KBrownie

Agree. She made Gwen, who imagines herself as the ultimate victim, look like the whining, entitled, pathetic trash she is.

The retcon of making her Jack's was a stupid and pointless move to begin with. It smacked of desperation to make the character relevant and has been a total failure. There's no way for that to ever work with all she's done to that family. Jack has been made to look like a total fool by just whitewashing her crimes and lies. And now with Jennifer coming back, if they try to make her in any way pro-Gwen, then the unrealistic propping will continue to doom the character. Undoing it might be the best and only way to salvage the character. They've already moved her on to the next thing anyway that has nothing to do with Jack. She's still an unrepentant liar who thinks she's owed something. TPTB are obviously committed to forcing her to work and will keep moving her around until something clicks or they give up. They may as well unhook her as the albatross from around Jack's neck. She's done nothing but drag him down since she's been connected to him.

Olivia didn't insert herself into anything with Elliot or his kids this episode. As was already mentioned, it was implied that she was invited to the graveside thing. Kathleen at least has sought her out before for help with their father. None of them seemed to have a problem when they knew that it was Olivia and Noah who were supposed to be the ones showing up at the family dinner at the end. Elliot is the one who called her to help when they first found out where Eli was when he called after going missing. That was established in the car ride to pick him up wasn't it? She wouldn't have known anything about it if Elliot hadn't brought her into it. When Elliot was first going in to see Eli at the police station, she was prepared to wait outside until he was done. Again, Elliot was the one who asked her to come in with him. She didn't insert herself into anything in this episode. I don't really think she has ever. I thought Eli's reaction to seeing Olivia was more about him thinking he was getting arrested or something for the murder of that girl. That he knew his Dad couldn't do it, so he brought in his friend. Eli wouldn't be thinking about how it wasn't even their jurisdiction or anything like that. If Kathy ever had a problem with Olivia she should have taken it up with her husband. Or done something more mature than ghostwriting letters like she was still in high school. Elliot should have had the courage to deal with his wife's insecurities directly rather than placating her and feeding unnecessary drama by giving Olivia a letter he didn't write or want her to have. Seems to me like the problems in the Stabler marriage were more on them and their issues than anything Olivia ever supposedly did.

Not really. There are a lot missing. It's pretty much the same as Beyond Salem minus Ciara, Ben, Carrie, and Austin. With Will's siblings, mother, EJ, Nicole, Gabi, Tripp, Paulina, Chanel, Nick all added. No Steve, Kayla, Jack, Doug, Julie, Abby, Roman, Kate, Abby, Lucas, Belle, Shawn, Ciara, Ben, Jake, Philip, Chole, Lani, Rafe, Ava, Eli. There are probably others. Mostly the same people who can't get anything decent on the regular show either. Doesn't sound like a very Salem Christmas with some of those characters.

So has Gwen. By Jack. Many times. Xander and Gwen are stupid to think that Jack is somehow being inflexible, judgmental, or hypocritical because he's tired of Gwen's shit. I mean, how DARE he? He's given this virtual stranger multiple chances to not lie to his face and stop attacking his other child and she continues to selfishly do what's best for her. The AUDACITY of him to expect basic decency from someone who has done horrible, vicious things to him and his family. What more do they want from him? He brushed aside her trying to KILL his other child. He let her get away with trying to keep him away from the love of his life who he's already spent so much time separated from. Her sad, sad, story doesn't somehow entitle her to some free pass to just treat people however she wants with impunity. In addition to the "well Jack has done bad things too" Jack's rape of Kayla has been thrown out as another reason he shouldn't be mad at Gwen. I was surprised Xander didn't think to use that as the ultimate low blow. Yeah, Jack's done bad things. The worst being over 30 years ago where he actually had to SUFFER some consequences. That's the difference here. He's paid his dues and actually learned from his mistakes. Xander and Gwen seem to think she can do whatever she wants, offer a half-assed apology, and all should be forgiven and she shouldn't have to suffer any consequences for her actions. Jack was hated by most of Salem for YEARS after what he did to Kayla. He stopped being the nasty person he was and actually TRIED to change and be a better person. He's had to suffer consequences for his latest indiscretions as well. He cheated on his wife and had to live with the fact she didn't want to be with him for a while and would have had to deal with it if she'd decided to end their marriage over that betrayal. Gwen isn't special. She isn't immune from the consequences of her actions just because Jack, or Abigail, have "done some bad things too." If she wants Jack to not be mad, then stop lying to him. Accept that he isn't going to cut Abigail out of his life just for you. She's still blaming Abigail for all her life's problems instead of accepting responsibility for herself. Xander needed to keep his mouth shut. It's easy to be all righteous when you aren't the one being lied to daily for over a year and it's not your loved ones being attacked. But just wait a bit Xander. I'm sure you'll be singing a different tune once Gwen lies to you about something important. I can't wait until someone reminds YOU, that "you've done bad things too," so you can't be mad.

At no point has any of this Gwen mess, in any shape or form, been about Jack. He has had almost NO POV about anything. He's just been the vehicle through which the show tried to give the flailing dud Gwen a tie to Salem. He's been nothing but a prop whose characterization has been so twisted to the point of unrecognizable to tell poor, poor Gwen's sad, sad story. Gwen gets multiple repetitive monologues about why she is the way she is and why she does what she does to the point of ridiculousness, but crickets from Jack unless it's to serve the purpose of propping Gwen. He doesn't even show up onscreen unless it's with Gwen or talking about Gwen. Gwen, Gwen, and more Gwen. Like or dislike JnJ, but every other word, thought, or action has never been "Jennifer." It was SO refreshing to see him briefly interacting with Doug and Julie and it not having anything to do with Gwen. Him and Julie used to mix it up all the time back in the day. He still lives with Julie, but nothing else with them about Doug's situation. Jack was close with John and Marlena during Jen's coma, he could be another one noticing something off with her or he could be talking with her about how he's felt since the retcon showed up, but no. He's nothing but Gwen's fool to lie to. She doesn't care about him. It's all about making up for her bad life. Even this most recent episode she's going on about how he would look at HER. Nothing about how he might have felt about being lied to all this time. Has she ever apologized to him for trying to kill his beloved daughter. Trying to break up his marriage to the love of his life? Setting up his son to be a witness to all of it? Nope. All about Gwen and her feelings. But it's HIS story. This was never his story. It's ALWAYS been Gwen's. RC, KC, or whoever decided she was going to be a "thing" no matter what and they are still bouncing her around trying to make it happen no matter what character has to be sacrificed. They talk only about her in interviews. How she's affected. Not anyone else. He's also never been "torn" between Gwen and Abigail. One of the most nonsensical, OOC, features of this story has been Jack's quick and total willingness to turn his back multiple times on the child he raised and basically forget about his other child in favor of the lying attempted murder Gwen. Sure, this isn't about Jennifer. But it sure as hell ain't about Jack. Not by a long shot. If anyone really cares about Jack's character, they should be praying for Jennifer because being Gwen's daddy is destroying him. Once the writers are ready to move Gwen on to the next attempt to make anyone care about her, Jack will have served his purpose and disappear, and somehow it will be Jennifer's fault. Not the useless retcon.

Cry me a river Gwen. You care so much about an individual's privacy? You didn't care about medical privacy when you were researching Abigail's history to know what drugs to use that would make Abigail hallucinate and appear to be suffering again from mental illness did you? How about all those other times you did whatever it took to get what you wanted? As the saying goes, "what goes around, comes around." Or another one: "Don't start none, won't be none." YOU started all of this, but want to cry foul when you get back just a little of what you've thrown out? "Wah, wah, Abigail was mean to me about a baby I only had because I slept with her husband after telling that husband that she was sleeping with his brother, she exposed the malicious lie I told about her, she was BORN." STFU. Abigail doesn't owe her any courtesy. Why Gwen thinks she does just shows how entitled and stupid she is. She tried to kill someone (although that conveniently never gets mentioned anymore, just lying to Chad) and have told all these lies about this person with no provocation from her, but she better not DARE to try to retaliate. She should make peace for me and Daddy, but ME, I get to use my sad story to continue to lie. The dumb bitch really thinks she has some free pass to just go around doing whatever she wants. She doesn't seem to comprehend why Jack might just be a little pissed off that after he's given her multiple chances and passes that her continuing to go after Abigail might just be a problem for him. Jack is always going to love and want Abigail. Deal with it Gwen. You aren't a replacement. She seems to think that now that she's around, Abigail should just disappear so she can have her turn with Daddy. It doesn't work like that. But I want to see her go after Kayla. You don't want that smoke Gwen. As Jack pointed out, Steve saved you from prison. I'd love to see his reaction to you setting your bulls eye on Kayla.

Gwen next.

Lying to hurt someone isn't terrorizing them? Deliberately making someone think they had a part in killing a baby isn't terrorizing them? Okay. Her continuing to lie about her miscarriage is still terrorizing Abigail and the rest of the family. She KNOWS full well that Abigail blamed herself for what happened to that child when she KNOWS that Abigail had absolutely NOTHING to do with her having a miscarriage. Even BEFORE Abigail showed up and told her exactly how sorry she was, she knew. That's the entire point of the lie in the first place. To hurt Abigail. You don't have to be actively poisoning someone, and telling nasty lives to break up multiple families to terrorize someone. The dumb, twisted wench is still intent on hurting Abigail for daring to have had the childhood she thinks she was entitled to. And by extension, she hurts the rest of that family because they care about Abigail's well-being. Jack showed that this week. When has she EVER been shown to, without it benefitting her selfish wants and what she thinks is owed to her, care about anyone else's well-being other than herself and now Xander (which is wrapped up in him doing something for HER or how someone is treating HER nice for once)? That would be growth. She's been actively lying about one nasty, terrible thing after another for over a year now. When does this supposed growth take place. Any real character development would have already started way back in January when the retcon was first revealed. It's October and she's stilly lying and singing the same sad song as then. There's no growth. Just pushing her on to something else in hopes that everyone just forgets about the rest. Telling Xander means absolutely nothing. She knows Xander is just as much as a immoral degenerate as she is that gets off on hurting people. She didn't confess anything until after Xander showed that he would lie for her anyway. Tell Jack. Tell Abigail. Then it might mean something. She's only worried about what Jack thinks now because Jack has given her MULTIPLE opportunities to come clean and she's continued to lie protect only herself. She knows that even stupid Jack might have a limit to how much he can take being lied to and made a fool of. Jack barely blinked at her trying to KILL his other child and doesn't even mention all her other shit. She's had more than enough proof that she can manipulate the fool Jack as much as she wants by producing some big, fat tears with her now standard line: "I never had a ________ before" filling in the blank with whatever suits the listener the best. The result is her never seriously having to be held responsible for every nasty thing she's done even though Jack also never did a thing to her. He has abandoned his other kids though. Yet they get none of the coddling of this bitch. Whatever to any "growth." I ain't seeing it. She has no reason to continue to lie other than she wants tp hurt Abigail by continuing to let her feel guilty that her spite baby didn't want her for a mother. She knows deep down too that if Jack were really honest with himself and didn't feel so sorry and guilty, he would prefer that Abigail and JJ were the only kids he had. And that's 100% on GWEN.

When did she stop? She's still lying about her miscarriage. She stood there and let Abigail apologize to her for something she had nothing to do with. She manipulates Jack with Jack's guilt about his past with no concern about how he's affected. Has she ever apologized to Jennifer for humiliating her, trying to kill her child, actually killing her mother? JJ? No. She just thinks everyone should accept her and forgive because of her sad, sad, story. That's all it should take. No real effort on her part. Real growth would be to tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may and accept that it's HER own fault. She still hasn't taken much responsibility for all the crap she's pulled. She's selfish and thinks she's entitled to do what she wants and excuses everything she's done because she had a rough childhood. Jack owes the overgrown thirty-something himself, his home, his family, etc. no matter what. Everyone should forgive her just because. I might accept some growth on her part if she ever drops all her sad stories as excuses. Admit that targeting Abigail never made any sense and that she did try to snuff her out. But she won't. It'll always be "poor Gwen." "Whitewash" is the perfect description. The show has stopped listing her drugging Abigail to the point of brain damage as one of her crimes. It's now just attacking Abigail's marriage that any of them mention.

Yes, my apologies. I was trying to agree w/ your overall point and clicked the wrong button. My fault . . .

But it's Jack that needs THEM? No way. The fact that Jack has existed for 30+ years WITHOUT such propping, but Gwen has been nothing BUT propped most of the year she's been around proves his worth. What does the nasty wench have without Jack? Exactly.

Seriously. The idea that THEY are propping him is a real stretch and just not true at all. And as for his daughter and wife being "long gone," it's not like they voluntarily abandoned him did they? The nasty retcon had a hand in both of those events didn't she. They got sent off-screen so Jack had nothing to do BUT prop Gwen. The nasty bitch is STILL lying to keep Abby away from Jack. And Xander is aiding and abetting. What. A. Pal.

Especially disgusting since he didn't have anywhere near this same level of energy when he found out "poor, innocent Gwen" had drugged and made multiple attempts on the life of his actual innocent daughter. And he won't have this same energy when it eventually comes out that Gwen, even after she supposedly was trying to "change" was still coming for Abby with her disgusting lie about her miscarriage. I hope Abby spits in both their faces. But that's who this Jack is now. An illogical fool all in service of propping Gwen. NOTHING he does makes any sense whatsoever. It's just all propping/cheerleading all the time. All for such a nasty, selfish, flop of a character who doesn't deserve any of it. And once's he served his only purpose of propping this nasty bitch, he'll disappear. But she won't come entirely clean will she? She'll reveal just enough to make herself look good for confessing, but she won't tell the worst of it. She's going to still continue to lie to his face like she has been. Nasty wench. Jack doesn't need either of them. This show seems to think people want to see Jack playing Daddy to these two as if he doesn't have a son/daughter combo to interact with. Xander isn't Jack's friend. If he was he would have never lied to Jack in the first place. A friend would have told Jack the truth about Gwen when he first found out, but he's just as bad as Gwen now. Treating him like a fool and a chump. Jack has lots of other people in his life who are more loyal to him than either of those two degenerates. The show just wants to use Jack to try and redeem them. It's not about him whatsoever.

Count MA/Jack as another victim of the pointless and degenerate Gwen. She has been nothing but an anchor around the neck of the character from the moment she was revealed as Jack’s “daughter” who has done nothing but lie to his face daily since January. NOTHING good has come from tying that character to Jack. Nothing. ALL he’s done is nonsensically prop Gwen at the total expense and ruin of the Jack character Yet she will remain. No break or step back from a character everyone KNOWS is a total dud and failure. Spread all over as if she's the popular, successful character w/ 30 years of history.

Except for the "crimes" of poisoning/assault/attempted murder. The severity of those probably outweigh all that minor adultery and lying that she does. But since ALL she does (no job, school, etc.) at the moment is lie to Jack's face about one thing or another and lounge around, it might not.

They probably won't ever be prosecuted for them considering no one on this show ever really serves time for the crimes they commit and these two characters in particular seem to be especially adept at making multiple attempts at killing people with impunity, but they actually have committed a couple of crimes here depending on state laws. One, they failed to report Dr. Snyder's death. Even if it was an accident or if he died of natural causes, they should have dialed 911 and reported that he died. Failure to do so IS a crime in some states. Especially when it's done in the attempt to cover up other crimes. They also moved a corpse from one location to another without the excuse that they were trying to preserve evidence or keep the body from being destroyed. Another crime depending on state laws. Some states even consider moving a body as desecration of a corpse, which is also a crime. Given that Xander, with Gwen's knowledge, dumped Snyder's body in a large body of water, desecration would be particularly applicable. They must have known what water does to corpses and chose the lake with that intention. Despite the cartoons, sofa jokes, and other wacky hijinks, I haven't found this entire thing all that funny. It's actually kind of gross. Yeah, Dr. Snyder is supposed to be the big, bad guy being mean to poor, poor Gwen, but dealing drugs and blackmailing someone isn't a reason his body should be disrespected like it has or that his family or anyone else who might care about him should not know he died and what happened to him. Nothing he did was any worse than anything Gwen and Xander have ever done. But them hiding his body and lying about it is fun! Quirky! Something for them to bond and get off on! Oh, no, it's supposed to be about protecting Jack somehow . . . 🙄

Huh. What is it exactly that Abigail ever did to Gwen that she has a reason to "get back at" her for it? I mean, is there something specific? Anything prior to Gwen's multiple attempts to kill her and destroy her life? Is it that Abigail dared to not like that Gwen tried to kill her? Permanently altered her brain? Lied to her husband about something she did? Slept with her husband? Tried to destroy her parents' marriage? Set her up to contribute to Gwen's planned humiliation of her mother? Manipulate her brother back from another continent so he could witness said humiliation? Kill her grandmother? Accuse her of pushing her down stairs and killing the baby that she miscarried before she ever showed up? Be an overall, remorseless, obsessive, sociopathic bitch? Nope, couldn't be any of that because those are all things that GWEN did to Abigail with no provocation whatsoever from the latter. Things that Abigail should "get back at" Gwen for, not vice versa. But, of course, when Abigail tries, she's somehow "smug," "crazy" and "obsessed", but Gwen? "Poor, poor, Gwen." The character of Gwen continues to be a senseless, directionless, mess that contributes nothing. She's worried, NOW that Jack might not like what she did to Abigail? Why now? What's different this time? As already noted, she's done a dozen other just as, if not, more heinous things to Abigail and Jack hasn't given a shit, so why does she care now? And she's still not addressing the crux of the issue. What the fuck is she even still so mad at Abigail for anyway? YOU are the one who fucked up in going after her to begin with Gwen. But you don't want to admit that. She just wants to continue to blame everyone else for her shortcomings. And she's gotten away with it all by and large, but she can't let it go. A selfish wench. Gotta make Abigail, for some mysterious reason, pay for her sad, sad, childhood. But Jack has shown he isn't going to do anything, no matter what she does to Abigail, so I guess it makes sense to her to keep trying. Except now. For reasons. Sounds like another pivot in the many attempts to salvage this mess of a character. Someone finally got a clue that her many, many sob stories weren't cutting it for why she repeatedly keeps getting a free pass for all the lies she tells. That she's still not endearing herself to the audience at-large despite their multiple and continued attempts. That it was Abigail, NOT the always-propped Gwen, that the audience is rooting for and is sympathetic towards when TPTB probably intended the opposite. So now Abigail's gone, and Gwen STILL isn't a hit. What now? Wacky hijinks with Xander and a dead body! Make Jack look even more stupid and clueless than he already has. If this latest lie somehow makes a difference, but they don't explain why all the other ones didn't or what makes this one different, she's still just as pointless as she ever was. And Jack still looks like her chump and fool.

Even though her existence depended on it, she should have resented her own parents if she thought it was (or still does) weird. Not Julie. Her parents were the ones who decided that there was nothing wrong with them getting together and having children despite their connections to Julie. Not that there was anything technically wrong. They were consenting adults. I personally find it sort of sketchy that a mother would date a man after that man was in a relationship with her daughter, but that's just me . . . I don't know if Hope ever questioned her parents about all the weirdness, but that's where her focus should have been. Not on Julie. I don't mind Julie like others do. I hope she keeps throwing truth bombs and shade at idiots like Jack and Gwen who she owes nothing and continues to defend and look out for her family when they are attacked.

Yeah, Gwen shouldn't have ever been allowed in that house considering all that she's done to multiple members of that family. If Jack wants to play daddy to her, do it in someone else's house. She is considered family to no one but him. Julie isn't one bit wrong to not want Gwen and all her hysterical drama in the place where she lives. They gloss over it now and act like sleeping with Chad was the worse thing she's done, but Gwen DID try and KILL Abigail. Who the hell would want someone like that in their home? It's real easy for Jennifer to okay it as she doesn't have to live in it. Speaking of, Jack is too wrapped up in babysitting Gwen's overgrown ass to see, but he should really be questioning why his wife is content and not rushing home to him. Jennifer isn't and keeps delaying coming back. I don't care what the excuse is, she doesn't want to be there with Gwen. But that doesn't click with pathetic Jack. His only concern to wipe Gwen's ass. Yet she continues to reward him by lying to his face. Yet the child who has dealt with and forgiven him repeatedly for being a lousy parent he treats like dirt. Chad needs to STFU about Abby being "obsessed" with Gwen. It was his obsession with Jake that led to him believing Gwen's first nasty lie about his wife in the first place. The only person "obsessed" is Gwen. It was her obsession with Abigail that has caused all of this destruction. And she is STILL obsessed with Abigail as evidenced by her continuing to lie about her spite baby. She is yet again blaming Abigail for something she did NOT do. Abigail had nothing to do with Gwen's miscarriage, yet Gwen is once again making Abigail pay and suffer because "poor Gwen" had a rough childhood. She needs a therapist, not to get her foolish and childish delusions rewarded by getting to play house with Jack. Chad and Jack are such stupid fools to keep running after Gwen with their stupid need to "check up" on her. Why does this bitch need "checking up" on? She's at least 30. She needs a job. I hope Jack and Chad get dragged by anyone and everyone and made to feel like the stupid, gullible, fools that they are when it's revealed that surprise! once again, Gwen told a nasty lie. I mean, how many times can Gwen get away with these nasty, hurtful, destructive lies about someone who has done NOTHING to her to warrant them? I mean, what even is the point if she never suffers any consequences? She just gets to keep going around lying? She is NOT a character with the history, ties, bonds, and time that deserves such devotion. NO one besides Jack and Chad give a damn about her and her "trauma." Maybe people would care about her "trauma" Jack if she stopped causing so much other trauma to others for no reason.

Hell, with the way Jack has been acting he might not even care. It wouldn't be one bit surprising with this current OOC version of Jack, that he won't care that Gwen, despite all her bullshit claims about wanting to start fresh and have a relationship with Abigail, lied and accused Abigail of pushing her down some stairs to kill her baby. All she has to do is cry some big, fat, fake tears and Jack will just pat her on the back, give her a big dad hug and tell her it's okay. He might even commend her for coming out with the truth on her own! She's such a big girl now! Daddy will be so proud! She will be welcomed with open arms into the family home of multiple people she tried to destroy. Gwen is the absolute worst. The overgrown baby burns down and destroys people's lives and relationships and thinks that she should just get to move on when she's ready and just leaves those people to deal with and suffer from the damage she's caused. The only way to salvage this story and Jack as character is if Jack is pulling some sort of double-cross. That he's been playing Gwen this whole time to make her pay for what she did to Abigail. Maybe he's letting her think he's on her side to keep her off her guard while he gathers evidence or something in regards to her poisoning Abigail for months. What she did was obviously criminal as Gabi was charged/questioned wasn't she? They all know it was her. Why no one is looking for evidence is stupid. The police should be investigating her regardless of what Jack or Chad think. All Abigail needed to do was report the new information she had when Gwen revealed who she was. It would be great to see Jack turn the tables on her and let her know that he would never let some rando, no matter whose child she is, fuck with his family, especially his wife and baby girl, like she has. He wouldn't have been able to tell anyone so that Gwen really believed he was taking her side like he has. But that would probably be too interesting for these writers. They will just keep trying to force Gwen as someone the audience should care about despite the awful things she's done with no real consequences for anything. She just keeps lying and doing nasty things. She's still such a pointless, useless character. It's absolutely correct that making her Jack's daughter does nothing to increase her relevance or purposefulness. She's just a hateful, nasty wench who keeps getting new stories to try and make her a thing. I'm expecting an illness next as her latest sob story. She's had so far: bad childhood, daddy didn't love me/loved my sibling more, Laura made the villain, Abigail is just so, so mean to her, miracle baby dies, pushed down some stairs, and more to come!

Gwen didn't proclaim her innocence to anyone but Jack and the police. Everyone else other than Abigail has believed what she said happened. She hasn't suffered one bit because of what happened with Laura. It's not as if Abigail needed the Laura incident to hate Gwen. She already had plenty of reasons to rightly hate Gwen. Gwen is just so entitled that she thinks that her rough childhood justifies all that she does and the people she's wronged should just get over it. She is always just so hurt and confused about why people don't like her as if she's done nothing wrong. Why would Abigail rethink anything about what happened with Laura? If anything, this current incident just reinforces her original thought that Gwen lied about what happened. Gwen is currently lying about another accident, so she could have very well lied about what happened to Laura. She is a known liar. The fact that people like Chad and Jack continue to trust her and find it so implausible that she would be so nasty when she has already shown them multiple times how capable she is just further makes them look foolish. If I were Abigail, I would cut Jack off and let him have the sociopath daughter he wants so much. He's no father to her. It's entirely what he deserves at this point. Gwen is a psychotic, narcissistic, bottomless pit that he'll spend the rest of his life trying to fill. What he doesn't get is that it'll never be enough. She'll succeed at getting Abby out of his life, but she won't be happy with that. She'll be jealous of Jennifer and her place in his life next and go after her. She's already shown she'll target Jennifer if it suits her. Then JJ. Steve. It'll never end. She doesn't give a damn about Jack other than what he can do to make up to her for a lousy childhood. She doesn't care about his feelings at all and all the while Jack is treating those who do love him and have put up with a lot from him because of that love like insignificant pests compared to "poor Gwen." He deserves ALL of the fallout when he sees that Gwen ain't shit and not worth losing his family over.

Jack really is SUCH a disappointment. Him and Chad are just being portrayed as so, so, stupid to keep believing a known liar who is still basically a damn stranger to them when compared to Abigail. Someone who has done nothing but lie and manipulate them and continues to do so because she just keeps getting away with it. She can admit she lies and does horrible things, but gets hugs and pats on the backs from super daddy, so she just keeps going. Jack and Chad are nothing but Gwen's little toys to do with as she pleases at this point. "Psycho" and "obsession" are the perfect descriptions for her. I just want to see what Jack's reaction will be to the latest lie. What excuse will he give this time to absolve Gwen? Hell, Gwen should just take Abby out this time. Jack and Chad won't care. Then she can really step in and take her place. And why does he keep calling Jennifer to talk about fucking Gwen? Jack has turned selfish in addition to gullible as a result of being stuck with Gwen. Everything is about him and his guilt. Maybe Jennifer doesn't want to constantly hear the "poor Gwen" refrain, Jack. I mean, Gwen did attempt to kill her daughter, killed her mother, tried to destroy her marriage, and set her up to be humiliated. But Jack doesn't consider any of that at all. If not being written so OOC, why the fuck would Jennifer keep taking his calls that only seem to be about Gwen. How about Jack support her for a change. Or how about addressing the elephant in the room about why she's available to hear him whine about poor, poor, misunderstood Gwen, but can't come back to Salem. Jennifer should be worried about her own daughter and should be cool toward Gwen at best. She should at least be able to point out to Jack that Nicole did the same thing to her. But, no. Everything in service of poor, poor Gwen. I'm sorry, but this Stepford version of Jennifer that just goes along with whatever Jack says ain't it.

There were no witnesses that anyone knows of at the moment. Gwen, who at that point was already known to have told several vicious lies, was taken entirely at her word by Jack, Chad, everyone except Abigail, that it was an accident. So, if they even dare to say anything other than accident to Abigail, no matter what Gwen the liar claims, then they deserve to continue have Gwen make them look like the foolish chumps they are. But Chad and Jack have already taken such hits as characters to prop Gwen, this would just be another KO. I never bought any of her claims of wanting a real relationship with Abigail, so if she lies about anything, then it’s just true to form. Why would anyone believe her to be sincere when she still refuses to admit to poisoning Abigail. Her, Chad, and Jack act like sleeping with Chad was no big deal and Abigail should just get over it. Two cheaters would think that, but um, no. I would never make friends with the person who tried to kill me by poisoning me for months. Doesn’t matter whose daughter they turned out to be.

Precisely. And watch Gwen likely turn into a raging hypocrite in addition to malicious sociopathic liar if she expects Abigail to be punished to the high heavens for her accidental fall. And it was an accident. Either of them could have ended up at the bottom of those stairs. Or she'll claim to finally have an actual reason to hate and go after Abigail and keep ignoring the fact that she had no such reason before. Gwen will expect punishment and retribution from Abigail for an accident when she's been walking around demanding, while being enabled by Jack and Chad, immediate forgiveness and acceptance for all her deliberate actions against Abigail for Abigail's crimes of growing up (barely) with her father. She'll probably demand Abigail pay for something she KNOWS Abigail didn't do when she was in the same exact scenario pretty much with Laura and that was chalked up to an accident. F-her. You reap what you sow Gwen.