwen did to her, I would also have wanted her to take the non-physical, higher path. But this show seems as if they want Gwen to be "wacky" and "quirky" and have laid it on super thick with her sob story, Abigail probably be forced to swallow the attempt on her life and sanity because "poor Gwen."

I just think it's lazy writing, not "typical." Can't think of anything else? Throw out the retcon kid. And "typical" seems like it can be, not that it absolutely is, used as a cop-out for not caring for this or anything else. Well, you may not like x, y, z, but oh well. It's typical of a soap. Also, I simply was pointing out that Abigail has never done anything to Gwen. Where did I say that you said Gwen had done something to Abigail? I'm not trying to and don't care to compare what viewers may/may not have felt about Hope's or anyone else's having to deal with a pop-up kid anyway. I was giving my own opinion only on this situation and pointing out similarities I saw with other pop-ups. I don't care how standard, or "typical" it may be, it's not enjoyable to me. Trying to explain/educate/philosophize/lecture on soaps and how they supposedly operate or how this is "typical" doesn't make it make any better sense or more entertaining TV. These are things I personally want when I watch something. Others may differ and that's fine. It's more of an excuse at this point to cover for the unoriginal redundancy on the part of the writers. Especially these writers as they have concurrent rando stories going at the same time. It's not some rite of passage that all couples HAVE to go through. There is no "Soaps 101" textbook that demands this particular trope. Although it sure seems like it when there's no defense or logic for something other than "it's a soap!" The writers should try to do better. It doesn't seem like the "typical" is doing too much for the genre as a whole.

She ain't did shit to Gwen though. Like her or not, most logical people can see Gwen has no basis for anything she's done to Abigail. She should not get to take out her "woe is me" abandonment issues on someone who had nothing to do with it. Gwen should buy a bridge and get over it. Abby deserves all her scorn for simply being born? But she somehow has no beef with JJ? But does have one with Jennifer? One of the many things that doesn't make sense. And what does she think is going to happen now? Jack might feel sorry for how she was raised, but he isn't going to care all that much about her otherwise, especially when he finds out about her drugging Abby. She's never going to rate as much to him as Jennifer, Abby, and JJ. She might have had a chance of at least being tolerated if she'd handled this the grown-up way and came to town and just told Jack who she was, but she's ruined that for herself. Chelsea and Tripp at least had youth on their side for the things they did. And for Chelsea, what she did was an accident. I don't see anyone welcoming their arms out to bring Gwen into the family. Especially if she continues to be a smug, unrepentant bitch about what she's done. I just can't believe that Jack, Laura, Jennifer, and maybe more characters' histories are all being messed up for this rando. There's nothing endearing or rootable about her. She's crossed too many lines to try and go back and I doubt they will have her, with all her superior smugness, show an ounce of remorse. Hopefully she's the one who ends up dead in this murder mystery. That's the only salvageable thing about all this now. Then viewers can forget about all the ways her existence doesn't make sense and how many character histories were sacrificed for it. There are multiple, actual spoilers that lend credence to her being the murder victim. Although I would hate that any character would have to suffer for taking her useless ass out. There's a spoiler about Chad covering for Abby, one where Chad threatens Gwen, and one about Julie and Gwen having a confrontation. The multiple run-ins with Anna must have some purpose. She has no friends or allies in Salem. I don't see how she could ever possibly have any after all she's done, so kill her off and be done.

Yeah, but that's nothing that confirms that the secret or truth is that Laura supposedly was the one who was paying off Gwen's mother or that Gwen is her secret love child with Jack. And no spoiler has revealed that the DNA says that Gwen is Jack's kid either. It may be, but it might also be revealed that she's not related to Jack.

Is this an actual reputable spoiler from somewhere or is this rehashed speculation masquerading as spoiler? Nothing official or reputable has said or confirmed anything about WHY Laura is coming back, just that she is. Anything else is just speculation, and no problem with that, but if it's a confirmed spoiler, I would be interested in knowing the original source. I just wonder why Laura would pay off a woman who had a child in the mid-80s from the son-in-law she didn't even meet or know about until the early to mid-90s. Could Laura tell the future and know that Jack would marry and have kids with her daughter and that she paid off Gwen's mother for what? She knew that future Jennifer, who was a teenager when this supposedly happened, wouldn't want to marry Jack if he had a kid already? And Laura was lying in the 90s when she claimed she didn't know who Jack was and that he had any connection to Jennifer when they first encountered each other? That's a LOT of retconning of Jack, Jennifer, AND Laura's histories for this all to work. Or maybe crazy Gwen is just a crazy, delusional liar who has made this all up and Laura, because she works in the mental health field, knows Gwen and her history and is trying to help her daughter and her family. Sounds a lot more plausible than a lot of the other speculation. Laura encountering the random Gwen is lot more likely than a lot of these other possibilities. I know, "it's a soap," but Gwen doesn't HAVE to be related to Jack. Or anyone. Her being a crazy loon with no rhyme or reason to her melodrama is also very "it's a soap."

That site those spoilers come from doesn’t have any real inside information or spoilers. All they do is dress up and rehash speculation from Twitter and any released spoilers from magazines, cable guides, and or the show/network. As soon as the show aired yesterday and it was clear that Laura couldn’t be Gwen’s mother based on the time frame, the speculation then shifted to she’s the one who paid off the mother. Anything and everything to still make Gwen as Jack’s make sense. That site and others like it by six pm had released new “spoilers” to reflect the new speculation.

That doesn't negate my overall point which is that Jack hasn't favored one of his children over the other. I also never said they didn't have issues. Of course they did, but Jack favoring Abigail over JJ wasn't one of them. JJ not reacting well to his father's death proves my point actually. He wouldn't have had such a negative reaction if Jack wasn't someone who he loved and adored and someone who loved and adored him back. Same when JJ found out about the rape. Or when Jack showed up back from the dead at New Years 2019. Casey Moss and Matt Ashford work very well as father and son and I would love to have seen/see more of them working together. I'm glad there was never a JJ resents Abby or vice versa storyline. Or a JJ follows in his father's footsteps storyline. Both are well-worn tropes. Jack knows full well who he used to be and how terrible his mistakes were. He never needed to be taught a lesson by JJ doing the same thing. I'm glad they didn't re-tread that same old trope with the two of them. I love the relationship between Jack and JJ, especially how open and affectionate Jack is with him, and Abby as well. Considering just how HARD it used to be for him to express his feelings, especially with Jennifer at the beginning, it's great to see him always, for the most part, so open and caring with his kids. This is why I personally didn't have a problem with calling out Abby after the anniversary party. She was wrong in how she handled it and he let her know. It wasn't about absolving himself of what he did, but he was disappointed in her and he let her know.

Yep. Laura's role in this is the missing piece of the puzzle. She certainly isn't going to sit back and let Gwen hurt her daughter and granddaughter if she can help it. Whatever she knows probably blows things up for Gwen. I hope she shows up and escorts Gwen back to the mental institution. She's obviously unstable and not above trying to kill someone.

I also don't want Jack saddled with some newbie retcon that they obviously didn't know what to with so they stuck her with Deveraux unit. I don't believe she'll end up being Jack's in the end. I'm not trusting anything Gwen says as being remotely true. I've seen people saying that just because she cried at the end that means she MUST be telling the truth. Bullshit. She's crazy. And after all the known lies she's already told, her word by itself means nothing. I agree with you in not caring that this would have happened pre-Jennifer. I also am not interested in him being stuck in the middle. It would totally go against his established characterization. Jack, despite his flaws, has always been totally devoted to and loyal to Jennifer and his kids. He would NEVER be torn between them and some chick who deliberately set out to hurt them all. Daughter or not. This isn't some teen/early 20-something who still needs guidance/can learn, this is a chick pushing 40 who had no real reason to have done what she did. Lots of people grow up with absent parents and suffer because of it, but that's life. It isn't always fair, but you deal with the hand you've been dealt and move the fuck on. I know the Johnsons accepted Tripp and I don't like that either, but at least he had being a stupid kid (more or less) in his favor. And the absence of JJ in this story already makes it a failure. Jack, never favored Abigail over JJ. There's just been more on-screen interaction between Jack and Abby. NOT because Jack favored Abby over JJ, it just worked out that way. In real time, it was 12 years between Abby's onscreen birth in 1992 and JJ's birth in 2004, but based on the actors and SORAS, its probably like 3-4 years difference. Also, Matt Ashford has had a lot more time on-screen w/ adult Abby than adult JJ b/c JJ wasn't on much as a child b/c they moved to London and they kept him off screen when Jack and Jenn came back in 2011-12. Abby stayed in Salem when Jack, Jen, and JJ went to London, so JJ was being raised and loved by his parents with no issues off screen. Casey Moss showed up in like 2013(?) and Matt came back in 2019. But despite that, Jack, even with amnesia, always showed an extreme affection for his son. I was glad that Abby was off-screen for much of that time, so that JJ could get some focus with his parents, especially Jack. All that being said, this narrative that stupid Gwen is spinning, that just shows how delusional she is, about Jack only caring about Jen and Abby, isn't true.

I think that in the rush in all this speculation to "call it" and make Laura Gwen's mother by Jack both the fact that Gwen was introduced as mental hospital patient and that Laura is psychologist/psychiatrist (I'm not sure which) gets lost. Laura is probably back b/c she knows Gwen's mental history and knows she's fucking w/ her family, so she comes to warn Jennifer et. al or something to that effect. I think it sucks that Missy Reeves isn't going to be playing these scenes w/ JLB as Laura.

If I’m remembering correctly, she left out her drugging of Abigail when she was listing all of Jack’s past transgressions. She needs to be hauled off to jail for that alone if she isn’t shipped off to the mental institution first. It’ll be interesting to see what Jack’s reaction will be when he finds out about that. If, and it’s a BIG if, he’s allowed to act in character, he shouldn’t give a fuck about Gwen based just on that act by itself. She’s completely delusional. What does she think is going to happen now?! Jack isn’t going to sit back and let her continue to come after Abby and Jen(through him) just because she claims to be his daughter. And the ignoring of JJ is weird. She arranged for his return for the party, but since then nothing. I don’t get the endgame here. I don’t think she’s his daughter, but even if she was, I don’t see the Deveraux family taking her in like the Johnsons and Tripp.

Yep. It’s yet more evidence of how there’s no limit to the twisting into unrecognizable knots of characters and history this show is willing to go to somehow make this all make sense. One of Jack’s consistent character traits for most of his 30 year history is that he is a writer committed to the facts. That was a big part of his and Jennifer’s initial bonding. Hopefully, that will kick in and they won’t just sit around and twiddle their thumbs as Gwen spews more melodramatic cliches about how she didn’t have a daddy. I swear, she checked off every box on the “my daddy didn’t love me and I had such a hard life” trope in one setting. I don’t think any of this will have anything to do with Harper or eventually Jack. The writers seem to be simply too lazy to figure out what the actual history is in order to actually use it. It’s so telling that Gwen’s once upon a time starts before Jack was in Salem so they can just ignore all those facts of his time in Salem. I still say at the end of the day, Gwen will have put together this entire story based off her precious clippings. She doesn’t know anything but what’s she’s read and she’s created this fiction from it. Personally, I miss Missy Reeves. If you’re going to try to go back and reference the history of these characters, I’d prefer to have the actress who was there for most of it. CM is fine, but I feel like there would be more natural and unspoken interactions between Jack and Jennifer due to the level of comfort and greater chem between MA & MR.

L. O. L. There is like, no way that Jack is actually crazy Gwen's father. She's either still lying as part of her big plan, someone has told her a bunch of lies, or she's just simply off her rocker and has made up this entire story from all her little newspaper clippings. NOTHING she spewed today confirms or proves anything. And how convenient for her that she doesn't "trust" DNA tests in Salem, but they should just trust what she's saying. The timeline doesn't even make sense, not even by soap standards. This all would have had to take place and she made it seem like it all happened before Jack even knew Jennifer and had a relationship/family with her. This would have been BEFORE all the more recent times that he was MIA because he was dead, kidnapped, had amnesia, etc. I could maybe buy he doesn't remember every person he ever slept with, but the part about sending money for years? Jack flat out denied that and it seems he would have come clean if it were true. I don't feel sorry for her in the least. Why should I? She's a nobody who has to be pushing 40 who's done nothing but purposefully hurt others. And she's waited all this time for her big revenge? Grow up. Get a hobby and move on. Her tears are the Friday cliffhanger? Please.

I don't really feel anything for the actress or the character other than annoyance. Major annoyance at how many characters' histories are going to be twisted and tied into knots beyond recognition in order to make her work. Major annoyance at how she's been eating up all this screen time and will continue to do so to where I'm going to be expected to give a crap about HER, a newbie nobody's pain and angst, while the veterans and legacy characters will continue to show up once/twice a week as support and will eventually have to forgive and forget to make her character work. In no way will this end up being about Jack. He will just be there to apologize and beg Gwen for forgiveness for whatever made up, BS excuse they come up with for why he wasn't around. Never mind, we never really got to see JJ or Abigail, have any POV about missing out on their father all the times he was dead. This show really didn't need another retcon kid. And I guess they are going to try revise history some more and play it that Jack doesn't care about JJ as much as Abigail, despite that not having any truth to it, to justify Gwen. And I really hope Jack, Jennifer, Abigail, etc. are smart enough (doubtful, considering how they've all been made to look stupid for Gwen to be successful up to this point) to not just take her word as any kind of objective truth. They have absolutely NO reason to believe anything she says. They KNOW she's a liar. All she's got is some newspaper clippings about all of them and could be pulling all this out of thin air. Nothing she SAYS is worth anything. The only proof they should accept is a blood test w/ multiple members of that family. No time should be wasted with anything coming out of her mouth. I'm (and they all should as well) going to need something more as proof.

I guess I don't see where this is happening. At all. I feel like there may be some counting of chickens before they hatch thinking that this Gwen mess is going to turn into something BIG for Jack because, although it still hasn't been confirmed anywhere, the assumption is that Gwen is Jack's long-lost child and he will get story out of that. Otherwise, where is this supposed the new focus on Jack? The pointless cheating was still all about his feelings for Jennifer. I was personally hoping for more insight into his mental state all that time while Jennifer was in the coma, but nothing. Just the repeated declarations of "It didn't mean anything!" and that Jennifer should just get over it. The anger with Abigail was interesting, but other than that, not so much? One confrontation with Gwen that only merits one day out of the week? Big whoop. The sudden BFF-ness w/ Kate where he sits and lets her bash his wife? It seems like Jack was being used to give Kate something to do before she moved on to Jake. Jennifer seems to be also used for that purpose lately. He still isn't allowed any interactions outside of the Jen/Kate/Gwen/Abby bubble other than the occasional conversation with Justin. Nothing with his brother after the cheating came out. They could have used his history somehow in the Tripp/Allie story. Jack as Tripp's uncle and Jennifer as Allie's aunt could have been used in some way. He had more to do and interacted with more people during the Jack as mayor/amnesia storyline than currently. He was all over the place in that story and his struggle to figure out how to exist without a memory was better than his current story. Isn't this a bit contradictory? She was involved in his initial exit, but not saying she decides if she comes or goes? And I'm not speculating over rumors about MA/MR not liking each other or either's personal views, b/c as long as it doesn't affect what's on screen, then I don't particularly care. They must be okay with each other to still work so well together after 30 years. I trust that MA knows MR better than the internet and must be cool with her or he wouldn't still do the fan events, etc. that they were doing together pre-Covid. And really, BOTH Jack and Jennifer haven't had anything to do since the amnesia/Eve/time jump was over in 2019. They spent most of 2020 without a real story and were supporting Abigail and Steve/Kayla. I'm still waiting for how this Gwen stuff has anything to do with either of them other than their roles as Abby's parents. So, yeah. I guess I'm still waiting for all this focus on Jack.

I know this idea gets repeated often, but is it really true? Or fair? Isn't when Jack and Jennifer left for London in 2006 the only time that MA and MR either left or came back at the same time? I'm too lazy to look the actual dates, but all the other times MA left/came back it wasn't like MR left and then Jack was cut. Or that MR came back and then Jack was needed so they immediately brought MA back. And MA was doing other things when he wasn't on Days, so it was their loss. MA left in '93 and MR didn't. They had the recast Jack with MR there. MR left and MA still didn't come back and both characters were gone for awhile. Then MR came back in '99-'00 (?) and MA wasn't back until like a year later ('01?). MR was there until they both left in 2006, but MA was caught up in that whole thing where they killed everyone off and brought them back in '04-'05. And I'm not sure how their later returns worked during the 2010's except for MA's latest return where MR hadn't left for awhile. Now I'm not saying that Matt Ashford and the character of Jack haven't been undervalued or treated like they should, b/c they haven't, but I don't really think it's fair to link it to or blame MR. She's not here now and his story has been completely nonsensical, messed up Jack's characterization and overall sucked. Yeah, MA is working, but it's not like it's anything spectacular. People act like he sat around doing nothing while MR was there and now that she's gone he can spread his wings and soar or something. He most recently had the whole amnesia/Eve mess in 2019 that certainly didn't have much to do with Jennifer/MR and none of that, except for Jack getting his memory back, was all that great for the character of Jack.

Yep. There have already been SO many retcon kids. No more are needed. Your list just emphasizes this point. And in the case of Tripp, why is he needed when neither of Steve/Kayla's other children merit any focus. And don't even get me started on the retcons getting retcon siblings (Charlie and Jake). It's tiresome. I think people forget that Gwen's first appearance was in a mental hospital. She's crazy. She could be after the Deveraux family just because. I agree it would be more interesting and original to tie that to Abby's history with mental illness. THAT is the angle I hope they take with Laura. Maybe Laura was Gwen's doctor and learning that Gwen is messing with her daughter/grandaughter, she comes to town to give them a heads up.

It's ALL speculation. The normal places have tried to make it seem like a spoiler, but nothing has confirmed it. The Laura stuff appeared almost as soon as JLB said she was returning for a batch of episodes, six I believe. Her post didn't say who she worked with or what characters she would interact with. Some have absolutely been convinced that Gwen is Jack's child with Kate, then the Jennifer clone, some random, unamed woman, and now Laura. As if Jack's characterization hasn't already been messed up enough with the random, now seemingly pointless cheating, he's also got a random retcon kid too. I, for one, would prefer it not happen. And so far, there's been nothing to confirm that Gwen is related to anyone. I personally think she's working for someone else who has some vendetta against Jack/Jennifer and she's personally jealous of Abigail, so she's focused on her. Her folder also had articles on Chad, so who knows what her real agenda is . . .

I prefer the speculation that since Gwen was first shown in the mental institution with Claire, that Laura once treated her. Possibly at the same time she was treating Abigail and she has some knowledge about Gwen or insight into her motivations and that's why she comes to town. If would be even better if maybe Laura's return doesn't have anything to do with Gwen. That would be great. That a veteran character with such a rich history and her own child and grandchild, and great-grandchildren in Salem isn't used for the useless, pointless, and tired Gwen. I don't know, I'm not on board with some of these incessant assertions that Gwen HAS to be Jack's. First she was Jack's kid from when he was off-screen. Then she was his from Kate when she was sniffing around Jack in '93. Then it was the Jennifer clone from '04. Now, Laura's returning so it must be her! Yeah, it's possible, but I'm not thinking that Jack is going to be given a random kid coming on the heels of the random cheating storyline that ended up being totally pointless. TPTB have already messed up Jack's characterization with the cheating, now they want to throw in a random child too? Whatever . . .

No problem. I'm normally just a lurker around here, but I just happened to watch this whole thing play out "live" yesterday due to having more time to spend on Twitter as a result of being on vacation, so I wanted to share what I knew. I was following the Days tag live as the show was airing yesterday and almost immediately after the show ended, someone pointed out that the credits had listed Cady's husband as a Jack body-double. Most people correctly chalked it up to being a result of COVID restrictions/social distancing and a few people started in on the whole "omg, wouldn't it be just GREAT if MA left too so Cady could act w/ her husband!," but that was the exception. A few hours later, all these other blogs/websites that try to pass themselves off as reputable sources had their posts/articles hinting at Jon Lindstrom replacing Matt Ashford as if it was a big scoop, but never once saying that Twitter was their source and that it wasn't nearly what they were suggesting. A total mountain out of a molehill.

What I meant is that no credible source is reporting that Jon Lindstrom is taking over for Matt Ashford for Jack in the same way that Cady took over for Missy Reeves as Jennifer. That is what that first article and others are implying when it's not remotely the same thing. Body doubles aren't usually casting news, but this is a COVID-unique situation. Jon isn't playing the role of Jack in replacement of Matt Ashford. He's a body stand-in.

That site is just piggybacking off of the speculation that resulted from a few people who noticed that Cady's husband was listed in the credits yesterday as a Jack body-double. That's it. He was listed as a body-double. It's nothing more than that at the moment. It's not nearly anything as big or the same as when Cady took over for Missy Reeves, but this site tries to imply that it is. No credible source has said anything about Matt Ashford leaving or anything like that. They are taking twitter posts and speculation and dressing it up as if they have some insider info, but don't reveal anything more than the original speculation about why her husband was credited as a body double. This article conveniently didn't appear until AFTER the talk yesterday. Personally, I hate these blogs/sites that try to present themselves as having exclusive, insider information when all they're doing is dressing up and rehashing spoilers that have already been widely released. I guess it's the same as anyone else talking about spoilers, but most others aren't trying to sell themselves as actual publications with actual real spoilers or insider knowledge.

I too would also love to know what Johnny's beef is with Michelle Kwan . . . I don't recall them ever crossing paths and there's no comparison between his skating career and hers, so what's his problem?

SO much this. Why would they choose to knowingly keep putting the entire family through this? I don't care what some of those practiced and rehearsed lines are coming from some of the kids, it ain't always sunshine and rainbows with so many children in one family. In addition to the potential loss of another baby and any other severe complications, you would think the stress and emotional toll on the other kids would be enough for them to say no more. I mean, she was away from the family on bed rest for what, like a month? That's a lot of time. Some of those kids who were old enough to understand looked downright terrified about what might happen to their mother and the babies. Yeah, kids are resilient and things sometimes happen that you can't help, but I couldn't imagine having to go through that every two years or so. Wondering if my mother and baby siblings are going to come home and what happens if they don't. I wonder if they will decide that fourteen children is enough for them or if they'll keep trying in order to ensure a Season 2 on TLC. They could always follow the Busby template and Season 2 could be them getting that first TLC paycheck and deciding that they just have to move because they've outgrown their current house. Season 2 could also introduce that quirky family member that has their favorite kid and of course, the mandatory TLC funded vacation.

Jason better pray that his child with Angelica is a boy. You know Sunhe and Angelica are praying for a girl. A girl will just be the next generation of the unhealthy dynamics between Angelica and Sunhe. That's probably why Sunhe took the news so well. She's hoping for another member of their club. I'm selfishly hoping for a boy to see what the reaction will be.