KBrownie

But everyone should totally trust the random people, blogs, and third-hand sources on Twitter and FB though. I mean, the point is absolutely true, but the actors get way more scrutiny about what they post than the super random people on Twitter who supposedly know entire storylines that people just repeat as fact so many times that it becomes fact even though no one reputable has supported it. I guess it doesn't matter as the truth will be revealed eventually, but I just find it funny that the actors get more scrutiny than random Twitter posts. At least the actors have a pic as some proof. Twitter is just "I heard . . . ," "Insiders are reporting . . . " a bunch of times 😕 .

Yet what does she think smashing a rock in the back of her head might do? She's already crossed that line. Multiple times. She's just gotten lucky that Abigail hasn't died. Her poisoning of Abigail could have killed her. This isn't some magnanimous gesture or small moment that shows Gwen to NOT be a complete sociopath. She still did it. Oh, I'm sure she'll cry her trademark big, fat tears to Jack about how she's so sorry, but she's been past the point of no return. She doesn't value Abigail's life. Not even what Abigail means to the person she claims to want to have in her life so much. This is just one of the many reasons why it makes no sense for Jack, Jennifer, or anyone associated with Abigail, to want to have anything to do with her. She never learns. How many attempts does she get to make on Abigail's life before enough is enough? Abigail needs to get an order of protection from this bitch after this latest incident and cut anyone who has a problem with it out of her life.

Eh, Laura isn’t responsible for Gwen’s bad childhood. She’s just another scapegoat to make the retcon’s existence make some kind of sense and give her yet another reason to justify being a heinous, nasty wench. Gwen’s terrible, no good, bad childhood falls entirely at the hands of her own mother. Gwen’s mother alone is responsible for what Gwen’s childhood ended up being. Laura didn’t make Gwen’s mother not tell Jack she was supposedly pregnant with his kid from the moment she knew she was pregnant. Laura didn’t make her wait until Gwen was what, eight, ten, twelve, whatever the story is, to try and tell Jack. Laura didn’t make her take the money. She chose money over giving her daughter a father. She had already decided that Jack should not know way before Laura came into the picture. Laura was wrong no doubt, but her inclusion in this story was just more propping of the dud retcon, so I don’t care. And whatever Laura did has nothing to do with Jennifer. Jennifer doesn’t have to like or deal with Gwen because her mother did something wrong. Gwen does not get to keep attacking Jennifer’s family and she just has to let it go because of Laura’s actions. Whatever. It’s been obvious from the moment Laura appeared that Laura was going to be sacrificed to try and give Gwen more of a sad story to whitewash and excuse everything she does. Jack and now Jennifer will probably continue to have their characterization ruined to prop Gwen because she apparently isn’t ever going to be held accountable for anything she does. She’ll cry some nice, fat tears, promise to change, cry about not having anyone, and Jack will cry and she’ll turn around and tell another lie to his face. But nothing is ever her fault and she doesn’t have to take responsibility for anything! I hope Sarah comes after her looking for blood.

Not likely. Unless there’s some source other than CM’s FB post where she says she’s back filming, BUT doesn’t say where or what character. Or even if she’s acting. She could be directing. People saw “filming,” blond hair, and Jennifer left Salem this week and ran with it. However, there are other, more reliable sources that Missy is, and has been, back filming. Jason’s Days site on FB has her pic included as recurring cast on on a BTS cast chart. Her husband has commented multiple times on his IG about her being back filming as well. These CM rumors only popped up because her post about filming coincided with Jennifer leaving Salem again.

Shhh! 🤫 You’re not supposed to remember that Gwen did any of that illegal, homicidal stuff. She just “hurt” a bunch of people. You have to love her and feel sorry that she had a rough childhood. Everyone says so. She doesn’t have to be hel accountable for ANYTHING because of this. Sarah, just like Abigail, Jennifer, and the rest of her victims will be expected to just get over it once Gwen squeezes out her trademark big, fat tears and goes crying to insta-daddy who will make it all better. I can’t wait to see who else will be dragged into propping Gwen next to excuse her latest round of sociopathic behavior. Maggie and Jennifer had their turns this week. Who else is left?

The Gwen propping today is off the charts INSANE. Jack and Jennifer are leaving for who knows how long after just getting Jennifer back and we have to spend TWO whole days with them either spending time with or talking about useless, waste Gwen. I mean, OF COURSE Jennifer was going to have to put her time in to whitewash and make all the deliberate and intentional crimes of this failure of retcon somehow acceptable and okay. They couldn't let Jennifer understandably, reasonably and realistically harbor any anger or resentment towards Gwen for all the nasty, reprehensible things she did to Jennifer's family. Nope. She has to just get on board with ignoring and excusing to prop such a worthless, selfish, entitled, character. Gwen could give AF about any of them. Jack, and now Jennifer are falling all over themselves making excuses for her and welcoming her, and coddling her and she just laps it all up but has nothing for anyone in return. She's STILL attacking Abby for no reason and they just stand there like it nothing. What a waste of a visit. Jack and Jennifer don't even mention their other child, but spend all their time on this bitch. I CANNOT wait for JJ to show up and take his turn of welcoming Gwen into a family she intentionally and non-sensically tried to destroy. Viable characters shouldn't need such support. They should be able to stand on their own. The absolute anithesis of TELLING and DICTATING, rather than showing by action. This show KNOWS Gwen is a utter failure, but will keep forcing her square into this round hole. You MUST like her. You MUST feel sorry for poor, poor Gwen. EVERYTHING she did was for a reason and shouldn't be held against her. I wasn't around for Dr. Tan, but I've heard all about it. This has to have or be reaching those levels, yes? Unbelievable.

Agree. She made Gwen, who imagines herself as the ultimate victim, look like the whining, entitled, pathetic trash she is.

The retcon of making her Jack's was a stupid and pointless move to begin with. It smacked of desperation to make the character relevant and has been a total failure. There's no way for that to ever work with all she's done to that family. Jack has been made to look like a total fool by just whitewashing her crimes and lies. And now with Jennifer coming back, if they try to make her in any way pro-Gwen, then the unrealistic propping will continue to doom the character. Undoing it might be the best and only way to salvage the character. They've already moved her on to the next thing anyway that has nothing to do with Jack. She's still an unrepentant liar who thinks she's owed something. TPTB are obviously committed to forcing her to work and will keep moving her around until something clicks or they give up. They may as well unhook her as the albatross from around Jack's neck. She's done nothing but drag him down since she's been connected to him.

Olivia didn't insert herself into anything with Elliot or his kids this episode. As was already mentioned, it was implied that she was invited to the graveside thing. Kathleen at least has sought her out before for help with their father. None of them seemed to have a problem when they knew that it was Olivia and Noah who were supposed to be the ones showing up at the family dinner at the end. Elliot is the one who called her to help when they first found out where Eli was when he called after going missing. That was established in the car ride to pick him up wasn't it? She wouldn't have known anything about it if Elliot hadn't brought her into it. When Elliot was first going in to see Eli at the police station, she was prepared to wait outside until he was done. Again, Elliot was the one who asked her to come in with him. She didn't insert herself into anything in this episode. I don't really think she has ever. I thought Eli's reaction to seeing Olivia was more about him thinking he was getting arrested or something for the murder of that girl. That he knew his Dad couldn't do it, so he brought in his friend. Eli wouldn't be thinking about how it wasn't even their jurisdiction or anything like that. If Kathy ever had a problem with Olivia she should have taken it up with her husband. Or done something more mature than ghostwriting letters like she was still in high school. Elliot should have had the courage to deal with his wife's insecurities directly rather than placating her and feeding unnecessary drama by giving Olivia a letter he didn't write or want her to have. Seems to me like the problems in the Stabler marriage were more on them and their issues than anything Olivia ever supposedly did.

Not really. There are a lot missing. It's pretty much the same as Beyond Salem minus Ciara, Ben, Carrie, and Austin. With Will's siblings, mother, EJ, Nicole, Gabi, Tripp, Paulina, Chanel, Nick all added. No Steve, Kayla, Jack, Doug, Julie, Abby, Roman, Kate, Abby, Lucas, Belle, Shawn, Ciara, Ben, Jake, Philip, Chole, Lani, Rafe, Ava, Eli. There are probably others. Mostly the same people who can't get anything decent on the regular show either. Doesn't sound like a very Salem Christmas with some of those characters.

So has Gwen. By Jack. Many times. Xander and Gwen are stupid to think that Jack is somehow being inflexible, judgmental, or hypocritical because he's tired of Gwen's shit. I mean, how DARE he? He's given this virtual stranger multiple chances to not lie to his face and stop attacking his other child and she continues to selfishly do what's best for her. The AUDACITY of him to expect basic decency from someone who has done horrible, vicious things to him and his family. What more do they want from him? He brushed aside her trying to KILL his other child. He let her get away with trying to keep him away from the love of his life who he's already spent so much time separated from. Her sad, sad, story doesn't somehow entitle her to some free pass to just treat people however she wants with impunity. In addition to the "well Jack has done bad things too" Jack's rape of Kayla has been thrown out as another reason he shouldn't be mad at Gwen. I was surprised Xander didn't think to use that as the ultimate low blow. Yeah, Jack's done bad things. The worst being over 30 years ago where he actually had to SUFFER some consequences. That's the difference here. He's paid his dues and actually learned from his mistakes. Xander and Gwen seem to think she can do whatever she wants, offer a half-assed apology, and all should be forgiven and she shouldn't have to suffer any consequences for her actions. Jack was hated by most of Salem for YEARS after what he did to Kayla. He stopped being the nasty person he was and actually TRIED to change and be a better person. He's had to suffer consequences for his latest indiscretions as well. He cheated on his wife and had to live with the fact she didn't want to be with him for a while and would have had to deal with it if she'd decided to end their marriage over that betrayal. Gwen isn't special. She isn't immune from the consequences of her actions just because Jack, or Abigail, have "done some bad things too." If she wants Jack to not be mad, then stop lying to him. Accept that he isn't going to cut Abigail out of his life just for you. She's still blaming Abigail for all her life's problems instead of accepting responsibility for herself. Xander needed to keep his mouth shut. It's easy to be all righteous when you aren't the one being lied to daily for over a year and it's not your loved ones being attacked. But just wait a bit Xander. I'm sure you'll be singing a different tune once Gwen lies to you about something important. I can't wait until someone reminds YOU, that "you've done bad things too," so you can't be mad.

At no point has any of this Gwen mess, in any shape or form, been about Jack. He has had almost NO POV about anything. He's just been the vehicle through which the show tried to give the flailing dud Gwen a tie to Salem. He's been nothing but a prop whose characterization has been so twisted to the point of unrecognizable to tell poor, poor Gwen's sad, sad story. Gwen gets multiple repetitive monologues about why she is the way she is and why she does what she does to the point of ridiculousness, but crickets from Jack unless it's to serve the purpose of propping Gwen. He doesn't even show up onscreen unless it's with Gwen or talking about Gwen. Gwen, Gwen, and more Gwen. Like or dislike JnJ, but every other word, thought, or action has never been "Jennifer." It was SO refreshing to see him briefly interacting with Doug and Julie and it not having anything to do with Gwen. Him and Julie used to mix it up all the time back in the day. He still lives with Julie, but nothing else with them about Doug's situation. Jack was close with John and Marlena during Jen's coma, he could be another one noticing something off with her or he could be talking with her about how he's felt since the retcon showed up, but no. He's nothing but Gwen's fool to lie to. She doesn't care about him. It's all about making up for her bad life. Even this most recent episode she's going on about how he would look at HER. Nothing about how he might have felt about being lied to all this time. Has she ever apologized to him for trying to kill his beloved daughter. Trying to break up his marriage to the love of his life? Setting up his son to be a witness to all of it? Nope. All about Gwen and her feelings. But it's HIS story. This was never his story. It's ALWAYS been Gwen's. RC, KC, or whoever decided she was going to be a "thing" no matter what and they are still bouncing her around trying to make it happen no matter what character has to be sacrificed. They talk only about her in interviews. How she's affected. Not anyone else. He's also never been "torn" between Gwen and Abigail. One of the most nonsensical, OOC, features of this story has been Jack's quick and total willingness to turn his back multiple times on the child he raised and basically forget about his other child in favor of the lying attempted murder Gwen. Sure, this isn't about Jennifer. But it sure as hell ain't about Jack. Not by a long shot. If anyone really cares about Jack's character, they should be praying for Jennifer because being Gwen's daddy is destroying him. Once the writers are ready to move Gwen on to the next attempt to make anyone care about her, Jack will have served his purpose and disappear, and somehow it will be Jennifer's fault. Not the useless retcon.

Cry me a river Gwen. You care so much about an individual's privacy? You didn't care about medical privacy when you were researching Abigail's history to know what drugs to use that would make Abigail hallucinate and appear to be suffering again from mental illness did you? How about all those other times you did whatever it took to get what you wanted? As the saying goes, "what goes around, comes around." Or another one: "Don't start none, won't be none." YOU started all of this, but want to cry foul when you get back just a little of what you've thrown out? "Wah, wah, Abigail was mean to me about a baby I only had because I slept with her husband after telling that husband that she was sleeping with his brother, she exposed the malicious lie I told about her, she was BORN." STFU. Abigail doesn't owe her any courtesy. Why Gwen thinks she does just shows how entitled and stupid she is. She tried to kill someone (although that conveniently never gets mentioned anymore, just lying to Chad) and have told all these lies about this person with no provocation from her, but she better not DARE to try to retaliate. She should make peace for me and Daddy, but ME, I get to use my sad story to continue to lie. The dumb bitch really thinks she has some free pass to just go around doing whatever she wants. She doesn't seem to comprehend why Jack might just be a little pissed off that after he's given her multiple chances and passes that her continuing to go after Abigail might just be a problem for him. Jack is always going to love and want Abigail. Deal with it Gwen. You aren't a replacement. She seems to think that now that she's around, Abigail should just disappear so she can have her turn with Daddy. It doesn't work like that. But I want to see her go after Kayla. You don't want that smoke Gwen. As Jack pointed out, Steve saved you from prison. I'd love to see his reaction to you setting your bulls eye on Kayla.

Gwen next.

Lying to hurt someone isn't terrorizing them? Deliberately making someone think they had a part in killing a baby isn't terrorizing them? Okay. Her continuing to lie about her miscarriage is still terrorizing Abigail and the rest of the family. She KNOWS full well that Abigail blamed herself for what happened to that child when she KNOWS that Abigail had absolutely NOTHING to do with her having a miscarriage. Even BEFORE Abigail showed up and told her exactly how sorry she was, she knew. That's the entire point of the lie in the first place. To hurt Abigail. You don't have to be actively poisoning someone, and telling nasty lives to break up multiple families to terrorize someone. The dumb, twisted wench is still intent on hurting Abigail for daring to have had the childhood she thinks she was entitled to. And by extension, she hurts the rest of that family because they care about Abigail's well-being. Jack showed that this week. When has she EVER been shown to, without it benefitting her selfish wants and what she thinks is owed to her, care about anyone else's well-being other than herself and now Xander (which is wrapped up in him doing something for HER or how someone is treating HER nice for once)? That would be growth. She's been actively lying about one nasty, terrible thing after another for over a year now. When does this supposed growth take place. Any real character development would have already started way back in January when the retcon was first revealed. It's October and she's stilly lying and singing the same sad song as then. There's no growth. Just pushing her on to something else in hopes that everyone just forgets about the rest. Telling Xander means absolutely nothing. She knows Xander is just as much as a immoral degenerate as she is that gets off on hurting people. She didn't confess anything until after Xander showed that he would lie for her anyway. Tell Jack. Tell Abigail. Then it might mean something. She's only worried about what Jack thinks now because Jack has given her MULTIPLE opportunities to come clean and she's continued to lie protect only herself. She knows that even stupid Jack might have a limit to how much he can take being lied to and made a fool of. Jack barely blinked at her trying to KILL his other child and doesn't even mention all her other shit. She's had more than enough proof that she can manipulate the fool Jack as much as she wants by producing some big, fat tears with her now standard line: "I never had a ________ before" filling in the blank with whatever suits the listener the best. The result is her never seriously having to be held responsible for every nasty thing she's done even though Jack also never did a thing to her. He has abandoned his other kids though. Yet they get none of the coddling of this bitch. Whatever to any "growth." I ain't seeing it. She has no reason to continue to lie other than she wants tp hurt Abigail by continuing to let her feel guilty that her spite baby didn't want her for a mother. She knows deep down too that if Jack were really honest with himself and didn't feel so sorry and guilty, he would prefer that Abigail and JJ were the only kids he had. And that's 100% on GWEN.

When did she stop? She's still lying about her miscarriage. She stood there and let Abigail apologize to her for something she had nothing to do with. She manipulates Jack with Jack's guilt about his past with no concern about how he's affected. Has she ever apologized to Jennifer for humiliating her, trying to kill her child, actually killing her mother? JJ? No. She just thinks everyone should accept her and forgive because of her sad, sad, story. That's all it should take. No real effort on her part. Real growth would be to tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may and accept that it's HER own fault. She still hasn't taken much responsibility for all the crap she's pulled. She's selfish and thinks she's entitled to do what she wants and excuses everything she's done because she had a rough childhood. Jack owes the overgrown thirty-something himself, his home, his family, etc. no matter what. Everyone should forgive her just because. I might accept some growth on her part if she ever drops all her sad stories as excuses. Admit that targeting Abigail never made any sense and that she did try to snuff her out. But she won't. It'll always be "poor Gwen." "Whitewash" is the perfect description. The show has stopped listing her drugging Abigail to the point of brain damage as one of her crimes. It's now just attacking Abigail's marriage that any of them mention.

Yes, my apologies. I was trying to agree w/ your overall point and clicked the wrong button. My fault . . .

But it's Jack that needs THEM? No way. The fact that Jack has existed for 30+ years WITHOUT such propping, but Gwen has been nothing BUT propped most of the year she's been around proves his worth. What does the nasty wench have without Jack? Exactly.

Seriously. The idea that THEY are propping him is a real stretch and just not true at all. And as for his daughter and wife being "long gone," it's not like they voluntarily abandoned him did they? The nasty retcon had a hand in both of those events didn't she. They got sent off-screen so Jack had nothing to do BUT prop Gwen. The nasty bitch is STILL lying to keep Abby away from Jack. And Xander is aiding and abetting. What. A. Pal.

Especially disgusting since he didn't have anywhere near this same level of energy when he found out "poor, innocent Gwen" had drugged and made multiple attempts on the life of his actual innocent daughter. And he won't have this same energy when it eventually comes out that Gwen, even after she supposedly was trying to "change" was still coming for Abby with her disgusting lie about her miscarriage. I hope Abby spits in both their faces. But that's who this Jack is now. An illogical fool all in service of propping Gwen. NOTHING he does makes any sense whatsoever. It's just all propping/cheerleading all the time. All for such a nasty, selfish, flop of a character who doesn't deserve any of it. And once's he served his only purpose of propping this nasty bitch, he'll disappear. But she won't come entirely clean will she? She'll reveal just enough to make herself look good for confessing, but she won't tell the worst of it. She's going to still continue to lie to his face like she has been. Nasty wench. Jack doesn't need either of them. This show seems to think people want to see Jack playing Daddy to these two as if he doesn't have a son/daughter combo to interact with. Xander isn't Jack's friend. If he was he would have never lied to Jack in the first place. A friend would have told Jack the truth about Gwen when he first found out, but he's just as bad as Gwen now. Treating him like a fool and a chump. Jack has lots of other people in his life who are more loyal to him than either of those two degenerates. The show just wants to use Jack to try and redeem them. It's not about him whatsoever.

Count MA/Jack as another victim of the pointless and degenerate Gwen. She has been nothing but an anchor around the neck of the character from the moment she was revealed as Jack’s “daughter” who has done nothing but lie to his face daily since January. NOTHING good has come from tying that character to Jack. Nothing. ALL he’s done is nonsensically prop Gwen at the total expense and ruin of the Jack character Yet she will remain. No break or step back from a character everyone KNOWS is a total dud and failure. Spread all over as if she's the popular, successful character w/ 30 years of history.

Except for the "crimes" of poisoning/assault/attempted murder. The severity of those probably outweigh all that minor adultery and lying that she does. But since ALL she does (no job, school, etc.) at the moment is lie to Jack's face about one thing or another and lounge around, it might not.

They probably won't ever be prosecuted for them considering no one on this show ever really serves time for the crimes they commit and these two characters in particular seem to be especially adept at making multiple attempts at killing people with impunity, but they actually have committed a couple of crimes here depending on state laws. One, they failed to report Dr. Snyder's death. Even if it was an accident or if he died of natural causes, they should have dialed 911 and reported that he died. Failure to do so IS a crime in some states. Especially when it's done in the attempt to cover up other crimes. They also moved a corpse from one location to another without the excuse that they were trying to preserve evidence or keep the body from being destroyed. Another crime depending on state laws. Some states even consider moving a body as desecration of a corpse, which is also a crime. Given that Xander, with Gwen's knowledge, dumped Snyder's body in a large body of water, desecration would be particularly applicable. They must have known what water does to corpses and chose the lake with that intention. Despite the cartoons, sofa jokes, and other wacky hijinks, I haven't found this entire thing all that funny. It's actually kind of gross. Yeah, Dr. Snyder is supposed to be the big, bad guy being mean to poor, poor Gwen, but dealing drugs and blackmailing someone isn't a reason his body should be disrespected like it has or that his family or anyone else who might care about him should not know he died and what happened to him. Nothing he did was any worse than anything Gwen and Xander have ever done. But them hiding his body and lying about it is fun! Quirky! Something for them to bond and get off on! Oh, no, it's supposed to be about protecting Jack somehow . . . 🙄

Huh. What is it exactly that Abigail ever did to Gwen that she has a reason to "get back at" her for it? I mean, is there something specific? Anything prior to Gwen's multiple attempts to kill her and destroy her life? Is it that Abigail dared to not like that Gwen tried to kill her? Permanently altered her brain? Lied to her husband about something she did? Slept with her husband? Tried to destroy her parents' marriage? Set her up to contribute to Gwen's planned humiliation of her mother? Manipulate her brother back from another continent so he could witness said humiliation? Kill her grandmother? Accuse her of pushing her down stairs and killing the baby that she miscarried before she ever showed up? Be an overall, remorseless, obsessive, sociopathic bitch? Nope, couldn't be any of that because those are all things that GWEN did to Abigail with no provocation whatsoever from the latter. Things that Abigail should "get back at" Gwen for, not vice versa. But, of course, when Abigail tries, she's somehow "smug," "crazy" and "obsessed", but Gwen? "Poor, poor, Gwen." The character of Gwen continues to be a senseless, directionless, mess that contributes nothing. She's worried, NOW that Jack might not like what she did to Abigail? Why now? What's different this time? As already noted, she's done a dozen other just as, if not, more heinous things to Abigail and Jack hasn't given a shit, so why does she care now? And she's still not addressing the crux of the issue. What the fuck is she even still so mad at Abigail for anyway? YOU are the one who fucked up in going after her to begin with Gwen. But you don't want to admit that. She just wants to continue to blame everyone else for her shortcomings. And she's gotten away with it all by and large, but she can't let it go. A selfish wench. Gotta make Abigail, for some mysterious reason, pay for her sad, sad, childhood. But Jack has shown he isn't going to do anything, no matter what she does to Abigail, so I guess it makes sense to her to keep trying. Except now. For reasons. Sounds like another pivot in the many attempts to salvage this mess of a character. Someone finally got a clue that her many, many sob stories weren't cutting it for why she repeatedly keeps getting a free pass for all the lies she tells. That she's still not endearing herself to the audience at-large despite their multiple and continued attempts. That it was Abigail, NOT the always-propped Gwen, that the audience is rooting for and is sympathetic towards when TPTB probably intended the opposite. So now Abigail's gone, and Gwen STILL isn't a hit. What now? Wacky hijinks with Xander and a dead body! Make Jack look even more stupid and clueless than he already has. If this latest lie somehow makes a difference, but they don't explain why all the other ones didn't or what makes this one different, she's still just as pointless as she ever was. And Jack still looks like her chump and fool.

Even though her existence depended on it, she should have resented her own parents if she thought it was (or still does) weird. Not Julie. Her parents were the ones who decided that there was nothing wrong with them getting together and having children despite their connections to Julie. Not that there was anything technically wrong. They were consenting adults. I personally find it sort of sketchy that a mother would date a man after that man was in a relationship with her daughter, but that's just me . . . I don't know if Hope ever questioned her parents about all the weirdness, but that's where her focus should have been. Not on Julie. I don't mind Julie like others do. I hope she keeps throwing truth bombs and shade at idiots like Jack and Gwen who she owes nothing and continues to defend and look out for her family when they are attacked.