SusanSunflower

cough -- and we all know what he really thinks about Americans ... as if it were concealed under a veneer of charm and politeness .... Gosford Park was blessed with Robert Altman, a great cast, a great location, and a great cameraman ... but -- for a murder story -- there's remarkably little mystery or suspense ... just some stereotypic (send-up) snobbishness wrt to the stupidity of the police and the narcissism of the gentry (who really didn't give a damn about the murdered man, much less whodunnit) ... It would have been a very different movie without Maggie Smith's (whose central financial crisis was more surprising and suspenseful than the murder) and the stunning turn by Jeremy Northam crooning the brilliant work of Ivor Novello ... I attribute much of the sly humor to Bob Balaban (co-writer credit); no matter how jolly Fellowes may be in real life, Downton Abby is truly extraordinary in its lack of levity -- not matter how shocking Violet's zingers may be. eta: As I said before, I think he started fairly ambitious and then -- between PBS and the critics and likely the demands of the job -- quickly set his sights lower ... L'affair Pamuk made promises and "took risks" we never ever really saw again ... That lusty and adventuresome Mary vanished ... see also "firebrand" Tom ...

I think Fellowes took the "serious critics" like a dagger -- and decided to write for the audience that loved him, quite possibly with a passive aggressive undercurrent. He loved success, but he had assumed he was more talented, better, smarter and more subtle (and more historically accurate) than they found him. Titanic was not better received. His Boston project languished. I suspect that his vast success, once achieved, was humbling ... his pretensions publicly squashed. http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-16609589

wrt Strallan's fertility -- IRL, this question would have come up ... and I kept expecting it to ... because it would matter to Edith (and could be an insurmountable obstacle and reason for Strallen's sense of inadequacy ...) I am not saying it would have necessarily been a compelling or determinative plot line ... See also, Strallen could have broken the engagement with Edith in private the night before the service, for instance, or even dragged her out of the church to "jilt" her in the churchyard ... not the same "shocker" of humiliation for Edith but much more in keeping with the character ... similarly, and IMHO, more "dramatic" would have been for Edith to have called the whole thing off .... unfortunately Fellowes goes for ridiculously garish (and unlikely) "twists" ...

and it would have been so simple for Anthony Strallan to admit to Edith that he was the "responsible party" in his first marriage being childless ... and Edith deciding that she wanted children too much to enter into marriage knowing that children would not be forthcoming ... or Strallan could have had a heart attack and died ... (in the church, standing at the altar) ... Fellowes is such a hack. It's as if the "story" takes on a life of its own and he is powerless to change its course except by drastic groan-worthy "twists" ... without even a knowing smirk or sense of parody (see Matthew's paralysis miracle).

I think that given Edith's history of only one "unrequited love" -- i.e. the tragically dead Patrick, betrothed of her sister -- she probably "loved" Strallan as much as she was capable of loving anyone ... certainly she was grateful that he found her amusing, enjoyed her company, and, in fact, having courted her, he was too much of a gentleman to not want to marry her. It would have been ungentlemanly to not propose, and -- god knows -- there are plenty of marriages of convenience or even plenty of "starter" marriages because-all-my-friends-are-getting-married marriages to this day ... IMHO, the unforgivable "bad writing" was Strallan would never have inflicted such public humiliation on Edith ... ever ... he'd have killed himself first ... and might well have, if he truly believed the marriage was in fact unseemly ... too much of a dutiful "good soldier" to run away like a coward.

Actually It's worse ... it wasn't Cora and Robert who objected initially ... it was Violet who insisted Robert tell Strallen to break off with Edith (which he did) ... which made Edith miserably unhappy ... and so then Robert -- faced with a heart-broken daughter -- backed-down, allowed them to see each other and -- inevitably -- they became engaged ... it was Violet's angry and disgusted look toward Strallen, in the church as he was about to walk down to apse that made him turn tail and run ... because her very public pursed-lipped disapproval suggested a future of unending slights and asides and chilliness ... Strallan lost "everything" .... both his bride but also his nearest neighbors as long-term friends ... yes, it was bad bad writing to gin up some "drama" and keep Edith at Downton ... although -- as I've said -- I was hoping for Antony and Edith getting on with their "new life" next door breathing some "fresh air" into the story ... nothing necessarily major, a baby maybe .... some Edith dealiing with Strallen's servants??, some Strallen/Crawley rivalry/dispute wrt "new methods" or water right .. I don't know ... something

They humiliated Strallan ... they treated Strallan as if he smelled bad ... somehow Edith marrying him was not something they considered good news. I don't remember exactly the angle of the sharpest knife ... wasn't it Violet suggesting he was being selfish, that everyone would pity Edith, his future nursemaid? (which played wickedly into his previously acknowledged insecurities).

http://downtonabbey.wikia.com/wiki/Anthony_Strallan I always thought Robert's statement that Strallan was dull as paint was ironic since he (Robert) seems to be the dullest of men ... He silently reads the newspaper at breakfast each morning (while Cora dines in bed) ... but somehow couldn't managed to take sufficient interest in his investments to avoid near-catastrophe ... in fact, quite real financial ruin, rescued by Lavinia's father's fortune, iirc. Strallan actually served the government prior to WWI, served in battle in WWI ...and was injured with the loss of use of his arm ... Robert got to play dress-up and loan Downton Abbey (reluctantly) to the government as a hospital (more like a nursing home) for the better class of wounded soldiers (officers mostly) in need of rehab and adjustment ... There was mention also that Strallan was very embarrassed (depressed?) about his useless arm and had isolated himself (declining invitations) after his hospital/medical care and returning home ... isolation from which Edith rescues him. I saw the actor in a Midsomer Murder last night and he does have a rather delicate "donnish" look to him ... Strallan also is well-spoken and perhaps well-educated, interested in new ways in agriculture, of course Robert found him "dull" The character showed little enough "life force" -- much less ardor or sexual interest -- but he was in the beginning recently widowed (2 years earlier)... and in the end, altered and diminished by war wounds (which were never explained and were "curious" to me -- like Thomas' magic thumb and Matthew's magic paralysis)

The idea of Mary being "ambitious" beyond saving Downton (for herself, of course) is new to me ... and I don't see any evidence that that idea extended beyond the pre-production character sketches ... if so, she should have been more involved -- for instance -- in the hospital, where she might have made a mark on the various notables for her selfless service, as Sybil and Edith and even Cora did -- rising to the occasion, no matter how reluctantly or by what turn of events (Cora's "need" to thwart Isobel's dominance, etc.) We are suddenly shown that Mary is an accomplished equestrian -- years after we last saw her on horseback ... If she had been an avid and competitive rider, that would have made her more interesting and possibly "ambitious" in mingling with the horsey / hunting set... but I would have expected both Mary and Cora to have more often seen entertaining "worthies" -- currying connections. See also -- "going to London" for the theater, opera and all the various places that the ambitious would wish to be seen ... and the parading of one's wardrobe and conspicuous consumption, a la "Selfridge's" ... I've never known how Mary or Cora spend their days ... no evidence of reading or needlework, no friends outside of family/in-laws ... Ambition usually does require other people over which one can triumph to some degree and some realm of affairs into which efforts are put -- even if it's just raising award winning roses ... If Mary were ambitious, one might think she'd have taken an interest in Isobel's "good works" at some point ... as it is, she seems to believe she will eventually inherit Violet's place in the world/community without having to earn it by actual good -- be they ever so traditional and symbolic -- deeds

Interesting that Edith didn't assume that Gregson knew about her humiliation ... and/or that Gregson, in fact, did not know he had hired that Crawley woman who was so humiliatingly jilted a few years ago ... If Edith's very public jilting could be so quickly forgotten, what is the plausibility of the "Pamuk Scandal" rumors being still remembered ... more than a decade on ... having been replaced by the tragic death of Mary's first husband and father of heir.... what's his name ...

Unlike Mary who grieved numbly for her husband for a whole season, Edith picked herself up, dusted herself off and got on with her life ... although in retrospect there probably should have been more grieving -- possibly even anger and/or recriminations ... Fellowes didn't care enough to even wonder what Edith made of Strallan's betrayal and humiliation of her. I dont' recall Strallan ever being mentioned again, one way of the other, for that matter ... even though he apparently continues to live next door ... how very awkward ... and how strange ... (and how lazy).

I really wanted Edith to marry Strallan -- I adored the idea of Mary peeping out the window or from the roof, trying to get a glance of the goings on next door as Edith had dinner parties and guests and learned to be a hostess .. while Ms. Fancy Pants had little prospect of ever doing the same ... even when married to Matthew, Mary's autonomy was extremely limited after they got back from their honeymoon. Speaking of which, after the honeymoon, with the arrival at Downton of the "death car" -- I was really hoping that Mary and Matthew would have some adventures on their own... Given the "standards must be kept" presence of Cora and Violet, I doubt Mary has ever planned an original menu or requested a recipe ... because: change is to be avoided at all costs. IRL, I don't think there would have been any objection to Strallan -- not even awful children from his first marriage, as I recall -- He would have been considered a very very lucky man and she, pretty enough, good natured enough .. etc. There would be money enough for real nurses if the need arose ... and -- gasp -- she might well have had a baby or two before he croaked ... Utter bosh. Robert though Strallan dull because sometime he was forced to shut-up-and-listen ... (Robert has evolved since Season 3)

Strallen and Robert and Cora had been friends and neighbors for almost longer than Edith had been alive ... he bounced her on his knee in that capacity ... Their lack of enthusiasm and his own fears and self-esteem issues, being a wounded older war veteran, that Edith would be seen by others as "nurse" to this invalid old old man was just too much for Strallen to bear ... wasn't it Violet who tipped the balance ... I'm not sure she even said something... perhaps it was that she did not offer the polite reassurance that Strallen sought. Actually, I thought the whole matter with Strallan was very very odd ... never to be mentioned again (I am glad Dr. Clarkson was able to return fro his real-life events hiatus). Strallan's banishment was enough to make me wonder if the actor had offend Fellowes? Now he was an even lonelier lonely widower -- he had been a frequent guest, an extra man at the dinner table, etc. then poof ... I felt terrible for him -- still just over the hill or the hedge from the family he had known for decades and three daughter he had watched grow up, but personal non grata -- very odd. oh, just checked Downton Wiki -- yes, it was Violet that sent Strallan running

actually, my memory is that Robert got squicked at the idea of Strallen and his baby daughter getting married, doing the deed, having children all under his watchful eye ... Was this before or after Robert's dalliance with Jane? (season 2 E5-8) -- It was after, I think and IMDB would seem to bear this out. We last saw Strallen (whom we had met earlier) in S3 #1-3 (so after Jane's departure) ... Yes, I think it was ghost of Jane in Robert's sudden distaste for "robbing the cradle" ... I remember thinking it was hilarious that Robert would complain that Strallen was dull ... as if, he ... as if, Edith...

Much more than Mary, Edith had absorbed that life was fleeting ... Patrick, Lavinia, "all the boys" they used to dance with, fake-Patrick, even Matthew (poof - gone) even the prospect of marrying a war-wounded much older Strallen ... even Gregson's wife and lost-marriage .. It would have been nice if Fellowes gave a hat-tip to the emotional battle-fatigue WWI caused to the home front -- Testiment to Youth ... Edith didn't arrive at Gregson's flat with an overnight bag (or condoms) ... Her major intimacy at that point had been the farmer whose tractor she drove and whose wife she enraged ... Gregson was a gentleman ... I suspect she was taken by surprise (happily).

Gilded Age is back "in development" and he's written (it's shooting now) a 3-part miniseries of Trollope's Dr. Thorne ... yawn. I love Trollope ... he's done a lot of adaptations I've never seen except he did "Vanity Fair" which managed, as I recall, to lose a lot of the raised-eyebrow humor as it turned Becky into a less-complicated, more likeable, vaguely proto-feminist character ...when in fact she was a wonderfully wicked selfish social climber (in the mold of Scarlet O'Hara but much much more outrageous) ... In the pretty to look at -- but that's not really how the story goes -- mold of Knightley's P&P

odd -- that New York or was it Boston ? project isn't showing up on Fellowes' IMDB http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0271501/ Fellowes reminds me of Dominick Dunne -- except that Dunne, having labored in the Hollywood fields for years and years, never having enormous success -- had the good grace -- when he hit the motherlode late in life -- to be appropriately modest and grateful to have his later years suddenly and unexpectedly in the lap of luxury. Fellowes seems to have believed all those who gushed about his genius and then found himself either preoccupied with other projects and/or somehow paralyzed in the "sit down and storyboard" department. It was indulgent to let this show "waste" so much air time on stories (even seasons) that didn't go anywhere. oh well, what's done is done ... and he can laugh all the way to the bank (but that doesn't seem to be his personality)

and if Edith is married off to Bertie or someone-else (risen from the dead perhaps), Mary may recognize her very real jealousy ... It reminds me of the family dynamic in Despleschin's "A Christmas Tale" ... the older extraordinarily talented over-achieving daughter is still trying to fill the hole created in her early years by a younger sibling's terminal illness ... and hating, loathing and resenting her surviving younger brother for being loved (better) even though he's a royal screw-up and under-achiever (but a loving and caring absolute jerk with a drinking problem) ... Mary would never admit to being jealous of Edith, but we've seen Edith achieve some genuine happiness and love ... that she's earned .... without the looks, without or beyond the influence of title, estate or fortune ... she got the column based on her father's name but ... she grew it into a career ... she got Strallen as a Mary's leftovers and made lemonade (again remember the unloved by Mary Patrick) ... she survived the humiliation of being left at the altar ... she got pregnant and kept her child and got the family's forgiveness and acceptance anyway ... What was so "cute" about Emma was how clueless she was about her own jealousy of Jane Fairfax ... she projected so much on Jane as a rival ... when she never was one... Emma had no idea how transparent she was to everyone else.... even in her disrespect to Miss Bates ... she was desperately trying to impress what'shisname ... who was, afterall, already taken.

Yes, it is hilarious and also more than a little desperate ... gotta wonder exactly where in the storyline or even if Sybil would have had the baby in that case ... (I don't believe him but he loves the attention ... and damn will he miss it when its over) ... I remember the very first media blitz and, iirc, Elizabeth McGovern got into trouble for saying something less than gushing ... and it became all.too.apparent they had all been told where they stood with Sir Julian ... which at that point really was something not worth jeopardizing -- parts of a lifetime or at least a chance to revitalize careers for the over-30 crowd ... No matter how good the money ... the boredom each must be extreme at this point. I really expected Dockery to get some juicy scenery chewing scenes as a thank you for time served... She and Carson get rewarded by becoming loathsome in their final season ... jeez. Since then there have been ZERO complaints voiced publicly, even by Stevens (whose IMDB suggest a flurry of new projects in the works) ... Zero complaints except occasionally mention of taking a whole long day in costume and make-up filming and re-filming a 10 minute dinner scene ... My guess has been that the actors in many scenes are so "flat" is because they have to match re-takes for continuity ... a missing "hand on chin" in one version -- catastrophe, a missing smile or gleam in the eye ditto. Must be a laff-riot ... and the at-ease selfies don't prove anything, since I'd guess Fellowes and the production company is eager for all the Such a Happy Family of Actors publicity they can get ... they likely have right of approval wrt release of same.

Downton Abbey's Creator Wanted to Kill Off Two Characters in Matthew's Car Crash http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/11/downton-abbey-matthew-death-car-crash

And we have seen that she would never remotely agree that she is envious of anything associated with Edith or admit that she was dissatisfied with her prospects ... the unsuitability of Gillingham, Blake and Talbot is theirs alone -- not even due to Mary having (arguably) excessively high standards (no, IMHO, that's not the reason they failed). Mary is the princess who must be wooed and in whom it is the worthiness test of the suitor to light a spark. Very passive, Arthur pulling the sword from the rock ... Edith's "drab little life" is essential to Mary's belief in her own self-worth even superiority. Yes, it's possible Mary will next whine about how Edith's life is that of someone so easy to satisfy ... because she has such low expectations ... except Mary isn't "Emma" ... unfortunately, not that engaged or generous.

They're actors ... they need to be given something to do to be sexy ... there's only so much desire or affection that can be "telegraphed" without some sort of dialog or even just 'business' or expression ... and a response (which in Mary's case was not forthcoming) ... Look at Benedict Cumberbach ... an elfin, often slight figure with a great deep voice, not physically imposing, very young looking ... king of the world, catnip .. because he was allowed to ACT ... to deliver lines with pregnant pauses and significant expressions ... oh, and he was allowed to be smart, even brilliant, and observant, and aticulate, even teasing ... and the same is true for the adorable, very sexy and utterly ordinary looking Martin Freeman ... Goode was allowed to act in Dancing on the Edge and he acted up a storm in Death Comes to Pemberly (outshining the leads) ... Oh, and Ovendon is 5'10" according to IMDB, I think Tom Cullen must be 6'3" or 6'4" -- Hugh Bonneville on IMDB is 6'2" .. Dockery is 5'8" (but then she is likely taller ... heels). Goode has also been dressed badly for a romantic lead -- a bit of padding and style would have helped a great deal ... (going the other way, into casual or bohemian wouldn't work at all. )... (My personal taste would favor Ovendon for both looks and sassy ... ) eta: Bonneville must be so eager to drop 20 years and 30 pounds of padding when this series ends .. his photo over at IMDB is utterly cute, adorable. IRL, he's 10 years younger than me ... I'm utterly shocked

I agree -- I accepted that Mary -- beautiful with the trappings of wealth and title (if illusory) would have been a desirable "catch" within her circle ... even if IRL rapidly approaching her sell-by date given a shortage of men and a wealth of daughters coming of age and availability ... Because I was not in love with Mary, unlike some in the audience, I held no predisposition to dislike any of her suitors, in fact, the more I liked them, the less I wanted them saddled with Mary for the duration ... As I've said before, the audience didn't warm to the suitors because there was no chemistry, because Mary plainly was not "in love" -- dulling the enthusiasms as that might have been -- Gillingham was written as stalkerish, untrustworthy (and bad in bed and in his taste in servants) ... with additionally a suspected secret motive (at least Carlyle's agenda was plainly acknowledged) ... and Blake was a self-declared also-ran and neutered ...

This is why I compare Mary to Scarlett O'Hara ... just not nearly as entertaining ... Melanie was the saintly one ... To expand on the parallels, it would have been entertaining if Mary had "fallen hard" for some saintly but spineless man, like Ashley Wilkes ...

Don't get me started on the tendon damage that often results from "slit wrists" and his amazing accommodation to losing a thumb .... It was worse back then, you know, before microsurgery ...