SusanSunflower

Tom and Edith -- two "widowed" parents without partners would make a nice resolution -- if there had ever been a smidge of chemistry (or even intellectual meeting of minds) detected between them. I was thinking of Edith getting the Goode and Mary getting the estate agent and Tom being a sort of neutered uncle to the clan ... since Robert won't last forever and Cora will need a surrogate son (preferably not a son in law -- I recall no particular chemistry between Cora and Matthew, but she will need a shoulder to lean on in the not-so-distant future). I'm guessing Fellowes will feel compelled to kill off someone -- just to watch them die -- (I think it's been spoiled that someone dies) which may be used as wedge or opening for any number of characters to take stock and reevaluate "what really matters" (blerg) So frustrating to have Daisy and the Bates -- who have the means to leave Downton and get on with their lives -- still simpering in service. We also now know that Carson AND Hughes do not depend on the family for their old age security (how convenient). I think Patmore will end up on the farm with Daisy ... everyone else is young enough and snobby enough to simply find positions in service elsewhere -- factory work and living independently (without the "perks" provided by their position and fellow staff - rent, laundry, meals, healthcare, personal security) being "beneath them. I think the series truly "wants" a Thomas Kincaide ending rather than that of a more interesting but uncertain type given US/DS, i.e. new beginnings. I think we will leave the "snug in their beds"

After avoiding talking to Janet by sitting in his truck -- even though he she and Daniel were leaving on the road trip -- even though Daniel and Janet were "away" and Teddy had moved back in ... Ted (who had been staying with Teddy) chose to stay elsewhere -- unless we want to believe he was hiding out in the master bedroom while Teddy and Amantha and Jared were in the dining room, eating dinner and playing cards ... Ted also turned and walked away from Teddy after unloading his truth bomb about his mother ...and quite likely Janet ... Utterly ignoring Teddy saying that he had always thought it was his fault his mother had left .... Ted's still unwilling to come clean in the present or the past ... His wife is now estranged and his son is in deep pain ... seriously, gotta run... things to do, other people to see. No wonder his first wife left.

I'm not sure I'm correct ... I just felt like Ted hadn't really gotten over her giving them an ultimatum .... her "letting" Teddy stay there didn't make things all-okay ... The scene with Ted and Teddy in the kitchen was really intense ... Ted seems to me to be a terrible coward wrt to saying things that need to be said ... He consistently demonized Teddy's mother as if the breakup was all her fault ... and suddenly ... 20 years later, he admit to his son that he was seeing someone else, his mother's problems had long preexisted the breakup, he hadn't helped her as he might have, etc. etc. -- it was wrenching to see Teddy process his father unloading all this 'new information" when he had -- as he said -- lived in terror that Tawny would "just leave" like his mother had done ... Ted has seemed like a stand-up guy ... but his inability to converse with Janet and dropping this bombshell on Teddy make me see him in a new light.... and it's been clear that Teddy has never -- even as a child -- considered him a someone safe to talk to ... although that exact dynamic has not been spelled out ...

We actually saw George shoot himself in the first episode, I believe, but I know I didn't know (or care about) the character and forgot all about it. No, I think "not the same" was about Janet letting Teddy stay in the house now that Daniel's not going to be there ... I took Ted's "not the same" to mean that all was not "forgiven or forgotten" ... but then the absolute weirdness that Ted was staying at his son's, but Teddy never told him that Tawny was moving back into the house and he -- Teddy -- was moving out ... Note that Janet never ordered either of them out of the house ... she just said if they had problems with Daniel staying there, they could find somewhere else to stay for the time being -- what was it 2 days?? And Amantha had no idea that Tawny and Teddy were separated ... Am I correct to think she also knows nothing about Daniel's attack on Teddy (guessing no one was going to tell her unless it was about to become public / charges filed).

My online TV listing (Zap2IT http://tvschedule.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCGrid.do?aid=tvschedule)has it 70 minutes ...

and then Teddy followed up by accusing Tawny of not wanting the baby .... after she had miscarried ... which is a hair's breadth from suggesting that she miscarried "because" she didn't want the baby

I suspect Trey is so cocky because he may well know what really happened with Hanna -- and -- believes that he is absolutely beyond reach of Daggett ... I'm guessing that Trey knows that Chris, the doctor, senator's relative, is/was gulity as sin -- perhaps he killed Hanna to silence her after she accused him of rape -- and Trey has been using that knowledge and his assistance in framing Daniel as a get-out-of-jail-free card for the last 20+ years . Gotta wonder if he knows about the Senator's stroke.

Actually, I think it is a soap when read today without context ... much as Pride and Prejudice could be seen as a girl meets boy, girl loses boy, girl get boy back -- Wedding Bells!!!! and they live happily every after. See also Dickens. When Dickens was published it constituted social commentary and the plight of various characters advanced social movements. Lots of classics can be read "for pleasure" as fairly simple if "complicated by events/society" love stories ... but never mind.

I think it's perhaps the best mini-series "evah" ... the fault in the later parts are those of the story. I've not been able to find commentary on how the book (which won the Nobel prize) was greeted at the time ... was it a commentary on changes society was already undergoing or a rallying cry for (post-war) need for changes, loosening of roles, particularly those of women and an end of the socially required hypocrisy of married men and their mistresses. and a dearth of unhappy but life-long marriages ... Young Jolyen, despite his three wifes and two "scandalous" affairs, in the end is an honorable and loving man ... scented, I think deliberately, with a touch of the Bloomsbury ... See also the independent-but-fullfilled June who is not a classic "spinster," living with her mother, doing needle work -- even Irene's strength after leaving Soames, giving piano lessons, charitably repaying the goodness of the whores who saved her life ... etc. Is Gainsborough offering these strong individuals -- mostly women -- as role models of the future? The dynamics of the featured marriages demand scrutiny. While the working class were still "stuck" with divorce being damn near unthinkable (and too expensive) for a long time, does this very "fortunate" family emerging freedom and choices? I think the Nobels are "supposed" to capture society -- different societies and culture -- perhaps, in flux -- I'm not sure, however, I was surprised that such as "soap opera" was judged "Nobel worthy" -- thoughts?

I vaguely knew that Goode was in "Dancing on the Edge" but I had not realized that he is the (white) lead, the bandleader of the band of the story being played by Chiwetel Ejiofor ... as well as Joanna Vanderham (of The Paradise) and John Goodman and apparently a number of actors from Fellowes' Titanic (which I never saw) I've only seen 1 & most of 2 (internet too slow to show) and they have been succeeding in being interesting and fun history -- I'm not sure this is history, a composite or utter fiction -- and thought I'd recommend it for those looking for something to tide them over Sherlock too recently seen to be watched yet again ... I like to have forgotten enough that the actorly business is "new again" ... The netflix reviews (there aren't that many) vary a bit suggesting it may "go down hill" but at 6 episodes of an hour each on Netflix so far with nothing vividly violent or distressing ... unhappy reviews mostly annoyed that the white music magazine editor (Goode) and the other white rich folks take up so much screen time ... I'm happy clam so far. Stephen Poliakof really is a "genius" and some of his other shows may also be available on Netflix -- Perfect Strangers (2001) with Matthew MacFadyen (and a cast to die for) is quite excellent.

I think a lot of people are projecting "change" onto Teddy and, in fact, he's still his usual controlling and manipulative self ... He wants Tawny "home" where he can keep track of her ... he was trying very hard to "win" with the therapist but I noticed that what he would miss if he lost Tawny had only to do with her physical presence, his physical relationship ... not, say, the loss of their shared dreams or her faithful support of him or even "I've grown accustomed to your face" ... I'm not saying he's that shallow ... but I'm guessing that shallowness was not missed by the therapist ... I'd miss never kissing her, cuddling with her .... not her mac and cheese or her carefully prepared sack lunches.... their future children... He looked utterly stricken with Janet's condolences in the kitchen ... since he was concerned that his father "might" know ... I wondered what he made of her effusive sympathy ... regardless Janet did basically tell him to "man up" (which he needed badly, imho) and deal with the fact that her other son, Daniel, needed a place to stay and he would stay away for the time being if he couldn't deal with it. It was nice to see any character, in this case Janet, being assertive with both Ted and Teddy without being angry ... or in anyway unpleasant .... It was good to see Janet being maternal with Jared ... somehow Ted seems "too old" and too remote to be Jared's father / paternal figure (as he may well have been for Teddy when he was much younger - not age, personality). Janet's so warm and observant ... when she gets a chance. I was glad to see Jared getting some attention -- full stop.

Given Teddy's expression -- tonight on the evening of the NEXT episode -- I was wondering exactly what Ted told Janet about what Daniel did to Teddy that she felt so heartbroken and pitying over it. iykwim.

Could Daniel be "commanded" to stay in the area if he's needed as a "material witness" wrt George's death / Trey's possible upcoming trial ... There's no way that I see that Trey can prove that George killed-his-own-self, particularly if Trey can be demonstrated to have (or have had) possession of the George's gun, i.e. the murder weapon... even more complicated, I don't think that Daniel knows that Trey knows what "really happened" to George. I realized in the last days that the "plot necessity" of the Senator's stroke is to sideline him sufficiently that he is not around to impede the investigation or -- more likely -- kill it entirely.

Yes, the scene the P.O. reminded me of trying to explain to my younger brother that his boss was not being unreasonable in refusing to give him the weekend off on short notice ... that in fact, it was not a matter of the boss' whim, but a matter of finding someone else to cover for his (repeated) absences, tardies and no-shows ... like the last job he had lost ... Prison, on the other hand, is fairly arbitrary and the guards/administrators have a lot of leeway and damned little oversight in wielding the considerable power hold over your life and well-being... part of why reports of ridiculous abuse of that power are all too commonplace ... arranged "fights" with wagers,the power of prison gangs, and the sort of preferential treatment and abuse of power that is being revealed in the NY prison escape details. Daniel never really had to deal with all sort of "housekeeping (paying bills on time) much less "multi-tasking" while he was in prison. He didn't even have to deal with other prisoners except as an exception (the shower rape), usually bad.

Agree Auntie Pam, and I also thought of the unfinished kitchen and perhaps a reluctance to complete anything, because then it will be "over" -- used up -- all done -- finished -- past tense and there will be hole where the "possibility" once was ... finishing anything is a problem for a lot of people ... living with the imperfections and/or the story about how you would do it next time, if you had it all to do over again ... etc.

Yes, there's real irony in that Soames and his Winifed sister both married "for love" quite badly indeed ... as if that were a luxury that the hard work of the prior generation(s) had made possible for them ... one that Soame's second wife had no illusions about, having come from less than "genteel circumstrances." Irene's life story of the other hand demonstrates the folly of marrying of "necessity" (even with an escape clause) underestimating the determination of unloved spouse/lover. I always wondered just how much idle gossip and a "amusement" Soames had to endure wrt his inability to keep a wife -- first Irene and then Annette (so flagrant in her appreciation of another man's attentions).

What I found so interesting about Teddy's response to Daniel's attack was his passivity ... how about getting angry, even outraged? Why NOT confront Daniel? (or for that mattter, contact the police and file a complaint, request a restraining order ... etc.) Why keep this secret from your wife? Yes, Daniel blindsided Teddy and knocked him out and left him unconscious on the floor of the tire shop with his pants pulled down and his backside festooned with coffee grounds/ground coffee ... to wake up some time later "dirtied" .... (Daniel could not -- imho -- know that Teddy would wake up before his dad arrived at the beginning of the next business day, or before a worried Tawny came looking for him ...) in fact -- again in the "who knows what" alternate reality challenge -- we don't know what Daniel thinks happened after he left Teddy, or if he has noticed that Teddy apparently had kept the incident an unmentionable secret ...

In some ways, demonstrating middle-American reticence and denial, Daniel has been left at loose ends to figure things out. Most everyone has gotten back to something resembling normal lives without having had many "serious conversations" about the future or the past -- all so very painful and/or uncertain, so we'll just pretend it never happened ... oh, and fish and guests spoil after -- what was it? -- 3 days. Daniel's befuddlement wrt his own guilt and accepting the guilty plea does take the shine off of Amantha's Joan of Arc crusading. It feels to me as if they are all either hoping or assuming Daniel will ask for and accept help -- and/or --someone else is "being there" for Daniel, when in fact he seems to be rattling around, rather purposelessly. He's not in need of a vacation, what he needs is a reason and a milieu in which he can engage in a routine consistent fashion, yeah, like a job, nothing too strenuous, but structured, more like Amantha at Thrifty Town (in contrast to some "lost opportunity" to hang out at the tire store waiting for someone to show up needing tires). I agree, I'm really at a loss how the tire store supports Ted/Janet and Teddy/Tawny much less whomever actually works in the back getting dirty changing out and balancing tires ... Does Teddy have an in the trenches/DIY side I'm not seeing ... he seems mostly concerned with optics. Whatever became of the dead-beat first-and-only tire-rim-rental guy? We saw that Teddy had little hesitance to engage competently in that fistfight.

It probably "would have been better" if Daniel had gotten righteously pissed off when Teddy first asked if he had been raped in prison -- maybe thrown a punch -- and it "might have been better" if Daniel had simply picked Teddy up by the shoulders and given him a hearty shake -- maybe thrown a punch or two -- but that's not what happened ... It also "would have been better" if post-attack Teddy had confronted Daniel (Teddy seems to be a massive confrontation avoider) and/or -- at this point -- if Ted Senior had demanded they sit down and "talk it out" .. Teddy's shame is that he cannot confront situations ... he wants to "joke" about prison rape and suggest Daniel "lay back and enjoyed it" ... deliberately provocative statements that generally might have "earned" him a punch or two. I just remembered that Tawny said that Teddy had wanted to start fresh in a new town ... but just ...mumble mumble ... couldn't make it "away" from his home turf ... I don't think what happened to Teddy was comparable to rape -- he was trying to get the coffee out of his jockey shorts before putting them in the laundry (much later in the day) ... if he'd had an "accident' he probably would have dumped those jockey's in in the nearest trashbin and headed to wherever local carried jockey shorts ... Daniel did not injury Teddy ... and that was also part of his message, "I could have" ... This show's weird sense of time means that I don't know how much time has elapsed since "drip drip drip" season 1 (episode 5 of 6) and then since the Daniel's beatdown (season 1 episode 6) ... which followed almost immediately ... (do we "know" that Teddy was somewhere else when that happened?) So then Daniel was in the coma and Daniel was then negotiating and pleading guilty to the plea bargain ... and so now, at this point ... season 3 episode 3, Teddy thinks his dad "might know" about Daniel's assault .... even though we've known that Ted "knows" what ever Daggett decided to tell him of whatever Teddy told him, and Janet and Amantha know nothing. We don't know what Daniel exactly told Tawny or Tawny told Teddy ...

and a "normal" husband -- capable of seeing anthing beside his own issues -- might take soime comfort in thinking that his estranged wife was unhappy or uncertain enough that she felt she needed to see a therapist ... yanno?? It would have a been a good moment to offer some support I'm freaked that Teddy has never confronted Daniel about what he did** ... and that Janet STILL doesn't know ... nor apparently does Amantha ... this would have a been a good thing for Ted Senior to handle / referee since his (very own) marriage will be deeply rocked if his Teddy is responsible for Daniel going (back to) prison for 20 years, yanno? (I know that Daniel said he was going to tell Janet, but he didn't ... and I think that was before his latest confab with Daggett -- in which he may have only just realized that his freedom is really-truly in jeopardy ... If it can be proved that Trey (or someone else) killed/raped Hanna is Daniel's conviction "vacated" despite his confession? My vague recollection is that a petition for exoneration/pardon is required ... not automatic. ** and appears to have misinterpreted what/why Daniel did what he did -- he thinks Daniel meant to humiliate him ... when in fact. I think Daniel meant to teach him a lesson about how sometimes you don't have an option to "fight back" or resist -- So Teddy thinks it was much more "hostile" than I think it was.

and that menace (or is it cluelessness) adds it's own paranoid overlay of wondering "is he doing this on purpose or is he really that utterly clueless/self-absorbed?" I was dying for Tawny in that scene ... he wasn't supposed to be there and then he's blocking her exit (she just came to pick up some things) and he's telling her he would never hurt her (and getting her to "admit" he never has) -- I hope some bells are going off for some male viewers who -- on the face of it -- may well see nothing obviously menacing ... oh yeah, "I just needed to see you up close" ... Tawny really looked like she wasn't even considering coming back ... but she's been so very well trained to stay passive and bland/unreadable ... yes, all-her-fault that she saw the therapist and now Teddy can't countenance the idea ... or something ... because she TOLD someone something about him... One of my adult-discoveries about my parents divorce was that they each claimed the other rejected all possible family counselors ... both claiming they "wanted" to try to save the marriage but the other made it impossible ... I remain very very curious about Teddy's mother's departure.

thank you!! so Trey knows (as much as anyone can know) without a doubt that George committed suicide ... perhaps with a little existential nudge from himself ... yes, he wants a Trey vs. Daniel showdown believing he can win ... but the sheriff is beginning to recognize that Daniel may well be being set up NOW to be the fall guy AGAIN, y'know like he may have been set up -- by the same folks -- THEN. I wonder just what Daniel now understands about Trey ...

I'm so confused about what we have seen in flash-backs or at great distance involving characters (like George and Trey) whose separate identities I've never quite been able to keep straight ... so Trey was the person who dumped George's body in the stream way back in, what?, season 1 ... sometimes the extremely slow pace of the episdde up against the real time roll out of the series baffles me. Wasn't there a dead body (the same or other?) in the stream even before Daniel was released or did that occur after Daniel's beat-down (which seems like it was months ago but I think was "last month" within the show's universe). Where is Hanna's brother now?

My memory is that advanced cirrhosis and renal failure both can give off specific smells (different smells, not necessarily strong, but harsh/acrid) -- and fwiw, so can some cancers -- but usually only noticeable up close and personal or in a confined space or in someone who doesn't bathe or change clothes often ... so can diabetic ketoacidosis (classicaly a fruity breath)

I've been worrying that Jon is going off to Boston and no one has told him that Teddy may (or may not) bring charges against him for the assault ... because ... I think Amantha knows nothing (and doesn't know why in god's name Daniel is living with her now when she's trying to start-a-new-life and distance herself somewhat) ... Janet, I think knows that Daniel "attacked" Teddy, but not what was involved in the attack or why it took place ... oh why Teddy didn't fight back ... which was the point that Daniel, I think was trying to make ...