SusanSunflower

I haven't seen season 3 but if killing off Kate reempted watching Caroline break her heart ...I'm good. The pairing was heading in such a predictably witchy direction -- one I had seen before where the affluent accustomed to getting her own way lesbian makes a miserable doormat out of the noble and kindhearted less-wealthy member of the pair ... Yes, British TeeVee seems to have a terrible time dealing with homosexuals without bringing out the "Who's the husband?" stereotypes. Now, if I can just get over despising Caroline (oh, and her mother) and her ex(?)-husband -- maybe not.

I was very struck by how much the older generation appeared to really love India and to be committed to it ... while the younger generation seemed much less certain ... as if it had become something dangerous and unattractive. It startled me because in so much -- at least American -- fare, the young are depicted as the brave, even fearless or reckless trailblazers. I would much prefer to spend time with Barbie and Mrs. Manners, hearing their tales of India ... I wonder if that's just my impression or if there was a sea change as the end of the Raj loomed on the horizon.

Goode was so stunningly handsome in Death Comes to Pemberly, I think I expected a second Pamuk. I've grow so tired of women (and men) on TeeVee with no discernible sex drive or sense of humor or playfulness for that matter ... not confined to DA or to TeeVee or movies ... even Mary's scandalous sexy week had so little naughtiness. Talbott at Rhett perhaps?

The whole Mary and/or Gillingham and/or Blake triangle played out so awkwardly it feels as if there were no author in control -- which I why I've wondered despite no evidence if the actor playing Blake decided to pursue other options. The Mary/Blake/Gillingham triangle was predictable and pleasant -- three attractive young people, two men vying for Mary's affection or at least hand in marriage (for whatever reason -- and evil or ulterior motives seemed likely in the absence of much chemistry or affection between any of them). Being evil myself, I rather hoped that Blake and Gillingham were cooking up Mary's comeuppance for being such an entitled prig of a woman, some princess and the pea unable to chose between two oh-so-eligible and handsome suitors -- perhaps to end up a spinster with equestrian inclinations. The whole contest felt as if some strange outside poll of the audience as to which suitor the audience liked best was being allowed to control the plot, when the plot was controlling which suitor the audience believed was on the ascendent. Like some rigged horserace, in which Blake "fell back" to give the impression that Tony was the winner ... only to have Tony disqualified and Blake mysteriously leave the field altogether. It will be interesting to see how much effort and creativity Fellowes is willing to put into Talbott's character and that pairing. Will he rouse himself to give Mary a proper send-off or settle for some recycling or conventional and tired girl meets boy, girl loses boy, etc. There was a flicker of chemistry between them, maybe, I think, but no fireworks or even natural affinity, except for dangerous fast cars. Will George's need for a father decide Mary's fate? Ugh, I'm glad it's all going to be resolved in a dozen hours or less. eta: Mentioned George because I so often discover I've forgotten that Mary has a child, a son, named George ... as if Fellowes has forgotten him also except for obligatory at-home cast-with-children scenes. Even Scarlett O'Hara demonstrated more material commitment in competing with Rhett for Bonnie's affections ...

I think Matthew working for Mr. Swires came up in discussions of how they met on their first visit to Downton during the war ... and Lavinia rescuing her father from Carlyle and where/how they were planning on living after they were married, I think, in London with Mr. Swires, widower -- but I may have filled in those gaps myself. Reggie Swire being quite so Hella Rich so quickly after being saved from ruin by his plucky, brave and resourceful daughter was face-palm indeed. I've thought I 'should' review all that, but then I realized I really don't care nearly enough. It may just have been that Matthew wanted to "win" the woman who had dumped him (when his services as a legal sperm donor might not be required, thank you very much, because another heir/bun was in Cora's oven), but Fellowes' high regard for Mary has always skewed things....

Yes, I thought Matthew's reluctance wrt Mr. Squire's fortune was the belief if Mr. Squires knew what Lavinia knew on her death bed, he almost certainly would not have left his fortune to Matthew -- simple false pretenses -- better to give it to a foundling hospital. Saying that Matthew made Lavinia happy and she loved him just really is not enough to forgive the fact that he loved Mary more ... quite possibly -- truth be told -- because of class differences. I liked Lavinia better than Mary and I thought she would have made him a better wife and their life together would have been genuinely happy with Matthew married to the understanding daughter of the lawyer he worked for... very middle class... in the footsteps of his own father (except being a lawyer I believe was considered more respectable, physicians still stigmatized for dealing with the unmentionable and other people's secrets.) Ugh, doormat Matthew actually sought out and married a woman who looked down on him when convenient.

Just wanted to add how impressed I was with Charles Dance's performance. He could have just been heroic beefcake ... with those long legs and detached air, blue eyes, and great physique... but throughout he really managed to convey the sensitivity public school nutured, university graduate for whom army work was not terribly difficult or interesting ... and anyway the war will be over soon enough and he would be getting on with his "real life" being a professor/historian. His character's quickness and worldliness really belied the stubborn refusal to see demonstrated by so many. Of course, Sarah was also quick and observant...

My only suggestion wrt this show is that I think it would have been better to do 90 minute (or even 2 hour) segments ... I'm finding the 1 hour segments over before I've fully acclimatized to the characters, the dark lighting, etc. and being allowed "bigger bites" of the story I think would allow more audience buy-in. Anyone know if Cromwell's hat (a beret variation) has significance as to circumstance of birth, rank, etc. I've seen no other character wearing something similar.

Had Merrick been invited to join Sarah and Kasim? I thought Merrick interrupted Kasim and Sarah's ride to prevent them being alone, particularly given their chilly reception. I assumed seeing the hawk was his feeble excuse for barging in on their ride. His guard-dog bossiness around of Sarah (and Perron, I suspect) really was over-the-top, even for the times, particularly given their relative "station." Kasim pointedly chose not to "race" him (or rather accept his "order" to race him) which he must have realized just about when/where he fell -- another humiliation. The horse did fall and he did fall, so again yet another humliiation (for a man who felt slighted so easily) ... the "invisible" threat thereby excused his fall and made him again the "victim" of Pandit Baba's machinations. I guess I wondered about Pandit Baba's hand in all these events since Merrick had managed to stay alive so long. He was obviously despised and feared by many besides those related to the Gardens Rape case. I felt frustrated by so many reports of his promotions and the glowing praise he received (repeatedly) for a job well done. How many of his accomplishments were based on unfounded charges, confessions obtained via beatings and/or his classifying his "chosen victims" as political enemies. For Hari alone in the world, just knowing his daughter survived, I think would have been a gift ... although based on his own experience, he might have been less convinced than Lady Manners that she was guaranteed a "better life." -- I wondered belatedly, as so many were returning to England, if Hari -- with the help of friends -- might have been able to return to England or immigrate to some place else to start again. The new university/school seemed to offer some hope, although I'm not sure what qualification Kumar had to teach beyond tutoring ... and/or how his "past crimes" and imprisonment would be viewed in the new India.

Thanks for the details. I found Hari Kumar's isolation -- his school best-friend who simply didn't see him, Perron's half-hearted single attempt. Lady Manner's genuine efforts on his behalf did not include letting him know that he had a daughter. I'm not even sure he knew of her efforts and those of others -- from his point of view, he was utterly alone, utterly abandoned -- unaware of the people who in fact kept him in their thoughts while they worried that making contact would cause him pain (or perhaps that was merely their excuse to not get involved, sully their own reputation, confront the injustice, and worried that trying to get "justice" would just stir things up. So the file was burned in the end. Actually, my thought was Sarah and Perron and all of those who knew how fundamentally evil Merrick was -- from terrorizing the very young gay aide, to gaining access to Susan's files (for his own aims), to deliberately "chosing" the Laytons as his stepping stone to greater respectability, to beating and terrorizing "suspects" etc. etc. -- ultimately enabled him by discretely keeping his secrets, even amongst themselves, strictly need-to-know even AFTER he was dead. for "national security" reasons or this, that or the other of the it's always something/it's never a good time to reveal this. I found myself wondering if Merrick's claim of Pandit Baba's hand in so many incidents in fact was reputation burnishing. His reputation was made in the Bandighar Gardens case, which he claims was long ago, and yet, he is the "victim" of ongoing attacks resulting therefrom -- even invisible men who scare his horse, sending him tumbling. Reminds me of O.J.'s dream team, each member of which by rights might be ashamed at their theatrics, creation of "jury nullification", and other tactics, but who in reality appear proud-enough at getting him acquitted, proof of their "skill" .. Merrick doesn't care that Hari Kumar and others rot in prison ... their convictions are self-evident proof of their guilt (even if the process was corrupt).

It was strange to contrast the open-hearted, outspoken principles of Daphne Manners who really did love Hari Kumar with Sarah Layton increasingly tensely pursed lipped stoicism ... I suppose eventually she ended up in Oxford with Perrone, unless something/someone else came along. There was also the parallel between Sarah's silent acceptance of her mother and her own role as what I guess we'd call today a "co-dependent enabler" and then Sarah and Perrone's passive acceptance of Merrick, while hating him. Initially I was (briefly and erronerously) relieved to think that Merrick was a "plant" to spy on Merrick to strengthen the case for his prosecution. To allow Susan to marry the man because it was a lots cause to try to stop him, apparently. If Sarah and Kassim were in a "relationship" she chose the very handsome son of a very powerful man who described that son, iirc, as rather empty-headed and slow to mature -- in pursuit of beautiful women and booze -- although he had evidently matured considerably by the time of his death. I was sorry not to see more of his father or an epilogue as to the fall-out of his death. I looked in Wiki to see if these characters / incidents were "based on a real people/true story" and didn't find such references, though I do not doubt they were based on incidents and types. Yes, the horror at realiizing the cow was in fact tethered to the tracks made horrifyingly clear this was an ambush. And in the end Perrone and Sarah came together as survivors and witnesses to horrors, each I guess admiring the powerful self-control and sense of duty in the other. The older generation -- Sister Ludmilla, manager of the mission, Barbie, Lady Manners, Auntie Mabel -- all seemed to recognize and mourn the betrayal of India, while the next generation seemed to have developed a hard-shell, to note Arthur Layton's disgust with the "other Staying On couple" in the railroad compartment. Their refusal to recognize that things had changed, were changing and the India was on the verge of an independence that made treating Indians as second-class citizens obstinately fool-hardly, rude, stupid, etc.

Finished this afternoon ... so very well done -- but somehow I was left emotionally unsatisfied. As long as Barbie was around I was thinking, "Wow, this is giving Forsyte Saga a run for its money." (Saw JITC years ago, read the books and managed to get the plot tangled up with Passage to India, sheesh, which I tried to watch about 5 years ago and found excruciatingly "suspenseful" and had to bail. Barbie cared about things and people -- everyone else not so much. What became of Kumar's daughter and the fine lady of the hats and speeding car? I feel like I missed an episode in which Barbie died, we found out about the fate of Daphne and Kumar's daughter. Did Kumar ever know of his daughter? Is this in the book? What of Kumar's friend? There are so many themes ... all of the lies -- so many kinds, so many quickly discovered by the recipient -- and all of the liars. Yes, the mother is the "worst person in the world" -- a careless and cruel liar whose lies are often so transparently absurd as to sting doubly... she doesn't care, doesn't care, doesn't care. I feared Susan Layton was following in her mother's footsteps but then she became this oddly mentally ill boxed in creature -- saying "the right things" in between fits of hysteria and sobbing. I wanted to know more about her marriage to Merrick. In the end, I found Sarah's opaqueness frustrating rather than curious ... what did she think of having that abortion? Where did that man *(character James Clark, played by Stuart Wilson) go? What became of the majarani who held the party where they met? Those were cross-dressers at that party, weren't they? The whole matter of sexual identities deftly handled but was that an "out in India thing" or more a British thing? Was the young woman getting swimming lessons in that same villa, that same young girl who called the maharani "auntie"? Rosemary Leech has the perfect face and manner for so many periods, doesn't she? She always adds such a sense of "authenticity" I found myself wondering if Paul Scott intended to write more books with these characters? Apparently the racist couple on the train are the main characters in "Staying One" which I may read next.

Got a notice this is available on netflix streaming !!

If you're in the U.S. you can watch it on line here http://video.pbs.org I have to re-watch to see Mathieu Amalric whom I never caught a glimpse of. I find Rylance as Cromwell fascinating, very attractive but not sexy in a stop-you-in-your-tracks way (at least not yet, we've only just been introduced).

I think that Cromwell is being given the foundation as a character whose powers arise from being very thoughtful, observant and intelligent man, respected by Woolsey and others, even by those who don't like him -- in contrast to -- your bodice-ripping sword-wielding Douglas Fairbanks or Errol Flynn, man of action ... or at least that was my interpretation of this introductory episode, to dispel any notion that daring-do was in the wings.

Unsullied, I was captivated, if not entirely bewitched. Mostly by Jonathan Pryce and Rylance and the unexpected -- his father, the near-silent deaths of his wife and daughters as well as the lack of obvious appeal of the infamous other sister, Anne Boleyn, who seemed oddly modern, lighter, quicker. Happy to see Thomas Brodie-Sangster, so tall and grown up, happy always to see Damian Lewis succeed in a new role. I assume more will happen next episode. I wasn't bored. It was too gorgeously filmed for that and the interiors managed to be credible livable spaces without being over-done. I was only distracted by the odd male costumes that seemed to make ordinary men of importance twice the size of less important men (and women) in their midsts.

Fellowes has my genuine sympathy in trying to figure out where he wants to leave his devoted audience. I had thought 9 or 10 hours quite a lot of time to fill without adding new characters and plots and was imagining mini-subplots and visitors to liven up what might otherwise feel like a succession of denouements (since so many characters seem poised to be happily-ever-after'd). ZoloftBob had suggested a GINORMOUS PLOT DEVELOPMENT, like killing off Mary, and I and other has discussed a BIG TIME JUMP ... and realized that the little news from currently filming suggested everyone in their places, probably ruling out starting the season with someone missing or a decade later. The idea that followed was that the decision to wrap had been made AFTER Fellowes had written the first four ... meaning Fellowes would be frantically trying to set course and arrive at dock in half as many episodes -- Yikes. Either way it's a significant writing challenge. ... but first he has to decide where (and how and chronologically when) he wants us all -- characters and audience -- to end up. He can do one more time jump between the last regular episode and the Christmas Special, but IMHO if he wants to do that he's going to want to set it up well. As it is, we don't have enormous investment in the children and the adults -- now quite grown up -- have thinned in number and possible futures. The family assembled for Violet's funeral might work ... and she could well have been LAST seen happy and healthy. Such a solemn occasion could provide for what would otherwise be excessive exposition ... people talking about their past and their hoped-for-future all very end-of-an-era and start of another, but nothing so changed the show could not pick up where it was left off should anyone decide to revive it in a year or 5.

The fact that they're filming with the old-gang's-all-here suggests nothing too radical. Here's hoping Fellowes didn't already have at least 4 scripts written when the decision was made (but I'm inclined to bet he did and -- being himself -- they must not be revised, because .... ) which -- oh noes -- he will have to figure his course, set sail and arrive at his destination in 5 (or is it 6?) episodes... daunting task that! If Mary can go away for sexy week maybe she could pull an Agatha Christie and simply conveniently disappear ... but who'd care, I mean really. Talbott can play Lord Peter Whimsy, detective, and track her down, ruling out kidnapping in the process. Actually a kiddy kidnapping with happy reunion isn't a bad idea, if I do say so myself. Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Drewe? I wonder if we'll ever see them again. Are the cottages being built on land still owned by the estate? to be sold or rented to tenants? Is this for "improvements" (as has been mentioned) or for (paltry) income to the estate) or both? I should give up wondering, but we've had no updates on how rescued Downton's is being managing to not hemorrhage money (like before, like their neighbors, etc).

Oh, I suspect this last season is going to be a veritable cavalcade of weddings, after all they have 9 episodes to fill (or is it 10?). Having an end-point is likely to terrify the lugubrious Mr. Fellowes. He will either introduce a flurry of new characters business -- besides Talbott and the estate manager -- to fill the space around the stalwarts as he plods towards the end or he's likely to rely on those "twists and turns" of false resolutions that he has tended towards in the past. Anna (or Bates) will be re-arrested for Greene's murder, Tom will return (surprise!!), either Patmore or Carson/Hughes' real estate venture will run into trouble, Thomas will discover something he can hold over someone, Daisy will almost decide about the farm, Moseley will humiliate himself (again, to be forgiven and married off to Baxter) and there will be a new cute footman, etc. I'm still hoping for a surprise -- Gregson's return, Strallen's return or even Carlysle's return to complicate Mary/Talbott. I'm not sure there's time for anyone to die, but some carefully guarded casting secret may necessitate "clever" plot development, to be announced/leaked later this year.

Did you see "Death Comes to Pemberley? oh my ... Goode made quite a "robust" Wickham ... sort of blew Darcy out of the water ... imho. (fwiw, Gilligham's flaws were not due to the actor ... he was drawn that way).

Yes, imho, the paucity of "likable" characters in the current cast is a genuine problem. I was more struck by how robust Strallen, Carlyle and Gregson look in contrast to the current cast ... and how much Tom Branson now looks like Robert's mini-me. Matthew Goode is very attractive, but as-seen-so-far is not bringing a lot of hot-new-blood that Blake suggested early on might be part of his package (heh!).

Someday Dan Stevens will answer if there was anything that could have induced him to stay at Downton ... but that probably won't be for another decade or more... I had noticed on several occasions in scenes with Mary, while delivering excruciatingly awkward dialog, Stevens had a glint in his eye as if this were perhaps the 5th take, the previous 4 having ended in giggles. My fantasy was that Fellowes was far from amused by Stevens lack of respect for his genius, and that they might well have quarreled over dialog and Stevens was already being punished by being written as duller and duller, more emasculated and dreary with every episode. Fellowes assumed Stevens would never leave Downton. Stevens quite deliberately (perhaps with relish, even malice) proved him wrong. But again, that's my fanfic. eta: As to where Matthew might have gone -- if he had not died -- I don't know. I was so disappointed in that last season. I really wanted some fireworks between Matthew and Robert about running the estate and to learn more about how that worked -- how do you hold onto a money-pit like Downton? I still don't know. I also expected and wanted more Matthew/Mary conflict ... and (I think I've said this before) more Cora/Matthew bonding over joining this family. When NONE of this transpired in any dramatic fashion ... sure Matthew and Tom, why not? or how about a couple of farmer's daughters and some little brats ... since all we've really had in the way of upstairs messing with their underlings was the major and Edna -- Robert being too noble to do the deed. I miss do-gooder Isobel still and fully expected her to side with her son if need be .. Yes, I'm duil., pedestrian even. I would have welcomed Thomas falling for a farmer who fell for him ... or even a visiting valet... since I'm certain there were "underground" networks by which men met and drank and played darts and cards and .... I was dreading another season of Robert and Mary effectively shutting Matthew down... Matthew, the bright one, the lawyer, remember?

Yes, did Daisy Lewis "decide" to leave or did Fellowes always intend for her character to go off in a taxi cab? or did he write Sarah Bunting in such a way that the audience hated her. Was she supposed to be Tom's new wife -- with whom he and Sybbie were supposed to sail off to America? Did Fellowes -- gasp -- change course or not.? Even if everyone in the current cast agreed to stay put for 3 more seasons (let's just pretend) the foundations for the ending of some of these story lines should have begun to be laid -- rather than spending last season (6) with Violet and Isobel's and Mary's all-for-naught romances and Edith's "right back where she started" baby saga. -- I.e. all out of left field (like Matthew's and Sybil's death), no looking ahead/laying foundation as if the show would /could run forever. Three more seasons -- even at a galloping 5 years per season -- takes us only to the eve of WWII and 3 more seasons would not be "good teevee" if all we did was watch loose ends being tied up -- Mary with her new suitor, Isobel marry Clarkson, have Violet get older or die, and watch the children grow up, have Daisy finally decide about the farm, see Molesley and Baxter do whatever, Thomas whatever, Hughes and ... etc. IOW, tying up the current loose ends would not suffice to fill 3 more seasons interestingly. Blaming Stevens' "abrupt departure" is not supported by subsequent writing, character and story development.

Agree -- The utter awfulness of Matthew's death was the excruciating cheesy contrivance of it... and the gore, which felt very out of place on Downton Abbey where "shocking" is a grim faced policeman ringing the doorbell -- Not here for one of the Bateses? Matthew's dead? My lord! Let me get Lord Granthem. Mrs. Patmore, put on a kettle! Better ready the drawing room.

Bribes may well have worked in the past. Violet last season (4) was looking very sedentary, heavy and old.... this season (5), she's dropped 30 pounds and is vivacious and has a suitor !!! Coincidence that "overnight" Violet has a new lease on life? Obvious character development for Violet's old flame to reappear in half-credibly way? I.think.not. Isobel's whole revolving suitors plot is now tedious but also seemed "poised" to explain her either being away for other projects or going away with her new husband, not Clarkson who lives next door, to a new life! Was Penelope induced to re-up??? Yes, awaiting the tell-all.