DearEvette

This is first time I've been in this forum since they announced they were renewing It for S4 and how Tom was the star and people wanted to see Ichabod's story. That pissed me off as much as killing off Abby. So yeah I got a little bit of glee every week watching the show struggle to get even 2m viewers. And even more glee as it began to disapear as a recapped show on various sites. And now this. I have never been happy a show was cancelled before. Sad, bitter, disappointed or indifferent. But this is the first I've been happy. On a shady note, I follow both Nicole and Orlando on twitter. She's been MIA for months. But suddenly in the aftermath of this annoucement the two of them are echanging "you're awesome" "no, you're awesome." Tweets. LOL.

Are there really concerned and dissatisfied fans though? I mean outside of these boards? I don't frequent any other discussion boards that discuss or even really recap this show, but judging by twitter and the comments on the finale on tvline the consensus seems to be 1) hoping Dr. Charles isn't dead 2) surprised by April and Choi but most are ok with it and even some love it, already trying out shipper names 3) happy about Nat & Will finally getting together 4) happy Robin is ok 6) massive immediate hate for the new S. African Dr. and 5) not too thrilled by Noah and Reese. Overall it just seems people are discussing the show on these platforms, not dissing it. While the ratings are down from last season (not surprising with the move to the more competitive Thursday night) , they have improved over that last three episode, rising steadily. So they aren't hemorrhaging viewers like some shows that change *cough* Sleepy Hollow *cough*. I do agree the show has shifted in tone from last season. I wonder if they had a focus group or something? I also wonder if the move to Thursday this season and competing with TGIT made them change tone a bit -- figuring they wanted to siphon off some of the Shonda demographic. Personally I don't mind it. I like the medical cases, but the cases aren't what I connect to on the show, it is the continuing characters. They are the ones whose lives I like to discuss. If it was just medical cases all the time with very little personal development of the continuing characters, then it would just be a medical procedural show and those don't hold me. That said, I am not at all invested in Noah. I have come to the conclusion it is the actor I don't like. The show has the ability to rehabilitate a not-great character, they did it with Will who was rather annoying last season and I like him a lot better this season. If they were planning to really expand Noah's role on the show I wish they had actually showed his growth rather than 'Bam" people love him now. But then again, the actor doesn't draw me in either. I just can't take him seriously as a good doctor. I generally like all the rest of the characters. Yes, even Natalie, whose self righteousness it rather overbearing. But I don't mind her and Will since I figured they were end game all along and Jeff and Nina were just obstacles. I do hate that new S. African doctor. Holy god, I hope she doesn't come back. She has a bitch-face and is just rude. I get the feeling we are supposed to find her interesting. I'll bet some guy wrote her character. She sounds like what some out-of-touch Bro-dude writer would think we'd find interesting in a female character *cough* Sleepy Hollow *cough*

Oh man, I love that you called her that, because I was getting The Bad Seed vibes from her. I was sure she had stuffed that penny in her sister's throat. And I still give her the side eye for giving him the fire-sparker thing. Like really little girl?

This was exciting and tense and a good episode overall. But man, the plot holes they had to create to put Stephanie in Jeopardy and create an explosion lessened the shine a bit. I could understand her being immobilized when he had a sharp scalpel to her neck. But there were several times when he was far away from her with the scalpel on the floor, his back to her. She could have rushed him or grabbed that steel thingy he had and bashed him on the head with it. He was debilitated so he was not a full strenght. Sigh. I mean, Allison girl stepped on the gas to go down a ravine to escape him. They could have made Steph a little scrappier. But PLOT REASONS!! fire. I will admit the fire thing was great. But still. Other than that smallish fail, this was a great episode.

Oh, great season finale! I agree with everyone, I teared up a bit. Good job show. For once Dre's crying was appropriate! Charlie and Johann -- the bromance I did not know I needed. Of course they made sense to each other! Wait... I thought Charlie's mom was already dead. He was mad his parents didn't come to his fake funeral but then again he didn't go to theirs either. Oh wait, it is Charlie. Who knows what is the truth with him? Aww... Ruby calling Bow her daughter and asking for a blanket...I'm not crying, you're crying! Pops, telling it like it is! I always like it when all four kids are in their subplot together, they have great chemistry and by now the show knows how to use their personalities effectively. So yeah, good balance of humor, plot and a bit of drama.

Good timing, just posted today.. TV Line - TV Ratings Everything you wanted to know about Ratings but were afraid to ask

That was so ludicrously overly dramatic! I LOL'd like crazy. So... An impassioned plea gets Percy out of jail. "Judge, she is totes sorry! Can she come back to work now?" I mean, I love Percy and was bummed that she was MIA on so many shows... but this is just so .... bad. I want to know what poison that was that killed the Faux!Maxine Waters. Because one sip and she was dead immediately. No fever? stomach ache? coughing up blood? Also why did they make Faux!Maxine Waters so dumb? I mean Hamilton was all but twirling a mustache at her. Come on! And don't get me started on the Pride mess.... WTH happened to this show? I mean it was never going to be high art, but still.

The time travel stuff this season has gotten so laboriously murky that is makes that part of the storyline hard to follow. But man, I enjoyed this episode just because it was light. What a low bar! But Grant Gustin does comedy and delight so damn well. The suspicion about them stealing his kidney and looking at his hands after Wally said they were brothers were delivered with just the right comedic timing. Also it was a great showcase for Barry and Iris' chemistry to shine through. I struggled with them as a couple in S1 because I thought she sparked with Eddie so much better. But then came the Earth-2 episode in Season 2 where I really saw what was possible between Barry and Iris and I was finally hooked on WestAllen. I wanted that for E-1 Barry & Iris! Funny enough Bart Allen seemed a lot like E-2 Barry. I remember when some people were commenting about the chemistry between Barry and Kara during the musical episode. And I remember thinking to myself, it is easy to see chemistry when two people are smiling and sparkling at each other. This episode kinda speaks to that a bit, because it is harder to feel love when it is angsting and glooming and dooming over the couple all over the place. And I fell in love with Barry and Iris all over again. It was just so nice to see the look of happiness on her face as she looked at light-Barry. Candace really did sell that so well.

In my opinion, just repeating a lyrics doesn't necessarily make one a racist. But then again, I don't think 'racist' is an all or nothing thing. Like sexuality, I believe there is a Kensyian scale of racism. The fact a white person thinks it is fine to say the N-word casually with no supposed malice behind it may not make them a 100% racist but it does put them somewhere on the scale north of 0% racist. But really to me, the bottom line is if a person really believes themselves to not be a racist, then they should feel real discomfort doing things that they know darned well are easily and universally recognized as racist. If they feel no discomfort or unease at that, then that requires some self reflection. The thing that makes the DWP episode even more interesting is that they were in Addison's house (the guy who said the N-word). So he was effectively in his own private space (even though he had people over) and it appeared that he was actually a more than casual friend of Reggie's. So did he think his friendship with Reggie plus the fact that he was only singing a lyric make this not a racist? Was Reggie right in calling Addison out in his own home? And was Addison being unrealistically naive in asking 'why not?' I am not expecting answers or anything, but it is illustrative of how thoughtful the writing on the show is.

I would've loved a Joelle POV. And you're right it would have been interesting to see it as a contrast to CoCo's. Another dark skinned girl who has a crush on a guy who likes Sam. But Joelle doesn't seem as bothered by it for the same reasons as CoCo is. And I doubt if they'd use colorism as a theme to Joelle's POV since they'd already used that for CoCos and everybody seems to have a different theme to their chapters. But the absence of that as an overriding concern could've been a interesting counterpoint. One thing (out of the many things) I do love about this show is that is has been excellent at sowing that there is no such thing as "all black people." Between Sam, CoCo, Lionel, Troy, Reggie and yes even though we haven't gotten their POV.. Joelle, Kelsey and Al we are are getting to see that there is a difference of opinions, philosophies, life history, experiences, expectations, and perspectives among black people. And while black people have always known this, it has not been as prevalent in media depictions. And I also am glad they had a Gabe POV and wouldn't replace his with someone else's. I think it is important that the Gabes of the world (those of them who actually watched the show) see how the Gabes of the world can appear to black folk. Decent enough white guys who are liberal and may even think they are allies, but are still rather protected in their obliviousness. His last conversation with Sam in this chapter about it being such hard work to be with her could be read in some ways as a metaphor for the reality of allyship.

I think this is hard to know because as Dee pointed out, the guy's POVs don't go there. Troy's is all about his father. Reggie's is mostly about his wokeness and then the gun. And Lionel's is about finding his label & then his voice. The girls' POV center more on relationships. Between each other and with them and men. And Gabe's POV is all about Sam. But I also agree that the show is making a statement about colorism. What I love is that it is doing it in nuanced fashion. CoCo's concerns and suspicions are absolutely valid. There is no argument about that. But I also think there is a bit of a cautionary tale in CoCo's first POV chapter that says "Yes, it is real... but don't let it get you twisted." There are quite a few times when CoCo looks at Sam in frustration and sees Sam getting all the things CoCo wants -- acceptance by the BSU, approval by the sorority, and Troy --- and lets herself believe it is all due to Sam's light skin privilege. But that is a dangerous road to travel because it denies any other possibility of success that maybe Sam did something to get noticed rather than sat there as just a beneficiary of her privilege. In a sense it is like Gabe's chapter in that he can't help but be a white guy. He's with them in their meetings and is trying to understand their cause in a way he really never can, but it isn't his fault he's white. Just as it really isn't Sam's fault she's light. She can't help that. It does no one any good to blame her for it. It is a condition of society and while CoCo does try to strive, she still blames Sam for something Sam has no real control over. What is more, she somehow seems to blame Sam for not being aware of it, but it is difficult sometimes for people to recognize their own privilege until something happens to smack them in the face with it. To Sam's credit she seems to be trying with her activism rather that just skating on the privilege. See, this is a case where I do think there is some shady subtext. Notice the Big Sister Fabulousness or whatever her name was, was always wearing pink and green. Now, no way could they get away with name checking the real sorority but I think there was a pointed message there. And though these women never explicitly use her appearance as a way to 'other' CoCo they instead use her background. One thing that very rarely gets talked about is that there is a class caste system intra-racially, not just a color one. My feeling with that whole interlude is that someone -- Simien or the writer or whomever -- are not too impressed with the Greek system and used this as a chance to get a poke in.

At this point, we still don't know why Troy and Sam get together. We never even see the beginning of their relationship. In CoCo's first POV chapter, we go from one scene of Sam calling Troy 'Clarence Thomas' to the scene where CoCo sees Troy sitting with Sam and putting his hand on her leg. In the present day when she asks him about what he saw in Sam he flippantly says "Her fat ass." So we honestly don't know. In Troy's POV chapter he originally wanted to go to a performing arts school, but his father shot that down. So it might be something as simple as they got to talking about film and discovered they liked something about each other. And it could be that since everything in Troy's life is so curated by his father and what his father wants him to be Sam liking him for something he is interested in might be a bigger pull than what attracted him to CoCo in the first place. Frankly, I think he likes girls his father might disapprove of. CoCo is definitely the type of girl his father would approve of. So it might not be a case of colorism. We really don't know at this point. And don't forget all of this is coming from CoCo's POV. My take is that the POV chapters aren't necessarily supposed to be gospel truth, but only true as the people whose perspective we are getting sees them. It is clear that CoCo sees everything through the lens of color. You can't blame her given that it is something that really formed her and I am glad that her POV chapter doesn't seem to judge her at all. But you could see that she was ascribing Sam's social success just to Sam being lighter skinned. But that completely dismisses the fact that Sam was also rejected by everyone just as much as CoCo was (they were both outcasts) until Sam spoke up in the BCU meeting. That is what brought her to people's attention. Even when CoCo overheard the sorority sisters talking and they were saying they wish they had gotten Sam, it wasn't because of Sam's look it was because "she is going places" by that time Sam had become part of the BCU leadership. So while I can't disagree that Sam does benefit from light-skinned privilege that does only take you so far, and it is not quite accurate to buy into everything CoCo believes because a lot of what she is seeing is being filtered through her negative experience with colorism.

I thought for sure when they panned up in that last shot showing the destruction of the store we'd see Brett clinging to a flag pole or stuck up in a tree or something.

I honestly rolled my eyes at the reveal that Tommy was The Mockingbird. I already had to suspend disbelief that Sophie would sleep with him but now he is some criminal mastermind too? I can buy TR Knight as Alice's fuck up little brother, yeah. But as someone who can pull one over on Margo? No. He's just not good of an actor. Pulls me right out of the show.

I agree about April and Jeff and I am very annoyed that Jeff is going but Noah is staying. I also wonder why the hell Maggie can't get a personal storyline? Season one it annoyed me no end that she seemed to exist to be Natalie's cheerleader/soundingboard/support system. I hope they redress this next season.

Forgot to mention.... the final scene of Defamation where "Olivia" and "Fitz" are in the cell, their crazy make out session was insane! I would have loved it if we'd gotten some extended scenes of Defamation somewhere, maybe in the end credits...

I wonder if the wig/weave was a psychological crutch? Part of CoCo's journey is assimilation. Remember, she didn't want to be put in the Armstrong-Parker dorm when she enrolled. She wanted to be in a predominantly white dorm. Also remember after she burned her bridges with the black sorority, she adopted a white girl posse. So even though her own hair has length and she could use a chemical straightener, maybe the long, flowing weave makes her feel more like part of the group she adopted.

Noah had been portrayed last season as a Doctor that really struggles and tries to take the easier path. Even earlier this season he was written as someone who tries to get over rather being really competent. i think they've tried to redress that later in the season, but it comes a little too late because the damage is already done with how they characterized him last season. The April dislike just makes me scratch my head, but I guess I am a minority on this. I like her just fine. She has been portrayed as a competent nurse even would have been a smarter doctor than Noah if her family hadn't had deeply conservative views and steered her away from medicine and toward nursing. I thought her objection to what was happening with the ALS patient was because she said issuing him the heparin amounted to assisted suicide. It was an emotional opinion, which didn't, imo, make her awful, just made her have an opposing viewpoint. If she made a habit of it, like say Natalie, then I'd just roll my eyes. But she doesn't normally. I am also a minority opinion when it comes to the love for Nina. I am indifferent to her. She just doesn't make a huge impression on me at all except when she decided to get all mean girl on Natalie. Which was a shitty thing to do, really.

The thing is, the idea behind Minnick -- an outsider coming in and assessing the program to see why some residents don't do so well -- was a great one, imo. It also had some real possibilities for complicating existing relationships. It was promising for ambitious residents like Ben and Stephanie to see that there are possibilities that they hadn't been shown before and for long timers like Webber to be shown that while he is a good doctor, teaching methods can evolve. We could have seen him struggle over feeling obsolete instead of creating some inane "war". Actually it would have been nice to see all the doctors do some self examination and struggle during this period. The problem is they bungled it: First by making Minnick this all powerful creature who had such broad based authority not just over the residents but over the attendings and the department heads as well. It made her omnipotent. Since she was coming in as an antagonist anyway, she was already going to be unsympathetic. Making her all powerful just makes for a boring antagonist. Second, by making her an terrible teacher. At least if you are going foist this "fabulous" method and this terrible person on us, then at least show us that there is some steak under that sizzle. Third, by having all the doctors succumb to her greatness even though she never really earned any of their regard or trust. This is disappointing from basic storytelling standpoint. Fourth, by telegraphing from the second episode she was in that she was a love interest for Arizona. They hadn't shared more than one scene together and they had her hitting on Arizona. Again, this feels like an unearned reward for a marginal character. And finally, by casting an actress who is unable to give the character any depth or manufacture any empathy from the audience. Even if the character on paper isn't great, a good actor can make even a flat character somewhat interesting. This actress makes Eliza about as a deep as a teaspoon. I can't help but think of Alex in the first season of the show. Alex was a dick. Very unlikable, but Justin Chambers managed to give Alex just a little bit of humanity under that hard veneer, and this was even before we learned anything about Alex's background. This actress just has dead eyes.

I don't ever remember seeing him in anything til Black Sails. And in looking at his IMDB page afterward is when I discovered he was the guy from the Bond movie. I 100% remembered who the character of Gustav Graves was (his name in the Bond film) because he smirked all the way through the movie. But I would have never guessed it was the same guy. Now I am totally gonna find other stuff he is in.

Sigh. I am so sad this is over. I tried to stretch it out as much as I could. But the momentum as the season went on was just too irresistible. What a great first season finale. I loved the spilt screen stuff in the beginning. And the fact that this was nobody's POV but all of them. It felt like it was going to get chaotic and it did. For me, it felt that everybody brought their A-Game and I finally enjoyed, unreservedly Troy. Finally some follow up on Thane's fatal attempt at flying and the fact that it is a anti-binge drinking protest that usurped Sam's protest is somehow so typical. Al's comment about that "motherfucker loved binge drinking" was so perfect. Man. I love how the show deployed the minor, non POV characeters, Al, Joelle, Kelsey (and Sorbet!) and Rashid -- heck even Gabe's two best friends whose hipster-ish ways got poked a a little bit, but they were not caricatures and come off as pretty decent people. Also I think Kurt, the editor of Pastiche might actually have a bit of a crush on Sam. I wasn't too surprised the rally didn't get too crazy. These are Ivy league students after all. For all that these are black students and Reggie did have the gun pulled on him, they are still in a bit of a bubble. And even thought the white students may feel a upset about the fall out from the Black face party and even the Dear White People radio show, it doesn't really affect them in the end. So the stakes just aren't there. Yay! Reggie realizes that Sam is not for him. I am hopeful that he finally sees Joelle and that Sam and Gabe can work it out. I am sympathetic to him, Sam is a lot of work but just like Lionel asked the Administration "how much is she worth to you?" And Finally, it ends with one last look at the camera from both Sam and CoCo. For me these two are definitely the heart and soul of this series. Well done. I hope this gets renewed.

I have never seen Logan Browning in anything before except a brief guest spot on Survivor's Remorse where she played a model who Missy (Teyonah Parris) fired from a commercial spot because she wanted a dark skinned model instead of a light skinned one. Interestingly Teyonah Parris played CoCo in the film version of Dear White People and that episode of Suvivor's Remorse dealt with colorism which is a continuing undertone in the relationship between CoCo and Sam in the Netflix version of DWP. I liked LB in her brief spot SR so I had no preconceptions with her portrayal of Sam. But I think she does a great job as Sam. Probably because she reminds me so strongly of one of my best friends from college (who is still one of my ride-or-die besties). My friend is a very, very lightskinned black woman. I mean, red hair, freckles.. could pass for white she was so light. But her attitude was the blackity, black, black, blackest attitude ever. It felt like she was really trying to overcompensate in some ways because she was so pale. I get some of that coming through in the actress' performance of Sam. Antoinette Robertson who plays Coco in the tv version is fabulous in it. CoCo in this is just an all around great character. Someone on the DWP boards said the movie was a collection of great ideas that didn't really come together. I agree with this assessment and would go further to say the TV show takes all those ideas and actually gives them depth and cohesiveness that the movie couldn't. Also the movie was overwhelmingly from Sam's POV, the tv show feels more of an ensemble. Sam is a main character but four other characters get POV episodes so everything isn't filtered just through Sam.

I just binged Black Sails and although the actor who plays Long John Silver is incredibly pretty. Something about Toby Stephen's Captain Flint just does it for me. I couldn't believe the guy who played the smarmy Bond villain in Die Another Day is the same guy as my craggy Captain Flint! He aged up real nice.

My husband is watching these because I have been nagging him to. He sat and binged them all in one sitting. I happened to catch this one again with him and actually sat through the end credits. Saw that Barry Jenkins of Moonlight fame directed this episode. No wonder this one was so good!

CoCo remains a boss. I love her mightily. The scene after Troy broke up with her and she stood outside his door, took a deep breath, squared her shoulders, removed her devastated face, and put on smile was everything to me. Such a CoCo move. I liked her natural hair and I loved Sam's reaction to it: "Do you need money?" Ha. Immediately assuming Coco couldn't afford a new weave. I also liked Troy's reaction to it. Sometimes he really surprises me and his reaction to her hair, like his reaction to Lionel being gay, is just one of those times. I do think Troy is complex, but I don't think the actor gives him all the shades he needs to really convey it. Couple of other things I found fascinating in this installment - Coco was always looking for a man to stand behind rather than shooting for her own glory. It took Troy breaking up with her to finally realize her real potential even though she has always been the smartest one in the room. - Coco was casting her net for a white boy originally, but they weren't interested in a real relationship with her only a down low relationship. So her her outing of Sam & Gabe's relationship Chapter I now takes on some resonance. - How much savvy she is navigating among the important people. She really gets it. And she is also very much the yin to Sam's yang. Sam is in your face, dynamic protest for a collective while Coco is trying to navigate the system from the inside mainly for herself. - Nia Long's professor is just an older version of Coco. No wonder Troy is attracted to both of them.